Two weeks, still no back rub...

[Depression = 72% of members]

So it's been a while now, over two weeks really, since I've asked my BPDh for a back rub.  He will not/can't seem to oblige.  We've talked about it extensively, he's tried to use it as leverage to get me to break a boundary of my own (which I have been strong to stand by), but still no effort on his part to make it happen.  He will say 'you still want that back rub?', and I say 'yep, whenever you're ready', and it doesn't go any farther than that.

I dont think this is really an issue about sex.  It's about him being unable to hear requests of mine, respect them and respond accordingly.  Is this the BPD in him?  We've been working hard together, blowing the snow from our driveway and lane (it's a very big job, more than .6kms worth and we only have a walk behind blower.)  I'm doing as much as he is, and one day, he commented that he noticed I had a technique that he didn't use, that he was going to adopt, because it seemed to make things go faster.

I watched him as he took his turn.  He never used my technique at all.      Why would he have said what he did if he wasn't going to do what he said he was going to do?  It's so confusing.  It's perhaps because it came from me.  He seems to have some blockage in this regard.  Things, ideas, thoughts that come from me are thrown aside as irrelevant, unimportant, or 'not really what I mean' or something.  I don't know what goes on in his mind.  But I realized it's the same issue with the back rub... .it's my idea, so it isn't 'worth' doing, to him somehow.

For me, I know that this has been a strong contributor to my lack of self confidence, and I've been on the alert lately, for things that are bringing me down so that I am prepared and can arm myself to deflect the negativity.  But this one has me baffled.

The more time I spend isolated with my h, the lower my esteem drops... .I'm seeing this pattern now.  So, from what I've read, I need to focus on outside sources to fill this need to be validated for my contributions.

I contribute often and well, and am respected for it, in my volunteer work.  I feel like I can make a contribution of some sort here, even if it means just sharing my own experiences.  My kids listen and respect my opinions and advice, and I've done well this year at rekindling friendships that I've neglected in the past.  So I've got places to lean on, when I need to feel validated, or find that my esteem is poor.

It sure would help our r/s, tho, if sometimes, he would, even just sometimes, validate my thoughts and ideas.  And saying it, and not acting on it doesn't count. 

Does anyone else struggle with this? 

Is this just the BPD ego protecting itself from being harmed?  Or is my h really a selfish pr!ck like he says he is?

[Crumbling]

So it's been a while now, over two weeks really, since I've asked my BPDh for a back rub.  He will not/can't seem to oblige.  We've talked about it extensively, he's tried to use it as leverage to get me to break a boundary of my own (which I have been strong to stand by), but still no effort on his part to make it happen.  He will say 'you still want that back rub?', and I say 'yep, whenever you're ready', and it doesn't go any farther than that.

I dont think this is really an issue about sex.  It's about him being unable to hear requests of mine, respect them and respond accordingly.  Is this the BPD in him?  We've been working hard together, blowing the snow from our driveway and lane (it's a very big job, more than .6kms worth and we only have a walk behind blower.)  I'm doing as much as he is, and one day, he commented that he noticed I had a technique that he didn't use, that he was going to adopt, because it seemed to make things go faster.

I watched him as he took his turn.  He never used my technique at all.      Why would he have said what he did if he wasn't going to do what he said he was going to do?  It's so confusing.  It's perhaps because it came from me.  He seems to have some blockage in this regard.  Things, ideas, thoughts that come from me are thrown aside as irrelevant, unimportant, or 'not really what I mean' or something.  I don't know what goes on in his mind.  But I realized it's the same issue with the back rub... .it's my idea, so it isn't 'worth' doing, to him somehow.

For me, I know that this has been a strong contributor to my lack of self confidence, and I've been on the alert lately, for things that are bringing me down so that I am prepared and can arm myself to deflect the negativity.  But this one has me baffled.

The more time I spend isolated with my h, the lower my esteem drops... .I'm seeing this pattern now.  So, from what I've read, I need to focus on outside sources to fill this need to be validated for my contributions.

