I just got this email from my wife...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

hurthusband:

It sounds to me like you are in a total isolated place and you have slowly lost the strength to stand up to what you believe and what you want.

Don't get attached to her kids for they are her kids. They can be your friends but should not be your only friends.

Your house is your castle and home. Why did you let her kick you out ? Are you the one that pays for it ?

I can understand when the wife has your own kids and kick you out . But here (1) you are the main support for the house, (2) the kids are not yours. So I really don't comprehend why you had to move out. You got it all backward.

The oldest was 3 when I met their mother and youngest 1.  The youngest does not know his father.  He looks at me as his father and I look at him as my son.  Her therapist advised her not to move out to her sister/parents old home because of the dynamic with her sister not being good and its her only support left.  She has no means to afford another place at this time.  I cannot kick them to the streets and be that ruthless.  I have a spot to go.  It sucks, but I still look at them as family and I still want to protect them.  Perhaps even protect her from herself, and for my part in all of this

[hurthusband]

hurthusband:

It sounds to me like you are in a total isolated place and you have slowly lost the strength to stand up to what you believe and what you want.

Don't get attached to her kids for they are her kids. They can be your friends but should not be your only friends.

Your house is your castle and home. Why did you let her kick you out ? Are you the one that pays for it ?

I can understand when the wife has your own kids and kick you out . But here (1) you are the main support for the house, (2) the kids are not yours. So I really don't comprehend why you had to move out. You got it all backward.

The oldest was 3 when I met their mother and youngest 1.  The youngest does not know his father.  He looks at me as his father and I look at him as my son.  Her therapist advised her not to move out to her sister/parents old home because of the dynamic with her sister not being good and its her only support left.  She has no means to afford another place at this time.  I cannot kick them to the streets and be that ruthless.  I have a spot to go.  It sucks, but I still look at them as family and I still want to protect them.  Perhaps even protect her from herself, and for my part in all of this

[momtara]

You can separate your finances and then she has to ask you to pay for things.  You are paying this therapist.  If she won't give you receipts (?) then don't pay.  But that sounds untrue - sounds like wife is lying.  Why won't a therapist give you receipts?  Also, is this woman really writing a book on her?  That sounds like using her.  Your wife should go free!

"For 26 minutes she expressed herself and how she wrote that letter and tried to say what she needed."

I'm glad you didn't get sucked in to arguing.  And didn't beat yourself up or apologize for nonsense this time.  However, 26 mintues?  Who has that time?  That's time for her to give you landmines.  If she wants to abuse you and push you away, she doesn't deserve 26 minutes.  I thik you love her and you let her do this for that reason, but as you see, it doesn't help - what might help is letting her think a little bit about what it would really feel like if she pushed you away.  You're taking her abuse and demands so what is her motivation to stoP?

"She blamed me for everything.  I have some blame and I feel horrible."

She is more abusive and hurtful to you than practically anyone I've read about here, and that says a lot.  So what if you probably did something wrong here and there as we all do on a daily basis?  We forget a birthday or get the wrong present and it's no big deal to a normal person.  You're not allowed to be human?  Have you done anything REALLY bad, called her a  name, told her she's lazy, tried to get her to quit a job she works hard at?  NO.  Nothing you do falls into that category.  So stop beating yourself up.  She even changes the criteria for what's ok and what's not, so you can't ever win.

"If I had acted and not Jaded or danced the dance a little bit different through this trying time maybe things would have been different."

No, they wouldn't.  Maybe if you'd bottled up your emotions you would have had a breakdown.  She is doing all this, not you.

Stop blaming yourself.  Perhaps your therapist needs to talk to her therapist NOW.  Don't wait on it. 

Things are getting bad and something has to change.  You have to stop taking her calls for a bit, but also, I think someone at school has to know what's going on, and your T should talk to hers.

Wouldn't it be nice to suddenly have a plan, take charge, and end this problem in a positive way?  If she's mad for a day, who cares?  May help you for a lifetime.  And really, she is sick - deep inside, she is doing all this to push you to respond.  You can respond by doing something awful, like continuing to accept the abuse and get even sicker, or you can do something brave and tell your therapist and have him talk to her therapist, and maybe somehow talk to the school psychologist.

If you were with the kids since they were 1 and 3 they are practically yours.  I think this is a fight you should make someday - esp if she wants child support, you must have written visitation in your agreement (if you ever divorce).  You will really regret it if you get weak-kneed and give in.

But she wants you to be the one to file, and you don't have to do it.  Remember - you have some power here.  It's not just her.

