Unable to get over him, having trouble staying strong

[peace_seeker]

Hi all,

I’ve been posting quite a bit on this forum, and many of you might have already read my story and helped me through my healing. I thought I was progressing well, even thought that I was out of FOG, but I realize it was all but a delusion and I feel like I’m back at square one. Pls allow me to share more.

Quick recap:

exBPD broke up with me over conflicts with my brother 3 months ago. He wants me to break tie with my brother, which is something that I couldn’t put myself through. Our last contact was on the 31st Dec 2014, hence we have been on NC for 3 weeks now. On the week of the 31st Dec 14 that we last contacted, I was away on a holiday trip to freshen myself up from this BU. Hence in early Jan when I’m back home, I was still feeling good and refreshed. That time, I thought that I was out of FOG, and I thought I had moved on quite a bit. But now, when the excitement of the holiday has worn off, I find myself back at square one, missing him terribly and even having anxiety attacks again. I realize my previous ‘progress’ was nothing but simply being distracted, and now that I’ve got nothing to distract me, I am actually not doing that well. This has been the longest continuous NC that we’ve had since our BU; in the earlier 2 months there were quite a far bit of contact to settle some outstanding items. So perhaps reality has also FINALLY hit me, that he’s really gone and out of my life. Furthermore, I kinda saw hints of him flirting with other girls on FB just yesterday night. And that also made me realize how SINGLE he is now. My friends told me that he did nothing wrong, he’s a free man now. And I know that my friend is right, but that’s exactly what’s hurting – not particularly about him flirting, but about him not being emotionally attached / responsible to me anymore.

I know what I’m going through is perhaps just what most people go through during a breakup, with a BPDex  or nonBPDex. It’s just part of the griefing and accepting process. But I cannot understand why I’m so blinded by him, and still so in love with him. In his last correspondence to me, he told me that he hates me for destroying his life, he told me he’ll remember me as the most selfish partner he ever has. But still, I replied him and told him that I love him, and I’m sorry for everything, and it was nv my intention to want to end things. I asked if there is no turning back? And he said yup, because I’ve chosen my brother over him. But still I send him another text telling him again that I really love him and I will wait for him, and told him to take care of himself and nothing hurts me more than seeing him sad. But he stopped replying.

When he stopped replying me, part of me was glad because I was also afraid that if he will reply me with a request to give my bro up for him again and I really don’t want to go through the rejecting him process all over again. And naturally the other part of me went into addict-withdrawal when he stopped replying me – the first few days it was just tough getting him out of my mind but subsequently it was manageable. But there is also this closet part of me that is in denial – I treat his silence as a form of silence treatment, which also means I am still imagining that he’s doing this intentionally to hurt me, hence giving myself the idea that he’s still somehow entangled in this mess. But seeing how he has flirted on FB last night just put things into perspective – he’s really no longer emotionally attached to me anymore. He’s gone with the wind, he has now chosen to show concern to other girls, rather than me. I don’t know how to put how I am feeling into words but it still puzzles me how can someone who have loved me for 8 years just be gone like that?

My ex is a very, very angry and vengeful man. He came from a broken family; his dad cheated on his mom and psychically abused her and eventually abandoned them. Perhaps that’s why he is the way he is now. When he hates, he REALLY hates. He even refuses to acknowledge one of his mom’s brother simply because he feels that that guy used to look down on them. Even when his whole family asked him to forgive the uncle, he refused to.  And it hurts to think that I’ve fallen into that same category. I’ve also been told by common friends that they have been unfriended by him on FB after they posted a photo with me in it. He simply does not want to be reminded of me. The hatred is real. And I’m still struggling to accept this fact.


From this breakup I also learnt a lot about myself. I’ve definitely learnt abt my codependency issue, and on hindsight I know that was due to how I was raised as kid. And somehow that made me rather resentful towards my family. And I’ve grown very distant from them even since this BU. Somehow I blame them for the breakup, even though I know they are not to be blamed. But I just can’t bring myself to face them. It is a very complex feeling. And just today, I had a major quarrel with my mom over this because she felt that I’m not over the breakup fast enough. Of course she wont understand the extent of the hurt and damage our exBPD have brought to our life, so I shouldn’t blame her, but it just disappoints me very much that she just can’t trust me enough to let me manage my own healing progress. (Btw, I’m a 27yo grown up now) My mom hates him so much so that she calls him names and blames him for my attitude towards them. And this is the really sad part that I need to confess – I know my mom is right. But I feel that my loyalty is still towards him. And even though I know that by distancing from my family will not get my ex back, but somehow I just feel that I need to punish myself/family for the breakup. Because it is me, and my family, that kinda caused my 8yrs relationship to end. And how can I still be happily having a loving relationship with them now?

Why am I still so emotionally attached and blinded by him? I thought that after having seen some light, I would never be back at this pathetic blinded stage. But I still am. Why do I still feel so much love for someone who destroyed my life so much?

This week has been especially tough. So much memories of him are flooding back to my mind. I often asked myself, “where am I supposed to keep these memories now?” Now that he’s gone, who am I supposed to share these times with anymore? This gives me anxiety attack, it invalidates all my time with him, it really feels like part of me has disappeared as well. I know only I can help myself, I need to be strong, I need to take charge of this situation and take positive actions to work towards forgetting him. No matter how many times I mention here that I love him will not make him love me back. No matter how much I miss him will not make him miss me back. No matter how I continue to punish myself and my family will not make him come back too. I know. But now, right now, I really don’t want to let go. I just feel like wallowing in this sadness and dream about having him back.

I want to move on, I want to be happy. Yet I can’t let go, don’t want to let go. I don’t know if part of me will ever stop hoping for him to come back, even though I know he wont. And I’m just really, really tired of being strong anymore.

