Wow - my own lack of boundaries and hurtful comments

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Possibly this was a little masochistic however this weekend I read over old emails from my ex and even exes previous to her and I am truly shocked at how callous and deliberately hurtful I have been to ALL of them at times (and it was many times). The minute I even smell disrespect or pain from them the gloves come off and I'm punitive, I say things I KNOW would hurt them in order to punish them for hurting me, even if that hurt came a long time before the email and even if that hurt was only an interpretation. And it always ended up hurting me too.

Esp with my BPDex I was (am) furious with her for so many things but if you only read the mails and didn't know what went on during our relationship you would be hard pushed to spot who was hurting who.

I purposely hurt her as much as I could because she had hurt me, without let up, that's really not who I thought I was. And I can't say it's just her and I should pick someone else as other exes got the similar. I'm embarrassed - I start therapy next week, I will let her know about this, but I am quite concerned about my level of dysfunction, I thought it was classic codependence but this aspect is making me fear the worst. Would this be a face of narcissism?

[Trog]

Possibly this was a little masochistic however this weekend I read over old emails from my ex and even exes previous to her and I am truly shocked at how callous and deliberately hurtful I have been to ALL of them at times (and it was many times). The minute I even smell disrespect or pain from them the gloves come off and I'm punitive, I say things I KNOW would hurt them in order to punish them for hurting me, even if that hurt came a long time before the email and even if that hurt was only an interpretation. And it always ended up hurting me too.

Esp with my BPDex I was (am) furious with her for so many things but if you only read the mails and didn't know what went on during our relationship you would be hard pushed to spot who was hurting who.

I purposely hurt her as much as I could because she had hurt me, without let up, that's really not who I thought I was. And I can't say it's just her and I should pick someone else as other exes got the similar. I'm embarrassed - I start therapy next week, I will let her know about this, but I am quite concerned about my level of dysfunction, I thought it was classic codependence but this aspect is making me fear the worst. Would this be a face of narcissism?

[jhkbuzz]

First let me say that this is a really brave post, Trog!  It's painful to turn that bright examination-room light on ourselves and our own behavior... .kudos to you for having the courage to do it.

Having said that, I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose you as a narcissist.  And not every behavior needs to be "diagnosed" anyway!  I think it's very common for people to be tempted to lash out at the people that have hurt us.  I know I do my best to refrain from doing so because I don't want to be ashamed of my behavior down the road... .that's a worse pain than anything anyone else can inflict upon me.  But, if I DO do something I'm ashamed of, I apologize where I can (and that's not always possible) and work very hard to never do it again.

I'm sure your T will help you work through the rest of it... .

[BorisAcusio]

I impressed with your honesty with yourself and the level of insight you've gained in mere 5 months. I've also recognized the same pattern of behaviour, rescuing and persecuting her went hand in hand. In hindsight, fixing her was a way to exert control, as 2010 put it: When it becomes all bad, the caretakers tries harder and harder to get it (their mirrored self) under control.

While she raged, I unconciously used silent treatment for years, and thought it is a mature way to deal with unacceptable behaviour, some of it was clearly perceived but with my BPDex, it was mostly real.

"While feeling they deserve to be recognized for their specialness, unlike the Arrogant/Overt Narcissist, the Covert/Shy Narcissist is plagued by self-doubts and thus does not as readily seek the affirmation from others he or she believes is due.  Moreover, because of this strong sense of worthlessness, this type of narcissist often will not seek out appropriate friends or romantic partners because they fear exposure as frauds; for this reason their associates tend to be conspicuously inferior to themselves. Cooper observes that this narcissist, secretly harbors fantasies that he or she is engaged in a heroic rescue of someone of lesser capabilities.

Cooper, A. M. (1998). Further developments in the clinical diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. In E. F. Ronningstam (Ed.), Disorders of narcissism: Diagnostic, clinical, and empirical implications (pp. 53-74). Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press.

[BorisAcusio]

[Duplicated message]

[Trog]

My ex BPD and the women previous to her were all beautiful women and my exBPDw was a lawyer so she wasn't beneath me in any way apart from he emotional pd issues. But yes, there is something to that. I'm still quite in shock at the way I've spoken to them all. How could I have missed this!

