She is moving to Florida and I wouldnt be able to see the kids

[hurthusband]

well... went home yesterday because I was told I could see kids.  Wife had forgotten about Boy Scouts and was on bed listening to music drinking.  We sat and listened to her music talking.  Then took kids to Scouts.  She said she might go out with a friend, but when I checked back after Scouts she was asleep.

I got the kids fed and went to sleep on couch.  At 1 am, she woke me up.  She kept on how everything is too much and I do not care, and I need to take more time off for her.  This went on and on, how I am not doing enough, for 2 hours.  I did not lose my cool nor invalidate.  At the end, I finally said I needed to leave.  I could not handle all of this.  She called and said she had not eaten and felt sick.  Asking if I could pick up food.  I did and brought it back for her.  She promptly pointed out I never get enough ketchup and nit picking.  Then she made the comment that the oldest father might be moving to Florida because he can be paid more there and she might move out there too for a fresh start with the kids.  The only reason I could see in bringing that up then was to punch me with the fact she was leaving and taking the kids and there was nothing I could do.  I left immediately before saying anything.  I started to pull away as she ran at my car.  I figured she would stop, but no, she grabbed door and fell.  I immediately stopped.  I wish I had not assumed, but I just didnt want to talk to her anymore.  I made sure she was ok.

She then made a statement that really struck a cord with me.  She asked... if we do separate, how am I supposed to have time to see kids if I am working 6 days a week - 47 to 50 hours.  I could not answer that.  I let her know its a valid point.  She then let on how I am never there and I have nobody.  I after all this time spoke up and said "I have nobody because you chased them all off".  I should have acknowledged that I pushed them away because she wanted me to which was my choice, but I did not.  I immediately realized this was bad.  She stood up shaking.  I was silent.  It was much worse than I ever imagined.  She claims she now said that she was saying that "she" has nobody and that I was then saying that "she destroyed all her relationships".  That is reference to her job and best friend in past 6 weeks.  That is a blow no matter what I would never make because that would destroy her to her very core, but she thinks I did.  I did not, unless im crazy, but she thinks I did.  She wants nothing to do with me now.  The pain of that will scar her for life.

To make matters worse one of the kids heard some of it.  He did not get it all but he got that "she will take the boys and never let me see them" and that his mom thinks "i will steal her inheritence".  He was upstairs so he did not hear it right... she was saying that she was moving to Florida and I wouldnt be able to see them then.  Not that she would not let them see me.  She also was saying that "its her inheritence and I have no right to any of it".  I do not now if that is true or false, but I do not want any of it anyways.  The boy is upset and sad and doesnt want to go to school. She is on him that its his job to go to school and that he has missed so many days she will be hauled into court over it and he will be put in an institution which is a far off exageration... .well the institution part.  I just felt horrible for him.  I know he was up late and didnt want to go to school so that is a part of it, but ... .still

Now I do not know what to do.  She says she is moving out and never wants to see nor hear from me again.  The parts that really are digging into me VERY VERY hard are the ones of

a. she thinks I would say what I did and the pain it caused

b. her falling on way to car

and the biggest

c. am I just working too much and this is the source of our problem?  I am not there enough?  When we first got together I was working all the time.  Then I cut it back to really 30 hours a week.  Was not enough money, so I took second job with family that required me 6 days a week working 54 hours... I had cut it back past few months to 47 hours, but still 6 days a week.  I have been sent home 3 times in past month over our arguing on phone at work... .I refused to take her calls so she got in a fight with person on work phone. 

She is destroyed... no parents, no nothing.  She begged me to take off last Saturday with 2 days notice.  That just didnt seem right to do with work and as it turned out we were short handed too.  She wanted me to this Saturday, but I am finishing up tax stuff for year with them as its the first and will be MASSIVE.

Still, I only taking maybe 1 Saturday off a month.  I am the only person doing that at my job so there is pressure there.

I do not want to lose my family because I am working too much or putting others before them...   I can rationalize I am the only income and we are not making ends meet as is, but what is the balance... do i give up my career and try something else?  While her mother was dying things were going well.  Things shot badly when I had a stress over taxes 2 weeks ago and no money to pay them.  Since then here we are...

[Grey Kitty]

am I just working too much and this is the source of our problem?  I am not there enough?  When we first got together I was working all the time.  Then I cut it back to really 30 hours a week.  Was not enough money, so I took second job with family that required me 6 days a week working 54 hours... I had cut it back past few months to 47 hours, but still 6 days a week.  I have been sent home 3 times in past month over our arguing on phone at work... .I refused to take her calls so she got in a fight with person on work phone. 

