Strategies for getting BACK a pwBPD

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Most here , though experiencing the pain of a toxic relationship and break up are are quite relieved that their pwBPD is on the way out of their life. This may be true for me as well. However, my relationship was not characterized by the lies, acrimony, infidelity and chaos that seems to define almost all of them. My fiance of 2 years did a sudden disappearing act from out of the blue and blocked all forms of contact.

My situation might be impossible, but what if someone else had at least LC available. Besides NC, is there a strategy that has worked? Perhaps for closure or maybe there was a possibility for salvation?

[JRT]

Most here , though experiencing the pain of a toxic relationship and break up are are quite relieved that their pwBPD is on the way out of their life. This may be true for me as well. However, my relationship was not characterized by the lies, acrimony, infidelity and chaos that seems to define almost all of them. My fiance of 2 years did a sudden disappearing act from out of the blue and blocked all forms of contact.

My situation might be impossible, but what if someone else had at least LC available. Besides NC, is there a strategy that has worked? Perhaps for closure or maybe there was a possibility for salvation?

[Hawk Ridge]

I am not sure if I can say it worked but it has been what I have chosen to do.  I am friend's with my exes family and our mutual friends.  We all live almost 2 hours away from each other.  I have maintained low contact with my ex and regular contact with her family, ensuring I use the social graces of notifying her when I am visiting her mom.  I have zero contact woth her with my replacement is in town.  I do that for my sanity.  I also initiate very little contact. As such, she has reached out to me.  We both love her mother, family, and our friends a freat deal so that commonality has helped because I have ensured i have taken the high road, not disrespecting her at all. I don't live there and our relationship was me travelling to see her on weekends.  It's 10 months out and more better days occur than bad.  She reaches out once in a while.  She told me recently she wasn't "right in the head."  While i could feel my old caretaking coming in, i validated and was supportive while keeping a distance.  My heart still hurts that she is stillmwith my replacement but it is less so.  Oh, and I keep my love life, my private life private from her so she can't belittle or hurt me like she did.  Is it like my other friendships? No but i couldn't live with myseld if I couldn't have forgiveness in a relationship that was more than romantic... .we were family friends since we were kids.  Also, it became less painful starting in December, 9 months after she left and several months after therapy for me.  Anyway, it's my ongoing story of LC.  Good luck!

[BlackHoleSun]

Hey JRT! Having read some of your recent posts, i'm starting to get the impression that you'd maybe like to try and find some way of getting your ex to come back, even if its only to get some answers. Is that the case?

Its sad to say but, just as with most relationships, once someone has decided its over and they're leaving then, there's nothing you can really do. You can try reaching out with a single phonecall, a text, an e-mail, etc. If there's a negative response, or no response at all... .its finished. Its time to walk away.

As i've said elsewhere, the only real thing that brings a person with BPD back to you is their NEEDS. Its all about them! So long as they need you, you'll be kept around. When they don't need you, well they'll be happy to vanish on you in a heartbeat! If the relationship doesn't end too badly, and the BPD person feels they can get back from it so to speak, then they'll return, if and when they need you again.

Now, one thing you can ask yourself is... .did your exGF keep in touch with her exBFs, maybe had them on Facebook or other social media sites? This is very common for people with BPD/NPD. They can keep tabs on their exs, at the same time as using them as a form of Narcissistic supply. If this IS the case with regards to your exGF then, there's a very high chance she'll try to get in touch with you, in some form or another, in the long run.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi JRT,

For a very long time my bf had LC with me. I primarily initiated contact for a very long time. When I initiated contact sometimes, it would trigger him. In the beginning, when I did contact him, I kept it to texting simple "non triggering" things. If I mentioned anything that was related to feelings/emotions, he would get triggered; end of conversation.

I started to pull back and gave him the opportunity to contact me. During this time, I focused and worked on myself. I healed a bit and started improving my life.  As soon as I started to do this, I started receiving more phone calls/texts. It is true for anyone, you tend to be more appealing or attractive to another person if you are in a good place mentally/physically. It is a win-win situation. 

