Ever realize YOUR EX started resenting you long ago?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

“Ever realize YOUR EX started resenting you long ago?”

Yep.  May 2013 (15 months before she asked for a divorce).  My ex became obsessed with moving out of the town where I was working.  And while I made an effort, even had a few promising interviews, I never managed to land anything (all the while she quit every job except for the one where I was her boss, and made no effort to find work elsewhere).  It had become a point of contention between us, but not full blown resentment.  That is, until my secretary and her husband moved out of state.  Within her own mind, she had apparently been in direct competition with my secretary to see who would leave first (and to lose to someone she saw as less than her was unacceptable). 

Almost as soon as they left, the underlying resentment was apparent and the dynamic of our relationship shifted.  She spent more time away than at home over the last 15 months, becoming more distant and bitter with each extended leave.

In retrospect, this period of resentment may have been a blessing in disguise.  Though I wasn't consciously willing to accept the inevitable direction of the relationship at the time, I was able to begin processing my situation internally.  It allowed me a head start on the grieving and self-reflection process that I've continued since things finally went south.  I hate to think how bad of shape I would have been in had I not had this head start.

[ADecadeLost]

“Ever realize YOUR EX started resenting you long ago?”

Yep.  May 2013 (15 months before she asked for a divorce).  My ex became obsessed with moving out of the town where I was working.  And while I made an effort, even had a few promising interviews, I never managed to land anything (all the while she quit every job except for the one where I was her boss, and made no effort to find work elsewhere).  It had become a point of contention between us, but not full blown resentment.  That is, until my secretary and her husband moved out of state.  Within her own mind, she had apparently been in direct competition with my secretary to see who would leave first (and to lose to someone she saw as less than her was unacceptable). 

Almost as soon as they left, the underlying resentment was apparent and the dynamic of our relationship shifted.  She spent more time away than at home over the last 15 months, becoming more distant and bitter with each extended leave.

In retrospect, this period of resentment may have been a blessing in disguise.  Though I wasn't consciously willing to accept the inevitable direction of the relationship at the time, I was able to begin processing my situation internally.  It allowed me a head start on the grieving and self-reflection process that I've continued since things finally went south.  I hate to think how bad of shape I would have been in had I not had this head start.

[raisins3142]

I also don't really agree with the concept that the pwBPD was "never" really in the r-ship -- I don't think that's accurate. I think, like everything else on the BPD spectrum, it's always shifting, fluid, labile, fungible -- because they never really know where they "are" -- which is directly related to their lack of identity (ie, knowing "who" they are), they simply are wherever they are, emotionally. Or, better -- they are wherever their emotions are. It's generally not about you -- it's mostly about what they're feeling. So, they may be feeling disappointed -- and that's all they feel at the time. Then they feel mad. Then sad. Then angry. Then frightened. Then ashamed. Then mad. Then angry. Then depressed. Then you talk, and they feel calm. Then in love. Then scared. Then worried. Then sad. Then insecure. Then angry. It goes on and on -- and you're simply there. In the case of my ex, I really don't think she ever did anything intentionally to hurt me -- everything she did she did to cope with her own madness. A lot of it did hurt me, but that wasn't what she was trying to do -- she was just trying to survive, emotionally, to preserve whatever shards of joy she thought she'd found with me. In a big, sad way -- it wasn't personal. But she was there.

I agree with this.

BPDs are still individuals and lie along a spectrum.

So, it is useful to talk about specific BPD traits, but I don't think we should overgeneralize to the specific case.

My uBPDexgf wanted things to work, and I think she loved me in her own way, but there was a background of emotion that she was dealing with and that she hid from me.  I think she was aware enough to know that half the things she felt towards me had nothing to do with me and that these emotions she was having were potentially toxic to the relationship.

So, I knew some of her, but did not really know her that well inside and out.

She was often withdrawn, sullen, and quiet because she was disassociating or dealing with her feelings.  I think it gave her little resources left to expend upon us.

[eyvindr]

I think for many of the pwBPD in our respective lives, this is a true and compassionate statement:

She was often withdrawn, sullen, and quiet because she was disassociating or dealing with her feelings.  I think it gave her little resources left to expend upon us.