[Reforming]

Hi Trog,

Well done for posting.

I too said terribly hurtful things to my ex, things that I should never have said.  When I felt hurt or threatened I could be very punitive and I really try and inflict as much hurt as possible

I also wondered about narcissism, though from what I've read it's very rare for narcissists to seek help and go to therapy. It's possible that you might have traits, I think I do, but I wouldn't get too obsessed with labels. The important thing is that you recognise that your behaviour was inappropriate and unhealthy and you're working to change it.

My FOO are very verbal and when rows got nasty anything and everything was free game as ammunition. I think it comes from my mother though she's a good human being in many other respects, but I grew up thinking it was normal.

My exes FOO had the opposite problem, but she was destroyed by some of the things I said in rows. It took me a  few years to learn to shut my mouth and walk away and by that time I had done a lot of damage.

I would add these type of relationships would test a saint, and that there are other types of abuse, but that still doesn't excuse verbal abuse.

Try not to be too punitive on yourself, it leads nowhere healthy

Good luck with your therapy

Reforming

[BorisAcusio]

I wouldn't rush into making conclusions, consulting with your T will definiately help clafify things. There is a stigma around the term because most people identify it with the malignant subtype.

’The similarity scores for vulnerable narcissism and BPD across the correlates was .93, suggesting nearly identical patterns of correlates between these two VDT constructs... .

It is not entirely clear whether vulnerable narcissism warrants its own place as a fully independent PD construct (or subtype of NPD), as has been argued elsewhere (i.e., Miller & Campbell, 2008; PDM Task Force, 2006), or whether it should be seen as a part of the BPD construct.

There are some members who referred themselves as vulnerable narcissistics, including Chasing_Ghosts and 2010 with remarkable level of self-awareness.

[HappyNihilist]

Trog, I agree with the others here - this took a lot of strength, self-awareness, and honesty to post. Well done!   The only way we can grow and better ourselves is by being honest about ourselves.

Like jhkbuzz said, it's very common for us to want to lash out when we've been hurt. It's a natural defense mechanism. I'm more of the "curl into a ball and take it until it's over" type person (not saying that's healthy!), but hell, even I lashed out at my exBPDbf sometimes. Our BPDexes knew what buttons of ours to push, and were capable of wounding us in very deep ways.

It sounds like you're less concerned with the fact that you did lash out sometimes, than with the degree to which you did so.

I am truly shocked at how callous and deliberately hurtful I have been to ALL of them at times (and it was many times).

Sometime we have to shock ourselves before we can recognize and make a change. What we uncover about ourselves during times of self-reflection is by no means always attractive or nice.

Now that you see this - you have the opportunity for growth.  

The minute I even smell disrespect or pain from them the gloves come off and I'm punitive, I say things I KNOW would hurt them in order to punish them for hurting me, even if that hurt came a long time before the email and even if that hurt was only an interpretation.

It sounds like you hold onto feelings of disrespect or hurt, and that you don't always communicate your hurt feelings with your partner - instead lashing out in punishment. It also sounds like you might be sensitive to perceived slights.

Given what you've learned about yourself... .what do you feel this is telling you?

Let your knowledge of yourself guide you. What is this punitive, lashing-out side protecting?

I purposely hurt her as much as I could because she had hurt me, without let up, that's really not who I thought I was. And I can't say it's just her and I should pick someone else as other exes got the similar.

Did your other exes have similar traits/behavior? Are you typically playing a "rescuer" role in relationships? Or were these relationships very different in dynamic, with the only common denominator being that you reacted punitively when you'd been hurt?

Exploring this could help you come to a better understanding of yourself in relationships. If you're usually a rescuer/fixer, then it may be like BorisAcusio said - you feel punitive and persecutorial when your rescuing efforts haven't yielded any fruit.

My ex BPD and the women previous to her were all beautiful women and my exBPDw was a lawyer so she wasn't beneath me in any way apart from he emotional pd issues.

