When they promise and don't deliver...

[Cat Familiar]

My husband will often promise to do something or to pay for something and then completely "forget" about it. There have been so many times he has said that I should buy something for the ranch and that he'll give me a check. I thank him profusely and then I buy it with my own money and later no check is forthcoming. (It's almost as if the thanks are the endpoint for him--he just wants to be appreciated, but he doesn't want to follow through with his promise.) Because it's usually something that benefits me more than him, I don't mention it later, but it does irritate me. And at times, it's wrecked my monthly budget because I thought he really meant it.

If I were to ask later, then I'd likely be shamed for not managing money better and I'd like to avoid that conversation. Money is not the issue on his side--he has plenty. I live within strict budgetary guidelines, while he spends grandiose sums on his interests.

Likewise, he has agreed to be responsible for only a few household tasks. I do the rest. He did say he'd take care of the recycling, so I don't touch that. But it will stack up like a mountain of garbage, just outside the kitchen door and he will walk right past it without noticing. I've even knocked the stack over   so it spills into the walkway to see what happens and he'll just walk around it. 

If I ask him to take care of it, he gets huffy. Anybody have any suggestions?

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[ColdEthyl]

That's the next battle I'm going to start. My H makes a ton of promises and doesn't keep them. I've learned that... so I never give my hopes up anymore. When he says we are going to do something with the kids... .I never tell them anymore so if he flakes out... .they won't be disappointed.

I have absolutely no suggestions. I offer my empathy... .and eagerly await some ideas

[Cole]

That's the next battle I'm going to start. My H makes a ton of promises and doesn't keep them. I've learned that... so I never give my hopes up anymore. When he says we are going to do something with the kids... .I never tell them anymore so if he flakes out... .they won't be disappointed.

I have absolutely no suggestions. I offer my empathy... .and eagerly await some ideas

Change H to W and I could have written that myself. Nothing worse than when they promise the kids and do not deliver. Unfortunately, our kids at 9 and 11 already have figured out not to put a lot of faith in mom. 

[waverider]

You know this is likely to happen, as result you need to readjust the way you plan things.

The origins of this are in immediate gratification. To make the promise gives off a feeling of well being. This pleases the promiser and feels rewarding. However later once this "feel good" factor has passed and the task/chore needs to be undertaken the reward has already been reaped and hence interest has gone.

Where possible you need to try to organize things to encourage delayed gratification.

Ask for contributions and things they can do now rather than later so they can do the task and feel good after it is done rather than feel good simply by saying they are going to do it. Show them that gratification after completion is more rewarding than on a promise which is soured by a feeling of failure when you argue over it not being done.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm right there with you on this Cat! I would love to get some ideas too.

He has been a little better of late. I have been a bit passive aggressive. He said he was going to empty the dishwasher but said that the dishes were still too wet. I said, "Oh, that's okay. I didn't figure you would do it. I knew the dishes would still be too wet." I couldn't believe it. I got home and he had dried them and put it away.

Today, he said he was going to go to the store. I was trying to create a list and started in with this helpless thing that he does. I said, "Oh, don't worry about it. If it is too hard for you to figure out, I'll take care of it." I wasn't trying to be mean but it was something that we have discussed a lot. He will make promises to do something and then forget or not do it or come up with some kind of excuse about how he didn't know or wasn't sure.

I don't know if it is right but it feels like I am validating his excuses before he even makes them. It seems to be working a little.

[waverider]

Have you tried making a fuss over what they have done, and making little fuss over what they say they are going to do? You approval and appreciation is part of their gratification

[vortex of confusion]

Have you tried making a fuss over what they have done, and making little fuss over what they say they are going to do? You approval and appreciation is part of their gratification

One of the problems that I have run into is that I do make a fuss over what he does but it isn't enough. No matter how many times I say thank you or show my appreciation, he will go fishing for more. He wants praise and the more praise I give him the more he wants it. I try to say thank you and let him know that I appreciate what he actually does.

I have gotten to a point where it is really difficult for me to praise him sincerely so I have cut way back on it. I used to be one of those that would post stuff like "My husband is wonderful. He made me breakfast and blah, blah, blah." It created a situation where it gave him this false illusion that everything was great between us and that he didn't have to do anything. If he did something small, I was expected to fall all over myself praising him.