[Glutton4punishment]

I'm reading a book called "Attachment - the new science of adult attachment" by Levine and Heller. I downloaded the audiobook via ITunes for $4.95 and it was worth every penny. I've already decided when I get to the end I'm starting over again. You sound (like me) like you have an anxious attachment style. We confused the activation of our attachment cycle with love. Buy it and listen to it over and over and over. You will be amazed. I'm sorry you're hurting. Breathe deep. Love yourself again, more than you love him. Good luck.

[Ridingthewaves]

Feeling exactly the same and went NC on Dec 30th... .maybe it takes couple weeks for reality to sink in... .try not to look at profiles... .thats self-torture for you ... .sending love and comfort.

[Tibbles]

Sometimes I ask myself the same questions - why am I so tied to this man? I'm still trying to figure it out. I guess it goes back to my co-dependency issues and how well we meshed at the start. We will never get back together but part of me wishes for it and hopes he will contact. We had so many recycles that this sometimes feels just like another one but it is not. The power of intermittent reinforcement.

As for wallowing in the sadness - I let myself do that when I need to. Let myself feel the sadness and the pain. No one can be strong all the time - give yourself time and permission to loose it every now and then. Tears help heal as well.  I read somewhere that to pass through the stages of grief you need to feel them and experience them. To deny yourself that can hinder your progress. Don't know if that's true or not but it struck a cord for me.

I'm going to look at the book Glutton4punishment wrote about. Might be worth a look.

Hang in there x x x x

[peace_seeker]

I'm reading a book called "Attachment - the new science of adult attachment" by Levine and Heller. I downloaded the audiobook via ITunes for $4.95 and it was worth every penny. I've already decided when I get to the end I'm starting over again. You sound (like me) like you have an anxious attachment style. We confused the activation of our attachment cycle with love. Buy it and listen to it over and over and over. You will be amazed. I'm sorry you're hurting. Breathe deep. Love yourself again, more than you love him. Good luck.

Thanks Glutton4punishment, thanks for the recommendation! I've check it out but unfortunately this audio version is not available in my region. argggh... . seems like i'll need to get the paperback copy, which is fine except that i'll need to wait awhile before i can get my hands on it. I've also purchased quite a few other books recommended by others and it always helps to read up more. Anyway thanks again!

[peace_seeker]

Feeling exactly the same and went NC on Dec 30th... .maybe it takes couple weeks for reality to sink in... .try not to look at profiles... .thats self-torture for you ... .sending love and comfort.

Thanks Ridingthewaves. Actually he has already blocked me on all social media. But we have too many common friends (we knew each other in college) and it is still unavoidable that I’ll see some friends replying to his name in comments and stuff like that. It is torture indeed, I’m really trying to stay away, even though sometimes I still can’t resist peeking at his profile pic. Ever since we broke up he has not put up his own pics as his profile pic. Instead, he has been putting sceneries as his profile pic. Sceneries of national parks that we’ve visited together and huge fans of. I know it’s sick of me to hold on to that, but somehow it comforts me… perhaps at least to me it’s an indication that he’s still the him I know… but I know one day it’s gonna change and that day I’ll come crushing down. It’s really a head vs heart decision to peek, or not to peek.

[peace_seeker]

We will never get back together but part of me wishes for it and hopes he will contact. We had so many recycles that this sometimes feels just like another one but it is not. The power of intermittent reinforcement.

Thanks Tibbles, this is exact confusion that I am in right now. Part of me hopes and still fantasize about a future with him, yet part of me knows him well enough to know that he will never let his pride down and come back to me, someone who chose ‘other’ (my family) over him IHO. Besides, part of me also knows that even if he comes back, against all odds, things will never be the same again.  How are we going to reconcile the pain and hurt that we’ve put each other through this time round, and trust each other to not leave again? Furthermore, my friends have grown so disgusted with his abusive language post BU contact that none of them wishes to see us back tgt. And if he does come back, choosing him would equate to letting friends who have been so supportive all these while down. And if things are to NOT work out again, then I would really have no more friends to turn to, and that thought scares me.

Rationally I know there’s no turning back. But I’m still unable to detach emotionally. And the fact that there was pervious recycle made it even harder to detach… it’s the same old story: I know he’s no good but I want him back. You are probably right about the co-dependency too. For me it’s probably wanting to get validated for all the emotions and sacrifices that I’ve put in, and I still struggling with getting over the idealization and those times when he put me on the pedestal. I’ve been told repeated to be more gentle and compassionate towards myself. Afterall it’s only 3 months post BU, and 3 weeks of NC. But sometimes it’s just overwhelming, frustrating, and I just feels so trapped.

I hope you’ll manage to get a copy of the book and I hope you’ll be able to find some comfort and answers from there as well. 

[CloseToFreedom]

If it's any comfort for you, I have the same thing. My ex and I have been seperated for almost 2 months now. First week I was fine, felt free. Then came the depression. I've been trying to get out of it since then, and earlier this week I was often angry, which is better than being sad / depressed, but I'm back to that state now.

My ex gf has a replacement since last weekend, so that somewhat helps to destroy any last hope I had left. But still, I somewhere hope that she sees the light eventually and try to come back. If I'd take her back, that's another question entirely that I cannot answer right now. I don't think it would be smart, as we'd inevetibly split up again and then I have to go through the grieving all over again.

But I know exactly how you feel. Ruminating on the good times, the time and energy and money we've put into this relationship, the love we felt. It's difficult letting all that go. I still wake up each morning missing her, I still dream almost every night about her, it's still difficult for me to concentrate at work, I still fall asleep each night thinking about her.

My ex seems to be happy now, but I don't think she really is. She was extremely hateful to me, and the difference between love and hate isn't that big. Now, she might start to grow indifferent to me, which is the real killer. The connection that was so intense for four years, is starting to fade. Scary, but also for the better.

[peace_seeker]

My ex gf has a replacement since last weekend, so that somewhat helps to destroy any last hope I had left. But still, I somewhere hope that she sees the light eventually and try to come back. If I'd take her back, that's another question entirely that I cannot answer right now. I don't think it would be smart, as we'd inevetibly split up again and then I have to go through the grieving all over again.