Are you working too much? Maybe, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Are you spending enough time at home with her and the kids?

That is another question. I'll give you a hint:

She is provoking you to the point where you have to leave the house to protect yourself, outside of your working hours.

She woke you up at 1am to start a fight with you.

She kept berating you for two hours after that.

She is threatening divorce.

She physically attacked you.

She has given you fairly good reasons to believe she could falsely accuse you of domestic violence when she is the violent one.

She has pushed you up to your breaking point.


... .if you are staying away from home "too much" to support the family the way you would like to, you are NOT the biggest part of the problem.


... .and here's the important part: You don't have to convince her of any of this. It is your truth. Believe it.

These accusations about working too much are just part of her way of attacking you.

The best thing you can do is go away sooner when she starts behaving that way with you next time.

[hurthusband]

i dont know that she moving to florida.  She randomly stated her ex and parent of one of the kids is thinking about it and might be able to do so for more money.  It sounded so unsure of a thing and so random that it was meant just as a threat to hurt me. 

I never considered that though... That she could move.

[ForeverDad]

If there is no case in family court (separation, divorce, etc) then likely she can do whatever she wishes.  Just as you can do whatever you wish.  That is to say, there are no limitations to the undefined custody and parenting of your children.  She could block you from seeing the children and there is nothing the police would do to help you see them.  They maybe might try to reason with her to let you see the children in an attempt to diffuse the situation but if she still refused then they'd likely turn to you and tell you, as my police told me, "Fix this in court, try again when you have an order in hand."  Without a court order stating otherwise it was almost literally "possession is 9/10 of the law".

This is blaming and blame-shifting.  Against that you have had no success, not even when constantly walking on eggshells, as seen by your shock that you might have said something - that she perceived incorrectly - to 'damage' her forevermore.  Fact is, she's an adult.  You are not expected to protect an adult from Life.  If not then, if not you, then eventually someone, somewhen would have said something triggering and devastating to her.  Lose the concept that you can shield her from all misconceptions and misperceptions.  You can't.

Your work schedule is to help support the family.  Yes, if you work and she doesn't then she will probably be seen as the primary parent - mine was.  Yes, they'll probably want you to keep working to provide child support, etc.  But you won't be seen badly for straining to support the family.

As I said, this is blaming and blame-shifting.  And more, even shoveling GUILT, in her perceptions it's your fault for being the responsible parent and doing the responsible thing.  That's why we have the FOG phrase (Fear, Obligation, GUILT).  Don't let her misuse GUILT to make you feel powerless and disadvantaged.

[formflier]

 

Hurt,

Hey... .there are obviously big things on her mind. 

That is having an impact on her... .and you.

Please focus on Grey's list...

Big thing that jumps out... .is 1am discussions.  Used to happen to me all the time.  Rarely went well... I might even say NEVER... .

What boundaries did you enforce that night?  How did you enforce them?

Do you think some should have been enforced sooner?  Or do you think different boundaries are needed?

Hang in there!   

[momtara]

first off, you are not the problem.  you have done everything you can for her, above and beyond.

this is frustrating regarding the kids, because i know you are not the kids' father and don't have the same kind of rights a father would have.  these kinds of threats look really bad when couples are divorcing and in a custody battle, in general.

i've said it before - rules have exceptions.  if she is a bad influence on them, and the kids' mental health, they need a responsible person in their lives.  you have been there practically since one of the kids is born.

you are scared about losing them, and that's why you are not in a position of power to set boundaries.  you need a counselor who is on your side, or a lawyer.  someone who can help you.  i know it's scary, but once you find someone, you will be sorry you waited.  i don't mean you have to leave her.  but you have to set some rules or at least have someone helping you.  this is way too much for you to deal with alone.

[momtara]

also, her threats are probably just that.  my ex said he might have to move away if we divorced too.  never did.

[hurthusband]

she keeps saying if i had just taken off that one day...

I offered to call in sick.  It was 48 hours notice of being off and honestly the previous week i had to work half a day and was told to leave because her calls caused problems.  I just felt I was looking so bad and undependable to my job.  Plus end of the year stuff which we trying to have done by end of this week

She keeps saying one day... If I had it may have saved the marriage.