[flowerpath]

I never realized that simply making a promise would feel so rewarding, but that makes sense.  I rarely expect him to actually follow through with what he says he will do, and this helps me to understand why he doesn’t.  

Money?   Whoo boy.  Over the past few months, a little at the time, he withdrew an amount that’s over a month’s salary from our checking account (the extra he was making from a raise) to put it away, “so it won’t get wasted” he said, so we would have it available to pay for some upcoming large expenses.  Over half of it disappeared.  It’s just plain gone.  I really hoped that he could be disciplined and follow through, but I was not at all surprised at what happened.   He was almost speechless. He couldn’t explain it.   He actually said “somebody” (a.k.a. flowerpath) TOOK it!

While paying off a bill is rewarding to me, it must have been rewarding enough for him to just speak the good intention of doing it.    

[flowerpath]

This is sorta about making a big fuss.

I had an interesting experience last weekend after buying a car load of groceries.  My H was the only person at home.  I wanted some help unloading everything, but I dreaded asking him, “Can you please help me unload the groceries?”  His response is almost always the same when I ask if he can help unload groceries.  He grudgingly says yes, then gripes, grunts, and sounds out of breath the whole time.   

I thought about how he acts as though he’s barely able to do it.  So instead I asked, “Are you able to help unload the groceries?”   He immediately said yes, and helped without a single complaint!

 

It seemed like shifting the content of the question so that it focused on him in way that could be positive made a difference. 

[Grey Kitty]

I'm thinking next time he offers to pay you back for something, don't accept the offer.

Perhaps you can redirect it to a chance for him to buy it directly, or you can ask for a way to pay for it directly with his funds.

Does he ever follow through?


I also like waverider's idea--giving 10X the gratitude and praise for followthrough than what you give him for a promise.

[waverider]

This is sorta about making a big fuss.

I had an interesting experience last weekend after buying a car load of groceries.  My H was the only person at home.  I wanted some help unloading everything, but I dreaded asking him, “Can you please help me unload the groceries?”  His response is almost always the same when I ask if he can help unload groceries.  He grudgingly says yes, then gripes, grunts, and sounds out of breath the whole time.   

I thought about how he acts as though he’s barely able to do it.  So instead I asked, “Are you able to help unload the groceries?”   He immediately said yes, and helped without a single complaint!

 

It seemed like shifting the content of the question so that it focused on him in way that could be positive made a difference. 

This is good to, then he gets the chance to prove himself... as long as your aren't sarcastic when you say it.


When it comes to giving praise don't go overboard or you will set a precedent and it will become the sole purpose for doing anything. The important thing is not giving rewards for merely promising, otherwise you immediately meet his need.

[Cat Familiar]

That's the next battle I'm going to start. My H makes a ton of promises and doesn't keep them. I've learned that... so I never give my hopes up anymore. When he says we are going to do something with the kids... .I never tell them anymore so if he flakes out... .they won't be disappointed.

I have absolutely no suggestions. I offer my empathy... .and eagerly await some ideas

That would be really rough to watch the effect of his broken promises on your kids. Yep, never getting one's hopes up seems like a good strategy.

As many times as I've been burned on this topic, I've naively believed him. I guess it's because when I say I'm going to do something, I try my best to follow through and if I don't, I feel really bad and I keep thinking about it until I either do what I said, or have the conversation with the person I promised and tell them why I can't along with a sincere apology and perhaps another way I could help them.

[Cat Familiar]

You know this is likely to happen, as result you need to readjust the way you plan things.

The origins of this are in immediate gratification. To make the promise gives off a feeling of well being. This pleases the promiser and feels rewarding. However later once this "feel good" factor has passed and the task/chore needs to be undertaken the reward has already been reaped and hence interest has gone.

Where possible you need to try to organize things to encourage delayed gratification.

Ask for contributions and things they can do now rather than later so they can do the task and feel good after it is done rather than feel good simply by saying they are going to do it. Show them that gratification after completion is more rewarding than on a promise which is soured by a feeling of failure when you argue over it not being done.

Yes, palm meet forehead. OK, I'm not going to believe his words anymore, only his actions. And only his actions will get thanks. Last night he actually cooked dinner! It was probably the first time this year. I thanked him profusely and he did a really good job.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm right there with you on this Cat! I would love to get some ideas too.