But I know exactly how you feel. Ruminating on the good times, the time and energy and money we've put into this relationship, the love we felt. It's difficult letting all that go. I still wake up each morning missing her, I still dream almost every night about her, it's still difficult for me to concentrate at work, I still fall asleep each night thinking about her.

Hi CTF, I completely feel you wrt to hoping that she'll see the light eventually comes back. I hope for that too. But I know it is a dangerous hope to have because this will keep us from moving on even when they have already moved on and probably really found someone more suitable.

A story to share: i met up with a girl fren recently and this fren of mine has always disapproves of my ex cos of his abusive language and anger issues. And to my surprise, she finally confided in how her current bf is starting to treat her badly now, manipulating her and started to put all blames on her, and even comparing her and saying that she's worse than his ex. She's aware that this isn't the right way to go in a r/s, but still, she decided to stays on in the r/s. Which was mind blowing to me. Because she has always disapprove of how my ex treated me, and now she's accepting the same treatment for herself? Somehow it made me really sad, because i've always held on to the hope that my ex wont be able to find any other who's willing to put up with him as much as I did... but my fren just burst that hope. I talked about this to my counsellor, and she told me that that's the reality of the world. there are many people with issues out there, and there are many who are willing to put themselves through a relationship even when they know that someone may not be treating him/her right, because he/she is still getting something they need out of the (dysfunctional) relationship. And it's just a matter of how they flow. And it broke my heart and shatter hopes of him never ever being to find someone "better" than me. because it's possible. and anyway, in his opinion, I am already not that great anyway now... .so why couldn't he find someone better?

My point to you CTF is, although it really is hard to swallow after us having put in so much, but there's a good chance that they wont look back. and we gotta be prepared for it.

Like you, I still wake up every morning missing him. It is such a terrible feeling. I've been with my ex for 8 years, we were engaged, have our engagement photos taken, and wedding was suppose to be in June in this year, on my birthday. And I definitely agree it is really damn fkkking scary how things can change, connections be cut, and feelings faded, just like that. I think we are probably at the same stage of healing, and I'm really sorry to know that you are struggling too. Keep strong CTF, I'm glad we hv each other and so many others here who are going through the same thing and helping each other to tide through this.

[CloseToFreedom]

Thank you for your uplifting words. Yes, we are in this together, all of us on this forum. Its good to remember that every once in a while. Just like I need to remember that my parents support me with all their power and that I'm still loved by them.

It's just such a gigantic hole they leave you with. And I take part of the blame for sure, i just couldn't handle being with her each day anymore, it was draining me. If I could have handled it, we would probably still be together.

Or maybe not. Maybe she likes the honeymoon phase more than the 'normal' phase. Maybe thats why she gets so easily irritated, basically sabotaging the relationship. And maybe that is why she's with someone else already, enjoying the honeymoon phase. But what happens if that is done? Will she run for the hills again?

I just can't get her out of my head, it truly is an obsession. I keep hoping for something, anything, I want to hear from her. After all that I've been through thanks to her, she still feels like my soulmate, my buddy. And I miss my soulmate. But I have to face the facts, she probably never was that. It was all mirroring and after that, it was me trying to hold on to that feeling of the beginning of our relationship. I've tried so hard to give us a happy life, a nice house, with dinners and holidays and pets. It was never enough. I should've known.

[peace_seeker]

Thank you for your uplifting words. Yes, we are in this together, all of us on this forum. Its good to remember that every once in a while. Just like I need to remember that my parents support me with all their power and that I'm still loved by them.

It's just such a gigantic hole they leave you with. And I take part of the blame for sure, i just couldn't handle being with her each day anymore, it was draining me. If I could have handled it, we would probably still be together.

Or maybe not. Maybe she likes the honeymoon phase more than the 'normal' phase. Maybe thats why she gets so easily irritated, basically sabotaging the relationship. And maybe that is why she's with someone else already, enjoying the honeymoon phase. But what happens if that is done? Will she run for the hills again?

I just can't get her out of my head, it truly is an obsession. I keep hoping for something, anything, I want to hear from her. After all that I've been through thanks to her, she still feels like my soulmate, my buddy. And I miss my soulmate. But I have to face the facts, she probably never was that. It was all mirroring and after that, it was me trying to hold on to that feeling of the beginning of our relationship. I've tried so hard to give us a happy life, a nice house, with dinners and holidays and pets. It was never enough. I should've known.

Hi ClosedToFreedom, I really feel your pain. You sounds like you know that she is not good for you, but yet you cant stop obsessing about her. It is the same for me, and I know how crazy that feels. I miss my ex so much that I really want to drop everything and run back to him, but the question that I have for myself is, will he still loves me back the same way as before? We both know that being back tgt with our ex will only put as at the risk of being discarded again. And the risk will be higher than the last round because they already have resentment towards us. If they can dump us once, why not a 2nd, 3th, or nth times? But yet we cant’ stop hoping, we cant stop obsessing…

I’ll recommend that you take a look at these articles... It helps me understand that my obsession with my ex is just a how things are when we are dealing w a NPD/unhealthy person and why we find it so hard to shake this obsession off.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=751960141555623&id=114835348601442&substory_index=0

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=757867737631530&id=114835348601442&substory_index=0

www.thenarcissisticpersonality.com/trauma-bonding/

Even though these articles are written wrt to partners of NPD, I believe the theory behind still applies to victims of pwBPD (since most BPD are narcissistic).

Take care CloseToFreedom, must strong!

[jhkbuzz]

... .part of me also knows that even if he comes back, against all odds, things will never be the same again.  How are we going to reconcile the pain and hurt that we’ve put each other through this time round, and trust each other to not leave again?... .Rationally I know there’s no turning back. But I’m still unable to detach emotionally... .

