Do they ever have an epiphany moment in the future?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I really have not come across such a story on these boards; where a pwBPD, some time after a breakup has a moment where thorugh therapy or otherwise have a 'WOW... .What have I done!" moment where they finally realize what they had (and that it was good) and what terrible things that they had done to the person in the relationship. Not the things that a BPD would say in an attempt to recycle, but a since and cognizant embrace of healthy reality. Not necessarily immediately but some time in the near or distant future.

[JRT]

I really have not come across such a story on these boards; where a pwBPD, some time after a breakup has a moment where thorugh therapy or otherwise have a 'WOW... .What have I done!" moment where they finally realize what they had (and that it was good) and what terrible things that they had done to the person in the relationship. Not the things that a BPD would say in an attempt to recycle, but a since and cognizant embrace of healthy reality. Not necessarily immediately but some time in the near or distant future.

[cloudten]

I would love to know the answer to this!

[charred]

They have them all the time... resulting in shame and other behavior. Cutting is a common BPD activity, so are all kinds of low self esteem related problems. Much of the way the BPD person thinks... is compartmentalizing, so an epiphany one moment can coexist with activities that are 100% inconsistent with that breakthrough a bit later. They do not have an integrated personality, where they see good and bad in people... it is a stilted development problem, they think like a little kid, they love you and are happy happy when you agree with them, and hate you and stomp around having a tantrum when they are upset. Kids grow out of it, they are stuck.

What are you hoping would be accomplished by your pwBPD having an Ephiphany?

[JRT]

Dunno... .just trying to understand it all better... .mine disappeared and we have not spoken to one another at all in 4 months... .part of me wants closure... .part of me wants to be a friend... .and a (shrinking) part of me wishes that it was all just a bad dream (we never fought and had a very good relationship - she is a waif type). We were very good for one another and spent every day together for the 2+ years that we were a couple. There was no acrimony... .no fights... .no disagreements, nothing. She had just moved in and we were planning our wedding when she went 'poof'.  This was the tragedy of my life.

It makes me sound like a bad guy, but it helps me to know that she is having a hard time and struggling with this just as badly as I am. Maybe I also have a problem for thinking this, I am not sure, but it makes me feel better.

Another perspective to this is that she has that Epiphany moment (she is seeing a T from what I know), and that I can communicate with her so, at least, I can have closure. 

[cloudten]

I'm sorry she left. That is probably the #1 that freaks me out about staying with my BPD. Maybe some of his abandonment fear has rubbed off on me. I would be devastated for him to just leave me without a word or reason. BUT- flip side- I could see the relief I could experience at not having him stalk me (as he has done when I have been the leave-r).

What would you say to her if she called you?

[JRT]

I am not at that stage yet, but I know that she will contact me at some point... .The biggest predictor of the future is the past. I was recycled several times so if history is any predictor, it will happen. ... .I have been guilty of breaking NC a couple of times directly and in some indirect ways; I didn't realize that even those ways would push further at the time and just saw them as 'temperature checks' if you will.

Mine was not like the typical BPD experiences I have read about here. She was a waif... .there were no problems with us. I used to be thankful that we didn't have to go to couples therapy, for example, like her newlywed sister and didn't have problems like she described about her siblings marriages. Frankly, I was happy and saw only minor problems - we never argued or disagreed. We went everywhere and did everything together for 2 years. Outside of the disappearing act and associated surprising anger, it is really difficult for me to be pissed at her (although I AM pissed).

Geez... .what would be an appropriate response? Most of the members of this forum would be quick to tell me to run as fast as I could in the opposite direction But I am not sure that is the correct reaction. Sometimes I think that it would be a 'welcome back home' and other times a punch in the nose seems like an appropriate response. I know I simply cannot take her back like I did in the past (funny how she would say that she took ME back), as I simply cannot live like this. No one can. 

[Hazelrah]

I know I simply cannot take her back like I did in the past (funny how she would say that she took ME back), as I simply cannot live like this. No one can. 

J,

This is a great step forward in thinking.  Waiting for the other shoe to drop is one of the factors I use in reminding myself that I'd never welcome my ex-wife back, either.   

[Terrychango]

My experience was very similar,  no arguments and we always got on for 15 months, she has mental health issues but we agreed we would likely get married when she finished her treatment (she is due to start this week oddly).