The emotional PD issues are what make her "less capable" than you. Physical attraction and profession don't have anything to do with the emotional maturity of a person.

Look at the roles you played in these relationships, rather than at the superficial qualities of your exes. That will better help you establish if you tend to be drawn to a certain dynamic, particularly a "one-up, one-down" type relationship.

You're doing very hard work.  

[BorisAcusio]

My ex BPD and the women previous to her were all beautiful women and my exBPDw was a lawyer so she wasn't beneath me in any way apart from he emotional pd issues. But yes, there is something to that. I'm still quite in shock at the way I've spoken to them all. How could I have missed this!

I have similar history, remarkably beatiful women with some emotional baggage, but none of them was disfunctional to the degree like my BPDex.

Recently came to the conclusion, and it may be completely unrelevant to your sitution, that I tried to control my environment, and potentially harmful “persecutory” objects in it through the attachment with beatiful women I think they may envy, sometimes taking inordinate pride in the fact that they are totally dedicated to me, while deriving my self worth and value through providing for them.  

[Trog]

Trog, I agree with the others here - this took a lot of strength, self-awareness, and honesty to post. Well done!   The only way we can grow and better ourselves is by being honest about ourselves.

Like jhkbuzz said, it's very common for us to want to lash out when we've been hurt. It's a natural defense mechanism. I'm more of the "curl into a ball and take it until it's over" type person (not saying that's healthy!), but hell, even I lashed out at my exBPDbf sometimes. Our BPDexes knew what buttons of ours to push, and were capable of wounding us in very deep ways.

It sounds like you're less concerned with the fact that you did lash out sometimes, than with the degree to which you did so.

I am truly shocked at how callous and deliberately hurtful I have been to ALL of them at times (and it was many times).

Sometime we have to shock ourselves before we can recognize and make a change. What we uncover about ourselves during times of self-reflection is by no means always attractive or nice.

Now that you see this - you have the opportunity for growth.  

The minute I even smell disrespect or pain from them the gloves come off and I'm punitive, I say things I KNOW would hurt them in order to punish them for hurting me, even if that hurt came a long time before the email and even if that hurt was only an interpretation.

It sounds like you hold onto feelings of disrespect or hurt, and that you don't always communicate your hurt feelings with your partner - instead lashing out in punishment. It also sounds like you might be sensitive to perceived slights.

Given what you've learned about yourself... .what do you feel this is telling you?

Let your knowledge of yourself guide you. What is this punitive, lashing-out side protecting?

I purposely hurt her as much as I could because she had hurt me, without let up, that's really not who I thought I was. And I can't say it's just her and I should pick someone else as other exes got the similar.

Did your other exes have similar traits/behavior? Are you typically playing a "rescuer" role in relationships? Or were these relationships very different in dynamic, with the only common denominator being that you reacted punitively when you'd been hurt?

Exploring this could help you come to a better understanding of yourself in relationships. If you're usually a rescuer/fixer, then it may be like BorisAcusio said - you feel punitive and persecutorial when your rescuing efforts haven't yielded any fruit.

My ex BPD and the women previous to her were all beautiful women and my exBPDw was a lawyer so she wasn't beneath me in any way apart from he emotional pd issues.

The emotional PD issues are what make her "less capable" than you. Physical attraction and profession don't have anything to do with the emotional maturity of a person.

Look at the roles you played in these relationships, rather than at the superficial qualities of your exes. That will better help you establish if you tend to be drawn to a certain dynamic, particularly a "one-up, one-down" type relationship.

You're doing very hard work.  

I felt that when I let my BPDex know she hurt me she would belittle my feelings/invalidate them and ignore my requests not to do or say something that hurt me. So in the end I skipped that part and just attacked her verbally whenever I felt hurt/slighted.

I am sensitive to slights (perceived or otherwise). What is this telling me? I really am not sure. Maybe, I am setting myself in one-up relationships where I think I should be getting respect from a 'lesser' person and then when I don't get the respect from this person I get angry and feel they are not showing me the proper respect I deserve. I think this may be the case, and I'm not very impressed that I get into relationships where I have the natural advantage. Why would I do that? It's not like it's working out for me?