Other thing is last night she told me her sister took pictures of her injuries from when SHE lunged at my car while it was moving and fell.  That to me said she was planning something.  Then i thought all her texts are nice and she asked me to bring her and son dinner last night and after i did she blasted me.  I did not plan on staying.  Notice her texts are nice and verbally abusive - non-documented.  She said Sunday she was meeting divorce attorney on this past Monday.  I started to think that she was building a case or something against me.  I asked her and she has recanted everything.  Last night before I asked she said she was not saying the truth about sister.  Surely its understandable how I came to that conclusion...

I just do not know what to do.  I just wrote mortage and health insurance checks and mailed out without enough money in bank account to cover the bills!  Maybe I shouldnt worry about money... maybe I should be at home...

I do not know.  I dont not know if I am just fixated on finances and work and totally missing everything.  Her sister says I am.  I trust her sister.  Everyone else seems to say I am not but her sister works a standard 8 to 5 job 5 days a week and everyone else I know works various hour jobs in sales or business owners, or professionals who do not work set hours.  So all the views are skewed.  Wife grew up in home with standard work week parents and I grew up with ones that were business owners...

So our views are skewed.  I just do not know.  I hear the pain and all in her voice.  She just wants it to stop.  I am not there enough to help her, but could I ever be?

She says it was just one day... I feeel like I should demand we rework the work hours of our business...  everyone else works more than me though.  The operation is already fewer hours now than it was in its 40 year history.  I mean we have to be 6 days a week because people who rent houses and apartments have problems 7 days a week and need help!

Its a gold mine too.  :)o i give it up when it long term could provide for my family and wife all she desires?  I mean right now its therapy that is eating us alive, so I mean $50k more a year would basically solve it all.  Once inherited this job is more like $300k with millions in assets...

I know money does not make you happy, but you can just as easily be poor and unhappy as well off and unhappy.  At least you do not have to worry about food or a roof over your head.

When I try and explain my perspective it totallys JADE's everything, but do i just stay silent and thats an admission to everything she says.  She is never ever calm enough to see mine.

The kids... the kids are having so much trouble now too.  One is neglecting school work and the other was caught stealing money from us.

Everything is complete chaos.  She says if I tell her to move she will move in with her sister who inherited their parents 4 bedroom house last month at least until her financial settlement comes.  I cannot do that because of kids and cause I want her comfortable.  I honestly like the thought of my own home better.  Mainly cause of my OCD problems and trying to function outside of my domain is very hard, but not at cost of her and boys suffering more.  She says she is not going to take another cent from me and miss therapy.  I do not want her to do that.  She says I am the one who needs intensive therapy and she is.  I cannot argue that, but at same time I get along with EVERYONE else.  Maybe its cause I am a pushover.

The only place I can go now is my parents and that would make things worse.  She despises my parents.  She thinks they are source of alot of this because its their business.  Or cause they did not keep up their end on some things they said they would do that could possibly get them into legal trouble for her.  Or cause they do not check in on her enough.  She is right about those things.  She is concerned if they get involved my mother will dominate the divorce and make it very nasty.  She is right, I am quite sure my mother will try.  I would not let her, but she thinks my mother will poison my mind etc.  its a valid concern for her based on my sister and her custody battle with her *baby daddy*.

So going there is basically a guarantee of divorce and launching a nuclear strike.  I have no friends, no other relatives to go to.  Really the only other place is her sister's! but that would be awkward because it is her sister and I do not want a wedge between them to form.  I hate the thought of her sister against me but I would rather that than on my side since thats all my wife has left.

Everything is... .bad... very very bad... .

This is certainly forest from the tree, but the forest is on fire right now.  I can always save myself.  I know that... but that means giving up on my wife and kids.  the guilt of that... I care so much for them still.  While I cannot bring myself to try suicide again, and the pain it would cause others is agonizing, I certainly wish i was never born rather than face this decision and this delima.  My wife does not think this has the pressure on me it does. She keeps on how she has lost her parents and everything and I do not dispute that, but its always diminishes the pain I have on this...

This is also the accumulation of years.  I saw this past year all these years had me at the breaking point which tipped this month right at the worst time

[ForeverDad]

she keeps saying if i had just taken off that one day... .

She keeps saying one day... If I had it may have saved the marriage.

No, that's ridiculous, it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back but taking a day off wouldn't have fixed things.   Remember, blame-shifting.

Other thing is last night she told me her sister took pictures of her injuries from when SHE lunged at my car while it was moving and fell.  That to me said she was planning something... .  She said Sunday she was meeting divorce attorney on this past Monday.  I started to think that she was building a case or something against me.  I asked her and she has recanted everything... .