I sometimes tell myself I should run, I could not take her back as it was. I am trying to grow and learn about her condition and I'm hoping her treatment helps her to be mindful of her real feelings.

I am angry at her but on the other hand I feel for her, I was the first person she told about her childhood issues which I would guess caused her BPD.

I know she carries these issues every day, but yes I agree on the fact that no one ever seems to come back and say yes the treatment works.

No closure sucks, I speak to her mum about  it and she buries her head in the sand and says there is nothing wrong with her daughter.

I would love to come back one day and say her treatment works, The problem with that I think is that once you know about it, you could never say it has worked until you are gone... .it could come back in 1,10 or 50 years, what we have to decide is if we can find a way to work through it better and sustain the relationship happily.

[hergestridge]

For my exwife it's all about the blame game. When she has a soft moment she can stretch herself to saying "it's neither her or my fault". I think she seeks a LOT of support from friends. I think it's one of the most important concepts of her new life - that her divorce was just a normal one.

I bet a lot people around her wonders why her husband of 20 years won't speak to her.

[JRT]

I know I simply cannot take her back like I did in the past (funny how she would say that she took ME back), as I simply cannot live like this. No one can. 

J,

This is a great step forward in thinking.  Waiting for the other shoe to drop is one of the factors I use in reminding myself that I'd never welcome my ex-wife back, either.   

Thanks... .its like the sword of Damocles... .I actually was thinking randomly a couple weeks before the final b/e that it just wouldn't be a surprise if it happened again... .just didn't think it would be this permanent and total.  The scorched earth was amazing.

[JRT]

My experience was very similar,  no arguments and we always got on for 15 months, she has mental health issues but we agreed we would likely get married when she finished her treatment (she is due to start this week oddly).

I sometimes tell myself I should run, I could not take her back as it was. I am trying to grow and learn about her condition and I'm hoping her treatment helps her to be mindful of her real feelings.

I am angry at her but on the other hand I feel for her, I was the first person she told about her childhood issues which I would guess caused her BPD.

I know she carries these issues every day, but yes I agree on the fact that no one ever seems to come back and say yes the treatment works.

No closure sucks, I speak to her mum about  it and she buries her head in the sand and says there is nothing wrong with her daughter.

I would love to come back one day and say her treatment works, The problem with that I think is that once you know about it, you could never say it has worked until you are gone... .it could come back in 1,10 or 50 years, what we have to decide is if we can find a way to work through it better and sustain the relationship happily.

Did you b/e?

[JRT]

My experience was very similar,  no arguments and we always got on for 15 months, she has mental health issues but we agreed we would likely get married when she finished her treatment (she is due to start this week oddly).

I sometimes tell myself I should run, I could not take her back as it was. I am trying to grow and learn about her condition and I'm hoping her treatment helps her to be mindful of her real feelings.

I am angry at her but on the other hand I feel for her, I was the first person she told about her childhood issues which I would guess caused her BPD.

I know she carries these issues every day, but yes I agree on the fact that no one ever seems to come back and say yes the treatment works.

No closure sucks, I speak to her mum about  it and she buries her head in the sand and says there is nothing wrong with her daughter.

I would love to come back one day and say her treatment works, The problem with that I think is that once you know about it, you could never say it has worked until you are gone... .it could come back in 1,10 or 50 years, what we have to decide is if we can find a way to work through it better and sustain the relationship happily.

Did you b/u?

[SlyQQ]

If you ever see them when they have been utterly totally abandondened ( you will have to be completely out of the picture for this ) an all there plans and machinations to the contrary have come to nought they have an epihany it doesnt last for long because of there memory impairment but they do have them ( and then promptly forget or end it )

[JRT]

so despite completely breaking down, alone and without any recourse, they come to the conclusion that it is they that are the problem. that they let go of and damaged good people in the process and then they forget it?

[SlyQQ]

All the false bravado is stripped away there is just them an there worst nightmare (themselves ) with no one else to turn to they will look at what brought them to that point an despair then depending how scared they are might try an pick themselves up an carry on i have seen this indirectly ( know the circumstances an someone reported to me what it was like ) once an directly ( via phone i was thousands of miles away in another country ( two different people ) once, but even this doesnt change them long term it is something they likely have already lived through once when they were to young to comprehend it

[JRT]

one would think that at that point they would conclude that they have come to the end of the road... .that at that point SOMETHING must change.

