Shame and Guilt Problems

[kikimo]

Every single time I point out to my BF something that he did that was wrong, I have to go through at least 1 to 2 hours of conversation that is... .

1) Him always telling me I need to move on because he doesn't deserve me (he is trying to better himself but struggling)

2) Him talking about how he should just give up

3) How he should die/has tried to commit suicide

4) Anytime I ask his feelings about me on an emotional level it's always a list of my qualities or that he wanted to marry me (never mentions actual feelings).

Then I have to build him up, and then he just gets frustrated with the conversation once I start trying to talk things out, get answers, etc. I NEVER know if we've broken up or not until 2 or 3 days later... .and it's so annoying and gives me anxiety.

He's saying that he's ashamed of himself when he's around me. That he feels dirty when he has sex with me (because he's been doing drugs and cheated in the past). He can't even reach orgasm with me anymore because he's so ashamed of himself. I tell him that I know he is working on his problems, and while what he did is not acceptable, that I forgive him.

Now he is saying that he wants us to spend more time together, but not have sex. I know it's because of his shame. He always prided himself on his "performance". How do I help him see that I don't view him in that light? I told him that I didn't feel that way towards him, and he not feel that way.

Madonna/Whore complex? Childlike shame? I'm not sure.

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[kikimo]

He also piles reason, on top of reason why I should not be with him, but when I say something negative, he takes it as rejection and spazzes out. He also always contradicts himself... .always. ex - I can't do this or that, but then gets upset at me for being happy whether he does those things or not. ex - I want to be a great mentor for your son... .2 minutes later, I'm not father material and never will be.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Kikimo,

I understand how difficult it is to cope with your pwBPD's feelings of shame.    

I have heard many of the same "reasons" on why I should not be with my bf.  He tends to say these things when he is in a depressive/shameful state. When he is dysregulating in this state, any trigger or fear of abandonment he feels is associated with him being a "bad" person.

My bf can be very self aware at times and  he has told me that he tells me things like moving on to "reassure" him. Basically, he wants me to tell him that he is not a bad person, I do deserve him, and I am not going to leave him.  In other words, validation.  Here is an article on validation that is really helpful for feelings of shame/self-loathing. 

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it


Discussing negative or unpleasant things with a pwBPD can be tricky. I found that if I discuss these type of things when my bf is dysregulating, he most likely will get defensive and either rage/project. I tend to discuss issues when he is in a more stable state. Then I make sure I am validating him and using communication tools. Using both have really helped me diffuse difficult situations.

Have you tried communication tools with your pwBPD?

Unfortunately, the contradictions are a part of the disorder. Sometimes it can drive you bananas trying to keep up with all the things that are said.

[kikimo]

Thanks, I feel better after reading this. I try to use the tools, but a lot of times my own emotions get in the way... .Then I lose some control of what I'm saying. Also I talk too much, confusing him even more. I need to keep it shorter and direct. Today I feel like I've been hit by a truck. The contidictions get to me. I try to rationalize it.

One minute he wants to be with me, the next we should go our separate ways. Etc... He makes up reason after reason why we shouldn't be together, but gets mad if I say I'm not ready to live together.

This man has never told me he loves me, but has went through 2 periods of thinking about marriage? When I ask his feelings he lists my qualities. He doesn't use feeling words.

I also found out that he relapsed to drugs and it is much worse than I assumed. He tells me he hates himself, he's discussing, etc...  :)oes he feel this way or is hopeful I will tell him he's not. Our only disagreements have been a huge discussion on him thinking he's a waste and failur and me telling he's not... Each time starting out with me pointing out something wrong he did. I know he just assumes he's bad because he did bad. I don't see it that way.

[hergestridge]

I tried all the techniques in the world, but I never managed to say some things in a nice enough way. If I asked my wife to change her behavior, the only thing she could think was that she had done something wrong. And then the war was on.

This turned into absurd situations. I had chronic headaches, and she had a habit of asking me if I had a headache. The only way for me deal my pain was to focus less on the pain (doctors orders). So I explained this to my wife, asking her nicely not to ask me regularly if I have a headache. She just said no, claiming that she needs to know how I feel and has the right to ask.

These situations happened again and again. The only way to avoid these "deadlocks" would have been to somehow trick her into changing her behavior, and for me that meant crossing a line - to stop treating her like an adult.