[JRT]

BHO... .yes... .I would like to at least achieve some closure with her... .I didn't, however, suffer the same way that others did in their relationship and, cannot be 100% certain that she is even a BPD or otherwise... .regardless, everything that is good in my life I can trace back to hope and hard work... .have there been failure? Yes, but in each of those cases i made every possible effort to achieve success in the endeavor before the situation defeated me - I do not quit, ever. In this way, I go to sleep at night feeling that I have the moral high ground and that I do the right thing. Thats just the way that I function... .its a liability when you dated someone with a PD, .

@Eagles... .thanks for the advice... .she has me blocked in every possible way of contacting her and a call to her from an unblocked hotel phone at xmas was answered by a call from the cops... .if past recycles are any indication of her behavior, there will be a point that she will contact me (or maybe not)... .I will remember your advice if it happens.

As I understand, she is seeing a therapist. God willing, she is honest and the T recognizes what her real problem is (I suspect that her complaint was about what ever I had done to manipulate her or such and such) so that they can make progress.

[shatra]

JRT

  "I would like to at least achieve some closure with her"=====

  Can you explain what you mean by closure?

Also, are you interested in resuming the relationship with her?

Shatra

[Ripped Heart]

I'm LC with mine at the moment JRT. Whether it's working or not I don't know but I do echo what Eagles said. When I would contact her, she would sigh as though it was an inconvenience but I backed off to work on my own issues and she contacts me daily. I will text her good night or good morning but leave the calling down to her.

Recently contact has become a little more often because she predicts what I'm up to and when she finds out I'm doing something else, it's like she isn't able to help herself. For example, for the past several months, leading up to December, my routine was work, home, talk to her or she would come up, sit watch TV, out for dinner occasionally, bed and repeat. I put myself on stand by in case she had an emergency and "needed" me.

Now, it's work, gym, out with friends, going away for the weekend, seeing family, time with the kids doing activities and just making the most out of life.

Her life is work, sleep, tv, sleep, facebook, sleep, eat, go to bed, work.

A couple of weeks ago she began mirroring me. Started at the gym with her friend, planned a trip away with a friend, buying a bike this week because I now have one. Gym has been stopped already, other friend is now concerned BPDgf can't pay for vacation, not enough money to buy the bike etc... .

My lifestyle is looking far more appealing to her right now which is why she got a little upset tonight that I spent the weekend in Paris and didn't take her with me.

[JRT]

JRT

  "I would like to at least achieve some closure with her"=====

  Can you explain what you mean by closure?

Also, are you interested in resuming the relationship with her?

Shatra

Sahtra... .my /r/s was a bit different than many you see here... .there was no acrimony or violence that paint most BPD relationships that I have learned about... .moreover, she left me suddenly and abruptly only 3 weeks after moving into my home and planning for our wedding began... .she blocked me from contacting her in every way you can think of and once when I called from a hotel line that was not blocked, she called the cops on me... .

I am left with only conjecture and not much else... .

Resuming a relationship? Probably not unless she does an impassioned sell job of which the world has not yet seen. But I have not completely eliminated it as a potential though it is likely to never happen. I have not heard from her in 4 months.

[BlackHoleSun]

BHO... .yes... .I would like to at least achieve some closure with her... .I didn't, however, suffer the same way that others did in their relationship and, cannot be 100% certain that she is even a BPD or otherwise... .regardless, everything that is good in my life I can trace back to hope and hard work... .have there been failure? Yes, but in each of those cases i made every possible effort to achieve success in the endeavor before the situation defeated me - I do not quit, ever. In this way, I go to sleep at night feeling that I have the moral high ground and that I do the right thing. Thats just the way that I function... .its a liability when you dated someone with a PD, .

Hey JRT! I'm assuming you've probably already checked this out but, here are the criteria for BPD... .

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive), and there must be no better explanation for them, e.g. physical illness, a different mental illness or substance misuse.

As you can see someone may be diagnosed with BPD, only if they meet SIX of those traits over an extended period of time. Does this match up with your exGF? Which of these criteria did she display?

The sad reality is there never really is any closure. Its a bit like me saying "i'm thinking of a number between 1 and 1000000. What is the number i'm thinking of"? Its impossible for you to know! Half of the time someone with BPD doesn't even know why they do the things they do. Even if they're self aware and can explain certain things to you, it still doesn't really make any sense to a rational mind. They just don't function in the way we do. Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was.     

[cloudten]

"Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was."