He has been a little better of late. I have been a bit passive aggressive. He said he was going to empty the dishwasher but said that the dishes were still too wet. I said, "Oh, that's okay. I didn't figure you would do it. I knew the dishes would still be too wet." I couldn't believe it. I got home and he had dried them and put it away.

Today, he said he was going to go to the store. I was trying to create a list and started in with this helpless thing that he does. I said, "Oh, don't worry about it. If it is too hard for you to figure out, I'll take care of it." I wasn't trying to be mean but it was something that we have discussed a lot. He will make promises to do something and then forget or not do it or come up with some kind of excuse about how he didn't know or wasn't sure.

I don't know if it is right but it feels like I am validating his excuses before he even makes them. It seems to be working a little.

Wow, Vortex! Good work! I like that concept of validating his excuses. The "helpless thing that he does"  -- my husband has that issue about going to the grocery store--like it's really something traumatic.

"Oh, don't worry about it. If it is too hard for you to figure out, I'll take care of it." I love it! Of course, you may feel like you're being passive aggressive, but it may not come across that way to them.

My husband is what I call a "polarity person."  If I tell him that he did something good, then he'll argue how flawed it is. Likewise if I'm critical about something, he'll defend it vigorously. (Lately I have endeavored to be critical about nothing in his presence and it has certainly helped keep the peace.)

[Cat Familiar]

This is sorta about making a big fuss.

I had an interesting experience last weekend after buying a car load of groceries.  My H was the only person at home.  I wanted some help unloading everything, but I dreaded asking him, “Can you please help me unload the groceries?”  His response is almost always the same when I ask if he can help unload groceries.  He grudgingly says yes, then gripes, grunts, and sounds out of breath the whole time.   

I thought about how he acts as though he’s barely able to do it.  So instead I asked, “Are you able to help unload the groceries?”   He immediately said yes, and helped without a single complaint!

 

It seemed like shifting the content of the question so that it focused on him in way that could be positive made a difference. 

This is similar to Vortex's strategy of validating excuses. There's an implied question of their abilities. If they don't take up the challenge, it indicates that they agree that they're incompetent. Very interesting.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm thinking next time he offers to pay you back for something, don't accept the offer.

Perhaps you can redirect it to a chance for him to buy it directly, or you can ask for a way to pay for it directly with his funds.

Does he ever follow through?


I also like waverider's idea--giving 10X the gratitude and praise for followthrough than what you give him for a promise.

I did that yesterday--refused his offer. Occasionally he will surprise me and give me some money out of the blue when he realizes that I've been needing to spend a lot. It happens maybe three or four times a year. And I'm definitely not going to give him any thanks for merely a promise!

I've got a new strategy that at first I felt uncomfortable implementing, but now I think I'll try. He just recently got an American Express card (one of those fancy ones with concierge services) and he gave me one too. The reason he got it is that he would like to do some world traveling. I don't go anywhere during fire season, which lasts several months in California, because I need to be able to evacuate the animals if a fire were heading our way. Years ago I had to ride my horses through a fire, burning on both sides of the road and overhead in the tree canopy, which has left me with a bit of PTSD.

So, I thought of the credit card as a nice emergency card if he were out of town and I needed to buy something. Lately I've seen him buying stuff, like scheduling a photographic seminar for a week in another state and buying lodging and transportation. So, next trip to the big box store, I'm going to use the credit card and stock up on food and supplies. Previously I used my money for this, but I can justify using the card if it's something for both of us or a repair on the property. 

[Cat Familiar]

When it comes to giving praise don't go overboard or you will set a precedent and it will become the sole purpose for doing anything. The important thing is not giving rewards for merely promising, otherwise you immediately meet his need.

Oops, i went overboard praising him for making spaghetti sauce last night. It really was good, but I don't want to set a precedent of overpraising him.

[Grey Kitty]

Lately I've seen him buying stuff, like scheduling a photographic seminar for a week in another state and buying lodging and transportation. So, next trip to the big box store, I'm going to use the credit card and stock up on food and supplies. Previously I used my money for this, but I can justify using the card if it's something for both of us or a repair on the property. 

I'm going to caution you here. You don't know what he was expecting you to do when he gave you the card, and you don't know how those expectations shifted in his head either.

You might *think* that if he starts using it in a different way than originally planned, that would mean that he would expect you to follow his lead.

Err... .there are a LOT of things that a pwBPD will do to you, and then blow a gasket if you do the same... .