Do you have that recorded?  If not then it's all "he-said, she-said" and likely to be ignored as hearsay if it is brought up in court.

When I try and explain my perspective it totallys JADE's everything, but do i just stay silent and that's an admission to everything she says.  She is never ever calm enough to see mine.

Sadly, you can't reason with someone who isn't willing to sincerely listen and reason with you.  She is distorting everything to fit her perceptions.  This is not to say you can't make improvements or changes, but the reality is that she won't ever (unless she takes long term therapy seriously) stop finding fault with you.  No one's perfect and even if you were somehow virtually perfect she'd still find something to complain about.

One thing we ask our members to consider when nothing else has worked is to think about establishing a separate, calm, stable and peaceful home of your own so you and the children can live at least some of your lives in a reasonably normal environment.  The children are acting out - and you're suffering - because appeasing and complying to unreasonable demands doesn't work long term.  It is currently unhealthy and dysfunctional.  Apparently counseling by itself until now hasn't been enough.  Something has to change... .and since she won't, then it's up to you to make the changes.  Do so carefully and in ways to preserve your parenting and lessen the potential risk of false allegations.  You've already set one boundary - 'I won't live where I feel unsafe, mistreated and targeted.'  That's a start.

I'm sure there will be more posts from members who were once in your shoes but are in much better places now.  We've all Been There, Done That.  We have much to share.

[formflier]

stay silent and that's an admission to everything she says.  

I messed up the quotes on here... .this was from hurthusband.

I used to think this way... .that if she said it... .I had to prove her wrong or it was an admission.  Bad thinking... .

You are in charge of your brain and your thoughts... .if she wants to claim otherwise... that is her right.  Don't "fight" with her over it.

The best you can do... .is a "help me understand statement... ."... .so... ."help me understand how you believe this to be true... ."  listen for things to validate... .you don't want to directly contradict what she says... .but you certainly don't want to agree. 

Hang in there man... .

[momtara]

HURTHUSBAND!

BREATHE!

I've never seen a post from you like that one.  You have too many things bearing down on you and you need someone helping you. No one could deal with what you're dealing with.  Someone aggressive.  A counselor.  There aren't a lot of good ones out there.  I've met lame and diplomatic ones.  but you need someone to help you see things clearly, because from that last post, you are not.  

You have done wonderful amazing things and you are a wonderful amazing person to have kept your wife and kids together and your family together for so long.  You are doing great.  Know that!

You CANNOT help your wife, the kids, or anyone if you are mentally unable to deal with this situation.  I think you are letting your body and mind get overloaded so that rather than making a decision, you collapse.  I understand that instinct.  However, it may not be better.  

Try not to dwell on the one day -- half the posts on here are "If I only hadn't said this one thing" or "if only she hadn't seen that one text to my old friend and decided I must be cheating on her" or half a million of these?  They are looking for one ridiculous thing to use to blame you, and they WILL find it no matter what you do. We all walk on eggshells for so long but there is a point in which WE cannot control the situation either.  They can always find something to complain about.  Now you are writing checks your arse can't cash (or the bank).  You have done nothing wrong.

You've done a SUPERHUMAN job of keeping all the balls in the air for so long and she keeps reaching in and batting the balls away and still you find a way to do it but it's becoming impossible.

Start realizing what she says is distorted.  She is not moving to Florida.  That's something she said on a whim to mess you up, and you believed it.  My ex told me the same thing when we were about to get divorced.  (He just said, he can't afford to stay here, would have to move to a diff state).  He did not.

Can you get an hour to yourself to organize all these things?  You must see your counselor and ask for help, and ask how to get out of this mess without losing her.  Throwing money at a situation can't do it.  You buy her a new car and then yo have no money for more important things.  She just wants more and more things.

Here is what I think you should do:

1)  Make an emergency appointment with your T.  Ask what you should do right now about all this.

2)  :)on't buy her any more things, by the way (computer, car etc).

3)  Try to keep doing your job

4)  Prepare, preemtively, with a lawyer, to make a legal case for staying in the kids' lives and having some custody, if you separate.  Yes, it's a hard road if you are not bio dad.  Maybe you can be the first guy to say you've been in their lives forever and she is not stable.  You will have to plan this quietly and do it quickly.  NOTE:  I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD LEAVE HER, JUST HAVE THIS BATTLE PLAN IN PLACE IF NECESSARY so you are not as vulnerable.