This has been me! I have literally been there. I thought I was freaking insane! I have never ever been this way over exes before... .just this one. After I figured out that he was uBPD, I thought I myself was BPD. I don't think so now that I am in here reading all of these posts and seeing myself in each and every one of them. But the obsession after the breakup is just as frustrating as the relationship itself. Neither one seem survivable. The grass seems greener either way. But I will say this- now that my uBPDbf and I are working toward back-together... .my hair is growing back, my stomach issues are gone, I have an appetite again, and I don't cry in a fetal position anymore.

JRT- I know you are heartbroken.  Find one thing that you love and delve into it. For my cousin it was cereal (no joke like always 20 different kinds of cereal in his cabinet), for someone else on here I saw photography. For myself it is the gym. Getting those endorphins up helps mind and body so much. Unfortunately I also really love wine... .and at times I have loved it too much. But make sure your one little thing is healthy.   Find one little piece of happiness for yourself.

[JRT]

BHO... .yes... .I would like to at least achieve some closure with her... .I didn't, however, suffer the same way that others did in their relationship and, cannot be 100% certain that she is even a BPD or otherwise... .regardless, everything that is good in my life I can trace back to hope and hard work... .have there been failure? Yes, but in each of those cases i made every possible effort to achieve success in the endeavor before the situation defeated me - I do not quit, ever. In this way, I go to sleep at night feeling that I have the moral high ground and that I do the right thing. Thats just the way that I function... .its a liability when you dated someone with a PD, .

Hey JRT! I'm assuming you've probably already checked this out but, here are the criteria for BPD... .

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive), and there must be no better explanation for them, e.g. physical illness, a different mental illness or substance misuse.

As you can see someone may be diagnosed with BPD, only if they meet SIX of those traits over an extended period of time. Does this match up with your exGF? Which of these criteria did she display?

The sad reality is there never really is any closure. Its a bit like me saying "i'm thinking of a number between 1 and 1000000. What is the number i'm thinking of"? Its impossible for you to know! Half of the time someone with BPD doesn't even know why they do the things they do. Even if they're self aware and can explain certain things to you, it still doesn't really make any sense to a rational mind. They just don't function in the way we do. Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was.     

She was a waif and internalized everything... .EVERYTHING. She was very careful what she let anyone hear, and I was the person most close to her! So, I would confirm almost all of the signs but its just an educated guess on my part. What goes along with my unprofessional diagnosis is the mountains of anecdotal evidence that I have come across here. Where there is smoke, there is associated fire.

As for closure, I believe that it is all relative. Having her give me an explanation of why she did what she did and a play by play on our relationship would be like winning the closure Lotto for me. An opportunity to give her a piece of my mind would be like winning the daily 5. Seeing her would  be like getting a free ticket from a scratch off. They would all provide a level of closure for me.

[JRT]

"Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was."

This has been me! I have literally been there. I thought I was freaking insane! I have never ever been this way over exes before... .just this one. After I figured out that he was uBPD, I thought I myself was BPD. I don't think so now that I am in here reading all of these posts and seeing myself in each and every one of them. But the obsession after the breakup is just as frustrating as the relationship itself. Neither one seem survivable. The grass seems greener either way. But I will say this- now that my uBPDbf and I are working toward back-together... .my hair is growing back, my stomach issues are gone, I have an appetite again, and I don't cry in a fetal position anymore.

JRT- I know you are heartbroken.  Find one thing that you love and delve into it. For my cousin it was cereal (no joke like always 20 different kinds of cereal in his cabinet), for someone else on here I saw photography. For myself it is the gym. Getting those endorphins up helps mind and body so much. Unfortunately I also really love wine... .and at times I have loved it too much. But make sure your one little thing is healthy.   Find one little piece of happiness for yourself.

Thanks greatly for your input cloud10... .,I turned the corner on my r/s in December through anger of all things... .right now, I am ambivalent about her; how can you easily stand in front of a freight train for someone on one day and then write them out of your life the next? All of my ex's still occupy a small place in my heart as will this one, but hers is diminishing over time.On the other hand, my brain (and now being joined by my heart) is saying, 'You better not!'.

I am actually the photographer, and musician, and parent, and runner; I have plenty of distractions but there is just something that lingers here... .something just isn't right... .not final. Maybe it s only trying to understand the non- understandable... .I also wonder if I am coming to these boards too much and if doing THAT is just opening thins up on a daily basis (though I have excellent understanding as a result).