[Reforming]

I felt that when I let my BPDex know she hurt me she would belittle my feelings/invalidate them and ignore my requests not to do or say something that hurt me. So in the end I skipped that part and just attacked her verbally whenever I felt hurt/slighted.

I am sensitive to slights (perceived or otherwise). What is this telling me? I really am not sure. Maybe, I am setting myself in one-up relationships where I think I should be getting respect from a 'lesser' person and then when I don't get the respect from this person I get angry and feel they are not showing me the proper respect I deserve. I think this may be the case, and I'm not very impressed that I get into relationships where I have the natural advantage. Why would I do that? It's not like it's working out for me?

There's been some very good threads on why choose to be in one up relationships.

I think the feelings of defectiveness, a need to control, feeling powerful are all part of the mix.

I'd say that I can be very sensitive to slights (perceived and otherwise). Therapy has helped a lot and I've got much better, but when I thought my udBPDex had done something hurtful or disrespectful I would often overreact and lash out verbally.

And I also got angrier because at some level I didn't see her as my equal.  

I genuinely regret that and I think I would behave very differently now,

But I temper this awareness with the knowledge that I was also very supportive and loving in many ways, that I didn't cheat on her or abuse her physically.

I tried the best I could at the time to makes thing work and though I made plenty of mistakes  I'm doing my best now to learn from them and be better

That's all you can do.

As I said earlier I would try and not fixate on a label or diagnosis. Unhealthy behaviour is unhealthy behaviour whatever you call it. What matters is whether you take responsibility for it and get help

Good luck and well done for getting to therapy

Reforming

[HappyNihilist]

I am sensitive to slights (perceived or otherwise). What is this telling me? I really am not sure.

Sensitivity to slights often points to feelings of vulnerability. You're protecting yourself; your hypersensitivity is a coat of armor. What are you protecting?

Maybe, I am setting myself in one-up relationships where I think I should be getting respect from a 'lesser' person and then when I don't get the respect from this person I get angry and feel they are not showing me the proper respect I deserve.

I think this is an important realization for you.  

Now... .where do you go from here?

I think this may be the case, and I'm not very impressed that I get into relationships where I have the natural advantage. Why would I do that? It's not like it's working out for me?

We will continue to repeat old patterns because they're familiar to us - regardless of whether or not they're healthy for us - until we address the underlying causes.

Like Reforming said, there are lots of good threads and resources here on why people choose to be in one-up/one-down relationships.

A one-up/one-down relationship is anti-intimacy. This is an unhealthy relationship dynamic that makes true intimacy impossible. People who enter into these relationships are doing so to avoid authentic adult intimacy -- no matter which side (up or down) they choose.

Being one-up feels good. It protects the vulnerable inner self from pain. Plus, your energy is focused on someone else, so you don't have to look at your own issues.

A sensitivity to real or perceived slights... .a tendency to be one-up in relationships... .avoiding intimacy... .You are protecting something inside yourself quite fiercely.

Follow the need and you will find yourself... . 

[Mike-X]

Have you considered the possibility that you might have abandonment and validation issues?

I recognized that my battling with my ex wife was often about me searching for validation and related to my own esteem issues, possibly linked to abandonment issues too (divorced parents, etc.). She wasn't one to provide validation, either, even when I explicitly asked for it. At various times in the heat of arguments, I became aware that I was looking for even the smallest form of validation. She would just go on about how sensitive I was and how I let the smallest things blow up - about as invalidating as it gets. Once I fully realized what I was searching for and that she wasn't  likely to provide, I was better able to avoid arguing with her.

Turns out my mom and dad aren't good with validation either. Not much of a surprise, right.

I recognized it pretty early on in the relationship with the girlfriend, udxBPD, and was able to at least stop myself from responding and getting bent way out of shape due to invalidation-abandonment issues.  But I believe that all of the invalidation from the ex left me vulnerable, so to speak, to soak up the validation during the idealization phase.

[Enoch]

Hi Trog,

I know exactly what you mean by making hurtful comments... .I've been married 35 years now and I can remember making some pretty crappy comments too. Especially name calling and derogatory stuff. I am ashamed of those days.