I'd recommend introducing him to the idea of you using the card intentionally... .maybe ask him about it ahead... .or maybe 'intentionally' go out and not have cash/checkbook/whatever for a reasonable purchase, whip out the card, and then say something to him about it when you get home.

[vortex of confusion]

Yes, palm meet forehead. OK, I'm not going to believe his words anymore, only his actions. And only his actions will get thanks.

Exactly! When he says he is going to do something, I simply say, "Okay." Or, I might say, "That sounds like a good idea/plan." I acknowledge that I heard him and that it is a good idea but I don't believe a single word of it.

I have to be very mindful though because my husband has a tendency to tell me he is going to do something over and over. He will spend several weeks telling me that he is going to do something yet not follow through. Most of the time, I keep my cool and simply acknowledge that I heard him say that he intended to do something. Every now and then, I will lose it and tell him, "I don't want to hear another word about that. You have been talking about doing that for weeks now. I am not going to believe that you are going to do it until I see it done." That was an incident involving him telling me that he was going to mow the grass for about a month. He would spend all week talking about how he was going to mow the upcoming weekend. The weekend would come and go and it wouldn't happen. After a month of a crappy looking yard and his excuses and intentions, I flipped my lid. I am glad that this thread came up as he is telling me that he is going to trim the bushes. He has been telling me that for the last several days and I am trying to keep my cool so that I am okay whether it happens or not.

[Cat Familiar]

Grey Kitty, you're right, I don't want to surprise him by using the card unexpectedly. I might just play upon his polarity personality and say, "You probably don't want me to use it when I go to the big box store tomorrow." We'll see what he says... .

Vortex, want to take bets on when the bushes get trimmed? 

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, want to take bets on when the bushes get trimmed? 

I'm not taking any bets because it can go either way with him. Every time we have gone to sit on the porch, he will start going on and on about trimming the bushes. I know this pattern. Something is liable to come up and he won't do it and then he will say that he is going to do it the next time we get a warm day and the cycle will continue. Before I leave for work, I am thinking about telling him, "Oh, if you don't get the bushes trimmed today, don't worry about it. I know how hard it is to get stuff done when you have kids under foot." If I do that, then the likelihood of him doing it will go up.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, and "you must be so overwhelmed with all that you do, I can't even imagine how you'd find time to trim the bushes."   I'm practicing this strategy so that I'll be more competent when I need to use it.

Or "that's such a difficult job that I wouldn't want you to overdo it and be exhausted."

Or "you've been pretty sedentary this winter, maybe we should hire a professional so that you don't hurt yourself."

I'm descending into snark now, but it's a lot of fun.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm descending into snark now, but it's a lot of fun.

Get all of that snark out of your system here so you can say things nicely and productively when talking to him. Must remember to NOT be snarky.

Reminds me of something I saw on FB the other day.

sargasm: When the urge to make a sarcastic reply is so overwhelming that all you can do is roll your eyes and grunt incoherently.

I think one of the most challenging parts of keeping things peaceful is to refrain from saying things in a sarcastic or snarky tone. When I slip up, it makes things worse.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, it's a very good outlet to be able to have a snark fest here. I have to be on my best behavior with him because he is so ultra-sensitive to criticism. He can think I'm criticizing him if I say the room is too warm. 

[Cat Familiar]

Wow, Grey Kitty, you were absolutely right! 

Let the shaming games begin!

I asked if I could use the American Express credit card for my big grocery run at Costco tomorrow and it turned into him yelling, "How much money do you need a month, $10 thousand, $50 thousand?" I immediately painted myself black and said how sorry I was for being so bad at managing money (thinking "you ass, this is for our groceries," but not letting any of that express on my face--I have a great poker face--it's come in handy all my life).

Then he proceeds to tell me how he gave me extra money last month. (He didn't.) And I offer to show him my checkbook. (He doesn't want to see it.) I bring it out anyway and read the column with deposits and it becomes obvious that this is one of his promises that he didn't deliver on. He said that he was going to give me extra to pay off my credit card balance, but it didn't happen then as he imagined it had.

So he gave me a check today. I guess I'll pay for the groceries with my checkbook rather than his credit card.

[vortex of confusion]

Let the shaming games begin!

