PTSD from abuse of borderline

[jo19854]

Hi all,

I am really struggling at this moment. My wife suddenly abandoned me a year ago. It's a long story and I hope that some of you want to take time to read my profile. I never heard of her again and just before she left she told me she had PTSD. I don't know if she diagnosed herself, she never mentioned it before. I wonder if her behaviour could be caused by (C)PTSD. I know she was seriously abused at very young age, and also the moment her younger daughters were taken away from her was a traumatising event.

I ask for some help and insight from members so i can find closure in some way, the emotional pain is unbearable at this moment.

Thanks so much for helping me

Jos

[Ziggiddy]

Hi Jo19854

What a terrible thing to happen to you!

i am so sorry for the distress that it must have caused you.

You mention her daughters being taken away from her -are you able to enlarge on that  a little? Did she say anything more about the PTSD? Were you married long before this happened?

Please do detail more of your situation

Ziggiddy

[jo19854]

You mention her daughters being taken away from her -are you able to enlarge on that  a little? Did she say anything more about the PTSD? Were you married long before this happened?

Please do detail more of your situation

Ziggiddy

We met in 2003, she wanted to relocate with her little daughters and we were in court from 2004 until 2006. In june 2006 her 2 children (ages 9 and 11) were allowed to relocate to Holland and they were so happy. They went to school here and soon had many friends and started to socialise. In august we got notifed that the higher court had decided that they should return. Within a few days the were taken away from her, pulled out her arms. It was horrible and cruel.

I know from her she's being sexually abused when she was a kid herself under age of 10.

So maybe more C-PTSD.

We got married in Feb 2012 under Dutch law, she was so happy. Then she got her dutch citizenship in Sept 2012, again so happy.

We never had a fight or even a quarrel. In 2013 she got Hep C treatment and she emotionally abandoned me, no touching, hugging nothing.

In the week before she left she started to do a bit better, she gave me hugs again and at that moment she mentioned she suffered PTSD. It was her answer when i asked her why she was so easily in a state of shock when the door slammed or something loud happened.

She smiled at me when i left for work,... .

Well, i don't want to make it to long, its all in my profile, i am so looking for answers to find closure. I just love her unconditionally i guess.

Jos  

[JRT]

jo... .really sorry to hear that you are going through this... .

Mine story has similarities to yours... .no arguments between us and in fact a happy relationship... .she disappeared 4 months ago and I have not heard from her since... .I have no idea where she lives and she has blocked me from every conceivable way to contact her... .I hope that you can take comfort in knowing that you are not the only one... .AND, this is not your fault!

[jo19854]

Hi, I am trying to find closure and really need some help and insight/advice

I won't make it a long story here, its all in my profile and i really hope you take time to read it. It's such a difficult situation.

It's just that i try to find some kind of explanation for myself to be able to deal with it all and find closure.

My wife abandoned me a year ago, for me it was out of the blue.

At this moment i read posts and books related to dealing with suicide of a spouse.

I deal with the same emotions, questions, guilt. pain and fears.

On top of that i know i am ignored by her. I don't have a place to bring flowers. I miss her so much.

It's been a year now and I struggle tremendously. (sorry english is not my native language)

[jo19854]

thank you very much. I don't think its me either, but leaving after 12 years and all the things we had to deal with.

JRT I wish you all the best and thx for your contribution

[Tim300]

Hang in there.  You are not alone.  I, for one, can relate very well to what you're describing.  Has your PTSD at least been subsiding a little bit each day? 

[jo19854]

Subsiding, yes i guess it happened after marriage. We got married in early 2012 and after summer it really started.

She went to her daughters wedding in late 2012 alone and after her return she had a brief relapse on alcohol.

She stopped, had to stop because she wouldnt get her 48 week treatment for her chronic physical illness... .it started early 2013...

That treatment can cause real depression and i think it did. Its horrible.

Strange thing after treatment in the last week of january 2014 she started to talk again a bit.

But her words and actions don´t match her leaving.

Well i don´t know if you read my profile, else i repeat myself over and over.