Thank you, raisins3142. Hope you're doing well.

[drummerboy]

I agree enlighten. My ex went into a very deep depression for 6 months after she dumped me so I disagree when some say they are not emotionally invested. Remember BPDs feel everything 1000% their love is on steroids and so is their hate.

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

[BorisAcusio]

I agree enlighten. My ex went into a very deep depression for 6 months after she dumped me so I disagree when some say they are not emotionally invested. Remember BPDs feel everything 1000% their love is on steroids and so is their hate.

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

There is an inclination to mistake emotional intensity for depth.

[enlighten me]

Boris I agree that the emotions felt by a pwBPD are different to ours. What my point is is that they do have feelings of loss and are capable of mourning the loss of a relationship. Yes it is a selfishness they display such as that of a child losing their favourite toy but it is a hurt that they feel.

I do not for one minute believe they are emotionally mature enough to have the depth of feeling we do.

As they are thinking of renaming BPD as emotional unstable dissorder this indicates that the underlying trait is their emotional instability as opposed to a lack of emotion. I feel that if a pwBPD was in a relationship and walked away without any feelings then their partner wasnt special to them. Havent we all been out with someone we werent that commited to? I know I have a couple of exs that when we split it didnt cause me any concern as I wasnt emotionally invested in them. It was more of something to do than looking for something serious.

[BorisAcusio]

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

PwBPD do not mourn the loss of an object. Their abandoment fear kicks in and they seek out a new supply.

Again I have to disagree. What you have to bear in mind is that they are emotionally trapped as a child.  I agree they do not mourn loss like we do. It is more self absorbed. If you think how devastated a child can be for their loss whether its a toy or a pet you will see how a pwBPD deals with loss. It is a case of "I will mever see/ play with... .again" "I will never do... .again" etc etc it is about what they are losing out on so even an object can be mourned by them.

Your observation is correct, it was referred to as "selfism" by Erkin, a tendency to regard most situations in an egocentric or selfish manner.

If they could work through abandonment depression then the disrtorted beleif system of the borderlines would not exist.

From Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism Otto F. Kernberg p. 35

Their depressive reactions take primitive forms of impotent rage and feelings of defeat by external forces, rather than mourning over good, lost objects and regret over their aggression toward themselves and others.

Reinforcing Kernberg's observation, Masterson in his book, Psychotherapy Of The Borderline Adult(p. 323)described the clinical experience of how a patient avoided mourning following the death of her daughter, using primite defense mechanisms instead.


It all depends on what meaning we assign to the term. We could say they experience a pathological form of mourning, according to Marsha Linehant [they]automatically inhibit the process by avoiding or distracting themselves from the relevant cues.

[peace_seeker]

I agree enlighten. My ex went into a very deep depression for 6 months after she dumped me so I disagree when some say they are not emotionally invested. Remember BPDs feel everything 1000% their love is on steroids and so is their hate.

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

I agree on this. I believe they do invest emotionally as well. It's just very unfortunate that they are just unable to sustain the relationship due to their own issues.

My counsellor told me that the main difference b/w a BPD vs NPD is that BPD do connect emotionally, it's just that they tend to withdraw after some issues. But NPD do not connect emotionally.

[jhkbuzz]

I hate to think that I should change my values because I was involved with a disordered person.  I would rather keep my values and do a better job of choosing someone who shares my values.

I don't think that changing the rule to 'stick with a relationship as long as the other person is working to fix it too' doesn't change the fundamental belief there IMO, but does give you an out other than tearing your soul into pieces if you find yourself in a relationship with someone who can't or won't deal with the reality of what is happening. The problem with 'choosing someone who shares my values' is that people with BPD (and some other issues) are good at appearing to share your values until you've made a commitment, and sometimes people change over time. Staying in a toxic relationship with someone who won't work to fix it does no one any good, and I don't consider pointless self-destruction an actual virtue.

That's a very good angle to consider the question from.

[Leaving]

Hi leaving

He sounds like he has pscopathic traits. Could yhis be the case?