I contribute often and well, and am respected for it, in my volunteer work.  I feel like I can make a contribution of some sort here, even if it means just sharing my own experiences.  My kids listen and respect my opinions and advice, and I've done well this year at rekindling friendships that I've neglected in the past.  So I've got places to lean on, when I need to feel validated, or find that my esteem is poor.

It sure would help our r/s, tho, if sometimes, he would, even just sometimes, validate my thoughts and ideas.  And saying it, and not acting on it doesn't count. 

Does anyone else struggle with this? 

Is this just the BPD ego protecting itself from being harmed?  Or is my h really a selfish pr!ck like he says he is?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Crumbling,

It can be frustrating to wait on change in a BPD r/s.  Hang in there!

My take

You have taken a stand... .you have been clear... .  It seems to me that you have made an emotionally healthy request... .in an emotionally healthy way... .in other words... .you have kept your side of the street clean.

Whether or not your husband chooses to sweep up his side of the street is up to him. 

You job is to try to remain centered in the meantime.

Hang in there!   

[Cat Familiar]

Crumbling, I'm sorry you haven't gotten your back rub yet.

I hear you about your husband's refusal to try your snowblowing strategy. I have a similar issue. If I'm experienced and capable at doing something and my husband isn't, G-d forbid that he learn something from me.   It's just too damaging to his ego. However, if someone else shows him something, he's all ears.

I'm glad you have other contexts where your contributions are appreciated. Your comments are pithy and I enjoy them.

[Crumbling]

Thanks, FF, Cat.      I'm keeping focused on the positives, being patient, and really, honestly, expecting nothing. 

We talked about it again today, and he tried to claim it's an issue of 'battling egos'.  I told him it didn't feel that way to me, more like an opportunity for him to prove he is capable of hearing and responding to a very reasonable request, on my behalf.  I also told him that at no time do I want him to do it, if it doesn't feel right for him.  He has to want to do it, or it won't feel right for me. 

Cat, I read your post about the same issue, with household chores, after I posted mine with the snowblower incident.  And just smiled.  Your thread answered a lot of questions for me in my situation!  Sometimes the answers are right there, if you just know where to look!    

We are married to the same man, I'm sure!

blessings,

c.

[Notwendy]

 I don't see it as an issue of battling egos but I think they do. I think they see themselves as losing something if they do something that someone asks them to. My H generally resists doing something if I ask him. I think I he feels submissive if he does. I think their "winning" this "battle of egos"must feel validating to them.

I also think that they feel disconected in a sense and so may not be able to connect with someone's joy when they receive something nice.

I sence that my H can't experience the true joy of giving and that it at some level feels like a loss to them. I think there is another kind of giving: I give to you in order to get or look like a good guy. There's another kind that I think is possible to experience- the "it is better to give than to receive" kind where the giver feels joy.

My H is generous and part of this is that he wants to be a good H and father. But that " I give to you because it gives me joy" - I don't know if he sees it that way.

[Crumbling]

We had a good discussion about what makes a 'successful' marriage while laying in bed last night.  

Here are some of the things we identified:

- staying devoted, i.e. no cheating

- longevity

- commitment from both partners to make it work

- bringing out the best in each other

- being able to work together, laugh together and walk though life together with respect and kindness.

Then we both just laid there.  He finally had the courage to say what both of us were thinking -

"I guess we haven't been all that successful at our marriage, have we?".  :)ING DING DING!

Give the lad a prize!

I just said, "well, that's why I think that things need to change."  

This just may be baby steps, but it feels like progress.

[Cat Familiar]

I think pwBPD frame things as a "loss" if they have to give something because they're asked to do it. My H is always thinking in terms of win/lose, while I think win/win.