I know why I reverted to those tactics... .I was immature and insecure. I needed to be right. And if I couldn't be right then I would be heard above the din because I can yell too... .and I knew right where to stick in the proverbial knife.  Yeah, I know how you feel.

Now that I realize her mental state and inability to keep her emotions in check, I know beyond a doubt that my words carry a heavy weight. They can hurt or they can heal... .and I get to choose them.

If I am tired or running on empty, I don't always choose well. But if I am mindful of my own mental state and also mindful of her ability to poke me in the eye when I least expect it... .I can usually keep my tongue... .but not always 

I can only control me and I can focus on keeping my emotional tank full. I wish she would be the one that fills my tank sometime... .but that never happens. I've stopped waiting for that, even stopped hoping for it. I get my tank filled in lots of ways. Unfortunately, my DBPDW is not one of those sources. I am blessed in so many ways... .

Thanks for reminding me about my words.

[Trog]

Ive been thinking about this a lot. Tomorrow I meet with my T and will bring this up. I have apologised to all my relevant exes including the BPd ex which was a bit risky but she won't respond. It's tricky because the BPD ex doesn't think she is ever wrong or has any problems so my apologising for this will validate her general long held belief that she is perfect (seriously she believes that 100%). That's not my intention as that sets her back further away from engaging with the care team. However, this apology was for me and I feel good about apologising to all of them, all my other exes engaged with me. Apologising is one thing, now I need to do the work to understand why I behave that way that makes me miserable.

[Mike-X]

Ive been thinking about this a lot. Tomorrow I meet with my T and will bring this up. I have apologised to all my relevant exes including the BPd ex which was a bit risky but she won't respond. It's tricky because the BPD ex doesn't think she is ever wrong or has any problems so my apologising for this will validate her general long held belief that she is perfect (seriously she believes that 100%). That's not my intention as that sets her back further away from engaging with the care team. However, this apology was for me and I feel good about apologising to all of them, all my other exes engaged with me. Apologising is one thing, now I need to do the work to understand why I behave that way that makes me miserable.

I apologized to my ex wife not long ago.

[Reforming]

Hi Trog,

It's so easy to shift blame and responsibility for our actions on to others.

Recognising our mistakes takes guts and it's a big step forward,

I've also learned that I need to balance this with genuine compassion for myself. I genuinely regret my mistakes but I accept that I did the best that could at the time.

No one else can fully understand your experience but as the other posters have suggested it sounds like, at some level your needs, whether it was being heard, validated, or feeling safe were not being met.

For me a big part of the work has been finding out what those needs are and whose job is it to meet them. I recognise now that some of mind can never be met by another person, but some of them can.

A good therapist can really help you untangle this and guide you forward

Thanks again for posting. Your words have reminded me of the part I played in my relationship and helped me to own my own actions. It's scary how easy it can be to forget the part that I played. 

I'm reminded of something that Skip said in a post. Something along the lines of; the people who made the most progress were those who took responsibility for themselves and focussed on their own behaviour rather than blaming their exes.

I hope I haven't got that wrong Skip

Reforming

[Trog]

My needs were not being met. I was in a constant state of hyper vigilance waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was not heard, even on important matters, everything down to what I ate was controlled and monitored. I can see where this all stems from. Never again.

[Trog]

On Tuesday I went to see a therapist to talk about my emotions in this break up and how to go forward, from taking a test she diagnosed me with depression and recommended some medication that I am now taking. Since reading the emails I sent back to my ex I have a new sense of rotten-ness, the things I have said are just unforgiveable, even considering if she hurt me badly, I totally lost control and the desires I might have had to make her see the error of her ways or higher ground I thought I occupied, I truly did not. I don't understand why I would speak to her in this way because truly I believe I loved her very much.