I recently watched a program on psycopaths and what struck me was how many there were. In the program they interviewed a British football player who has openly admited to being high on  psycopathic scoring. He said that he couldnt understand emotions and when their team won the biggest competition in English football he felt like a bystander. While his team mates where running around celebrating he just stood there as he couldnt understand their elatipn. He said growing up he had to behave how he thought people wanted him to not how he felt.

Hi Enlighten,

No, he's not a psychopath even though in the beginning I often wondered if he was.  He does have sociopathic traits but different character disorders often share common traits which makes it difficult for clinicians to make an accurate diagnosis- especially since these people never seek help on their own.  Psychopaths are narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths. Schizoid personality disorder shares similar traits with the P but they aren't P's. A P doesn't have a conscience.  Sociopaths often assume other people's personality traits because they have no authentic self. Narcissists will do the same thing.  My therapist said that my husband behaves like a sociopath  but that he's too concerned with maintaining a good public image and does know the difference between right and wrong ( has a conscience but no integrity) and respects those boundaries relative to himself at work, with neighbors, etc... However, at home, he's a covert abusive passive aggressive child.  He would never hit me because that would be too obvious and get him into trouble but he does other things to undermine me and harm me and it's always an ' accident'. He never meant to do anything, never did anything intentionally.   Just to ' enlighten' you ( no pun intended), my husband was diagnosed last year as BPD/NPD with a dual diagnosis of addiction.   My husband's addictions vary - anything from sinus meds to exercise, work, food ( especially sugar), religions and more.  It's really bizarre to observe how he will replace one addiction with the other. He is always in a state of seeking pleasure- getting endorphins and stimulating his dopamine receptors.  There is a genetic component in his addiction and character disorder but his BPD/NPD is grounded in his early development and as you say, he's stuck there.  His father was a controlling micromanaging patriarch who used corporeal punishment and religion to control his family.  His mother was an only child who had no emotionally available mother ( her mother was an abused orphan and lived on medications her entire life) and so, she too has impaired emotional development and was unable to be emotionally available to her children.   My husband was never loved unconditionally, never loved or seen as an individual with unique needs,  and he was never allowed to express his anger or anything negative without being beaten.  Hence, passive-aggression.

My husband's covert abuse has been so damaging to our well-being and our finances.  His PA behavior  almost sent me to the looney bin.   But, it's the BPD that makes it impossible for us to communicate and for him to respond to therapy and therefore, we can't make any progress.  He's like two different people who oppose each other all the time- the good and the bad. I never know who I'm talking to in any given moment and I have to phrase my questions in several different ways in order to arrive at the truth in what he's telling me. It's exhausting.  He is an avid fisherman and he came to me last summer, crying tears and told me that he could never fish again because he knew it hurt the fish and disrupted their natural behavior. I didn't put much stock in his words because I figured he had watched something on TV or met someone he admired who said those things.  Sure enough, a week later, he received a new fishing pole from a customer who owned a big fishing company ( he manipulated the customer into giving him one)  and took that man and another person fishing. I commented that I thought he didn't want to fish and he blew up at me and made all sorts of crazy excuses.  C'est la vie with the BPD.  Everything is either good or bad and there is nothing in between.  He can't reason, can't be objective or logical and his underdeveloped ego is always on the defensive which means that he interprets anything said to him as an assault on him. One Christmas early in our marriage he was angry at his parents for not calling him and I suggested he call them and he said, ' Why should I call them, they never call me!" and I said, ' Well, try to put yourself in their shoes and understand that maybe they feel uncomfortable and insecure calling and interfering with your other plans' and he blew up at me in front of my family and said, ' I SEE HOW YOU ARE!  Whose side are you on!  It's just like you to take my mother's side!" and my mother tried to reason with him and calm him down but he couldn't get it and walked off in a huff angry at me.  Reasoning with a BPD is impossible because their thinking is so polarized.  He's always keeping score, always comparing everything in black and white.  When he was diagnosed with BPD he said to the therapist, so, if I have BPD then what does she have (ref to me). When we go into a store and I put something int he cart  he has to put something in the cart for himself.  He doesn't realize that I am buying for ' us' and only sees me having control and buying things for myself and accuses me of being selfish and spoiled. When I tell him that I would be glad for him to make the list and do the shopping, he backs down and says, ' You're right, you do everything perfect, you're perfect, you do it".   Ah, it's like shopping with a two year old.