I asked if I could use the American Express credit card for my big grocery run at Costco tomorrow and it turned into him yelling, "How much money do you need a month, $10 thousand, $50 thousand?" I immediately painted myself black and said how sorry I was for being so bad at managing money (thinking "you ass, this is for our groceries," but not letting any of that express on my face--I have a great poker face--it's come in handy all my life).

Hmmm, why did you paint yourself black? Do you feel like you are really bad at managing money? If not, then don't say it. I have done this type of thing before too but it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy because I do NOT think those things about myself. And, I think it could possibly lead to low self esteem. At least it has for me. I feel like I have said stuff like that enough and have actually started believing it at a gut level. In the past, I have told myself, "Maybe I am that bad. Maybe that explains why he reacts like that." (I know that isn't the case now that I know about PD but it isn't something that is easy for me to untangle within myself.

[Cat Familiar]

Hmmm, why did you paint yourself black? Do you feel like you are really bad at managing money? If not, then don't say it. I have done this type of thing before too but it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy because I do NOT think those things about myself. And, I think it could possibly lead to low self esteem. At least it has for me. I feel like I have said stuff like that enough and have actually started believing it at a gut level. In the past, I have told myself, "Maybe I am that bad. Maybe that explains why he reacts like that." (I know that isn't the case now that I know about PD but it isn't something that is easy for me to untangle within myself.

No, I don't think I'm bad at managing money. It's just that I pay for repairs, food, animal expenses, handyman, etc. He pays for all his fun toys, but he does take us out to dinner a few times a month and if there's a major repair, he will pay for that. My monthly "allowance" gets really stretched thin some months.

I've discovered that if I paint myself black immediately, he will disagree and take responsibility. It also immediately stops the shaming. How can you shame someone when they're agreeing with you? You'd have to be a real a$$hole to continue with the verbal abuse. After I showed him that he hadn't given me the money he thought he had, he said that he'd have to get better about remembering to do it.

I do have a bit of an issue with money since I'm not currently earning any. However, it was my money that allowed us to build this monstrosity of a house and now I have a lot of equity in the real estate, but very little in my investment accounts.

[Cat Familiar]

OK, yesterday was a bit of ugliness that quickly smoothed over and didn't color the rest of the day. Thanks to all of you and these boards, I was able to get back on track and not throw gasoline on the fire. And soon my husband and I were comfortable and happy with each other.

Understanding what I now do about BPD, it makes so much sense why previously I'd get into horrible arguments. For me, logic explains everything. For pwBPD, emotions overpower any logical abilities they possess. I sort of intuitively understood this about my mother, but it was difficult to recognize in my husband, who is so intelligent and logical when he's not dysregulating.

The underlying issue that came to the forefront was him recognizing that he had not delivered on a promise and he intuited that I was used to that. He did this all on his own and I was disciplined enough to not say anything so that he could draw his own conclusions. Whew! 

[vortex of confusion]

The underlying issue that came to the forefront was him recognizing that he had not delivered on a promise and he intuited that I was used to that. He did this all on his own and I was disciplined enough to not say anything so that he could draw his own conclusions. Whew! 

That is progress! Finding ways to help them be more self aware without adding fuel to the fire is tricky.

I would also like to report that I came home from work and the bushes were trimmed AND the whole front yard was mowed. And, he got out a bigger bike for one of the kids and she can now ride a bike. Woohoo!

It was really cute though. When I pulled in the driveway after work yesterday, he came up to the car before I could even get out. ":)id you see what I did to the yard? What do you think?"

Me: It looks awesome honey. Let me go put my stuff up and I will come sit with you on the porch.

When I went and sat with him, I validated the heck out of him. It looked awesome. I really like driving up to our house when it looks good like this. You must be tired, you worked your butt off. Every last bit of it was very sincere and I think that makes all of the difference.

I don't know if I said or did anything that contributed to him doing it. I am going to enjoy it while I can because it is subject to change without warning.

[ColdEthyl]

Have you tried making a fuss over what they have done, and making little fuss over what they say they are going to do? You approval and appreciation is part of their gratification

I do that. Whenever he does do something, I tell him thank you, and I appreciate it, etc etc. When he doesn't do something, I don't mention it, or just say that's ok... .no biggie.

When I have given him high praise for completing a task, sometimes he will remark I don't have to be that thankful... .almost like either A... .I'm putting too much stank on it or B... .the gratitude makes him uncomfortable.