[cloudten]

" I have plenty of distractions but there is just something that lingers here... .something just isn't right... .not final. Maybe it s only trying to understand the non- understandable... .I also wonder if I am coming to these boards too much and if doing THAT is just opening thins up on a daily basis (though I have excellent understanding as a result)."

All i know to say is I KNOW. I am there with you. Something isn't right, isn't final... .and it may never be right or final. But believe me when I tell you that when she comes back- talking to her and trying to understand or worst off recycling doesn't help you understand or make anything feel more final- not in my case anyway. It has only worsened everything.

I too think that coming on here, although I am learning a lot, is also contributing to re-opening my wounds. So- I am coming to these boards in moderation... .just like most things in life... .moderation.  I have a boss that is in psychotherapy every day... .and I think that must be exhausting for him- I see it in his face. He is intraspective too much... .and now its an obsession for him. I see that in myself when I come here too. So, I am going to save this place for the worst days, or when I need reassurance. But I took a few days off over the weekend and feel much better.

QUESTION!  I also have a daughter- how did your relationship affect your child (assuming the child was not the BPD's)? This is one area I am struggling with allowing the BPD back into my child's life.

[JRT]

" I have plenty of distractions but there is just something that lingers here... .something just isn't right... .not final. Maybe it s only trying to understand the non- understandable... .I also wonder if I am coming to these boards too much and if doing THAT is just opening thins up on a daily basis (though I have excellent understanding as a result)."

All i know to say is I KNOW. I am there with you. Something isn't right, isn't final... .and it may never be right or final. But believe me when I tell you that when she comes back- talking to her and trying to understand or worst off recycling doesn't help you understand or make anything feel more final- not in my case anyway. It has only worsened everything.

She has recycled me in the past, several times. If there is an attempt this time, I would be very specific about what conditions I will live under. The last attempts, I threw caution to the wind. Are you back with yours?

I too think that coming on here, although I am learning a lot, is also contributing to re-opening my wounds. So- I am coming to these boards in moderation... .just like most things in life... .moderation.  I have a boss that is in psychotherapy every day... .and I think that must be exhausting for him- I see it in his face. He is intraspective too much... .and now its an obsession for him. I see that in myself when I come here too. So, I am going to save this place for the worst days, or when I need reassurance. But I took a few days off over the weekend and feel much better.

I think that I need to do the same

QUESTION!  I also have a daughter- how did your relationship affect your child (assuming the child was not the BPD's)? This is one area I am struggling with allowing the BPD back into my child's life.

Frankly, it is one of the elements that I am most angry about. My daughters mom has not really been able to be the kind of mom that a lot of girls had wished for since she is ill with MS. So the shopping, and nail salons and even just girl advice has not been something that she could provide. Notwithstanding, she is not really the kind of woman that really likes to do that kind of stuff anyway. she was always a bit boring. With my BPD, my daughter really looked up to her. She wore cool clothes and did her hair really nicely and was kinda of hip. She would really become excited when she was around even if we were just doing every day kind of stuff. On those times that we arrived somplace with two cars, she usually took the option of driving with her. The bonded for sure.

I was away ion business when the b/u all went down. I called her to tell her what was happening and I heard a crying that I had never heard from her before: it was a deeply painful crying that I felt some overwhelmingly responsible for. She had her step dad drive to our house where she called me to say that everything was gone and I heard that crying again.

I had been divorced for 11 years. I dated here and there and had some long term relationships. My primary concern and desired quality was to find someone that would cause no harm to my daughter, I cast some many away for this reason. Not even that they would do harm, but not really any good. And here it was: I let the wolf into the hen house when my primary objective was to keep it out. I felt like I let her down in a big way.

After the b/u, she began to report that she felt sad and our of energy; depressed. Along the way, my ex who also blocked her on social media and contact (imagine what message THAT sent to a 15 year old without so much as an explanation, 'Your dad and I cannot see one another because____________". Around 2 months into the b/u, she reconnected with her on pintrest and sent her an innocuous pin related to Halloween... .I can't tell you how enraged I was that she did this.

It was pretty clear that she gave little if any thought to how her actions would affect my daughter and my offense at this has, actualy, helped me to push her out. My daughter is in therapy as a result and it looks like this is just a bit of a bump in her life. Thank GOD!