And let's say she moves with the kids.  Say you move with her.  If she doesn't have a restraining order, you can do this.  I know you don't want to.  But it's a card you can play.  Of course, she may well get a RO one day and then you'll really be in trouble, so you may want to have a lawyer document the emotional abuse (and physical?) she has put you through in case you ever need to read such a letter in court.

BPD is a blamers' disease.  She will make you doubt yourself for no reason.  As painful as it is for you, focus on yourself, what you must do, and protect yourself pre-emptively with your lawyer and therapist.  You don't have to leave her, respond to her threats.  You still live in your house.  Come and go.  It's your house.  If she ever tries to lock you out, you should have documents protecting yourself.

And you know what?  You're all alive.  You're healthy.  You made it this far.  Everyone makes mistakes and is allowed to move on.  Why should you be different?  You're great.  

((HUG))  

[hurthusband]

stay silent and that's an admission to everything she says.  

I messed up the quotes on here... .this was from hurthusband.

I used to think this way... .that if she said it... .I had to prove her wrong or it was an admission.  Bad thinking... .

You are in charge of your brain and your thoughts... .if she wants to claim otherwise... that is her right.  Don't "fight" with her over it.

The best you can do... .is a "help me understand statement... ."... .so... ."help me understand how you believe this to be true... ."  listen for things to validate... .you don't want to directly contradict what she says... .but you certainly don't want to agree. 

Hang in there man... .

well her therapist said she should not move in with her sister because

a. her sister is already stressing over handling estate and taking care of their 7 dogs!

b. extra stress of her and the kids might send things into a bad position

c. when they went to Europe together last year things went so badly I had to get her an emergency flight home before it was even finished

it makes sense and i suppose kids more comfortable... means im ___ing miserable.  living at my mothers.  OCD is not really hitting me hard.  Worrying about moving some of my ___ and the procedures involved.  Having nothing to myself and paying for her to live in teh house

i suppose its temperoary until estate is settled and she gets money to make her own life...

[waverider]

Keep in mind a lot of these threats are unrealistic...

People she is expecting to lean on will in the long run not be willing to allow her to.

Taking over the kids 100% without any input from you, is she actually capable of it? Is she responsible enough to do this? It is not an easy thing to do

Do not get sucked into big talking impulsive threats.

[momtara]

sorry, I haven't seen all the prior posts and didn't realize you're living apart.  many of us walk on eggshells until we are pushed to the brink. then we push back. sometimes it works out and gives them a wakeup call. sometimes it doesn't. hard to say what will happen in your case. I just want you to know that you are doing your best.

[hurthusband]

she texted last night saying she is willing to believe i didnt mean the comment about her being alone how she took it and i meant it about myself.  She said we should come to a better livingarrangement together. How she is hurting and that changes need to happen on both sides.  She talks about how she feels isolated wtihout me.  How I just cant continue to blame her though

That was at 1 am and at 5 am i texted back I apologized for delay response and thanked her for it.  I understood that all that she could not control alot of what had happened in her life and that its horrible and I am sorry fro her.  I agreed it is not healthy for me to blame her for everything and I do not.  How I am worried how all of this is affecting kids.

She stated she was defeated and deflated and do not have anything else to give

I responded I can understandt hat and why

No response until 9 am when she said she was very hurt that I did not call or text her this morning.  That she feels of low priority to me.

I texted back I am sorry but she had not responded to my last so I was not sure if she wanted me to text her anymore and that she has told me not to many times...   Also that I am scared to text her because I do not want to fight.  That being said I apologize and I should have had the courage to do so and show I love her.  If i did and she yelled at me, at least she would know I cared and I am sorry. 

She then states I did not check though still.  I explained that it seems that its a chicken and egg situation.  I am not forthcoming with communication like she wants because I am scared it will piss her off and she gets pissed off cause i do not communicate (sometimes cause i do communicate).  We just gotta work on that cycle.  Also that we were doing well for awhile until I unfairly flipped out a bit and that she did misread it and it spun out from there.

That is when it got bad and she said it would have been nice if I had given her credit for us getting along and thats part of my problem that I do not ever do that until its too late.

I let her know Im trying to be calm and talk with ehr but im going to be nervous if she keeps getting mad at me.

She says she cant count on me and that maybe I did like I told her she did everyone else.  Totally referencing the event she said at 1 am she would trust me on and turning a 180.  How I just do not care...

I inform her things are getting out of control her and I do not know what she wants but that up until that point we were doing well at working things out

She latched onto out of control and i do not listen and this is going nowhere and she will never contact me again...