When we first got together, I bought a massage table, thinking how nice it would be to give and get massages. I gave massages but it never occurred to him to ask if I wanted one. A rotator cuff injury led to me stopping the massages, and still he didn't ask if I might be helped through a massage. Months later, I gave the massage table to my physical therapist as a thank you gift and he was really disappointed to see it leave.

[Crumbling]

It happened!  I actually got my back rub yesterday, and he did a FANTASTIC job!  About three minutes into it, he says "this is fun, I don't know what took me so long to agree to this." 

It turned into a super good day, with good sex for both of us.   

... .then this morning he mentioned he has a stiff neck.  He said 'A neck rub would be nice', with a little wink.  I winked back and said, 'Okay, I'll schedule that for two-three weeks from now.'  He laughed and I hugged him. 

I guess this is what makes BPD r/s's so difficult... .absolutely great when things are good, or unbearably horrid when things are bad. 

blessings to all,

c.

[Notwendy]

Good for you crumbling- I am glad you had a good day with your H. Hopefully he feels rewarded too. My H will give a backrub as he realizes it leads to something good for him too.

I wonder what "normal" relationships are like- where people are nice to each other in general without that awful part. I think the highs in a r/s with pwBPD are what attracts people to them, but I also think absence of the lows in more healthy relationships would be attractive too.

I wonder what normal is because I don't think I experienced much of it. Sometimes I am out shopping and come across something that I know someone I care about would like- not a big thing, not a codependent giving, but just something like seeing a T shirt that I know one of my kids would love, and I just get it for them, no strings attached. That has never happened with my own mom. Or, if I know a friend isn't feeling well, I would ask if they need anything, and I have friends who do the same for me.

I get the backrub thing. I do wish my H would just occasionally do something like the dishes, or make the bed, because it would be a nice thing to do. I appreciate what he does for me and the family, but have let go of those kind of wishes.

[Crumbling]

 

Like FF said, I just kept my side of the street clean - I put it out on the table, I did a lot of validating, I didn't reward him for promising to do it, nor did I roll my eyes... .I would just smile in response and say how great it was going to feel, then end with, 'but just when you feel ready, love.  No pressure.' 

This is hope, Ladies!  When the moon is right, and the planets align,    and you put in a little elbow grease, and a lot of patience, you can get results.  I'm proof!  I was where you are, not knowing if the effort would really produce the gain.  This one request was a bit of a test for me, I just needed to know he was still capable of doing something nice for me, just because.  I'm sure you need the same,   , and coming out the other end, I'm going to say, it is worth it.  I know he is capable, now, and so does he!  And it didn't really feel like effort, just consistent focus.

It could be that now he will think like your H, Notwendy, but whatever.  This is much better than the zero effort he was putting into me before, a step up in our house. 

Also, we, my H and I, had a great talk about what makes a good husband vs what makes a good man.  A lot of the things that he was 'doing for me' were actually things that made him a good man, and not a necessarily a good husband.  It was a good talk, because it was validating for him - even tho it was correcting this notion that putting out the garbage is 'for me'.  I would highly recommend this conversation, if your guy open for it.

[ColdEthyl]

It happened!  I actually got my back rub yesterday, and he did a FANTASTIC job!  About three minutes into it, he says "this is fun, I don't know what took me so long to agree to this." 

It turned into a super good day, with good sex for both of us.   

... .then this morning he mentioned he has a stiff neck.  He said 'A neck rub would be nice', with a little wink.  I winked back and said, 'Okay, I'll schedule that for two-three weeks from now.'  He laughed and I hugged him. 

I guess this is what makes BPD r/s's so difficult... .absolutely great when things are good, or unbearably horrid when things are bad. 

blessings to all,

c.

Congrats! And ain't that the truth I'm right there with you... .trying to get mine to help with chores and get more sex from him. My H has told me time and time again when people tell him he NEEDS to do something he automatically rejects it. He was talking about watching movies... .but I guarantee that's his thought process with everything.

I'm learning to phrase/ask for things differently, so he doesn't feel like I'm trying to force him into anything.