Yours? Is she ok?

[Hawk Ridge]

This is worthy of a new thread, BPD's impact in step children. I had wondered.  My expwBPD had expectations of perfectionism for the children in the relationship before ours.  She is now with someone who has many children, 2 in high school, and a grandchild.  My ex is a child herself in terms of her selfishness, extreme moods, and silent treatment.  She admitted she withdrew frim the stepkids in her prior relationship when those kids didn't meet her standards of perfectionism.  My hands shook as I tried to meet those standards. I wonder how the kids in the current relationship are doing.

[Restored2]

cloudten: 

Your below quote:

"But I will say this- now that my uBPDbf and I are working toward back-together... .my hair is growing back, my stomach issues are gone, I have an appetite again, and I don't cry in a fetal position anymore."

I am curious what resulted in you both working towards getting back together?  Did someone break NC?

[jo19854]

JRT, I wish i could help you with advice.

I tried everything, short email, low emotional content email, not emailing for 5 months and then made a short one, i never got any reply.

Today a good friend of me and my wife emailed my wife. She worries about me. She asked me longer time ago if it was ok to do it, but i said to just let it be. Now she did it and actually I am ok with it, the contence was about whats going around here and how they witness me. I don't know if it will help or trigger. Nothing worked until now so what can be lost.

My profile describes enough, its not us, its them. The sudden change and coldness is just something a normal brain cannot process. I do know how it feels to not know anything, kicked in the dirt like trash. The flasbacks, the missing, the ungrateful and unfair treatment, the why's and self-questioning "what did i do wrong? "

The problem that some people around us simply cannot comprehend, certainly not when months go by. The rollercaoster of grief, mixed emotions, despair and hope. The well meant advice that brings us in isolation. Remarks like "Its time to get over it, shes not worth it, if it was my wife then... ."

Don't blame them, they maybe understand but cannot comprehend.

Keep posting because we all care and know how it feels. Time will tell. Sad for us, because we care and thats why we suffer more than we deserve. We are victims of unconditional love for someone who is worth it and at the same time deserves to drown in the sh... .t they create themselves.

BlackHoleSun; i read your summary and for me its a constant question of what it is with her. Also because she mentioned PTSD (I don't even know if it was selfdiagnosed) But i recognise a lot and i know there is overlap.

Thanks for your info. It helps me

[eyvindr]

Hi JRT --

Sorry you're going through this, man.

@Eagles... .thanks for the advice... .she has me blocked in every possible way of contacting her and a call to her from an unblocked hotel phone at xmas was answered by a call from the cops... .if past recycles are any indication of her behavior, there will be a point that she will contact me (or maybe not)... .I will remember your advice if it happens.

As I understand, she is seeing a therapist. God willing, she is honest and the T recognizes what her real problem is (I suspect that her complaint was about what ever I had done to manipulate her or such and such) so that they can make progress.

I've been there. I feel ya. In my case, I finally got to the point of accepting that, sure -- we could reconcile but, no -- nothing would be any different. So, the question I had to ask and answer for myself was this: "Would spending my life in misery, our of love for this person, be worse than spending my life without the misery involved in spending life with this person?"

To me, the loud and clear answer was yes -- it wouldn't be the life I want, and deserve, and I'm no obligated by love or anything else to compromise on that. So I left.

In your case, I would only remind you, as if you need to hear it -- she left you, she blocked you, and when you tried to call her, she made a complaint about you to law enforcement. If and when you do get her back, you are likely to get back all of that, too. Just something to consider.

Hang in there.

[JRT]

This is worthy of a new thread, BPD's impact in step children. I had wondered.  My expwBPD had expectations of perfectionism for the children in the relationship before ours.  She is now with someone who has many children, 2 in high school, and a grandchild.  My ex is a child herself in terms of her selfishness, extreme moods, and silent treatment.  She admitted she withdrew frim the stepkids in her prior relationship when those kids didn't meet her standards of perfectionism.  My hands shook as I tried to meet those standards. I wonder how the kids in the current relationship are doing.