[OnceConfused]

hurt:

If you choose to stay elsewhere then it is ok. But the word you used, like :allowed to go back to pick up your stuffs:, implies that you have no control whatsoever.

I think you cannot think straight right now because you have little or no support systems (no family , no friends), which is exactly where BPD wants you to be - easier to control . You need to surround yourself with positive support. go back to your family and talk to them - blood is always thicker than water. Go back to your friends or collegues at work, ask for advice.  The more you surround yourself with positive influence the more posive and stronger you will be .

Your life situation will not be improved because no one is in charge. Your wife is going around in a circle with her BPD logic, while you are going around in a circle in your cave, banging your head into the wall.  Everyone is going around in a circle and noone has a clear direction for life.

To save yourself and hers, one of you has to make the move and move on with it. If you want to stay with her, then sit down with her with a list of wants and needs from both sides to see where you can meet. If not then one of you must have the courage to say enough is enough. "we are not happy with each other, so why staying around longer to prolong the agony and sufferings?". If you both can agree on a joint conditions then work on it with the help of a MC or someone like that. Remember T is not MC, T are there just to listen to one's and only one side story. Her T only hears her side of the story.

You cannot stay because of GUILT. The guilt of not taking care of her children (not yours), the guilts of her having no jobs no money (her problems not yours)

[reluctanthusband]

Man take the advise of getting ready for a battle.  How much good are you to that child you feel connected with if she destroys both of you in the process.  Lawyer up and find one that is experienced in High conflict.  The son may hate you for a while but it will show through some day.  :)ocument everything.  Find out what the minimums are for what you are supposed to give her if you separate legally and don't give he one penny more.  She has to come to a point where she HAS to make a decision.  Put her on the defense.  My Marriage was falling apart until I took care of my self(Not great at it but I did) and let her mess up her self.  She got mad threw things, yelled and fought withheld sex everything.  She acted like a friggin child not getting her way.  I stood firm in what I knew to be true and Biblically sound... .She FINALLY figured it out.  She is not 100% where she needs to be but It is a whole lot better than where we were.  You have to force these people to take responsibility for their actions and to not be controlled by their outbursts.  If they won't and you are not willing to put up with it you have to protect yourself.  I had a Change my game and keep from giving her ammo.  I'm not saying everything is unicorns and rainbows and I am not saying I wouldn't leave if she had another affair or was more abusive but you have to take care of yourself right now where you are at and that may mean you have to walk away from them.

[hurthusband]

No, I believe her on therapist.  I can tell you why the therapist is not.  For past year and half we had no mental health coverage so we paid out of pocket cash.

I am guessing the problem is the therapist was not reporting that as income. Taking it under the table.  If she is giving reciepts now which I know she didnt before, she would have to claim it and pay taxes on it.

If she wants to take money under the table that is fine and her business, but to do it and cost me money... That is my business.  She is not my wife, she does not get leniency.  

she has made a healthy list of what she wants that i think is fine, but it fails to admit any fault she has in reaching those goals and also accusations towards me that are not true or evidence that i think shows otherwise

in addition, she has no interest in changing saying she has changed enough.  she wants to just do the divorce ourself because she claims i have nothing and i have no right to the kids so there is nothing to argue about.  Ultimately, she is correct on that.  I just want a couple of days to sleep... rest, and basically get ahold of myself at this point but between her and work... its not happening.  I want to do what is best.  I feel like I am being forced into a battle after just fighting a war

seems like there is a stalemate here.  i am not willing to change much more because honestly, I have nothing left to give or that i can do.  I have no self anymore.

[cloudten]

You have to take care of yourself first.  Period.  You aren't doing that. So start there. Make a list with your T of things you absolutely have to be doing to take care of yourself. You need boundaries for yourself for starters. Positive boundaries. Skipping the gym should absolutely not be an option.  You know why? Because when you work out, your body puts out endorphins. Endorphins make you feel better. When you feel better, you can think better. 

You wife has no interest in changing because you have not given her reason to change.

There is a saying I LOVE:

If you always do what you have always done, you are always going to get what you have always gotten.

YOU HAVE TO CHANGE in ways that MAKE HER CHANGE. No it is not going to be fun. No it is going to effing suck. BUT- If you want to stay on the "staying" thread... .you can't keep doing the same thing over and over. I agree with reluctanthusband... .Lawyer up. Grow a pair. put her on the defense. She won't see it coming-- and frankly she needs to be shocked. This doesn't mean go through a divorce, but you have to show her you aren't taking it anymore. And in a lot of ways----- it's not personal its business. You are going to lose your job, your house, your cars, and on top of that your relationships... .not to mention hair and sanity... .if you do not change what you are doing. BE PROACTIVE!