This is an epic battle between your heart and your head... .I know it well, and it's the most intense pain I think I've ever felt in my life.  I really, really feel for you.

Keep reading, keep posting, and hold on - time will begin to heal you, even though it doesn't feel that way right now.  Are you seeing a T?

I am heading toward 6 months post b/u and 4 months n/c and I am feeling much, much better.  It's a sloow healing, but it's definitely happening.  I wouldn't have imagined that I would EVER heal just a few months ago... .when I was at the point where you are now (3 months post b/u).  Hang in there... .

[peace_seeker]

This is an epic battle between your heart and your head... .I know it well, and it's the most intense pain I think I've ever felt in my life.  I really, really feel for you.

Keep reading, keep posting, and hold on - time will begin to heal you, even though it doesn't feel that way right now.  Are you seeing a T?

I am heading toward 6 months post b/u and 4 months n/c and I am feeling much, much better.  It's a sloow healing, but it's definitely happening.  I wouldn't have imagined that I would EVER heal just a few months ago... .when I was at the point where you are now (3 months post b/u).  Hang in there... .

Thanks jhkbuzz. I am seeing a counsellor, is that considered the same as a Therapist? She doesn't really treat, she just lends a listening ear and asked some questions for me to probe deeper into myself. I do feel better after every session with her, but I do nt know if I’m feeling better because I get to relive the memories of my ex, or is it just that I find more peace within myself…

The ultimate battle between the head and the heart is really tearing me apart. Earlier last week when I thought that I was ok, I could really put this r/s aside and focus on myself. It was easy to convince myself that this r/s is over, he is no longer a part of me anymore, and relationship is just a small part of human life and it was easy to accept the idea that relationships do fall apart and people do breakup/divorce. But now, I just can’t seem to wants to accept that this is over, even though I know that I have no other choice. I am tired of ruminating, but yet I’m afraid of losing him forever if I don’t even hold on these thoughts. My head is tired and my heart is aching… I just wish that someone will take my hand and lead me out of this darkness.

Thank u for your kind words jhkbuzz. At least I know I’m not alone in this, and hopefully I’ll be able to be like you, feeling much much better few months down the road. 

[jhkbuzz]

This is an epic battle between your heart and your head... .I know it well, and it's the most intense pain I think I've ever felt in my life.  I really, really feel for you.

Keep reading, keep posting, and hold on - time will begin to heal you, even though it doesn't feel that way right now.  Are you seeing a T?

I am heading toward 6 months post b/u and 4 months n/c and I am feeling much, much better.  It's a sloow healing, but it's definitely happening.  I wouldn't have imagined that I would EVER heal just a few months ago... .when I was at the point where you are now (3 months post b/u).  Hang in there... .

Thanks jhkbuzz. I am seeing a counsellor, is that considered the same as a Therapist? She doesn't really treat, she just lends a listening ear and asked some questions for me to probe deeper into myself. I do feel better after every session with her, but I do nt know if I’m feeling better because I get to relive the memories of my ex, or is it just that I find more peace within myself…

The ultimate battle between the head and the heart is really tearing me apart. Earlier last week when I thought that I was ok, I could really put this r/s aside and focus on myself. It was easy to convince myself that this r/s is over, he is no longer a part of me anymore, and relationship is just a small part of human life and it was easy to accept the idea that relationships do fall apart and people do breakup/divorce. But now, I just can’t seem to wants to accept that this is over, even though I know that I have no other choice. I am tired of ruminating, but yet I’m afraid of losing him forever if I don’t even hold on these thoughts. My head is tired and my heart is aching… I just wish that someone will take my hand and lead me out of this darkness.

Thank u for your kind words jhkbuzz. At least I know I’m not alone in this, and hopefully I’ll be able to be like you, feeling much much better few months down the road. 

This is a very, very normal part of the healing process, although it certainly does throw us for a loop!  I experienced days of feeling like I was moving forward, healing, getting my thoughts together... .only to descend into days of inconsolable grief and crying.  And I was always like, What the heck?  I thought I was doing better!

Time will help... .it will.  And seeing a counselor will also help you process your thoughts and grief.

[peace_seeker]

This is a very, very normal part of the healing process, although it certainly does throw us for a loop!  I experienced days of feeling like I was moving forward, healing, getting my thoughts together... .only to descend into days of inconsolable grief and crying.  And I was always like, What the heck?  I thought I was doing better!

Time will help... .it will.  And seeing a counselor will also help you process your thoughts and grief.

Thank you so much jhkbuzz for the reassurance. I have no idea why it is so tough to get over someone who abuses us. I'm really sick and tired of feeling so trapped & lonely. But ur encouragement definitely helps to put some light at the end of the tunnel, so thank u, n I'll keep strong and hang in there.

[eeks]

I had a brief but intense (!) relationship with a man who most likely has BPD.  He had a psychiatrist tell him he has "borderline traits" and I thought to myself, oh, I don't really know what BPD is, the name sounds so... .benign?  

This relationship ended 3 months ago.  I am JUST starting to get over him.  Finally realizing that what he did was controlling and abusive - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm and www.sott.net/article/149774-Romeos-Bleeding-When-Mr-Right-Turns-Out-To-Be-Mr-Wrong (the description of BPD, he didn't really do the NPD people-as-objects thing) - this is him.

I am thinking how weird and unusual this is, why am I still hanging on to this guy after this long, normally after a brief relationship I am over him in a week... .well when I understand more about the BPD dynamic, I now see why this happened.  Among other things, being repeatedly accused of selfish motives caused me to doubt myself and my own motives, and although I recognized that as "not my usual self", that is why it took me longer to heal.

I was in a rough place personally at the time of our breakup and so I... .wanted to stay friends. I think I just couldn't let go of him, because it seemed we had such a "connection" (which of course, I now know is the idealization phase).  

It was OK for him to tell me he had sex with another woman (I didn't react, we weren't together anymore after all), but he freeeeaked ouuuut if I so much as mentioned starting a conversation with a male stranger.  