It probably would be a good thread... .my ex step son is a real mess... .its hard to be not angry at him since he is the most self-centered and obnoxious ___hole you will ever meet, but knowing that she created him makes me feel sorry for him more than anything else. A very intelligent, even charming, kid that barely passed a special ed sort of high school and is so obnoxious, he is unable to keep a single friend or hold down a job for any longer that 2 or 3 weeks before they let him go. Its sad: the best that he will do is some BS job (his only hope is one that he can work on his own, isolated with little complexity in expectation. A waste of a bright mind), where he lives at home with mom until old age or some kind halfway house.

The cycle move on to a new generation.  

[JRT]

Hi JRT --

Sorry you're going through this, man.

@Eagles... .thanks for the advice... .she has me blocked in every possible way of contacting her and a call to her from an unblocked hotel phone at xmas was answered by a call from the cops... .if past recycles are any indication of her behavior, there will be a point that she will contact me (or maybe not)... .I will remember your advice if it happens.

As I understand, she is seeing a therapist. God willing, she is honest and the T recognizes what her real problem is (I suspect that her complaint was about what ever I had done to manipulate her or such and such) so that they can make progress.

I've been there. I feel ya. In my case, I finally got to the point of accepting that, sure -- we could reconcile but, no -- nothing would be any different. So, the question I had to ask and answer for myself was this: "Would spending my life in misery, our of love for this person, be worse than spending my life without the misery involved in spending life with this person?"

To me, the loud and clear answer was yes -- it wouldn't be the life I want, and deserve, and I'm no obligated by love or anything else to compromise on that. So I left.

In your case, I would only remind you, as if you need to hear it -- she left you, she blocked you, and when you tried to call her, she made a complaint about you to law enforcement. If and when you do get her back, you are likely to get back all of that, too. Just something to consider.

Hang in there.

Yeah... .I know... .sigh

[cloudten]

This child topic is definitely worthy of a new thread... .absolutely!

I am on a recycle now- reluctantly. I keep trying to find a reason to not be in this... .but right now I am waiting for the other shoe to drop so I have an excuse out.  I know it will drop eventually- it always does.  to answer Restored- We both broke NC. We have never really gone more than 4 weeks in the last 2.5 years without talking to each other. But I will say, some of the 4 weeks, I was just starting to feel that freedom and fresh air when he would break NC. But I love him so desperately and deeply. I do realize that I am at least partially co-dependent, but I also know that I have loved him like no one else... .so unconditionally.

My daughter is nearly 6 and has known my BPD since she was 3 (I was married before to someone with horrible ADHD, and that man is her dad. He is a great dad... .and no he does not like my BPD one bit). She knows something isn't right with him. When she was 4 she said "mom, sometimes I like him and sometimes I don't"... .which pretty much sums it up! She adores him though, just as I do. He told me last night that she whispered in his ear "I want you to be my dad" which she has told me as well. Which is heartbreaking for me because I just don't think he is capable of being that person.

As it is, regardless of the BPD, we are having issues with my daughter behaving in school. She does have a spring birthday and is young for kindergarten, but the school thinks she is not ready behavior-wise for 1st grade. They have a great pre-1 program we are considering for her.  BUT- my BPD thinks this is his chance to save the day and give advice on our parenting. He has no children of his own and knows nothing about being a father. This morning, I literally got a text from him "I wasn't active in my opinions and now I'm much more straight forward with you and her. Mr. *** isn't nice to kids who refuse to listen."  

Any normal person, I wouldn't be scared about this remark, but it has really given me pause this morning. Do I really want him disciplining my daughter?  She is such a kind, warm, caring soul with EMPATHY... .yes she is having behavior problems... .but i do not think he is the one I want saving-the-day. He has destroyed me with words and actions... .I don't want or need him doing that to my daughter as well.  So today is a whole new perspective on things... .I had been tentative on letting him into her life before. One of his chief complaints was that I wouldn't let him be a part of things. And now I have tried to let him be part of things, and having major second thoughts.

So, JRT, the thoughts on what your daughter has been through, now in therapy for, is alarming.  I do not want my daughter destroyed the way he has destroyed me. soo much to think about! Sometimes it is overwhelming. But my first and foremost responsibility is to protect my daughter. That's one of the reasons I got divorced- was to protect her from another liar and cheater. So yes, I have let a wolf into the hen house as well.

I just hurt so badly- for everyone involved in all this ___ed up stuff. I hurt for everyone here. I hurt for our children. I hurt for the BPDs... .I am sure they don't want it- and frankly don't know any different because they have always been that way. I truly hurt that I am not the only person to go thru this. truly. I hurt for my BPDs ex-girlfriends too. I know the last one is suffering from PTSD too.