[formflier]

She is more abusive and hurtful to you than practically anyone I've read about here, and that says a lot.  

And it seems like you are taking steps do deal with that abuse... .but... .what I am trying to get you to understand is that this is an extreme case... .and your boundaries have to be spot on.

So... .at the first hint of abuse... .click.  Hang up.

Same with blame.

You have mentioned that she is broken, kids are broken... and you are broken.

Who has the best chance of getting fixed... .soonest?

The answer is you... .focus on that!

[formflier]

YOU HAVE TO CHANGE in ways that MAKE HER CHANGE. 

If you change the dynamic... .it will force her to change... .

[Grey Kitty]

I'm confused.

Did you actually quit your job?

I sincerely hope you didn't. It is one of the few things that is helping hold you together.

[hurthusband]

I did not quit my job.  I doubt she is one of the more extreme cases on this board.  Maybe I'm delusional and don't realize how bad it is or maybe I've made things sound worse or too dramatic.  Plenty have it worse.  Some of this is just a nightmare perfect storm... .which just got worse...

So my wife quit her job back in November for two reasons

A. The boss was acting weird and icing her ou

B. Her mom needed care in hospice

Well today my wife found out that her coworker there took credit for the design and roll out of this whole logo and branding my wife did for this restaurant which my wife was very proud of.  I know she did it because she constantly used me as a sounding board on the design.  This was a big stab in thr back for her.

So she is I'm sure dyregulated big time now.  She told me that and she says we are still over.  Meanwhile I been trying for 2 hours to find her a vday gift like a moron

[SlyQQ]

Advise your p there is a long way to go in this tell her you need to be left alone for a while to think things over take a few days see if you can sleep then talk to some people an come back to it all a little more human you are probably only going to increase the confusion an hurt until you can step back rest an take inventory

[eyvindr]

Hi hurt --

Damn, what a mess. I'm sorry you're going through this, man.

From what I've read, I agree with what appears to be the general consensus here -- you need to step back, take a breath, collect yourself, and start making solid, objective, decisions. You need a plan, and you need to be methodical about it.

For anything to get better, many things have to change. It doesn't sound like your wife plans to change a damned thing. But you can. Try to hear what cloudten's words are meant to tell you.

First, you need to make a decision. Then you need to implement it. And you need to stick to it.

Your wife's drama and job stress -- sucks, but it's not your problem. It's hers. I understand why you want to explain on her behalf, why you want us to know -- you love her, you want us to be fair in our judgement of her. For better or worse, we will judge her -- on this site, we're your advocate, not hers. Of course,we aren't going to presume that we can make up your mind for you. Be objective -- this is just a forum full of a bunch of people who you don't know, who don't know you or your wife. But -- we share that you are going through. So, we can relate.

It won't be easy. Like cloudten said -- it's going to effin' suck. Big time. But, if you don't do something, it's going to suck worse, for much longer. Seriously. Maybe for the rest of your life.

We have a saying at the gym I go to. We have a lot of sayings, actually. One of them is "if you can't cure it with heavy squats and fish oil, you're probably not going to live." Get back in the gym, don't over-think it -- and pick that ___ up!

Another saying is, "Embrace the suck." It refers to those times when you're in the middle of a completely horrible workout, and everything in you is trying to come up with reasons to stop. Except, they aren't reasons -- they're excuses. And you learn to quiet those voices, or ignore them -- and you push through. And it effin' sucks -- and then you're done. And you're better for it. As we say, "Better than yesterday." Sometimes, often times -- that's enough.

You can do this. It's your life, man.

[hurthusband]

Ok it gets worse.  My wife is texting gibberish and I get a call from client that I made a $11k mistake.  At same time my wife is texting she just got word her grandmother is dying and then texting me she is blocking me from all their phones and I can never talk to kids  again

I'm losing it now

[EaglesJuju]

Ok it gets worse.  My wife is texting gibberish and I get a call from client that I made a $11k mistake.  At same time my wife is texting she just got word her grandmother is dying and then texting me she is blocking me from all their phones and I can never talk to kids  again

I'm losing it now

Hi Hurthusband,

Take a deep breath and focus on one thing at a time.  Try to not focus on your wife's gibberish and focus on the work problem first. 

[hurthusband]

And it gets worse.  Talked with my mother to ask for prayer.  She told me that since I won't stand up for myself she is going to destroy my wife unless I fix things instantly and not contact her for 7 days.  I told her she can't do thst and it will drive a wedge between her and I too.

