Do we feel guilty about the thoughts and feelings we have?

[lever.]

Hello again.

In reply to your question.

It is a long time since my DD has been physically abusive to me.

I used to just accept it or even cover for it.

Now I would walk out or even phone the police.

Thinking back it was after I called the police that it stopped.

It is easier now as she no longer lives with me-but I don't think she would hit me or physically attack me now-she has made a lot of progress.

What I am afraid of is the nasty way she can speak to me and the way she can use contact with my GC-also the havoc she can cause in my relationships with other family members.

I need to work on boundaries and feeling the fear but pausing and responding rather than reacting.

I don't feel as guilty about feeling fear asI do about feeling anger.

Perhaps I should rethink this.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[eileen11]

Gosh lbjnltx, you ask very hard questions.  Never really thought about difference between reacting and responding before.  But I think reacting is very personal to us and what is going on for us whereas responding is taking account of where someone else is at

[lbjnltx]

Gosh lbjnltx, you ask very hard questions.  Never really thought about difference between reacting and responding before.  But I think reacting is very personal to us and what is going on for us whereas responding is taking account of where someone else is at

Thanks for responding eileen11

It has been my experience (over and over and over again ) that reactions are emotionally driven and come from how I experience what someone else puts out... .how I am affected by their words, body language, tone, intentions... .and often times comes from a victim mentality.

Responding is deliberate, thought out, goal oriented, and (hopefully) comes from a wise mind mentality.  Responding is a choice and comes from a place of balance and empowerment.

Reacting to positive things/news is usually fine... .like your BPD child tells you they got a promotion... .you react by saying "Awesome!"  All is well.

Reacting to negative things/news is usually not fine... .like your BPD child tells you they got fired from yet another job... .you react by saying "Oh no not again!" your child says "see... .I knew you don't believe in me."

Learning the skills to manage our emotions (triggers) and our thoughts gives us the opportunities daily to respond in place of react. 

How many times have we had to apologize for a reaction? Justify our reactions?

How many times have we had to apologize for our responses?  Further explanation or conversation may be needed... .and not justified.

lbj

[lever.]

I've been giving this a bit more thought with regard to fear.

When my DD triggers my fear button if I react I immediately start to placate her-which only reinforces what she is doing.

Just as with anger I think I need to stay with the fear for a few minutes and think what response would be most helpful.

Also to recognize that I can't control or fix things-if she wants to alienate other family members or withdraw contact with GC I will just have to go with that.

Strange how I feel more guilty if I express anger and yet my fear responses are just as unhelpful.


Boundaries are important.

[lbjnltx]

I've been giving this a bit more thought with regard to fear.

When my DD triggers my fear button if I react I immediately start to placate her-which only reinforces what she is doing.

Just as with anger I think I need to stay with the fear for a few minutes and think what response would be most helpful.

Also to recognize that I can't control or fix things-if she wants to alienate other family members or withdraw contact with GC I will just have to go with that.

Strange how I feel more guilty if I express anger and yet my fear responses are just as unhelpful.


Boundaries are important.

As you wrote... .fear based reactions placate her. Because these reactions don't challenge her unhealthy behaviors or thinking errors they serve her and you in the moment... .

Guilt externalized (angry reaction) versus guilt internalized (living with the knowledge that our reaction is not holding us or our child accountable and continues to  fuel the unhealthy)

Thoughts?

lbj

[lever.]

I think it is all connected with my idea of what a "nice" person is ie non-confrontational, turns the other cheek-and also a selfish fear of her rages.

I am getting some insight on here and learning about not placating.

Strange though how some unhelpful thoughts and feelings have led me to feel guilty whilst others have led me to think that I was being a "good" person.

Again an example how a dispassionate appraisal of our own behavior is more helpful than an emotionally driven guilt response.

[lbjnltx]

I think it is all connected with my idea of what a "nice" person is ie non-confrontational, turns the other cheek-and also a selfish fear of her rages.

I am getting some insight on here and learning about not placating.

Strange though how some unhelpful thoughts and feelings have led me to feel guilty whilst others have led me to think that I was being a "good" person.

Again an example how a dispassionate appraisal of our own behavior is more helpful than an emotionally driven guilt response.

Ah yes lever... .our belief systems mold us and our behaviors.

If I told you that I believe that if someone truly loves and cares about me they will hold me accountable for my thoughts, feelings, reactions, actions, lack of action, etc... .how would you feel?

lbj

[BWire]

Guilty is not a word I would use to describe how I feel about my sometimes thoughts/feelings. I believe my thoughts and feelings are symptoms of my own instincts or exhaustion. So using my best DBT skills - the same ones I am hoping and expecting my daughter to use when she is overwhelmed with her own thoughts and feelings - I accept the feelings and thoughts, and then move on to making productive use of them.

Sometimes that productive use is to step back and do some self care - take a break, distract myself with other activities. Sometimes the productive use is to take action - to call my daughters doctors and let them know what is going on, what might be triggering my reaction and is it something that needs addressing.