If you would like to know more about specific contradictions in her actions and words i will post some more.

Thank you so much

[Grey Kitty]

I read your story. Heartbreaking.

It sounds puzzling to me, as much as it does to you.

Did she ever leave you or threaten to leave you before a year ago?

[jo19854]

Hi GreyKitty,

No not a word. Just before she left she started to talk a bit again. Gave me hug herself. She asked my dad to sharpen the kitchen-knives because she couldnt cut the meat with it. She started to cook again and did some laundry so i thougght she started to feel a bit better. We had a conversation where she told me she had plans for the Spring.  I heard from a member in here sobriety group that a week before she left she told them that she was very gratefull for what i did and maybe didn't show it enough and that she wanted to make something of it now her treatment was done. She even took care of some details to ensure her daughter could visit us in the summer.  She smiled at me the morning i went to work. It's unbelievable.

[Grey Kitty]

I can't explain your wife to you. (If you even call her that after a year of not being able to contact her, or not getting any response)

I'm not even doing very well at explaining my own wife, but there is *something* that she's told me recently that might help.

She's starting to realize that she is unable to make her own independent choices--Over 20+ years, she has fallen into the pattern of coming up with a bunch of ideas or plans, sharing them with me, and letting me say whether I like or don't like those ideas/plans.

Mostly she does the ones that I agree to, and drops the others. Occasionally she does things in defiance of my opinions. Either way, she's defining herself based on me, my statements, what she thinks my unstated needs and desires are, or fear of what I would say which may keep her from even mentioning things she wants.

In MC she's pretty directly acknowledged that she is nearly incapable of stating directly what she wants, and then either doing it (if it is her own choice) or negotiating it with me (if it is a joint decision).

She is feeling like she's been stifled or controlled for all 20+ years of our marriage. [Adding my side of the story makes it more complicated... .but doesn't change how she feels about it] She's also feeling like she can't take it anymore.

One thing that I see clearly... .and she's starting to see is that she participated willingly in being stifled/controlled, and she has to change herself to get out of that dynamic with me. (I also believe that if she chooses to end the marriage to save herself from this, she is very likely to get into another r/s and repeat the pattern in some way, but that wouldn't be my problem!)

Perhaps your wife has similar things she's been ignoring, refusing to acknowledge, and had to run away from.

However you will never know unless she tells you... .and even if she does tell you something, she may not be truthful... .and she may not even be self-aware enough to know the truth.


I'm afraid that the only closure you can count on is the closure you make for yourself, not what she gives you.   

[jo19854]

Hi GreyKitty.

My wife has a good heart inside. She needs help and support and when you give it she feels dominated is guess. She didn't want to do much, she was in pain she said. It's true that i was the one with ideas and i really didnt like it that much. It was not the case when i met her. At that time she took initiative. But after her huge relapse from 2006-2009 it never was on that level again.

I also believe that the hepC treatment was to heavy for her given the past trauma's.

But i maybe will never know.

The sudden changes, the dissociation, a kind of split personality kind of behaviour is so unreal.

I read on internet very bad things about treatment with interferons and ribaverin.

But the wonderful person i once knew seems vanished.

After all, without painting her black she;

- was abused at very young age

- admitted she was diagnosed passive agressive

- admitted she had abandonement issues

- was an addict and i wonder if she worked enough on herself

- she mentioned PTSD, i don't know if it was selfdiagnosed

But to be treated like a physical abusive husband, who betrayed her etc.

She runs away and leave me with all her stuff and dog over here.

I never heard of this, nor read such an extreme.

Thanks for your reply

[Grey Kitty]

husband, who betrayed her etc.

She runs away and leave me with all her stuff and dog over here.

I never heard of this, nor read such an extreme.

I don't think that understanding her is going to be your answer--whether you succeed at that or not.

I think the answer you need is what it means to you.

And what you want to do with your life now.

[maxen]

hi jos. i am so sorry for this and i want to extend my sympathy but also my solidarity, because it happened to me also. if your wife does have BPD there's a variety of ways this behavior can be explained, and none of them were caused by you. we have lots of resources here which may help you with recovery and with focusing on yourself.