Last year he began therapy with an intern who was not specialized or experienced enough to know what she was dealing with.  Oh my gosh Enlighten.  That's when I moved into a hotel because I truly felt like I was going to lose my mind. She knew he was PA so she began assertiveness training. My husband's splitting became very intense.  She turned him into an aggressive monster and I couldn't even get out of bed and walk into the kitchen without him verbally attacking me.  He began unloading all his anger toward his parents on me and accusing me of being abusive and neglecting him and then he would say, ' but you're great, you've been so good for us and good to me'.    He became obsessed with exercise, refused to eat ( anorectic) and became so thin that customers were concerned he was sick.  All the while he began lecturing me that I am fat and going to die from poor health.  At one point he became psychotic and he smeared feces on the freshly cleaned rug in our bathroom ( PA behavior) to punish me.  That's when I truly freaked out and called the woman's shelter for help.  They contacted his therapist and told her what was happening.  That's when they brought in the psychiatrist/specialist and he got a proper diagnosis.  I share this mainly because I want people to know that therapy with the wrong therapist can actually be dangerous to those living with someone with BPD.

Communication is so difficult because it's  truly like talking to Jeckyll and Hyde at the same time. He always splits during his conversations.  He opposes himself in the same sentence because he's unable to make a commitment or make an accurate and honest statement in the affirmative.   He will tell me he is going to do something and I'll arrange our schedule around his and then he will do something entirely different and never tell me- like saying he's going to do a certain job that day but then decides not to and I've made our schedule, contacted clients, etc... When I confront him about how his lack of communication creates problems in our business he accuses me of keeping him on a leash, controlling him and being abusive.  Having an adult discussion  with him, is impossible.  In one sentence he will say, ' I'm sick of that man, I'm going to fire him, I'm fed up with him but he's a good guy and I'll call him today and get him to do that job'  It's really sad to see him struggle so to 'find himself' but it made me feel psychotic and crazy.  He doesn't exist as a man of his own nature.  I can always tell when he's met a new customer or person because he will come home and mimic their likes, dislikes, beliefs, etc...  

Our employees would come to me and tell me that they could not work with him because he refused to train them, ignored them all day and treated them like he was angry at them. The problem was that he perceived them as a threat.  If a customer liked our employees or paid attention to them then  he would get jealous and think the customer hated him and want to quit working for them.  When any of our customers request that he do something different than he had planned, he dumps them and says they are horrible people, he hated working for them and that they were nothing but trouble.  He thrives on positive attention and it has to be ALL positive or else it's ALL bad.  He can't negotiate, compromise.  He hears and perceives everything through and relative to his defensive negative ego.

I was always between a rock and a hard place and I had to give up so much of my life, work, hobbies and passions in order to survive in this marriage.  Everything I did was a threat to him.  As a result, I ended up isolated, unemployed, no friends or family.  I never wanted to be his parent or the only adult in our home but I ended up in that role because he was such an irresponsible, erratic, oppositional child and someone had to take the reigns. Unfortunately, he resented my role and punished me all the time.  

Sorry to ramble so much.  I have trouble describing things in writing anymore and can be very wordy.

[eyvindr]

It's ok, Leaving.   I totally get it. If you've read any of my posts, I'm sure you've noticed I tend to do the same thing, and sometimes I'm self-conscious about it -- but even when I'm aware of it, and try not to ramble (not saying that you are, just commiserating with you), it happens, because trying to explain the absurd situations that we find ourselves in with these partners takes a lot of words. I know in my own case, I often feel like, without a lot of background and detail, anyone in their right mind would read half of what I post and thing, "wait, what? really? are you sure?... ."

They're complicated creatures!

Hang in there.

[Blimblam]

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

PwBPD do not mourn the loss of an object. Their abandoment fear kicks in and they seek out a new supply.