You see, in my case I actually did do something that led him to dump me that a healthy person would have had the right to be hurt and angry about.  The difference is, after I apologized, expressed that I genuinely understood my actions, not for the purpose of excusing them but understanding myself so that I could change in future... .he kept going.  And going... .his resentment over this, he couldn't contain it to that topic, it kept seeping over into other unrelated interactions.  And my conscience was genuinely activated, at first, but when he kept heaping on the guilt, my empathy wore out and I started sticking to the facts.  He just... .found any reason to ignore the facts, or not to answer legitimate questions where I was reasonably entitled to an answer, focusing on some minor unimportant detail that was wrong as an excuse to throw out my whole point that I was trying to make, distraction, telling me he was tired or under stress... .

He would act like he doesn't want to speak to me again, because I'm causing him so much hassle, then text me a week later asking how's it going, then acting like I am violating him in some way by calling him on this reversal.  (this was another factor that led to me not getting over him, I'd just begin to be doing so and he'd contact me again. It was like he knew.)

The moment I finally started to put it all together was, yesterday I told him via text message that a man I used to date was going to be in town (at this point he knows nothing at all, let alone whether there is even any potential of me getting back together with this other guy... .) and the freakout starts, and I respond with facts, and questions (which he ignores as usual) and I get out of the shower to see a big long message where he is informing me that he's blocking my number, this message contains criticisms of me that are so distorted and stretched that I... .I barely even want to read it... .I just scroll through and get a sense of the overall *tone* of the message and all it is is "BLAH BLAH DEFENSIVE BLAH BLAHHH".  Of course most of the criticism is completely and blatantly hypocritical.  

So what's happened since then, especially after reading the "Romeo's Bleeding" article, is, I'm able to blame myself less, and genuinely grieve.

I know co-dependency and anxious attachment have been mentioned here, and my experience has been that I can understand the labels and descriptions intellectually... .but still not be able to change... .and it's that waffling back and forth between accepting what happened, and longing for him again, that you describe, I experienced that too, peace_seeker.  There's something about the FEELINGS that seems to me to be required to really move past needing to use your will to "stay strong", that is to be disciplined... .into genuine insight.

Something just happened today where I dipped into this deep pocket of grief, where I was grieving not only the loss of this relationship but... .some things from my childhood too? (Possibly issues with my parents, possibly from being bullied in elementary school) I wasn't really clear which childhood interactions it was but it didn't matter, because I was just having this realization that... .no matter how much I "get my behaviour right" I cannot make this person love me.  And, in order to survive as a child, I had to attach to (more or less) dysfunctional people.  (I got some good nurturing from my mom when I was quite small.  She had to protect me from my dad though, and unsurprisingly didn't always succeed at that, and then I ran into some pretty dysfunctional people at school.)  

Please note that by "survival" I don't mean physical life or death survival, I mean psychological survival, our instinct is to bond with our caregivers, and children can experience feelings of threat to the bond from something as subtle as a parent withdrawing attention from the child when they are expressing a certain emotion.  Matt Licata, John Welwood and Bruce Tift (not much of his writing on the Web but there is an audio series "Already Free" which is quite good) and probably others explain this "developmental view".

I've had this thought before, understood it well enough, but the emotions are required to make the connection.  I want to repeat that one line, because I think it is important.  In order to survive, I had to attach to dysfunctional people.  Hence the "I'm not good enough to be loved" belief that so many people have.

So, it's not that I'm now "learning to love myself" or "parenting my inner child" or "learning to set better boundaries" or any of that kind of rhetoric.  I'm not even really sure how someone could switch straight from self-blame to doing what these catchphrases say, really, unless they can get past blaming themselves (which could be subtle and maybe not in the person's full conscious awareness!) into their authentic emotions including grief.

[eeks]

So although I am still feeling pretty beat up emotionally, and THIS is certainly not the way I would have chosen to feel or to undergo this process, I can see how this experience may well lead to transformation for me, and to me being wiser. 

Both because of the emotional processing that I just described, and because the other thing is, when I read those articles, I see that I DID see a lot of the signs in this man quite early on.  I just didn't know what they meant.  For example, I could see that he was really infatuated with me very early on, and I liked him a lot... .but maybe not as much as he liked me?  And I didn't want to say anything, because I thought it would disappoint him?  (I made a typo and wrote "disapoopo" first, yeah that's about it)  And I rationalized his feelings for me as "unusual but harmless". 

And I thought that how emotionally open he was with me, and worried that I would judge or reject him, I found that refreshing compared to the usual dating process and almost endearing.  And when he described such a long list of personal trauma, and people taking advantage of him... .(before I realized I too would join that long list) I thought he was a misunderstood sensitive intelligent creative person... .and he is.  I still believe he is.  I hesitate to paint people with this disorder as evil. It's just... .the realization needed to hit home that I cannot love this person back to health.  That's not enough.  They need committed, skilled psychotherapy, and perhaps even that's not enough.  It's tragic, if you think about it.

[eeks]

It looks like I can't modify my original posts anymore (time window?)  But I just read the thread about empathy https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210574.0;all and I wanted to add something else that might be important. 

It seems I started off internalizing the criticisms from my possibly BPD "ex" (I hesitate to even call him an "ex" since the relationship was so short), believing the criticisms... .well not totally believing them but questioning myself and fearing, is this true about me? Also a genuine desire to be accountable for my behaviour that had had an impact on someone else.

But then when it continued... .and continued... .I sort of went to the flip side, where my responses were pointing out his inconsistency and hypocrisy.  This is probably better for my self-esteem than believing the criticism, and may be a necessary stage in my process, but it still isn't empathic.

So with regards to empathy, I noticed that when someone is rejecting me for behaviours and characteristics that they themselves possess (possibly they do it even worse than I do or repeated in their lives) I have a really difficult time empathizing with them.  I thought about why that might be.  First of all, it seems I have a strong reaction to hypocrisy. (ohh, I wonder if this is really about things I could never call my father on doing?  yikes.)