She doesn't care.  So now I'm going to lose my mother too

[EaglesJuju]

And it gets worse.  Talked with my mother to ask for prayer.  She told me that since I won't stand up for myself she is going to destroy my wife unless I fix things instantly and not contact her for 7 days.  I told her she can't do thst and it will drive a wedge between her and I too.

She doesn't care.  So now I'm going to lose my mother too

I understand you have a lot being thrown at you at one time. The best way to handle a lot of issues is to focus on one thing at a time.  What is the first issue that is a priority?  The work issue? 

[formflier]

  I doubt she is one of the more extreme cases on this board.  Maybe I'm delusional and don't realize how bad it is or maybe I've made things sound worse or too dramatic. 

HH,

Help me understand why you think this?

Also... .I've asked several times... .and I don't think I have gotten an answer... .why continue to listen to the vitriol?? 

EaglesJuju is right... .one thing at a time.  Focus on work... .focus on yourself... .possibly find time to focus on your wife.

That order is incredibly important... .for a reason.

[ColdEthyl]

And it gets worse.  Talked with my mother to ask for prayer.  She told me that since I won't stand up for myself she is going to destroy my wife unless I fix things instantly and not contact her for 7 days.  I told her she can't do thst and it will drive a wedge between her and I too.

She doesn't care.  So now I'm going to lose my mother too

Your mother probably doesn't have a full grasp on your situation, she only hears your side, and how hurt you are. IMO, it's never a really good idea to speak about your spouse to family members because other factors come into play here.

You need to step back, hun. You are spiraling out of control. It's obvious to me from how you write that you feel powerless. The truth is... .you have all the power when married to a pwBPD.

YOU have the power to change. YOU have the power to see what's right and is not right. YOU have the power to secure your finances and your job.

I know you feel like you are drowning. I know you feel like you are so far deep, you cannot see the light. But sometimes... .when we feel like we are 6 feet deep... .we are 6 inches deep. All you have to do is... .stand up.

I suggest taking a few days to yourself if you can. No contact. Think about YOUR priorities. Think about what YOU want... .YOUR goals. List the pluses and minuses of your marriage. Find out if you really want to put the work in. It will get worse before it gets better. Get a plan of action going. Right now... .you are just spinning your wheel hun.

We are all here for you, ok? We are your friends too... .albeit Internet friends. But, we all understand. Even if it hurts... .the truths that people offer here are born of experience. We have all gone through this.   

[momtara]

ColdEthyl, well said.  HH, you are a great person. You deserve much better than this.  Please listen to what ColdEthyl said!

[formflier]

ColdEthyl, well said.  HH, you are a great person. You deserve much better than this.  Please listen to what ColdEthyl said!

I'm going to high five Momtara and coldethyl... .

HH... .you deserve much better than this... .take some time to sort things out... .

[eyvindr]

momtara --

This --

PS, people like this resent stability because then it makes their own problems make less sense.

Thank you -- I'm sure you weren't even trying, but that sums up, so accurately and concisely, something I've tortured myself to try to understand for years -- being, why do disordered, unstable or otherwise emotionally volatile people put so much energy into seeking out and establishing committed r-ships with partners who have very stable, even-tempered personalities, when they seem unwilling or incapable of having any semblance of a stable existence?

I'd gotten as far as comparing it to the whole "safe parent" syndrome that children experience -- but never to this level of crystallization. I'd always mistaken them choosing to be in a relationship with me as part of their stated intentions of having the life that they wanted, or had never had, or felt was denied to them -- instead of realizing that this is just who they are, and how they live, and it doesn't have anything to do with me. My presence has absolutely no bearing on what kind of life they lead -- they're just living the same life but with me, instead of someone else.

Thank you for this.

[momtara]

oh, your welcome!  Actually, a friend said this to me like 15 years ago.  I have a mother who's bipolar and now I have been wondering if she's borderline.  anyway, while my parents were married, my dad worked 2-3 jobs and my mom was always tearing down his jobs and making fun of him, but of course she wanted the money and she never could keep a job herself.  she always told him to quit these jobs, which was completely irrational.

Now *I* have been in the same job for 20 years and she makes fun of it and asks when I am going to quit.  I also have a brother who's a mess but he has lived in the same place for 5 years and she wants him to move.  A friend said to me a long time ago, it's frustrating for her because we are stable and she is not (she moves from place to place) and it makes no sense to her.  She typically says there are conspiracies etc. and that's why she can't work or stay in one place.  

So the friend said to me that she resents me and my stability because it makes her inability to have a stable life not make sense.  There is something to that.