I wouldn't go back to her now not because of how much she hurt me but for how foul I was to her, I was wretched truly, I thought there was no going back because of her, but there is also no going back because of me. I have spent so long angry at my ex, seeing her 100% as the evil jin, its just a painful shock to realise how much I contributed to her pain, my pain and the break up, really, I do not know where to place myself or what is the truth anymore. I just feel empty, not angry, not sorry for myself, just totally numb with this realisation. Before I had the anger, now, I feel disidentified with myself. I care about nothing, its a shell.

I know this sounds totally indulgent but I feel myself like a ghost right now. 

[Blimblam]

Then hbo series Eastbound and down, is about an over the top narcisist but they make him relatable and hilarious. It makes it fairly easy to identify ones own inner narcisist through humour and tragedy.  Watch east bound and down it is comedic genius.

[Trog]

Then hbo series Eastbound and down, is about an over the top narcisist but they make him relatable and hilarious. It makes it fairly easy to identify ones own inner narcisist through humour and tragedy.  Watch east bound and down it is comedic genius.

Im not in the US. I cleaned instead. 

[Blimblam]

I am pretty sure it is fr sale it is 4 seasons long.  it is a saga not an episode by episode type show. I mean there are a lot of psychology books to understand narcissism and what not but eastbound and down uses the clown tradition to trancendent bariers and deliver the message in a way that is trully unparalleled.

[HappyNihilist]

Trog, I'm so sorry, you've had a really rough time lately.   

I'm very glad you went to a therapist; hopefully the anti-depressant will kick in soon for you. It usually takes a couple of weeks. Feelings of emptiness and numbness are very common during depressive episodes. So is the tendency to beat yourself up and feel rotten for everything bad you've ever done. (This, in turn, keeps you feeling horrible and feeds the depression.)

I know it feels like hell. But these feelings are temporary. You will feel like yourself again.

Please, go easy on yourself. Let the medication stabilize and just be gentle with yourself for a little while.

The questions that you want to answer for yourself will still be there after the worst of this depression passes. 

[Mike-X]

On Tuesday I went to see a therapist to talk about my emotions in this break up and how to go forward, from taking a test she diagnosed me with depression and recommended some medication that I am now taking. Since reading the emails I sent back to my ex I have a new sense of rotten-ness, the things I have said are just unforgiveable, even considering if she hurt me badly, I totally lost control and the desires I might have had to make her see the error of her ways or higher ground I thought I occupied, I truly did not. I don't understand why I would speak to her in this way because truly I believe I loved her very much.

I wouldn't go back to her now not because of how much she hurt me but for how foul I was to her, I was wretched truly, I thought there was no going back because of her, but there is also no going back because of me. I have spent so long angry at my ex, seeing her 100% as the evil jin, its just a painful shock to realise how much I contributed to her pain, my pain and the break up, really, I do not know where to place myself or what is the truth anymore. I just feel empty, not angry, not sorry for myself, just totally numb with this realisation. Before I had the anger, now, I feel disidentified with myself. I care about nothing, its a shell.

I know this sounds totally indulgent but I feel myself like a ghost right now. 

I truly appreciate your candor in this thread.  I have learned so much about myself in relationships, both the goodness and true rottenness, from the relationship that I had with my girlfriend with udxBPD. I remember the first time that I raged on her, and after three days of being angry, realized that it was me who was in the wrong and not her. And I realized how unloving screaming and raging over disagreements, no matter the size, was just simply damaging to the relationship. In past relationships, I just dismissed the anger and rage as normal reactions in discussions that escalated to raging disagreements. I was so wrong, felt so guilty, and wished that I could erase those days from her memory and replace them with loving responses on my part. I apologized so many times for the way that I behaved.  Yet, I learned from that  experience that I was not being the loving person that I wanted to be in the relationship, and I began working on being more loving when disagreeing, managing and expressing my feelings in a loving way, and trying to stay centered and focused on her and the relationship, instead of my own pathetic, self-pity party.

Of course, in many of her BPD fueled rages the eventually followed, she let me know how unloving I was over those three days. 

I am sorry for what you are going through. However, you have recognized that you have a problem. Although you can't change the past, you have apologized to those you have affected, and you are trying to change to have a healthier future. 