I also think the rejection brings up a deep down fear in me that I am not lovable... .almost like, even if I am not sure if I believe the criticism, the fact that it is happening at all triggers some deeper level reflexive fear that it's true anyway.  This generates a sort of insecurity in me, I become unstable and don't feel safe in the relationship, and that makes it very, very difficult for me to see through the blaming and criticism and be present with the person's pain.  I need security and validation in a relationship too, but somehow I was drawn to someone who (I now realize) is unable to provide it. 

I see that real empathy and validation is what the person with BPD needs, but at the same time I also see the degree of personal stability that one would need to have within themselves in order to genuinely provide this for the person... .basically re-parent them as though they were a small child, to be able to see underneath the blaming and abuse to the feelings and needs that the person is not very self-aware of and not communicating clearly, and without even a slight agenda of wanting the BPD person to provide empathy in return.  Very high level of personal stability and emotional health required for that!  So even though I think this level of empathy is a worthwhile goal for all humans to strive for, I don't have to feel too bad that I couldn't practice it in this situation, and perhaps it's not something one can achieve by conscious will alone, I might have had to healed my own traumas (or at minimum have more practice than I currently do at skills so I don't get "hooked".  And I think it has to be a choice, too, can I commit to a relationship like this or do I want something more reciprocal.

So I totally understand the questions along the lines of, "why would we remain feeling so attached to someone who is abusive?"  Viewed rationally, it just doesn't make any sense.  But I am starting to see how (with my therapist's help) I can use this experience for greater self-awareness.

For instance, with regards to my "ex" I still get pangs of "ohh, what if I'm missing out on something great... ."  There it is again! The old trigger!  If someone is withholding their love from me, it becomes like this tantalizing thing I just have to have, oh wow they are withholding it from me because I'm not good enough, so they must be really great and their love must be really great and if only I could be good enough I would get that sweet, sweet reward... .  I don't know if a person's triggers ever "go away" but it seems to me the more I'm able to catch it when it's operating, the likelier I am to be able to choose a different response other than the habitual reflex one.

[christin5433]

Hi I just want you to know that it's not easy getting over this type of attachment. I'm learning its obvious to others that its for the best but to just spend all the time most of us have and the emeshment  that we experience with  BPD puts us through Its not easy to just get over. I'm so sick of my close friends just thinking I should be almost in the ok zone. I'm not even close to not being out of the FOG. I know I live it. My ex and I b/u right before Christmas but 2 weeks before b/u I was being put in a position I also had to make a decision. My story is a little more lengthy but I was not going to go along with the demand of being ok with my Exs ex husband after he had pulled some big time problem in our lives. I had to put my foot down no way could I agree. I had agreed to all the other tantrums but no more.

So it was over w threats and hate.

I feel your pain and I also still know I have love for my ex partner but I have been treated wrong and I must give myself a chance at not going through this type of hate. Is that really love  . Yes I believe I loved but I really think they just go to the next victim. We just get erased . I had a family w my ex. Gone at Christmas . I'm on this site a lot lately it's my saving grace . Because everyone else thinks its just nothing b/u and 30 days you should be fine now. I'm just at the surface of grasping the issues that's I have gone thru and grieving is not a timed thing. Take care and just know your not alone

[jhkbuzz]

So although I am still feeling pretty beat up emotionally, and THIS is certainly not the way I would have chosen to feel or to undergo this process, I can see how this experience may well lead to transformation for me, and to me being wiser.  

Both because of the emotional processing that I just described, and because the other thing is, when I read those articles, I see that I DID see a lot of the signs in this man quite early on.  I just didn't know what they meant.  For example, I could see that he was really infatuated with me very early on, and I liked him a lot... .but maybe not as much as he liked me?  And I didn't want to say anything, because I thought it would disappoint him?  (I made a typo and wrote "disapoopo" first, yeah that's about it)  And I rationalized his feelings for me as "unusual but harmless".  

And I thought that how emotionally open he was with me, and worried that I would judge or reject him, I found that refreshing compared to the usual dating process and almost endearing.  And when he described such a long list of personal trauma, and people taking advantage of him... .(before I realized I too would join that long list) I thought he was a misunderstood sensitive intelligent creative person... .and he is.  I still believe he is.  I hesitate to paint people with this disorder as evil. It's just... .the realization needed to hit home that I cannot love this person back to health.  That's not enough.  They need committed, skilled psychotherapy, and perhaps even that's not enough.  It's tragic, if you think about it.

This ^ EXACTLY. **sigh**  "I cannot love this person back to health."  

[jhkbuzz]

It seems I started off internalizing the criticisms from my possibly BPD "ex" (I hesitate to even call him an "ex" since the relationship was so short), believing the criticisms... .well not totally believing them but questioning myself and fearing, is this true about me? Also a genuine desire to be accountable for my behaviour that had had an impact on someone else.

I've just started talking about this very thing with my therapist.  Intellectually I know that it takes two to tango (I was in an 8 year r/s)... .but so much of what she did was dysfunctional that it's hard to separate how I might have contributed to the demise of the r/s.  And while I want to understand my part (so I don't carry it forward into a new r/s), there is a part of me that's afraid to know... .I think: what if it's really horrible?  What if this "thing" about me is a lion's share of the reason why the r/s didn't work?  And how sad would that be, in light of the fact that I loved her very, very much?    I know that these thoughts don't make sense; I know that my exBPDgf's behavior (infidelity) destroyed the r/s beyond repair - but these fears about myself seem to lurk deep in my emotional psyche.