What did i do wrong?

[formflier]

What did i do wrong?

OK... .we'll never know for sure... .but I have some suggestions... that may help.  If you do them consistently.  She was trying to "argue" with you... .and I think you wanted to "explain" things to her... ."explain" your side. 

Do you remember that feeling?  That thought?  Anytime that you have that thought of "Oh... I'll explain xyz"... .I hope we can get you to the point where alarm bells go off... and you do something different.

Comments on your exchange:  Stop apologizing.  IF... .you really want to say sorry... ."I'm sorry you feel that way... ." might be ok.

Try to validate her feelings... .use empathy to show her you understand how tough that is.

SET format works well.  Here is a challenge... .think about a couple of things that were said... and pick one or two and come up with a better response using SET.  We'll help tweak your efforts after you suggest one.

My other guess is to keep interactions shorter.  She is most likely trying to string it out... .to get you off your game... .and blame and accuse you. 

I am a big fan of "Help me understand... ."  Such as "help me understand what me giving you credit looks like... ."

help me understand when I should communicate and when I should not...

[Grey Kitty]

What did i do wrong?

I'll see one place you might have gone in a wrong direction... .

That was at 1 am and at 5 am i texted back I apologized for delay response and thanked her for it.

Not sure how your apology sounded. (To me, being asleep at 1am and not hearing an incoming text and not responding seems like very reasonable behavior. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper 'tho. It is different than ignoring a phone call)

I'm not sure exactly how that text sounded--it could have been good, validating, and sincere.

Or it could have been kinda defensive, afraid, and tending toward invalidation.

The train might have been rocking, but hadn't run off the tracks yet!

No response until 9 am when she said she was very hurt that I did not call or text her this morning.  That she feels of low priority to me.

I texted back I am sorry but she had not responded to my last so I was not sure if she wanted me to text her anymore and that she has told me not to many times.

Here, I *KNOW* you went wrong.

JADE, JADE, JADE!

Never Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. ESPECIALLY when you are accused of something. It is completely invalidating of her feelings.

By this time, the train had gone off the tracks... .and over the cliff. Full-blown dysregulation. No amount of validation was going to save it now.

At this point you have two options:

• Stop reacting to her attacks, and wait for her to wind down. (Preferably by enforcing a boundary so you don't have to listen to them and deal with the hurt they cause you!)



• Engage her in her fight and watch it just get worse and worse!

[momtara]

You didn't do anything wrong.  Your posts make me frustrated and sad because you can't see that this is not your fault.

Hurthusband, she sent you a text at 1 a.m. that seemed reasonable.  You texted back at 5 a.m. and were reasonable.  She didn't respond.  Then she started blaming you.  You could NOT win.  If you text 2x in a row, you are bothering her, and if you don't text, she then blames you for not pursuing her.  HOW IS THIS YOUR FAULT?  IT'S NOT!  It's typical BPD behavior.

But you said:  "That being said I apologize and I should have had the courage to do so and show I love her.  If i did and she yelled at me, at least she would know I cared and I am sorry."

But it's not about courage.  You are extremely courageous to stay through all this madness.  All you care about is having a nice family and no fighting.  If you had texted her 2x without her responding, you were not giving her a chance to respond, she may be in a foul mood, and a half dozen other issues and she WOULD HAVE BLAMED YOU ANYWAY. 

You apologized for something you didn't do wrong, and as we all know, with a BPD person, that gives them too much license to keep stomping on you.  So the only mistake I see here is that you apologized too much.  Which just means you're a nice guy.

Do you understand how far removed her responses are from a normal person's responses?  You are doing nothing wrong, being just as loving as you can, and she will still find a way to blame you.  If you text her back, you do something wrong, and if you don't, you do something wrong.

Boundaries.  Keep everything positive.  Respond to her, but not more than once.  If she asks why you didn't text twice, don't say "Because then you might have" or "because last time... ." since her memory will be different. You can simply say "You didn't respond" just like before, and maybe "I figured I'd give you time to respond."  That's it.  Keeps it positive, and nothing she can blame you for or dispute. 

She is very abusive to you.  You are taking it like a champ.  She is likely to say one thing one minute and change her mind the next.  It's very hard because you love her.  Just dont' start believing the story about yourself that she is trying to sell you.  It's a coverup for her own mental illness and failures and blame.

