Does anyone else's partner with BPD have extreme issues with self-neglect?

[amaranth13]

My husband got diagnosed with BPD about a week ago. Part of the biggest problem that I think he's dealing with (he doesn't agree with me) is that he feels so bad about himself he neglects himself seriously. He has panic attacks when he tries to shower so sometimes he goes weeks, sometimes months without showering. I try to help by making sure he has enough babywipes and shampoo that was created for people who cannot leave their bed easily. But it makes it really hard for us to be social, people hold their noses when we're in one spot with them and he doesn't feel he has any power to change. The only thing he liked to do with other people is do roleplaying games and he's given that up because they've set (a healthy) boundary that he's not welcome unless he showered that day. It doesn't make him try though, it just makes him give up.

He also doesn't eat unless I make him food, though he's slowly starting to try and make himself a salad or a sandwich. He gets so quickly overwhelmed that any new skill is almost too overwhelming to start learning. His psychiatrist is trying to help him deal with all the anxiety with new meds.  Three months ago I got so very overwhelmed that I told him he needed to go live with his parents for a while because I was on the verge of burning out, and he was there for a few months, and seems to have realized he needs help, and that I do not have the energy and ability to take care of him at the level of functioning he is now. I think he may finally have realized that I am serious about not being with him unless he is at least committed to working on the helplessness and the huge amount of practical support he needs.

So now he's looking for a therapist, and I think that's good. I am not sure if I should set boundaries around his hygiene though. It's a really, really sore issue for him and he basically is not motivated by people making clear that it is bothering them, instead he lets that kind of information destroy his will to grow.

Does anyone else deal with something like this? My husband is a lot less violent and accusing or agressive than I seem to see and hear many other spouses/partners share on here, he's moving fast between being stuck in feeling attacked by me unfairly and blaming me (but not agressively) for having too high expectations of him, and then blaming himself for being stupid and horrible and both those things paralyze him.

I know I'm somewhat enmeshed, I also have a pretty complex mental illness I deal with and I'm working on keeping to my own emotions and realizing that I allow myself to be influenced by how bad he feels, and not immediately jump in to the rescue if he shows the learned helplessness he falls into so very often. At least he is realizing that living like this is not an option for me if he wants to be part of my life, and is willing to work on getting better, but I see a very long road before him and us, I have a lot to learn about not rescuing him and still being supportive, and he also has a lot to learn.

Any advise or ideas would be welcome, thanks for reading this far.

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[blissful_camper]

I have a friend who used to not bathe for weeks on end.  This included not brushing his teeth or changing his clothes.  It seemed that nothing could get him into the shower.  (His reasons weren't connected to panic) What finally convinced him to bathe/shower each day was a story a mutual friend shared with him about her sister becoming ill with E. coli due to poor hygiene. 

I wonder if it would help to educate him on the risks/effects of poor hygiene?  Can someone work with him on desensitizing him to the shower so that he overcomes his panic in that situation?  Is he more at ease taking baths?   

[drummerboy]

I don't think this is a BPD trait/thing. My ex was the cleanest person I've ever known.

[kikimo]

My grandfather rarely took showers. He blamed it on being allergic to soaps but he had extreme OCD and ptsd after WWII. He literally turned the stove on and off 15 times every night before going to bed. He once went to our neighbors to ask her if he could take a shower at her house, which was very strange... .She did say no.

In my own recovery, I've read that odd bathing rituals can be a sign of childhood sexual abuse that might even be repressed.

My BPD bf and myself take showers... .But I will say that I want to take mine in the dark and I don't want soap in bath water... .Because I can't see through it. what i mean is that if i put soap in, it's in the dark but if the lights on, there can be no soap. i never used soap as a kid until it was time to get out. I suspect that I was abused as a child.

[Notwendy]

I'm going to add that I don't think this is a common characteristic of BPD. If one reads the pattern- their r/s started with attraction and romance and then later they were split black. I highly doubt that someone wishing to attract someone would have poor hygene.

It can be the opposite. My mother with BPD is very attractive. She's elderly now, but is still beautiful. She has always been impeccably dressed, with nice hairstyles and clothing. If anything, I would consider her to be on the side of being overly invested in her appearance. My H, who has BPD traits is also invested in his appearance. I suspect it is because they are concerned with how people see them. I think most people have some concern about looking nice and how others see them, but if one is less secure with themselves, this might take on more importance. It is actually a healthy trait to take care of one's health and appearance as long as it is not obsessive.