I also think the rejection brings up a deep down fear in me that I am not lovable... .almost like, even if I am not sure if I believe the criticism, the fact that it is happening at all triggers some deeper level reflexive fear that it's true anyway.  This generates a sort of insecurity in me, I become unstable and don't feel safe in the relationship, and that makes it very, very difficult for me to see through the blaming and criticism and be present with the person's pain.  I need security and validation in a relationship too, but somehow I was drawn to someone who (I now realize) is unable to provide it. 

... .and this also ^. It's amazing how some many of us on these discussion boards have similar experiences. I am digging deep to figure out the origin of this feeling... .

I see that real empathy and validation is what the person with BPD needs, but at the same time I also see the degree of personal stability that one would need to have within themselves in order to genuinely provide this for the person... .basically re-parent them as though they were a small child, to be able to see underneath the blaming and abuse to the feelings and needs that the person is not very self-aware of and not communicating clearly, and without even a slight agenda of wanting the BPD person to provide empathy in return.  Very high level of personal stability and emotional health required for that!  So even though I think this level of empathy is a worthwhile goal for all humans to strive for, I don't have to feel too bad that I couldn't practice it in this situation, and perhaps it's not something one can achieve by conscious will alone, I might have had to healed my own traumas (or at minimum have more practice than I currently do at skills so I don't get "hooked".  And I think it has to be a choice, too, can I commit to a relationship like this or do I want something more reciprocal.

You're describing a therapeutic relationship here... .and it's definitely a decision that you would have to make to make in order to get comfortable with the sacrifice (your last sentence).  Personally, I don't think it would be healthy for ANYONE to answer in the affirmative.  As much as I loved my exBPDgf, I know I don't have it in me to provide her with this.  And I shouldn't have to - that's what therapists are for.

For instance, with regards to my "ex" I still get pangs of "ohh, what if I'm missing out on something great... ."  There it is again! The old trigger!  If someone is withholding their love from me, it becomes like this tantalizing thing I just have to have, oh wow they are withholding it from me because I'm not good enough, so they must be really great and their love must be really great and if only I could be good enough I would get that sweet, sweet reward... .  I don't know if a person's triggers ever "go away" but it seems to me the more I'm able to catch it when it's operating, the likelier I am to be able to choose a different response other than the habitual reflex one.

:'(   I cannot WAIT for the day that I figure out what's at the bottom of that feeling! I suspect that it will be the very day that I can completely let go of the attachment to my ex... .and move into compassionate indifference.

[jhkbuzz]

I've had this thought before, understood it well enough, but the emotions are required to make the connection.  I want to repeat that one line, because I think it is important.  In order to survive, I had to attach to dysfunctional people.  Hence the "I'm not good enough to be loved" belief that so many people have.

I may put this on my fridge... .    I want to think about this one some more.

[peace_seeker]

For instance, with regards to my "ex" I still get pangs of "ohh, what if I'm missing out on something great... ."  There it is again! The old trigger!  If someone is withholding their love from me, it becomes like this tantalizing thing I just have to have, oh wow they are withholding it from me because I'm not good enough, so they must be really great and their love must be really great and if only I could be good enough I would get that sweet, sweet reward... .  I don't know if a person's triggers ever "go away" but it seems to me the more I'm able to catch it when it's operating, the likelier I am to be able to choose a different response other than the habitual reflex one.

Eeks, this makes so much sense to me. I think you nailed some of my issues in this paragraph. I definitely feel like i'm missing out on how good my life could be if i am still with him, this tantalizing thing that i just have to have. Thanks fo sharing your story and your pt of view! so many pts struck a cord with me, i really need to sit down and think and process all these more deeply. 

[peace_seeker]

Hi I just want you to know that it's not easy getting over this type of attachment. I'm learning its obvious to others that its for the best but to just spend all the time most of us have and the emeshment  that we experience with  BPD puts us through Its not easy to just get over. I'm so sick of my close friends just thinking I should be almost in the ok zone. I'm not even close to not being out of the FOG. I know I live it. My ex and I b/u right before Christmas but 2 weeks before b/u I was being put in a position I also had to make a decision. My story is a little more lengthy but I was not going to go along with the demand of being ok with my Exs ex husband after he had pulled some big time problem in our lives. I had to put my foot down no way could I agree. I had agreed to all the other tantrums but no more.

So it was over w threats and hate.

I feel your pain and I also still know I have love for my ex partner but I have been treated wrong and I must give myself a chance at not going through this type of hate. Is that really love  . Yes I believe I loved but I really think they just go to the next victim. We just get erased . I had a family w my ex. Gone at Christmas . I'm on this site a lot lately it's my saving grace . Because everyone else thinks its just nothing b/u and 30 days you should be fine now. I'm just at the surface of grasping the issues that's I have gone thru and grieving is not a timed thing. Take care and just know your not alone

Hi christin5433, Im sorry to hear about your story. Being discarded just before Christmas must have been so horrible. I feel your pain too and i konw how horrible it must be when friends arent able to understand why we can't get over them. that's why this forum is such a life saver. Thanks for your encouragement, i hope you'll find more strength through others as well. 

[eeks]

I've just started talking about this very thing with my therapist.  Intellectually I know that it takes two to tango (I was in an 8 year r/s)... .but so much of what she did was dysfunctional that it's hard to separate how I might have contributed to the demise of the r/s.  And while I want to understand my part (so I don't carry it forward into a new r/s), there is a part of me that's afraid to know... .I think: what if it's really horrible?  What if this "thing" about me is a lion's share of the reason why the r/s didn't work?  And how sad would that be, in light of the fact that I loved her very, very much?    I know that these thoughts don't make sense; I know that my exBPDgf's behavior (infidelity) destroyed the r/s beyond repair - but these fears about myself seem to lurk deep in my emotional psyche.

Hi jhkbuzz, this is the tough part about "shadow work", in popular culture or personal growth it seems like the bad part is always emphasized, with the assumption that that is the part people really, really don't want to face, so we have to turn up the intensity a few more notches to get through to them.  I don't think the awareness piece for people who were in relationships with someone with BPD is necessarily "how you might have contributed to the demise of the relationship". 