She smiled at me when i left for work,... .

four days before she bolted, my wife suggested we rent a power washer that weekend to clean the house. the morning before she bolted, we were flinging the usual funny emails we did every day. the fallout was horrific. i saw her twice after that, how hard it must have been for you not to have any contact again. 

do you have friends, family, some set of social activities? these won't give you answers but it's good to keep plugged into life.

[JRT]

wow... .sounds like mine as well: we never argued of had disagreements... .we were doing house projects and such the weeks before. we were planning cooks outs, our wedding, etc the night before... .I went to the airport later with no discernible change in anything... .the next morning the usual texts... .then in the afternoon, a text that said... .'our relationship is over... .i have moved out... .don't ever try to contact me... .I have never spoken with her since or even know where she lives.

[Ziggiddy]

I don't know why your wife left jo or for some of the others but maybe I can cast some light on that kind of behaviour a bit.

I used to leave. I have not left my marriage but at least 3 times I had been on the brink of it. And each time I would not have said anything I would have just disappeared.

And I have left relationships before using that exit method.

Now I am not BPD but I did act and think very much like my BPD mother  .

Part of this was integrally knowing that I was faulty to the point of being broken. A buildup of conflicts led to the decision(s) to leave but it was critical to me that they didn't know it was coming. They had wronged me and my own convictions knew that any apology or amends a) would not be coming and b) would not be sincere. I kne wit would be 'Well sorreee"  and I would again be left in my pain of rejection - a fog that no love could penetrate.

it was almost like I HAD to leave. I couldn't stay and be loved - too foreign to my system.

And I am not proud of this but I wanted to inflict maximum pain without having to deal with the fallout. Secretly I believed the pain wouldn't be that much - after all they didn't really love me. my leaving would be more of a convenience at them not having to break up with me.

But if there WAS a chance for hurt, I would be hopeful they would feel it.

It also recalls in me times when I would deliberately yet completely unconsciously sabotage r/ships. I would ring some poor guy I fancied over and over - not wanting to, knowing he would get sick of it and - get this - even in sadness knowing what it would do, but feeling compelled to do it. Like trudging sadly to the phone and thinking I don't want to DO this I don't want to Do this but I HAVE to.

Like walking to prison or an execution or something.

Anyway this may not be the case with your situation Jo or JRT or maxen but it may give you some clues

Ziggiddy

[JRT]

Zig... WOW... .you are exactly the person that I have been looking to for answers but have not come across yet... .thank you very much for your post!... .can you help me to understand a few things? I take it that there was conflict in your relationships but there was never in mine yet it all seems to line up. The spirt of alll that she had said and her response to me when I have attempted to contact me was as if I had done something profoundly hurtful to her on a deliberate and sustained basis. Yet there was none of that and I treated her whit a high amount of respect and attention. We never argued or disagreed at all. So what is up with the anger? How is it that a woman moves into my house and 3 weeks later moves out. If she was planning this that far in advance, why did she move in to begin with? I was sure that there were triggers that happened after the move in.

So what went though her head? What did I do wrong if anything? What could I have done differently? Finally, what should I expect from her. It has been 4 months... .I attempted to contact her on xmas eve and she called the cops on me ... .I didn't even say a word to her.

My relationship was much different than the painful ones that I have read about here... .we did everything together and never fought... .we had common interests and goals, etc. Where it wasn't perfect, it FELT like the best relationship I ever had.

We recycled several times before and I suspect that it will happen again. I am not sure that I could be in a relationship with her again (maybe, but it would take a lot) or even friendship but it would be nice to have some closure on this if not anything else.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts

[Ziggiddy]

thanks for your comment and interest there, JRT. It is actually helpful to me as I haven't explored this side of myself much being so guilty and ashamed of the things I did.

Firstly as far as conflicts go, in the r/ships I left without saying goodbye, there was little or no surface conflict and if I felt hurt by something he said or did it was important to me to never show it to him (them, even) Helpfully I guess those people just took surface value, didn't know me as well as they thought they did and didn't delve too far.