I suppose I need to trust myself. My instinct has always been not to let him in my daughter's life... .and not to introduce him to my family. Come on ME... .why can't I listen to ME? My head is watching my heart throw itself off a cliff.

Thank you for sharing what you did about your daughter! The effects of these people in their life and effects of them out of their life is truly concerning.

[JRT]

Most welcome... .I hope it helps in some way... .

Let me know if someone starts a new thread... .the story of her son is almost something that is unbelievable!

[BlackHoleSun]

BHO... .yes... .I would like to at least achieve some closure with her... .I didn't, however, suffer the same way that others did in their relationship and, cannot be 100% certain that she is even a BPD or otherwise... .regardless, everything that is good in my life I can trace back to hope and hard work... .have there been failure? Yes, but in each of those cases i made every possible effort to achieve success in the endeavor before the situation defeated me - I do not quit, ever. In this way, I go to sleep at night feeling that I have the moral high ground and that I do the right thing. Thats just the way that I function... .its a liability when you dated someone with a PD, .

Hey JRT! I'm assuming you've probably already checked this out but, here are the criteria for BPD... .

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive), and there must be no better explanation for them, e.g. physical illness, a different mental illness or substance misuse.

As you can see someone may be diagnosed with BPD, only if they meet SIX of those traits over an extended period of time. Does this match up with your exGF? Which of these criteria did she display?

The sad reality is there never really is any closure. Its a bit like me saying "i'm thinking of a number between 1 and 1000000. What is the number i'm thinking of"? Its impossible for you to know! Half of the time someone with BPD doesn't even know why they do the things they do. Even if they're self aware and can explain certain things to you, it still doesn't really make any sense to a rational mind. They just don't function in the way we do. Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was.     

She was a waif and internalized everything... .EVERYTHING. She was very careful what she let anyone hear, and I was the person most close to her! So, I would confirm almost all of the signs but its just an educated guess on my part. What goes along with my unprofessional diagnosis is the mountains of anecdotal evidence that I have come across here. Where there is smoke, there is associated fire.

As for closure, I believe that it is all relative. Having her give me an explanation of why she did what she did and a play by play on our relationship would be like winning the closure Lotto for me. An opportunity to give her a piece of my mind would be like winning the daily 5. Seeing her would  be like getting a free ticket from a scratch off. They would all provide a level of closure for me.

Not having a go and again, i don't mean any offence by questioning you but, i was hoping you might go into more detail with the criteria she matched up with. You were saying that you were unsure if your exGF had BPD? Again, 6 of those symptoms, held over a long period of time, need to be met in order to be diagnosed with the disorder.

My exGF met all of those symptoms, over many years. As do all of the people i know that have BPD. Is there any chance you can go into a bit more detail? Maybe there'd be a better chance of helping you out a bit then. From what you say, if she moved in with you then suddenly vanished 3 weeks later, whether it was BPD or not, she certainly seemed to be suffering from some kind of engulfment issue.

[JRT]

At first, I felt that she was an ACOA where she definitely demonstrated those symptoms in her day to day life. But the way that she broke up and the aftermath had vexed me. That is how I needed up here, its the only thing that makes sense and the way that she did it lines up.


Although she never went into detail about what her thoughts were To her, no one ever cared anyway, so why bother talking about them?) and I also think that she was so desperate for a successful relationship, that she wanted to keep her thoughts to herself for fear that exposing them would hasten the inevitable abandonment... .but she left enough information about her childhood and other elements that allowed me to connects all of the dots. Some of the characteristics are indisputable such as #2, while others are directly supported by statements or her behaviors 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (I think the b/u qualifies though she DID rage at her son in very inappropriate ways... .I almost felt that she hated him) ad 8... .#5 not at all. But even some of these characteristics were not overwhelmingly dominant. Its hard to say since she kept things locked up... .I mean, how can I make the call on #1 unless she tells me directly?

[BlackHoleSun]

BlackHoleSun; i read your summary and for me its a constant question of what it is with her. Also because she mentioned PTSD (I don't even know if it was selfdiagnosed) But i recognise a lot and i know there is overlap.