I think this is why we need to be carefull with sweeping generalizations.  It will depend on the situation.  What may often happen is a pwBPD experiences all I the mourning or what would be mourning durring the relationship but express it by raging or crying and dysregulation.  Then the the defence mechenisms kick in and compartmentalize and project untill we identify with their mourning and they can leave us with all of the pain.  It will depend on a number of variables but each situation is different.  Each pwBPD is also different the defence mechenisms are universal and the better we understand them and different schema modes the more sense it will make.

I think it comes down to differentiating between ego or external suffering vs. heart-centered internal suffering.  When we lose someone that we loved, we feel the loss of a whole person and an emotional relationship at a spiritual level that encompasses many dimensions of our human experience together.

Yes, they mourn objects because those objects validate them. The ego is resistant to change like when a spouse leaves but doesn't feel grief internally as heart break but more as a threat to their own survival. The ego is defensive, combative and competitive and driven to seek pleasure and avoid discomfort.  Egos react to pain and suffering by immediately replacing it with pleasure.

I can only base my perceptions of my husband on what I have observed in my own life and in others.  I've seen the most hardened heart grieve the loss of a loved one in some genuine observable way but I have not observed that in my husband or his parents.  I've only observed manufactured responses that resemble emotional grief only because he knows how to behave, with whom, when it's appropriate and he's only motivated to do that because he doesn't want to look like a bad person who doesn't care.  There is no heart or conscience in his behavior- only ego.  I always considered that some things in this life are just too painful for him to deal with so he avoids but that theory didn't hold up for long since I noticed how he could be two opposite people - a selfish unfeeling man who would turn on his emotions only to gain attention or sympathy from others.  You know the old saying, ' What would you do if no one was watching?' My husband is only a nice, ethical moral man when someone outside of our marriage is watching and could be judging him.  

I agree with you but it goes both ways.  The pwBPD validated us. We lost our narcisistic supply we lost our validating object. Except many of us stuck around for a while waiting for crumbs of validation or hoping because we loved them that they would comeback around. They often do come back around but it cycles and recycles around and around.

We were not just a validating object we were like their universe and they were our imaginary friend.

It's just that once the disorder is triggered we are no longer compatible with whatever new thing they have decided to attach to because that's their new universe.  

The pwBPDs sense of self is not autonomous their sense of self is the fantasy other imaginary friend role people have constructed as a part of the nons "false self."

Some of the pwBPD that have Npd or aspd comorbidities or traits will have a more autonomous "false self" construct.

[Blimblam]

But yea looking back I definately realize my ex began resenting me before the actual breakup. I stuck around becuase I figured she would come around.  I now recognize that is a pattern in my past trlationships where I hit this sort of blockage in the other person and I wait it out hoping they will open their eyes. I picked up this trait from my foo. Yay

[Technique]

I believe the moment she first started resenting me was when I figured out she wasn't the friendly and chirpy false self she tries so hard to illustrate to the world.

That, for me, was the beginning of the end.

Once they know you have their number, the game, and the relationship, is as good as cooked.

[eyvindr]

As much as I with it weren't true, I have to agree.

Once they know you have their number, the game, and the relationship, is as good as cooked.

Maybe more accurate would be that, as soon as they know we have their number, the gaming begins. Really, at that point, both parties would probably be best to cut their losses and move on -- but at that point, usually we've already boarded the BPD Train, and we're left wondering how we got on it, and where the next stop is.

As far as resentment, I felt that my ex had different categories of resentment. She resented that... .

• I caught on to the inconsistencies in words and actions.



• I could identify the patterns in her dysfunctional behavior and, eventually, some of the triggers.



• Once it was clear that she had issues, she couldn't blame all of the negative feelings that didn't fit anywhere else on me.



• I was able to manage my day-to-day life obligations, stresses and anxieties.



• I was healthier than her.



• I had more friends than her.



• I had a successful career and she didn't.



• I have good relationships with my FOO.



• I have more self-discipline.

I could go on, but even making the list feels mean-spirited -- not my intent. (Funny how so many pwBPD seem to relish this kind of exercise.) Thing is, we need to remember that BPD is a shame-based PD -- and B&W thinking is very readily applied to comparisons and judgement -- which triggers self-criticism, which causes psychic pain, which triggers dysfunctional coping mechanisms... .