Who could blame them? Everything seemed fine. Plus I was superficially tolerant, superficially easygoing so no one was going to penetrate that. i am an extremely good actress and know even how to nuance facial expressions to get you to think something. Very very few people in my life have ever gotten the full handle on this. And the ones that have are seasoned at picking out that type of thing. ( Like cops and social workers)

The ordinary person would not have stood a chance.

So i would be very very hesitant to believe that there was no little or no conflict going on, JRT. Maybe I'm cynical but I would more likely believe that there was a lot going on under the surface which your partner may have expertly hidden. i have had experiences with 3 BPD ladies and each one of them as good or better than me at hiding the real deal. And I LOOK for it, believe me.



As far as your partner moving in and then moving out, I can't tell you, but I can say i used to use my same exit method i jobs. i moved around with work and whenever some conflict came up I would be extremely sad and feel like I should just go. Then i would fight myself and put up posters on the wall (I never ever decorated anywhere I went) This was my way of committing to staying this time. Then scant days or even hours later, I'd be taking those posters back down, packing up and leaving. Often with no warning and usually within hours of making the decision.

I don't imagine it had anything at all to do with you JRT. No healthy person does that to another human being. Now that I have worked through so many issues I have more of a belief that my husband is staying but in the first 3 years i didn't. Even now I am not convinced he loves me but it's enough that he promised to stay with me forever and has done it so far.

I would recommend you cast a critical eye back over your time together and look for any possible clue that she was pretending to be calm in the face of conflict.

You need to use logic and not feeling to do this.

Put aside the idea that things were great and working for the moment and just try and reflect on situations where she acted differently than you'd expect or differently than others would in the same situation.

I did this with a BPD woman I was very close with when she departed very suddenly out of my life. BFFs we were. Our families extremely close very little conflict, worked within 3 feet of each other day after day month after month, talked non stop at work then caught up on weekends, hours on the phone. Then one day while I was waiting to pick up her kids from the bus stop BAM. Gone. Deleted off facebook, number disconnected, I didn't get it.

Anyway thinking critically I recalled her saying she was worried me and a friend of hers would go off and be friends without her. Months later, her friend wanted to come on an excursion with us. I asked my friend if that bothered her, reassuring her I still liked her best and would decline if she wanted. No no all good she says. Now thinking back although I was convinced she was telling the truth (and remember I was looking for the cracks) I must have been wrong. in fact I was. Quite wrong.

I suggest you look over anomalies like that.

Also if you haven't read about the evolution of a BPD love r/ship I'd highly recommend it. Particularly if you would consider going back to her. It will give you some insight into your own needs and where they may spring from.

Hope this helps, JRT

Zigz

PS Now I think about it, the open high conflict r/ship was the one I stayed in longest. Huh. In fact, he left ME!

[jo19854]

I was just making my reply and the message showed up there was a new post.

Thanks for all the information.

So I guess she was angry at me. God knows why.

I wonder many times, does she love me. How can she just stop loving after so much affection and understanding.

Her well being came first all the time.

If she loves me, well... .I still do

[jo19854]

Oh, i forgot. so 2 replies in a row from me.

Not that it maybe matters but i am puzzled about her remark of PTSD.

For me thats a big question in this topic

After a lot of research i recognize a lot about the stress.

I found this information from internet very usefull.

"Symptoms of PTSD include, but are not limited to:"

Recurrent, intrusive, and distressing thoughts about the event (I dont know)

Recurrent dreams, nightmares about the eventDistress caused by reminders of the event (she talked in her sleep a lot)

Alienation, isolation, and avoidance of people and places (she isolated herself, no contact)

Emotional numbing (For sure)

No sense of future (I guess)

Difficulty falling or staying asleep (She couldnt sleep without sound from TV)

Anger and rage (Maybe passive anger but rage -- NO !)