Thanks for your info. It helps me

For me its very easy to see what was wrong with my exGF as she clearly meets all of the criteria, over many years and also qualifies for being co-morbid NPD too.

I'm led to believe that there are quite a few Psychologists/Psychiatrists who use the term Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to describe Cluster Bs. I think its something along the lines of most disorders within the cluster Cluster B grouping actually overlap. So, instead of diagnosing people as BPD or NPD or HPD etc they would sooner use the diagnosis of CPTSD for them all, as the people suffering with the disorder/disorders, are all essentially suffering from the same thing - learnt behaviours and coping mechanisms, that they have in place, due to the repeated traumas they've encountered throughout their lives.  

[BlackHoleSun]

At first, I felt that she was an ACOA where she definitely demonstrated those symptoms in her day to day life. But the way that she broke up and the aftermath had vexed me. That is how I needed up here, its the only thing that makes sense and the way that she did it lines up.


Although she never went into detail about what her thoughts were To her, no one ever cared anyway, so why bother talking about them?) and I also think that she was so desperate for a successful relationship, that she wanted to keep her thoughts to herself for fear that exposing them would hasten the inevitable abandonment... .but she left enough information about her childhood and other elements that allowed me to connects all of the dots. Some of the characteristics are indisputable such as #2, while others are directly supported by statements or her behaviors 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (I think the b/u qualifies though she DID rage at her son in very inappropriate ways... .I almost felt that she hated him) ad 8... .#5 not at all. But even some of these characteristics were not overwhelmingly dominant. Its hard to say since she kept things locked up... .I mean, how can I make the call on #1 unless she tells me directly?

Is it possible for you to give some examples of the above? Did you actually see any of the behaviour listed in the DSM for BPD first hand? It could be that she may have had a different PD entirely, or she may just have certain traits and not actually qualify for a diagnosis.

I'll be honest, i just can't imagine having a "normal" relationship with someone suffering from BPD over an extended period of time, even if they're diagnosed and 40+.

[JRT]

I am not ruling out the possibility that she is another PD... .but as I read the accounts here, particularly as it relates to waifs, I see here pretty clearly. The biggest indication is how she left: out of the blue, suddenly, while I was away on business... .she sent me an angry text to never attempt to contact her even though there was no acrimony... .she blocked me from contact, blocked me on social media and painted me black to all of her family and friends with the goal of compelling them to unfriend me as well... .she has refused to speak with me at all o 4 months, with my attempts to subvert those blocks met with threats of legal action and a call from the cops with a stern warning... .I have confirmed that she stalks me on FB and had unblocked me on her phone at one point an then reblocked me... .so great is her aversion to any contact of any kind, not only is she willing to besmirch me legally, but ok with me destroying a large number of family heirlooms that she left at my home... .

Many other subtle signs such as leaving things here... .prior recycles... .too many to mention here. I was with her fro two years: I didn't know everything (obviously) but I knew enough. As far as her day to day persona, I knew enough to affirm all of the above that I had.

It sounds like what everyone is talking about here... .she just didn't rage like most do... .and she didn't go nuts keeping in contact with me... .AND it is very likely that she has a replacement: she tends to keep to herself between r/s's.

Hey, if its not BPD, I cool with that... .I would even say that I am relieved. But what would it then be?

[eyvindr]

Same here. I've tried. Based on my experiences, it comes down to determining whether you have the capacity to accept the behaviors associated with the disease as something you're willing to live with in your primary romantic r-ship, and then making a decision as to whether you want to do it, or hold out for something (and someone) less complex.

JRT -- no offense, but let's say, for discussion purposes, your ex only scores positive on items 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8 and isn't technically BPD. Are those things you want to live with?

[JRT]

I would rather try and fail than not try and wonder for the rest of my life: that to me is like prison. If it works, then I have everything to gain, if I lose and accept it as a lost cause, I can move on. I had no pain associated with her with the exception of the b/e's.

[Hazelrah]

I would rather try and fail than not try and wonder for the rest of my life: that to me is like prison. If it works, then I have everything to gain, if I lose and accept it as a lost cause, I can move on. I had no pain associated with her with the exception of the b/e's.

JRT,

This person has ended the relationship multiple times (followed by recycles up until this last disappearance).  Your most recent attempt at contacting her resulted in a call from the police. 

An honest question: How much harder do you want to try at this point?