[eyvindr]

Yep. Yay alright.

Hey. It's Friday.

[Leaving]

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

PwBPD do not mourn the loss of an object. Their abandoment fear kicks in and they seek out a new supply.

I think this is why we need to be carefull with sweeping generalizations.  It will depend on the situation.  What may often happen is a pwBPD experiences all I the mourning or what would be mourning durring the relationship but express it by raging or crying and dysregulation.  Then the the defence mechenisms kick in and compartmentalize and project untill we identify with their mourning and they can leave us with all of the pain.  It will depend on a number of variables but each situation is different.  Each pwBPD is also different the defence mechenisms are universal and the better we understand them and different schema modes the more sense it will make.

I think it comes down to differentiating between ego or external suffering vs. heart-centered internal suffering.  When we lose someone that we loved, we feel the loss of a whole person and an emotional relationship at a spiritual level that encompasses many dimensions of our human experience together.

Yes, they mourn objects because those objects validate them. The ego is resistant to change like when a spouse leaves but doesn't feel grief internally as heart break but more as a threat to their own survival. The ego is defensive, combative and competitive and driven to seek pleasure and avoid discomfort.  Egos react to pain and suffering by immediately replacing it with pleasure.

I can only base my perceptions of my husband on what I have observed in my own life and in others.  I've seen the most hardened heart grieve the loss of a loved one in some genuine observable way but I have not observed that in my husband or his parents.  I've only observed manufactured responses that resemble emotional grief only because he knows how to behave, with whom, when it's appropriate and he's only motivated to do that because he doesn't want to look like a bad person who doesn't care.  There is no heart or conscience in his behavior- only ego.  I always considered that some things in this life are just too painful for him to deal with so he avoids but that theory didn't hold up for long since I noticed how he could be two opposite people - a selfish unfeeling man who would turn on his emotions only to gain attention or sympathy from others.  You know the old saying, ' What would you do if no one was watching?' My husband is only a nice, ethical moral man when someone outside of our marriage is watching and could be judging him.  

I agree with you but it goes both ways.  The pwBPD validated us. We lost our narcisistic supply we lost our validating object. Except many of us stuck around for a while waiting for crumbs of validation or hoping because we loved them that they would comeback around. They often do come back around but it cycles and recycles around and around.

We were not just a validating object we were like their universe and they were our imaginary friend.

It's just that once the disorder is triggered we are no longer compatible with whatever new thing they have decided to attach to because that's their new universe.  

The pwBPDs sense of self is not autonomous their sense of self is the fantasy other imaginary friend role people have constructed as a part of the nons "false self."

Some of the pwBPD that have Npd or aspd comorbidities or traits will have a more autonomous "false self" construct.

  It's ironic that you wrote about their fantasy life and false self because I was just cleaning up some business photos and found over one hundred selfies and videos that my husband took of himself.  I couldn't believe my eyes.  He looks horribly evil in all the photos but maybe that's just my perception.  I think I just grossed out from watching him admire himself like he's in love with himself.  He is so full of himself all the time.  Every morning he would stand in front of his mirror for a half hour with his legs spread and his arms bowed out ... you know? Posturing like a puffed up gorilla and just stare at himself.   He was always selfish, self absorbed and 'off' but I didn't realize that his abnormal behavior was that pathological and chronic.  It's so easy to excuse and over-look abnormal behavior in the beginning of a relationship.  In my case, he never validated me and was not my narcissistic supply.  I never needed him and that in itself was a threat as much as a golden opportunity for him to use me.  I know I was codependent and therefore sought some validation in serving him, I suppose expecting that he would at some point appreciate my efforts but I never looked to him for any validation mainly because I didn't think I was worthy of any.   I think that comes from being raised by an NPD mother and therefore always being invisible.  I was taught to serve and expect nothing back which works great if I'm volunteering at the shelter soup kitchen but not in a marriage.  Relationships with narcissists are always ONE-WAY.  He never made me feel special or worthy or even alive and while I'm not one to seek external gratification and accolades it would have been nice to know that he cared about me and respected me as an individual and not just an extension of himself. I think I could have accepted him telling me that he wasn't happy with me and wanted to leave.  I get that.  But, he would never say that and would keep me on a roller coaster of push/pull and as awful as this may sound to you, I used to pray that he would find someone else that cared about him and would take care of him. It got to the point that I didn't want him in my life at all because I was suffering the repeated abuses day after day.  I simply couldn't afford to live with him and it was taking a serious toll on my health.