[momtara]

as for HH, you were catastrophizing a bit (sp)... .you aren't going to lose your mom.  you can say to her, as to all of them, that you need time to focus on work and think about everything that's happened, and you just want everyone to be happy.  don't choose your wife over mom or mom over wife - no one who really cares makes you choose 1 thing you love over another.  your mom probably wants you to stop being hurt by her.  in any case, just be stern and succinct.  you won't blame yourself for that later, and neither can anyone else!

[hurthusband]

why i listen... i listen then get sucked in trying to defend myself or not be rude and just hang up which i was always taught was rude

[momtara]

Right.

So, don't start.  :)on't pick up the phone.  9 times out of ten, it's awful, and the 10th, it's sometimes ok then ends up worse because you defend yourself and that's used against you.

I don't like to hang up either - but when it goes on for past 5 minutes or becomes abusive, it's making things worse.  It's rude to run away from someone shooting you with a gun, but you'd do it, wouldn't you?

You know that talking to her during work makes things worse.  You know that.  You keep seeing it.  Don't answer.  Or answer once every 2 days or something.

You can warn your wife in advance, next time she does it, via text:  "Once you make an accusation or raise your voice, I will have to hang up in the future. I will not tolerate that as I  am not doing it to you."

Or just don't answer.  There is NO reason to have to talk to someone as often as you take her calls and texts, unless your kid is sick.  Same may go with your mom.

By the way:  www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/MomentsOfClarity.html

[hurthusband]

she is just crying in pain, but it seems like she wants me to get apologies out of people and hold them solely accountable.  Its not

a. they may not be sorry.  I think my mother knows its wrong.  She said she would probably do it again in same situation, but promised in future not to.  That is not the right attitude.

b. their perspective of seeing me hurt.  Everyone in my life does not like my wife and is angry nobody is protecting me...   not their business but she would do same for her kids... my wife that is. 

c. my wife just wants to harp on how i am not holding mother accountable.  What more can i do?  I cannot hold her and beat her for an apology.  I wasnt coming to work today and quitting job and she said to go. 

She does not want my mother to call her and she informed my mother if she did she would be harrassing according to the law.  She does not want to talk to my mother, but she does not want my mother to cut and the kids out of her life.  So i had my mother delete my wife from phone and promise not to contact her again.  My wife is upset saying she is abandoning her and kids.  My mother asks me about my kids all the time.  My wife says why doesnt your mom call them.  Her parents didnt know their phone numbers and... .

I am just tired.  I do not know what is up and down.  My wife was spinning out panicking and crying.  I hung up on her.  It was just how I am not holding anyone accountable.  I asked what she wanted and she said for me to come home tonight.  I asked what that has to do with my mother?

i am told i am just being mean and shifting blame to her... im sick

[formflier]

 

Please stop discussing your mother with your wife... .stop discussing your wife with your mom.  Just stop.  No explanation needed.


Why... .you are getting caught in the middle of the road between two apparently high strung women that are stomping and huffing and puffing about each other... .and trying to drag you into it.

What happens to people in the middle of the road... .yep... .road kill.

HH... .very concerned that on the one hand you are able to evaluate your emotional health... .and realize it is not good... .but on the other hand... .seem to not be able to enforce boundaries to take yourself out of the line of fire of the vitriol.

What kind of plan... .or practice... .can you do to make it easier to hang up at the first hint of vitriol? 

[hurthusband]

the question is what is vitriol and what is just expressing fear and not sure what to do?

[waverider]

Hi hurthusband

Can we take a step back for a little while, from day to day issues, to see what your own goals and direction here are.

You have done a thorough job of journalling your experiences. This an important part of recovery JournaL therapy.

The question is what has this now taught you and where you go from here?

The Staying Board is a good place to learn the tools to help stay within a relationship.These have been discussed and explored extensively. However it is a Board where some of the harder advise with regards to how to decide whether to, and carry through exiting from a toxic relationship is held back to avoid creating a negative impact on the board.

It is with this in mind that now is probably a good time to start asking yourself whether this is a time to think about whether the commitment or strength required to continue this relationship is still there or sustainable.

Have you visited the Undecided and Family Law Boards? These are both places were you can vent and get crisis advice which may shed a different perspective on what the the Staying Board can provide.

This may be what you need to prevent the endless treading water you find yourself in, which appears to be dragging you under. This is not telling you to leave, rather that sometimes being willing to, and knowing what is involved, gives us the strength to not be as affected and reactive to what is happening around us. The bigger picture if you like, currently you are blinded by what is right in front of your face on a day to day basis

Please take a look at these Boards and let us know your thoughts on whether this may benefit you or not.

We are here to help you break this cycle you find yourself stuck in.

Waverider

[hurthusband]

I suppose I need to check this out