It's probably the caretaker/codependent partner who has traits of self neglect, since we tend to care for others before ourselves. Still, I don't think it would come down to the point of poor hygene. Showers are a must for me and I do have nice clothing too, but I'm more likely to run to the grocery store in a pair of sweatpants and not care but my H and mother would not want to be seen in public dressed like that.

I think the degree of poor hygene to the point of being odorous and not bathing for months is another issue- a form of mental illness - depression? phobia? self harm?. One could have BPD in addition, but this seems to be more serious and extreme.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm going to disagree with the general census here just a little. My H and his son are both BPD. They are both clean by nature but when they are more depressed, more dysregulated... .self care does lower. My H has never gone more than a week without showering, so not to the extremes mentioned here, but showering, eating, etc does go down when he's depressed.

[kikimo]

I'm going to disagree with the general census here just a little. My H and his son are both BPD. They are both clean by nature but when they are more depressed, more dysregulated... .self care does lower. My H has never gone more than a week without showering, so not to the extremes mentioned here, but showering, eating, etc does go down when he's depressed.

Yes. I agree with that. I remember a woman around here that went so long without grooming herself while depressed, her sister had to cut off all her hair. She had very long hair, but it was so matted and knotted, it couldn't be fixed. My bipolar mom says when she is depressed, she doesn't care about anything.

I don't suffer from depression often and it's usually short lived, but Coldethyl is right. I wasn't thinking of that aspect when I posted.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm going to disagree with the general census here just a little. My H and his son are both BPD. They are both clean by nature but when they are more depressed, more dysregulated... .self care does lower. My H has never gone more than a week without showering, so not to the extremes mentioned here, but showering, eating, etc does go down when he's depressed.

Yes. I agree with that. I remember a woman around here that went so long without grooming herself while depressed, her sister had to cut off all her hair. She had very long hair, but it was so matted and knotted, it couldn't be fixed. My bipolar mom says when she is depressed, she doesn't care about anything.

I don't suffer from depression often and it's usually short lived, but Coldethyl is right. I wasn't thinking of that aspect when I posted.

It could be more of an earmark for depression, and less about the BPD.

[blissful_camper]

Yes, depression... .or ... .anxiety that is manifesting as phobias. 

[amaranth13]

Thank you all for weighing in with ideas! I understand it's probably something that is more due to his depression (which he also has been diagnosed with, as well as anxiety and now the BPD). I could see that, definitely. I have tried to bring up the possibility of infections due to his hygiene but I haven't quite pushed it as much as I could.

The problem is that I know I should set boundaries for things that bother -me- individually but his hygiene doesn't bother me that much. I seem to not have problems with his scent, even if I've been gone for several days and in other air, it's not something I find horrible when I come back. So I would set boundaries around it because of other people's reactions, and the fact I don't like how it isolates him. But from what I understand and how my therapist dropped the idea of boundaries around that particular thing the moment I explained it didn't really bother me that much, it's not good to set a boundary you don't feel strongly personally. For me it is the fear of how others react and that I have to be doubly, triply careful with my own hygiene in the morning so I don't carry any of his problems over in my clothes or on my skin or in my hair to my work. That's kind of a hassle but not a huge deal to me.

I will look if there is any information or proof about infections due to lack of hygiene, and see if it works best to keep a little bit of pressure on now and then if he'll shower, but not turn it into all-out nagging, because that doesn't work at all.

Thanks for brainstorming along with me!

[Turkish]

Hello amaranthe13,

As you've noticed, there can be a lot of variation between behaviors for a person suffering from BPD, and as ColdEthyl pointed to, your husband's lack of self-care could be more indicative of a mood disorder, like depression.

My mother suffers from both depression, and  BPD. She lives as a hoarder, and extremely filthy. Hoarding isn't a BPD trait, specifically, but we have many members whose BPD parents also hoard. I also have a dBPD (diagnosed, along with GAD, depression, and c-PTSD) friend who says her apartment looks like a hoarder's home. Her self-image lies somewhere between my mom and my Ex.

My Ex also suffers from depression, and has BPD traits (undiagnosed... .which may mean that she is "sub-clinical", though I know her therapist was unaware of her one suicide ideation with me, because we kept it behind closed doors), but is almost a clean freak and primps herself very well.

pwBPD (people with BPD) suffer from an unstable self-image and often a core sense of shame. My mother copes by accepting that she's "homely" and not being very womanly. My Ex also suffers from an unstable self-image, but copes by obsessing about her "perfect weight," and changing her appearance to fit her moods. I found something in one of her journals once (she left them in my house when she left me) where she said something like, "why do I change my hair so much, is it because I can't change my feelings inside?"