  I didn't marry him because I wanted or needed anyone in my life. I was successful and had my own business and was doing alright alone.  I know this may sound like a cop-out but it's the truth-  I married him because my NPD/BPD mother chewed me out for not wanting to marry him. My husband went to her and charmed her and told her he wanted to marry me. When she called me to tell me this, I told her that I didn't think he would be a good husband.  She said I was selfish, didn't want to be happy, didn't want to share my fortunate life and would be alone the rest of my life if I didn't give back by taking care of him. She told me that I should be more like Jenny in Forest Gump.   Oh gosh, I could kick myself for listening to her and internalizing all that nonsense.   In truth, she was my problem/issue and because of her, I ended up with my current husband and my brother ended up with a woman just like our mother. Both of us are now in the middle of divorce and it's been awful.  I believe that being with my husband served a very necessary purpose of helping me heal from my relationship with my mother.  Same for my brother. We've grown by leaps and bounds, are so much wiser and are aware of this disorder and all it encompasses and both of us are more or less estranged from our mother now. 

[Leaving]

It's ok, Leaving.   I totally get it. If you've read any of my posts, I'm sure you've noticed I tend to do the same thing, and sometimes I'm self-conscious about it -- but even when I'm aware of it, and try not to ramble (not saying that you are, just commiserating with you), it happens, because trying to explain the absurd situations that we find ourselves in with these partners takes a lot of words. I know in my own case, I often feel like, without a lot of background and detail, anyone in their right mind would read half of what I post and thing, "wait, what? really? are you sure?... ."

They're complicated creatures!

Hang in there.

Thank you for telling me that and understanding.   I feel so cognitively impaired these days.  Yes, it's very difficult trying to explain what the heck we go through.  That's why I quit trying for so many years and isolated from the rest of the world.  I still remain very quiet about it all and just write in my journal and talk to my counselor.  People just don't get it unless they've been through it and there is nothing worse than spilling your heart to someone and having them look at you like you're nuts or exaggerating.   

[eyvindr]

I know. Try to do something for yourself that you enjoy this weekend. The path may be rocky now, but it clears up eventually. Just keep yourself pointed in the right direction.

[Blimblam]

Leaving,

I can relate to what you said.  It's hard for me to admit because I struggled against the idea I was codependent and I still have trouble with the label.  But yeah your bf sounds like npd/BPD comorbid and I tend to struggle because I really can not stand people with NPD which is an issue I have been working on having a step mom on a subclinical level of npd but very narcisistic.  It's set a lot of patterns of self destruction in my life as well.

My poison of choice is the quiet borderline.  A very different breed in so many ways. 

It sounds like you've been making big steps in your therapy and in your process of self discovery. 

[Leaving]

I agree enlighten. My ex went into a very deep depression for 6 months after she dumped me so I disagree when some say they are not emotionally invested. Remember BPDs feel everything 1000% their love is on steroids and so is their hate.

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

Drummer, do you believe that she was invested in you or was she just suffering fear of being alone?  If you asked her what she was depressed about what do you think she would have said?   Like babies who are left sitting on a mat alone, they cry and cry until someone picks them up.  That person could be anyone and doesn't have to be their mom or dad. I think we sometimes assign grief to someone who is frightened, insecure and hates being alone. Some people need to be touched all the time.  I've seen people appear grief stricken but it had nothing to do with losing their beloved but more about fear,change and being alone. It's frightening for me to imagine being alone but I'm sure it's even more frightening for my husband.  He needs the presence of other people or he gets very anxious like somoene trying to quit smoking or drinking.   He can't even stand being alone for one day without some type of human contact. 