There's more than enough to feel guilty about as a parent of a BPD child - mostly for me its the myriad of ways I contributed to creating an invalidating environment even though that was not my intention.  So let's not add to our guilt pile with guilt over thoughts and feelings.

Someone wise once said:  You are not responsible for your thoughts/feelings, just for how long you keep them. Love that.

[lbjnltx]

Guilty is not a word I would use to describe how I feel about my sometimes thoughts/feelings. I believe my thoughts and feelings are symptoms of my own instincts or exhaustion. So using my best DBT skills - the same ones I am hoping and expecting my daughter to use when she is overwhelmed with her own thoughts and feelings - I accept the feelings and thoughts, and then move on to making productive use of them.

Sometimes that productive use is to step back and do some self care - take a break, distract myself with other activities. Sometimes the productive use is to take action - to call my daughters doctors and let them know what is going on, what might be triggering my reaction and is it something that needs addressing.

There's more than enough to feel guilty about as a parent of a BPD child - mostly for me its the myriad of ways I contributed to creating an invalidating environment even though that was not my intention.  So let's not add to our guilt pile with guilt over thoughts and feelings.

Someone wise once said:  You are not responsible for your thoughts/feelings, just for how long you keep them. Love that.

Forgiving ones self for mistakes made in the past and asking the person we may have harmed by making those mistakes takes the power that guilt holds over us out of the picture.

If I am not responsible for my own thoughts and feelings who is?  Do I have the power to choose what I believe, value, desire, fear, etc... .if so... .then am I not responsible for the thoughts and feelings that are borne from them?

Interesting post BWire!

[easternmom]

In answer to jbl's questions as to how boundary setting would help in other situations I am facing guilt:

- "I feel guilty to my oldest daughter for not sufficiently supporting her for the longest time, and thinking "this is just puberty". I have never spoken to her about it, and will think of a way to do it without voicing my fears about my youngest."

Though I can't talk to her about it, I might be able to model a different way of handling my youngest one's outbursts.

- "I feel guilty about the fact that my youngest has decided she wants to live with my parents for a while next year to get to know them a bit better... .and I am not protecting her and them from the potential that this will harm their relationship."

Pff... .this is a tough one... .I don't think I can: I can't organise boundaries FOR other people to set. My parents will not understand, my daughter doesn't see the problem. They will have to experience it themselves. And maybe things will improve and it will actually work out?

- "I feel guilty about sometimes thinking about the possibility that I might have to ask my youngest, who has recently turned adult, to leave the house... ."

Maybe this would be the most extreme form of boundary setting. I hope I will be able to handle our relationship to the point that it will not be needed. But the fear, and the guilt over the thought will remain.

E

[lever.]

lbj-the honest answer is that I would feel fearful and over-faced-but I know you are correct-I need to use the DBT skills to cope with my own emotions.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

In answer to jbl's questions as to how boundary setting would help in other situations I am facing guilt:

- "I feel guilty to my oldest daughter for not sufficiently supporting her for the longest time, and thinking "this is just puberty". I have never spoken to her about it, and will think of a way to do it without voicing my fears about my youngest."

Though I can't talk to her about it, I might be able to model a different way of handling my youngest one's outbursts.

Let your oldest watch you set boundaries with your youngest and vice versa... .my daughter found lessons easier to learn as a 3rd party.  So yes... that would be modeling a different way of handling outbursts.

- "I feel guilty about the fact that my youngest has decided she wants to live with my parents for a while next year to get to know them a bit better... .and I am not protecting her and them from the potential that this will harm their relationship."

Pff... .this is a tough one... .I don't think I can: I can't organise boundaries FOR other people to set. My parents will not understand, my daughter doesn't see the problem. They will have to experience it themselves. And maybe things will improve and it will actually work out?

It may be very important for you to set boundaries so that you don't end up in an unhealthy triangle... .parents complain to you about daughter... .daughter complains to you about grandparents... .you are in the middle getting it from both sides.  Learn about triangulation and how to move to the center... .

- "I feel guilty about sometimes thinking about the possibility that I might have to ask my youngest, who has recently turned adult, to leave the house... ."

Maybe this would be the most extreme form of boundary setting. I hope I will be able to handle our relationship to the point that it will not be needed. But the fear, and the guilt over the thought will remain.

There are many boundaries that can be set to keep the most extreme boundary from having to be enforced.   

Remember... .boundaries are set and enforced to protect ourselves AND our relationships.

lbj

[lbjnltx]

lbj-the honest answer is that I would feel fearful and over-faced-but I know you are correct-I need to use the DBT skills to cope with my own emotions.

That's it in a nutshell isn't lever.

First we behave as we want our disordered children to behave.  If we want them to be calm and think rationally we must first be calm and think rationally. 

If we want them to use skills to cope we must first use skills to cope.

If we want them to take the initiative to learn skills we must first take the initiative to learn skills.

Be a living example for them to follow!

Accepting that we need to change first may feel unjust... .yet it is for our own good... .our children's good... .our family's good that we do it.

lbj