Even though I have not spoken with mine at all, I have heard that she is seeing a T and she did so on her own volition.

[Restored2]

Hey JRT.  Your earlier post stated; "It makes me sound like a bad guy, but it helps me to know that she is having a hard time and struggling with this just as badly as I am. Maybe I also have a problem for thinking this, I am not sure, but it makes me feel better."  I think this is a natural response to someone who is continuing to inflict pain upon you, without them showing any empathy towards you whatsoever.  We want them to feel what we feel, in hopes of them stopping the pain.  I can totally relate, despite dearly loving and caring about my ex-girlfriend.  It's really about wanting them to feel the painful loss and void of the separation at some level, as their cold cut off behavior says otherwise.  So you're not a "bad guy" for thinking this way.

[SlyQQ]

It doesnt change them because a lot of it is hard wired in the first case it probably helped her a lot but it wasnt obvious it took a long time to manifest ( return to old behaviours but with realization she needed to look at other options as well (just in case )) in the second case they were too young to hold on to what had happened lost the motivation to change an fell back in to old patterns

[JRT]

Hey JRT.  Your earlier post stated; "It makes me sound like a bad guy, but it helps me to know that she is having a hard time and struggling with this just as badly as I am. Maybe I also have a problem for thinking this, I am not sure, but it makes me feel better."  I think this is a natural response to someone who is continuing to inflict pain upon you, without them showing any empathy towards you whatsoever.  We want them to feel what we feel, in hopes of the pain stopping.  I can totally relate, despite dearly loving and caring about my ex-girlfriend.  It's really about wanting them to feel the painful loss and void of the separation at some level, as their cold cut off behavior says otherwise.  So you're not a "bad guy" for thinking this way.

Thanks... .I really appreciate that!

[Restored2]

For sure, JRT.  We're all in this together.

[InATimeLapse]

Hi JRT,

Like you, I am doing my best to understand the thought process of this disorder as well.  I know that understanding it doesn't help much for the pain we're left with in the aftermath, but to me (and I think you as well) it seems like it would be easier to let go or forgive or whatever if we actually knew the ways they 'tick' and what might happen if they change their minds and reestablish contact.  I get it.

I've been doing quite a bit of research around theoretical and clinical approaches for treating BPD in order to get a glimpse at the moving parts in their minds.  So far I have achieved a glimpse of it, a very small glimpse.  And you know what?  Knowing that anybody in this world, let alone the woman I fell in love with, has those things going on in her mind hurts me *so* *so* much.

In many ways I feel like the pain that I experienced throughout the relationship and during the breakup was kind of like a rough imprint of the constant turmoil that had churning in her mind every hour of every day for many years.  The process of healing is very time-consuming and requires a lot of courage on their part because there are a lot of deep-seated things driving this complex system.

I've read in other posts that you've wondered if perhaps your ex-girlfriend was not BPD based on the fact that there wasn't emotional/verbal abuse and that she didn't create drama and chaos like other people suffering from BPD.  But consider for a moment that perhaps she never felt she had 'permission' to be angry about very real things she *should* have been angry about.  If that's true, it appears that her bottling up her emotions and never allowing herself to express them is actually a *worse* place to be - because it takes an already bad problem (BPD) and compounds it by not having *any* way to release *any* pressure that had been pushed away, built-up, and had festered and compounded over time.  Whether there's a pressure gauge you could've read or not, the pressure grew until things ruptured.

What has helped me the most to cope with the loss of my lover and companion is the understanding that 1) she didn't ask for the circumstances in her life that led to her adopting maladaptive coping mechanisms and having a general fear of vulnerability and abandonment, 2) as far as I know she is seeking treatment, which means someday she will be released from this curse and finally know what living a life of inner peace feels like (and knowing that the person I love may achieve that, even if I never see her again, brings me peace to the part of my heart that hurts for her having to live each day with the very real and unbelievably difficult struggles she faces - that nobody truly sees or would ever guess would be happening even being as close as having a deeply intimate relationship with her), and 3) as hard as it is for me to accept sometimes, I do believe that she did her very best to be a good partner to me given the difficult, and non-obvious circumstances of having to cope with the constant churning and mental anguish she had been experiencing, and I believe that the hurtful things she said to me were merely projections of the constant torment she puts herself through All The Time.  

With these things I find it easier and easier to reach acceptance.  