[Leaving]

Leaving,

I can relate to what you said.  It's hard for me to admit because I struggled against the idea I was codependent and I still have trouble with the label.  But yeah your bf sounds like npd/BPD comorbid and I tend to struggle because I really can not stand people with NPD which is an issue I have been working on having a step mom on a subclinical level of npd but very narcisistic.  It's set a lot of patterns of self destruction in my life as well.

My poison of choice is the quiet borderline.  A very different breed in so many ways. 

It sounds like you've been making big steps in your therapy and in your process of self discovery. 

I didn't know anything about BPD until a few years ago when my therapist mentioned that it sounded like my husband had it. She didn't go into great depth and I was still very unclear as to what it was.  I remember asking her if I should bring my husband in for joint therapy and she said that she thought my time was better spent trying to get strong and out of the relationship.  I feel as you do about N's.  I truly have such an aversion to them now.  When I think back on my relatioinships, there were a few of them and now I know that I'm an N-magnet or rather, was! 

I hope you are getting therapy with someone who specializes in N and can help you with your stepmother.  It's awful when a parent is an N. 

There are all sorts of levels of codependency. Dont' feel bad about that label. The world goes round because of codependent and interdependent relationships.  Most people would never know me as codependent.  I'm strong, independent, transparent, direct but when it comes to intimate/romantic relationships with men ( especially later in life) I felt that I should be there to help them achieve their dreams and neglected my own. It's complicated.  I was always told that I was very blessed, very fortunate, that everyone else was worse off than me. I know now why  my mother told me those things but her words really harmed my perception of myself relative to others. I worked hard to support my first husband through med school and I loved him dearly.  He loved me but my mother hated him and kept telling me that I was not his type... blah blah blah so, I divorced him.  Nonetheless, I should have never sacrificed my own dreams for his.   I've realized in recent months that I never had any dreams, no direction really because that part of me was never allowed to blossom.  I couldn't even imagine doing something just for myself.  Everything I did or had just sort of fell into my lap.  Not that I was given things.  I did make things happen but I didn't do it with any real passion.  It's very very difficult for me to be selfish.  Well, I must run.  I've got to get to a small concert and it's very cold.  Must warm up my car and hit the road!  Have a good evening.

[Blimblam]

I agree enlighten. My ex went into a very deep depression for 6 months after she dumped me so I disagree when some say they are not emotionally invested. Remember BPDs feel everything 1000% their love is on steroids and so is their hate.

Hi leaving

im afraid I have to disagree. Just because pwBPD dont invest emotionally the same way we do doesnt mean they dont emotionally invest. It is more of the emotional investment of a child to a parent. I can guarantee that thr majority of pwBPD feel the loss of a relationship. If it wasnt the case then why do so many on here get the backlash and abuse post break up. This is the response of a hurt child not of an emotionless being. I have also been informed of my ex wifes behaviour when we split up and that also was full of emotion for her loss even if never shown to me.

There are also many posts on sites for pwBPD that talk of them being upset by the break up.

The only personality type that wouldnt be affected is a psycopath.

Drummer, do you believe that she was invested in you or was she just suffering fear of being alone?  If you asked her what she was depressed about what do you think she would have said?   Like babies who are left sitting on a mat alone, they cry and cry until someone picks them up.  That person could be anyone and doesn't have to be their mom or dad. I think we sometimes assign grief to someone who is frightened, insecure and hates being alone. Some people need to be touched all the time.  I've seen people appear grief stricken but it had nothing to do with losing their beloved but more about fear,change and being alone. It's frightening for me to imagine being alone but I'm sure it's even more frightening for my husband.  He needs the presence of other people or he gets very anxious like somoene trying to quit smoking or drinking.   He can't even stand being alone for one day without some type of human contact. 

She is not incredibly bad but she has a tendency to turn my girlfriends against me by planting the idea in their heads of how she percieves me.  Over all it is really annoying and immature. My birth mom is a pretty severe case of BPD and she is or can be OCD. Somehow my dad does not get hurt by these women.  He himself is pretty cut off from his emotions and stuck in his own thing. 

In any case I am not a npd magnet but a quiet BPD magnet.  Quiet BPDs can actually be some of the kindest and most considerate people of all, that is untill the disorder is triggered.