My ex-husband didn't want to lose me or my 2 kids, and yet he did everything in his power to drive us away and couldn't stop himself.  Sometimes he has memories of that time that aren't true - like, he claims I hit our son.  I didn't, but at least that would explain why he got so angry at me.  It's an emotional memory.  Similiarly, your wife is sabotaging a wonderful marriage, driving away a great guy, because of her illness, and she needs to construct an alternate story to keep the blame off herself.  Don't give her those tools.  I've been there and I know what it's like that even if you respond with a few words, they get used against you.  Sometimes you just have to say nothing and let it pass. 

[Grey Kitty]

I want to be clear about "What did you do wrong?" I agree with momtara--you didn't DO anything to your wife that was wrong.

My post was about where you said something that set her off... .and could have said something different, that wouldn't have set her off in that way at that time.

She's still doing everything she can to deflect all blame away from herself and onto anyone or anything else. You are her favorite target for that.

This will only change when YOU refuse to stand there like a well-behaved target and let her shoot at you!


Hang in there man... .this is really tough!

[ForeverDad]

In brief, you have all along been attempting an Impossible Task, you doing all the work and her always shoveling more.

Remember Sisyphus?  In Greek mythology Sisyphus was a king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished... .by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever.

It's blunt, but she hasn't changed and thus far has shown no inclination to change.  Accept that.  Then what?

To survive, one of you has to change.  She won't, not for the better, so it's up to you to find whatever else might work, you already know what doesn't work.  SET, JADE, Mindfulness and the other skills help to a point, but you're still struggling with that Impossible Task.  You have to Let Go and change your mission that into a Possible Task.  Boundaries will help immensely but do you really think the relationship - as it is - can continue and you "Survive and Prosper"?

[formflier]

This will only change when YOU refuse to stand there like a well-behaved target and let her shoot at you!

Hurt,

Does this make sense to you?  Do you think you can do this?  What would have this looked like in the most recent exchange about texts...

[hurthusband]

how is this...

She just said "you make me feel like an idiot.  All I ever wanted was for you to love me"

I responded

S - Feeling like an idiot and unloved is pretty much the worst feeling I can imagine

E - it must feel even worse and betrayal coming from me even though im really trying not to

T - When you are angry it makes it hard to get close to you.  It doesnt matter whose fault this is, but when angry its hard to communicate.  Certainly I can communicate better to help curb it

[formflier]

how is this...

She just said "you make me feel like an idiot.  All I ever wanted was for you to love me"

I responded

S - Feeling like an idiot and unloved is pretty much the worst feeling I can imagine

E - it must feel even worse and betrayal coming from me even though im really trying not to

T - When you are angry it makes it hard to get close to you.  It doesnt matter whose fault this is, but when angry its hard to communicate.  Certainly I can communicate better to help curb it

Solid first effort... .here is my take.

S... .I think you nailed it... .I will leave that alone.

E... ."I can see you are really hurting... "

T... ."I do love you... ."


Others give it a shot.

My version of the T is a little tricky... because it could invalidate her... .but it is the "truth"

sometimes I have to SE SE SET

or keep going with the SE until you see them relax... .then go with the T.  If you try before they relax... .it could invalidate.

You will invalidate her some... especially as you try to learn this... .don't worry... .you will figure it out.

In the early stages... maybe just SE... .and leave off the T.

[hurthusband]

how is this...

She just said "you make me feel like an idiot.  All I ever wanted was for you to love me"

I responded

S - Feeling like an idiot and unloved is pretty much the worst feeling I can imagine

E - it must feel even worse and betrayal coming from me even though im really trying not to

T - When you are angry it makes it hard to get close to you.  It doesnt matter whose fault this is, but when angry its hard to communicate.  Certainly I can communicate better to help curb it

Solid first effort... .here is my take.

S... .I think you nailed it... .I will leave that alone.

E... ."I can see you are really hurting... "

T... ."I do love you... ."


Others give it a shot.

My version of the T is a little tricky... because it could invalidate her... .but it is the "truth"

sometimes I have to SE SE SET

or keep going with the SE until you see them relax... .then go with the T.  If you try before they relax... .it could invalidate.

You will invalidate her some... especially as you try to learn this... .don't worry... .you will figure it out.

In the early stages... maybe just SE... .and leave off the T.

She said the S pissed her off.  She hates me restating what she said apparantly.  E is usually "you can never understand".  I ended last message whens he said to never contact her with I love you

[formflier]

 

Are you trying to do this via text? 

If she complains... ."I'm sorry you feel that way... ."   