[BorisAcusio]

On Tuesday I went to see a therapist to talk about my emotions in this break up and how to go forward, from taking a test she diagnosed me with depression and recommended some medication that I am now taking. Since reading the emails I sent back to my ex I have a new sense of rotten-ness, the things I have said are just unforgiveable, even considering if she hurt me badly, I totally lost control and the desires I might have had to make her see the error of her ways or higher ground I thought I occupied, I truly did not. I don't understand why I would speak to her in this way because truly I believe I loved her very much.

I wouldn't go back to her now not because of how much she hurt me but for how foul I was to her, I was wretched truly, I thought there was no going back because of her, but there is also no going back because of me. I have spent so long angry at my ex, seeing her 100% as the evil jin, its just a painful shock to realise how much I contributed to her pain, my pain and the break up, really, I do not know where to place myself or what is the truth anymore. I just feel empty, not angry, not sorry for myself, just totally numb with this realisation. Before I had the anger, now, I feel disidentified with myself. I care about nothing, its a shell.

I know this sounds totally indulgent but I feel myself like a ghost right now.  

You're being too hard on yourself. These "relationships" bring all kinds of emotional debris into awareness, including that of the unresolved collective. I don't know about the dynamics between you, but looking back, I'm quite surpsised how centered, calm and forgiving I was to her in the first year, when the unacceptable behaviour was ranging from sending naked pictures to former partners to applying for porn casting interview(later admitted that she actually went for the casting) No matter how centered, understanding and supportive I was, she kept repeating the same mistakes, without learning from previous experience, keep upping the ante with infidelity, while being completely insensitive to others’ feelings and needs. Maybe if you carefuly examine what happened, without the debilitating shame, you will come to the conclusion that it was more of a slow process which eventually led to the complete loss of control.

[Reforming]

On Tuesday I went to see a therapist to talk about my emotions in this break up and how to go forward, from taking a test she diagnosed me with depression and recommended some medication that I am now taking. Since reading the emails I sent back to my ex I have a new sense of rotten-ness, the things I have said are just unforgiveable, even considering if she hurt me badly, I totally lost control and the desires I might have had to make her see the error of her ways or higher ground I thought I occupied, I truly did not. I don't understand why I would speak to her in this way because truly I believe I loved her very much.

I wouldn't go back to her now not because of how much she hurt me but for how foul I was to her, I was wretched truly, I thought there was no going back because of her, but there is also no going back because of me. I have spent so long angry at my ex, seeing her 100% as the evil jin, its just a painful shock to realise how much I contributed to her pain, my pain and the break up, really, I do not know where to place myself or what is the truth anymore. I just feel empty, not angry, not sorry for myself, just totally numb with this realisation. Before I had the anger, now, I feel disidentified with myself. I care about nothing, its a shell.

I know this sounds totally indulgent but I feel myself like a ghost right now.  

Hi Trog,

I'm sorry that you're feeling so low.

I think most of us will admit that we made mistakes, but I think that we did the best that we could at the time with the knowledge, skills and self awareness that we had.

Acknowledging my own mistakes has empowered me to learn, move forward and be stronger and healthier.

But my biggest challenge has been to be compassionate to myself.

I've learned the my punitive voice not only makes me feel miserable and it makes me feel helpless to make things better.

For many of us our Punitive Voice is so deeply ingrained and reinforced over the years that we don't even notice it whispering poisonous words in our ear.

It's taking time, but I'm gradually learning it recognise it, challenge it and replace it with compassion, understanding, and forgiveness. The things that I need  

Loving yourself is hard work, but it's amazing how empowering it can be.

Good luck and keep your chin up

Reforming

[Trog]

Theres a level between self flagellation/learning and saying "I did the best I could". Probably we all do the best we know how at the time, I think few of us set out to do a poor job. I suppose all I/we can do is just learn more about ourselves and move on. The test will come with my next girlfriend and I will try to ensure the work and lessons I am carrying thru here at least mean I take better boundaries and behaviour into my next relationship.

I wonder how many of us, comparing to % of people who go thru any other break up, the next relationship is THE relationship. I would guess its a higher % than those not splitting out of one of these relationships. Surely we choose better and act better with this info.