Since you're fairly new, have you had a chance to look at the communication tools contained in the Lessons (to the right of the board--->? Lesson 3 covers the communication tools. Validation can go a long way, and it might help open him up. pwBPD are extremely sensitive to shaming, perceived or otherwise.

[waverider]

My partner suffers from this across the board. She is very low functioning. Showering is almost phobia and has to spend a day talking herself into it, then maybe still putting it off. Most activities are put on the "do later" basis., with a constant yes/no/yes/no  lead up.

Years ago she was more OCD in her behaviors showering 3 times a day, each one lasting hours with rigid routines. Now it is almost a case of it is entrenched that showers are big affairs, and so put off altogether. No quick showers.

pwBPD can be extreme tidy or extreme messy. It ties in that you are not personally attacked either, this is about them being more inwardly focused rather than outwardly. He probably has little desire to control others or his environment.

Ditto with the lack of food preparation my partner will not "prepare" herself food. A bowl of cereal is about as much effort she will put into feeding herself. Wont warm up left overs or make a sandwich. She will eat left overs cold and just eat bread with butter on it. Not because she cant cook. Quite happy to make a roast for me with a flourish and big show. But not for herself. In her words "she is not worth the effort"... or more likely she only does things for praise and approval and she cant give that to herself, so there is no motivation.

Her diet is definitely fad of the moment. Not unhealthy food but just unbalanced.

[ColdEthyl]

Ditto with the lack of food preparation my partner will not "prepare" herself food. A bowl of cereal is about as much effort she will put into feeding herself. Wont warm up left overs or make a sandwich. She will eat left overs cold and just eat bread with butter on it. Not because she cant cook. Quite happy to make a roast for me with a flourish and big show. But not for herself. In her words "she is not worth the effort"... or more likely she only does things for praise and approval and she cant give that to herself, so there is no motivation.

My husband takes great pride in cooking for me. Sometimes he almost forces me to accept his warm meal. It's like an offering to me. He needs to do this so he feels worth something.

He's an excellent cook. I would rather eat his eggs than any restaurant. But in addition to his weird-o thing with my brother... .he doesn't cook for himself. I will buy things he can throw into the microwave. He will eat during the day 2-3 times a week.

[takingandsending]

  Hi Amaranth.

I will just chime in like the others that this is likely a more inward/depression/self-worth aspect of BPD. My nephew has been diagnosed with BPD, and he likewise went long periods without bathing, and he had a noticeable smell.

But, not to miss what you stated,

The problem is that I know I should set boundaries for things that bother -me- individually but his hygiene doesn't bother me that much. I seem to not have problems with his scent, even if I've been gone for several days and in other air, it's not something I find horrible when I come back. So I would set boundaries around it because of other people's reactions, and the fact I don't like how it isolates him. But from what I understand and how my therapist dropped the idea of boundaries around that particular thing the moment I explained it didn't really bother me that much, it's not good to set a boundary you don't feel strongly personally. For me it is the fear of how others react and that I have to be doubly, triply careful with my own hygiene in the morning so I don't carry any of his problems over in my clothes or on my skin or in my hair to my work. That's kind of a hassle but not a huge deal to me.

Boundaries are best made around our core values. What does his lack of hygiene mean to you, and does it go against something that you hold as essential to who you are and what you value? If the answer is no, then a boundary here likely wouldn't be that effective anyway because you may decide it isn't worth it to enforce one. The key to your boundaries needs to come from you, not his behaviors - i.e. the things that you can't do because they are really not aligned with the expression of who you are. I would look at your fear of how others react and see what you can understand or learn from that. That feels like it is getting closer to something within you that might help to outline where your boundary can be.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing. 

[waverider]

Sometimes the lack of self hygiene has a negative effect on themselves, feeding their own self loathing. Yet they still can't do it. It just builds up into a bigger insurmountable hurdle.

Its not always because they don't care or can't be bothered. It just becomes an overwhelming issue.

[ColdEthyl]

@waverider that's how it always appears to me. My H does this when he's knee deep in the self-loathing. He feels so useless, so terrible, that he doesn't want to take care of himself in any way because, in his mind, he doesn't deserve it.