[waverider]

With regards to "fault" keep in mind that her making things your fault is not even really about you it is about her, it is her overwhelming defense mechanism kicking in to deflect blame away from herself. It lands on you as a consequence. But pushing it away from her is the overriding motivator driven by panic and fear.

Sometimes it is possible to deflect blame sideways onto "circumstances" or some external influence/3rd party. This is why triangulation easily occurs in BPD relationships.

Currently she is putting you in role of both rescuer and persecutor (black & white), as there are only 2 players in this dynamic. This contradiction causes the instabilty, as you can't be both at the same time.

Blame will follow the path of least resistance, as long as you are open to accepting it, that  is where it goes.

If you are open to the rescuing and totally resistant to blame, the blame will start to go elsewhere and she will lean on you more for support. Then it it would be up to you to keep any support/rescuing on a healthy level (as that can otherwise become enabling)

[momtara]

 "it must feel even worse and betrayal coming from me even though im really trying not to"

I think the rest of your response was largely good, but I don't like the parts where you take blame, and excessive blame at that.  I think that just tells her she can keep blaming you.  Can you keep things more positive?  It's like you're giving too much information.  She didn't use the term betrayal; you are convicting yourself on extra charges she didn't even bring up!  If the cops arrested you for drunk driving would you say "I just robbed someone too"?

I say this from a place of understanding, because I have done that too.  In an effort to emphathize, I have given extra examples.  But I don't know that it helps.

You know, we can all second guess a million ways.  Maybe you said the perfect thing, in her mind.  There is no way to understand how someone with distorted thinking thinks.  Trying to figure out every step to take can practically kill you.

My overall advice is to say only things that -- a month from now -- you won't look back on and say, "Why did I say that" or "Why did I leave this out?"  Telling her you love her, to me, is always great because you will never have regrets.  That's what I always tried to do.

She is still talking to you.  As has become apparent, she doesn't really want you to leave.  But then again, none of these folks necessarily do, and it ends up that way.  I wish there was some drug to fix her, I really do.  I've said it before and I've said it again:  What a cruel illness.

[hurthusband]

my mind is mush at this point. i am frustrated with everything... just too much... .

getting hammered by her, having to save her, having to work, having to all of this and then trying to just survive... o yea... today she ends up spending another $800 at the doctor.

[momtara]

$800 for what?  :)oes she ask you for money for these things?  Maybe you need to keep your credit cards and money to yourself.  

In any case, seems like the less said to her, the better.  

Yes, your mind is mush.  My head is spinning from my own ex.  What if your wife is just not logical?  You can't win.  All you can do is protect yourself from not losing too too too much.

Even if someone handed you $100,000 right now to solve your problems, she'd probably ask for a $100,000 car or trip.

What's the worst that can happen?  You have survived this long.  You will all survive.  Hang in there.  Keep us posted.

[hurthusband]

$800 for what?  :)oes she ask you for money for these things?  Maybe you need to keep your credit cards and money to yourself.  

In any case, seems like the less said to her, the better.  

Yes, your mind is mush.  My head is spinning from my own ex.  What if your wife is just not logical?  You can't win.  All you can do is protect yourself from not losing too too too much.

Even if someone handed you $100,000 right now to solve your problems, she'd probably ask for a $100,000 car or trip.

What's the worst that can happen?  You have survived this long.  You will all survive.  Hang in there.  Keep us posted.

her eye doctor for glasses and contacts.  She had not been in a couple of years... She asked me to watch our son while she handled her grandmother who broke her hip.  I went there and was with him when she came home quickly.  We sat around and i bought groceries for them and sat while she drank and basically ate 3 fish sticks.

Finally at midnight i went home as she basically told me to "go home" which hurt because I consider that my home.  She then says how she loves me but just doesnt feel anything for me now that we can be a family

Then this morning she gets mad I have not sent her flowers or am taking off early today because I have a customer driving here from out of town to purchase a car which will instantly put 1k in our pockets today when we are on $200 only for next week.

Its this push and pull of wanting me and rejecting me.  Im sick all the time now.  I want to do the right thing, but I have so many plates  spinning and anything i do seems wrong

I finally told her I cannot keep doing things and not just being rejected but insulted and abused and that it drives me to a spot that I cannot be.  I cannot get to the point in an abusive part where I lose my mind and harm myself for the kids sake.  I dont care about myself, but I do them.  So i cannot keep trying to get her back if she is going to hurt me everytime.  She can reject it kindly, but I cannot handle the abuse.

Maybe its not abuse.  I just do not know whats going on