Or at least, that's not what I'm looking at right now.  For me, it's been more about an awareness that with both these people (I had a friend with uBPD last year too) that I saw the signs fairly early on, something in my intuition that just goes "whoa!", but I ignore it at that point, not because I think it doesn't mean anything, but because at that point I don't have a context for it, I can't put it together with anything else. 

Also if my statement "In order to survive, I had to attach to dysfunctional people" resonated with you, this could be part of it for you too, asking whether you chose your former partner because she was someone limited in similar ways to your caregivers, and you had an unconscious feeling that "this is the person who is going to make everything all right".

The book "Keeping The Love You Find" by Harville Hendrix, has a comprehensive explanation of this... .he says that no matter how much you work on yourself or get therapy, the intimate partners you feel closest to (he refers to spouses, the book was written in the 1990's and he's a former pastoral counsellor, update that as you will) WILL wound you in ways similar to how your early caregivers did.  The difference is finding a partner who is committed to staying through those stormy times, where both of you are re-experiencing these wounds, coming to a richer relationship on the other side. 

Another thought I had was that a relationship really is the sum of its parts.  I had an emotional moment today, imagining my "ex" moving on to another woman and I realized, no!  He can still only contribute what he had to contribute with me, and that since he presumably hasn't had an epiphany and is still operating in the same patterns, how he treated me in times of conflict is going to come out in his future relationships, guaranteed. 

[eeks]

For instance, with regards to my "ex" I still get pangs of "ohh, what if I'm missing out on something great... ."  There it is again! The old trigger!  If someone is withholding their love from me, it becomes like this tantalizing thing I just have to have, oh wow they are withholding it from me because I'm not good enough, so they must be really great and their love must be really great and if only I could be good enough I would get that sweet, sweet reward... .  I don't know if a person's triggers ever "go away" but it seems to me the more I'm able to catch it when it's operating, the likelier I am to be able to choose a different response other than the habitual reflex one.

Eeks, this makes so much sense to me. I think you nailed some of my issues in this paragraph. I definitely feel like i'm missing out on how good my life could be if i am still with him, this tantalizing thing that i just have to have. Thanks fo sharing your story and your pt of view! so many pts struck a cord with me, i really need to sit down and think and process all these more deeply. 

Hi peace_seeker... .yeah. "Normal", "healthy" people, in my opinion, don't withhold love on a deliberate or manipulative basis.  If there is an issue they will do their best to be honest and up-front about it (unlike many of the stories about pwBPD on this site in which they can vanish from even lengthy relationships with barely an explanation... .)

And yet, there is something about us that makes us think when they're withholding, it's our fault, or because we're not good enough... .

I know that one of my parents withheld positive emotion because I didn't meet his standards, how about yours?

[peace_seeker]

Hi peace_seeker... .yeah. "Normal", "healthy" people, in my opinion, don't withhold love on a deliberate or manipulative basis.  If there is an issue they will do their best to be honest and up-front about it (unlike many of the stories about pwBPD on this site in which they can vanish from even lengthy relationships with barely an explanation... .)

And yet, there is something about us that makes us think when they're withholding, it's our fault, or because we're not good enough... .

I know that one of my parents withheld positive emotion because I didn't meet his standards, how about yours?

Hi eeks, my parents don’t withhold positive emotions, but (now with much more understanding of a caretaker role) I do see my mom being the caretaker of the family. My dad is someone who get agitated easily, and my mom is constantly submitting to him and constantly trying to get validated for whatever she does at home (her cooking, her ability to take care of our dog, etc). And I’ve come to realize that I’ve probably picked up this caretaker role from my mom. On top of that, my parents aren’t the affirmative type – hence I constantly struggle with getting their approval. Or rather, people’s approval in general. I noticed that I will be VERY grateful to anyone who ever praise me, or believes in me, because it seems like such a precious thing to me. I know i am probably very empty inside, and my ex filled up lots of these voids that i have. And probably that is why I miss him this much, even though it is ironic whenever i rmb how he used to put me down as well. and it is even harder now because he seems to be living well - no replacement, but just lots of exercising, new photography hobby (which i would say he picked up from me) and travelling. it just makes me feel like he became a better person after the breakup and it makes me feel really sad because 1) i feel like i'm missing out on such a wonderful side of him 2) feel ashamed that he's able to be better off now, something which he may never be able to be when with me, and it almost feels like it is my fault for bringing him down. <- still can't break free from my own abusive thoughts. recognised it, told myself to stop doing it, but still can't believe my own words.

[eeks]

I know i am probably very empty inside, and my ex filled up lots of these voids that i have. And probably that is why I miss him this much, even though it is ironic whenever i rmb how he used to put me down as well. and it is even harder now because he seems to be living well - no replacement, but just lots of exercising, new photography hobby (which i would say he picked up from me) and travelling. it just makes me feel like he became a better person after the breakup and it makes me feel really sad because 1) i feel like i'm missing out on such a wonderful side of him 2) feel ashamed that he's able to be better off now, something which he may never be able to be when with me, and it almost feels like it is my fault for bringing him down. <- still can't break free from my own abusive thoughts. recognised it, told myself to stop doing it, but still can't believe my own words.

My guess is that even though he looks like he's living well right now, and may be on the surface, unless he has some kind of major personal, emotional insight (of the type that doesn't look like it happens that quickly for BPD people) he's going to repeat the same patterns in the next relationship that he has.

Hey, I just have anxiety disorder and it's hard enough for me, with therapy and commitment to self-awareness, to really change patterns (and not just do a different variant on the same old thing).  Imagine how difficult it must be for someone with a personality disorder, which goes much deeper.

I think we have this myth in Western culture that a good relationship is just a matter of finding the "right person", and if your relationship is not working out you are with the "wrong person" and you need to break up or divorce and start over.  I mentioned a book by Harville Hendrix in a previous post, you might want to check that one out as well.