We're no longer together + I have a great new headache medication now.

I just thought I'd chime in on this. I never found a way to work around this. If I made her feel stupid about something - that particular issue was scr*wed forever. We could never dicuss it again. It was like an open wound for her.

[kikimo]

I just thought I'd chime in on this. I never found a way to work around this. If I made her feel stupid about something - that particular issue was scr*wed forever. We could never dicuss it again. It was like an open wound for her.

Omg, exactly on that. I told him that I was trying to find the right words to explain how I felt. He said "what? Do you think I'm too stupid to understand."

Then he got really upset when he said something about being disgusting and he was a joke to me... .I was crying and said, do I sound like I'm laughing at you, I love you. Then said do you think I'd take you to my high school reunion if I was ashamed of you. He got really mad. My brother said I question his intelligence.  I can't win for losing on discussions. I'm going to have to learn to be direct and say less. No explaining.

I'm glad your headaches are better!

[EaglesJuju]

Thanks, I feel better after reading this. I try to use the tools, but a lot of times my own emotions get in the way... .Then I lose some control of what I'm saying. Also I talk too much, confusing him even more. I need to keep it shorter and direct. Today I feel like I've been hit by a truck.

I am sorry you are having a tough day. 

I understand how your emotions can get in the way. I feel like that a lot. Sometimes it is even hard to take a step back and gather my thoughts/feelings.  I have been doing some mindfulness techniques to balance my rational thoughts and emotions.  At times, my emotions eclipse my rational thoughts and when I speak to my bf when I am emotional, it ends up making things worse. Mindfulness has really helped me with that. It really works!  Here is an article for you to read. 

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

When communicating, I have found direct, clear, and concise tends to work the best. When the message is kept short and clear, there is less of a tendency for my bf to misinterpret it. 

[BestVersionOfMe]

I just thought I'd chime in on this. I never found a way to work around this. If I made her feel stupid about something - that particular issue was scr*wed forever. We could never dicuss it again. It was like an open wound for her.

Omg, exactly on that. I told him that I was trying to find the right words to explain how I felt. He said "what? Do you think I'm too stupid to understand."

Then he got really upset when he said something about being disgusting and he was a joke to me... .I was crying and said, do I sound like I'm laughing at you, I love you. Then said do you think I'd take you to my high school reunion if I was ashamed of you. He got really mad. My brother said I question his intelligence.  I can't win for losing on discussions. I'm going to have to learn to be direct and say less. No explaining.

I'm glad your headaches are better!

Yep this happens to me too.  It is the "always" and "never" part of the BPD's mind that means that if an issue offends them then they can NEVER trust you again on that issue.  My wife's "always" and "never" thinking is really scary.  I mean bizarre.  Over the years pretty much everything has been taken off the table YET I'm the one that apparently doesn't know how to communicate. 

[kikimo]

Is it typical that when you point out something wrong they did to you that they say they don't deserve you and you should find someone else? I mean, is this a test ? I k ow it is as pointed out above, but it hurts my feelings. This time he was worse about sounding serious and said hurtful things like... .Sometimes having sex with you seems like a chore... When a week ago he told me he loved sex with me and I always made him happy.

I even asked him, do you even like me? Are you trying to get rid of me?

I've been with him over a 1.5 year. And he just met my son. He's now volunteering to be a mentor to him and has shifted his focus on my son. Why?

He also is upset that I don't "need" him in ways outside of intimacy and even said that he can't understand why I haven't used him yet, like everyone in the past. He said he even kept waiting for it to happen., hinting that he'd been testing me.

Sometimes I think he's looking for reasons to justify his wrongful doing... .Like if I used or mistreated him it would alivate his shame. He feels ashamed of himself Around me And cries. I thought maybe he is using my son to do something good to relieve his shame?

[Jessica84]

Kikimo- I think we've all gotten the mixed signals and contradicting statements. Very frustrating. I often get my qualities named too, rather than his feelings. Typical is "You are a good soul" therefore "You deserve better than me". BPD logic.

Best advice I got here was not taking the WORDS personally. Very hard to do when it's about you! But once you get to where you can see the feelings behind his words, you'll find the words don't matter as much. They have a hard time expressing themselves in certain states of mind so words often fail them anyway. I do my best not to pay attention to his word choices, and more to his feelings. The less dysregulated I get, the easier to "see" his feelings, and the easier to validate them.