You see, the way I embrace healing from this pain is through compassion and love.  My pain will subside and soon enough I will be back to the confident person that's overflowing with love that I was when I met her.  It may take her much, much longer through the process of therapy and personal healing to find that kind of inner peace, and knowing that both breaks my heart for what is real for her now and also gives me hope for her future - that she will someday be healed; finally freed from the curse that seemed to have stolen from her the goodness of me, and what could have been our wonderful, peaceful, loving, and happy future together.

I hope this helps, at least a little bit.  Hopefully you will find peace soon too.

[JRT]

I am surprised at myself that I have not at all wept during this entire ordeal... .but your post brought me as close to it as I think that I will ever get... .thank you for your post most kindly

Yes I understand that this best describes her and I have considered the likelihood that her silent suffering and internalizing of anger only compounded her misery and torture... .but I also charge that she had every opportunity to seek help, not obscure what had happened in her other relationships, and other factors that offset my sympathy for her... .it helps to humanize her in this way and feel compassion (which I am not without), but knowing that that the man that just shot me had some demons that he had wrestled with all of his life and was expressing his rage doesn't stop the bleeding, make the bullet go away and not leave a scar (and he wasn't ever engaged to me!).

I see that side of things and understand, but I also feel that mine (as much as she can pick up the phone and call the police... ,.or she can call all 35 of her friends and family and demand that they unfriend me on FB), could have put something on paper, or an email or through an intermediary that could have at LEAST explained her thinking about why she did what she did and why she felt that we could not continue our relationship even if it was incoherent.

I guess that there is a limit to my sympathy especially when it is counterbalanced by bad behavior.

[enlighten me]

I have also hoped for this epiphany moment where they give me the closure by admitting to their behaviour. Unfortnately this will never happen because even if they realise what theyve done the guilt and shame will always prevent them from contacting you about it.

I believe that they have these epiphanies all the time and this is what drives their behaviour. Weve all read many times where a pwBPD has said that they dont want to hurt yheir SO.  The closest my exgf got was to say that she knows she is hard work.

What I realised is that the main reason I want this to happen is to appease my ego.

[icom]

Yes.

  One night, in a fit of drunken despair, I sent her a seething email, broiling in recriminations.  I truly had reached the limit of my endurance, and desperately wanted out.

  The next morning she called asking if we could get together later that week to talk.

  What came next stunned me: she apologized.  She explained to me the reasons why she felt the need to behave the way she did.  She told me about the difficulties she had experienced in her life, and the once taboo subject of her troubling childhood was covered in depth. 

  We spoke for four hours, leaving no stone unturned, as we examined all the peculiarities that occurred during our time together. 

  However I think that I am the exception in this instance, as this frank exchange is not the norm when one is dealing with BPD. 

[enlighten me]

Icom I am so pleased you got that and a little jealous. It seems you got the answers so many of us want but will never get. The elusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[Terrychango]

Icom I am so pleased you got that and a little jealous. It seems you got the answers so many of us want but will never get. The elusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I sort of got the answers about 3 months into my relationship, you say it is a pot of gold but it can also be a curse. She told me why she had her issues and BPD (childhood abuse) and i thought i could be her 'white knight' so to speak.

That didn't work, I should have researched BPD ( I have just started now) and maybe I would have looked after myself, I got so stressed then when I got drunk one time i vented, 1 month later she left me, I now realise that is why she ran from me, she lost trust and thought I would be angry every time I drunk any alcohol.

I realise I should not have let her treat me as she did but I also realise that if I ever go back I have to think about myself a lot more and not get so drawn in by her issues.

The other question is the appology a true reflection of how she feels or just another way to try to get you back?

[Hawk Ridge]

Inatimelapse, your discussion/analysis of her epiphany provided me with an epiphany... .several in fact.  Thank you for the tools

[JRT]

so did your relationships continue afterwards or not... .wondering if these were seminal moments to repairing them and moving forward.

[Terrychango]

No, Mine ended a month ago for the 1st time.

If she does come back I think I would try again but differently (If she is also willing to do so). I would only try again once though, I hate NC and it is driving me mad! I really do feel like going round to her house and raging at her today.

I am actually in contact with one of her exes at the moment to find out whether she recycles and how long it takes. (she is still freinds with the ex but the ex lives abroad)

[JRT]

Let us know what happens... .stay tough during no contact... .