Difficulty concentrating or remembering (Concentration was very difficult)

Hyper-vigilant, or survivalist behavior (I cant tell)

Exaggerated startled response usually to loud noises (Very Very heavy response to sounds)

Maybe in my mind it makes a difference because in all those years with borderline she had more reasons to stop with me.

And perhaps with PTSS she will come to herself.

I don't want to divorce but I have no clue what will happen if i don't

Thank you all again,

[Grey Kitty]

Ziggiddy, your old way of handling conflict does sound similar to what my wife does with me, only more extreme.  

Silently putting up with things that hurt you... .adding them to the pile... .until you can't take anymore and finally doing something drastic. That is what she did. OK, she wasn't ALWAYS silent. Sometimes her feelings about it burst out, but not in a way that was easy to hear, or that led me to change my behavior to hurt her less.

I'm sure the more I understand how you felt about these things, the better I will do at understanding my wife.

It is amazing what comes up when people here can get some healing together when they took opposite roles in hurtful situations like this.

... .helpful to me as I haven't explored this side of myself much being so guilty and ashamed of the things I did.

Firstly as far as conflicts go, in the r/ships I left without saying goodbye, there was little or no surface conflict and if I felt hurt by something he said or did it was important to me to never show it to him (them, even)

... .

Now that I have worked through so many issues I have more of a belief that my husband is staying but in the first 3 years i didn't. Even now I am not convinced he loves me but it's enough that he promised to stay with me forever and has done it so far.

I've got a question for you... .on behalf of jo19845's current situation... .

You say you've worked through a many issues since you were a person who would silently leave on no notice. You clearly don't want to ever do that again, and probably won't do it either.

How much did you have to work through to get where you are? How long did it take? What kind of support/therapy did you get?

[Ziggiddy]

Hi greyKitty and thanks for the feedback.

(Hope this isn't a thread hijack, JO!)

What issues did I work through? hm. Good question.

Well it was coloured by a set of spiritual beliefs really. My first thing was to really try and understand that I wasn't the reason people did things. To move away from egocentricity. This made me feel very unsafe and took a lot of practice and reassurance. ie "Are you mad at me? "No I had a problem at work." and then downward spiral - No it's me. He's just trying to make me feel better. Really he IS mad at me. What did I do? It must have been x. or y. or z. or all of them.

It was unbearable. Trying to figure out which of my faults was the one that made him mad. I couldn't accept it had nothing to do with me.

I had to learn to try and trust that he was telling the truth even though I didn't believe it. That's a leap of faith. I learned that it was unkind and self absorbed to think people were only ever thinking of me and trying to get something from me or deceive me. Big BIG step.

I also had to develop a trust in a higher power to understand that many things were out of my control.

Especially people.

Especially, most especially the people that I loved.

To understand that conflict didn't mean the death of a r/ship. Prior to the healing work, I really believed that it was. If it wasn't perfect, if I wasn't perfect and he SAW that it was simply too dangerous to stay.

Around that time I saw my mother break with yet another lifelong friendship and it occurred to me that she could just say she was sorry and maybe the rift could be healed.

Now THAT was a breakthrough.

Both for the recognition that I was following a role model and for the idea of a conflict not leading to a complete end/break.

Now I can see so much clearer that without insight into how your behaviour patterns are acquired you just think they are your own. Effectively placing appropriate blame was crucial to stop self blaming. From there you get to recognise that critical voice is not yours and the pain you feel is from knowing that it's not yours and trying to believe it is.

I hope that makes sense?

Oh, i forgot. so 2 replies in a row from me.

Not that it maybe matters but i am puzzled about her remark of PTSD.

For me thats a big question in this topic

After a lot of research i recognize a lot about the stress.

I found this information from internet very usefull.

"Symptoms of PTSD include, but are not limited to:"

Recurrent, intrusive, and distressing thoughts about the event (I dont know)

Recurrent dreams, nightmares about the eventDistress caused by reminders of the event (she talked in her sleep a lot)

Alienation, isolation, and avoidance of people and places (she isolated herself, no contact)

Emotional numbing (For sure)

No sense of future (I guess)

Difficulty falling or staying asleep (She couldnt sleep without sound from TV)

Anger and rage (Maybe passive anger but rage -- NO !)

Difficulty concentrating or remembering (Concentration was very difficult)

Hyper-vigilant, or survivalist behavior (I cant tell)

Exaggerated startled response usually to loud noises (Very Very heavy response to sounds)

Jo it sounds like she was aware that she had a problem - else why mention the PTSD to you?

The needing to sleep with TV on - some people with PTSD often avoid quiet because it causes intrusive thoughts. Too painful to think about. Same with social isolation.

It seems to me that she had too much going on in her feelings so she was numbing/spacing/dissociating.

Also pwPTSD find it hard to express anger especially about the event that traumatised them as it is too swamped by the terror they felt.

I really hope you can find some peace

[jo19854]

Thanks for all the input.

I was never mad or angry at my wife. But i do understand the explanation Ziggy.

The more i research and read i believe PTSD was more the case.

I will wait and see what will happen.

She took the keys of the house with her, and she didn't leave her wedding ring.

She also took a picture of us with her. Me, her and the dog.

I let my higher power work (as much as i can because sometimes i really struggle) and light a candle every day.

Miracles do happen.

[Grey Kitty]

Miracles do happen.

How long are you willing to wait for one? And what are you willing to give up while you wait?

[jo19854]

How long are you willing to wait for one? And what are you willing to give up while you wait?

Time passes by. Many friends ask me the same thing.

But its not about waiting.

Im in my late 50's, feel strong but all my dreams are shattered. My daughter moved far away a few months later after my wife left, she wont be here for a long time. My son moved too and I see him about once a month.

My sweet mother is gotten very sick and I don't know how long she will be with us.

For the first time in i fear for my job and that would be the last blow i need.

Last year should have been a year of collecting and I lost everything within a few months.

From coming home with enough finances,dreams and a family to nothing and home alone. Home is not feeling as home.

I don't know how to answer your question, its not a matter of waiting, I still love her and it takes time to let go. I wish I could be angry but i just can't.

I am really very gratefull for your (and all others) replies.

So I wait, I do some work at home, walk the dog and pray for better times

[Grey Kitty]

  Sounds like you are losing a lot in your life around the same time.

So I wait, I do some work at home, walk the dog and pray for better times

Can you get a little more specific in those prayers? What would "better times" mean for you? Can you identify even three or four concrete things that would make for better times?

Especially any of them that you can make happen without depending on somebody else to do something.

I remember hearing a ~90 year old say he wished he had taken up the violin 20 years ago when he first thought about it but figured that he didn't have time. to learn... .and would have been playing for 20 years today if he had.

[jo19854]

I will answer but that takes time, i struggle with the answer. But i will reply.

Thanks for this question.  

[JRT]

It seems that the more i read, the more that I wonder if my ex is BPD, if ti was a combination of things (such as ACOA or PTDS) or if it was none of the above. Is it possible to be.say, both BPD AND PTDS?

[Grey Kitty]

You are most welcome. I've struggled with the same question myself.

If answering the question in a BIG way seems overwhelming... .try some small answers.

For example: I like my morning coffee, but sometimes am too sleepy to want to brew it... .and when I'm sufficiently awake to do so, I don't need it as much!

One small answer for me would be to buy a coffee maker with a timer that I can prep and set the night before!

[jo19854]

JRT,

PTSD and Bordeline it has overlaps. i struggle with the same question.

Why? Because in a way i try to find some closure, 2nd because PTSD can create situations similar to ours while sometimes there is a major depression underneath as result from PTSD and causes extreme behaviour and dissociation.

The chance for a future together with reasonable chance of survival with a borderline partner is as far as to my knowledge way less than PTSD

Nevertheless the situation doesn't change butt i saw this on internet (and maybe even earlier on this website)

https://femaleptsd.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/borderline-personality-disorder-vs-complex-ptsd/

GreyKitty, I am still trying to answer your question, I am working on it, but... .pffff given the whole situation and all other things that happened so fast I really struggle