My toddler is obsessed with my uBPD mom...

[Depression = 72% of members]

My mother made my life hell... She's had a devastating affect ok my marriage,,which we have not healed from. My husband and I have had major health issues due to stresses caused by her... she has done so much damage in my life. But I've not been able to cut my uBPD and narcissistic mother off. We live about 45 minutes away from her and my enabling father. My son (age 2.9) is her only grandchild, and she is obsessed with him. I've greatly limited contact. They see him about every two weeks for a few hours, despite the multiple guilt trips I get. My mother buys my son anything he wants regardless of how expensive despite me specifically and repeatedly telling her not to. But she does it to buy his love... .And it's working. When he sees her all he keeps saying is "want to go to grandmas house." Over and over like a knife in my stomach... ."please mama? How about now? Please?" And my mom has a massive look of triumph on her face as she says "grandma is not saying no. Ask your mama." And as casually says "kids are so pure of heart. They know who loves them. And regardless of anyone trying to keep them away and teaching them to hate certain people, they won't... ." And then breaks it with "like he won't stay away from the teachers he likes will he?" And her saying things like "love is two sides. If I'm obsessed with him, he's obsessed with me." When my son repeatedly clings to the woman who had taken so much from me, I feel so so angry at my son... .But it's not his fault. He's 2 and grandma buys him anything he wants . Despite the limited contact, I still fear the influence on him as he grows up. Once my mom even said "your just afraid that he wil be on my side." The fact that she thought there were "sides" scared the hell out of me! My son pushes me away when she's around much to her delight... .Does anyone have a solution or advice? I just want to move farrrr away from her!

[MiserableDaughter]

My mother made my life hell... She's had a devastating affect ok my marriage,,which we have not healed from. My husband and I have had major health issues due to stresses caused by her... she has done so much damage in my life. But I've not been able to cut my uBPD and narcissistic mother off. We live about 45 minutes away from her and my enabling father. My son (age 2.9) is her only grandchild, and she is obsessed with him. I've greatly limited contact. They see him about every two weeks for a few hours, despite the multiple guilt trips I get. My mother buys my son anything he wants regardless of how expensive despite me specifically and repeatedly telling her not to. But she does it to buy his love... .And it's working. When he sees her all he keeps saying is "want to go to grandmas house." Over and over like a knife in my stomach... ."please mama? How about now? Please?" And my mom has a massive look of triumph on her face as she says "grandma is not saying no. Ask your mama." And as casually says "kids are so pure of heart. They know who loves them. And regardless of anyone trying to keep them away and teaching them to hate certain people, they won't... ." And then breaks it with "like he won't stay away from the teachers he likes will he?" And her saying things like "love is two sides. If I'm obsessed with him, he's obsessed with me." When my son repeatedly clings to the woman who had taken so much from me, I feel so so angry at my son... .But it's not his fault. He's 2 and grandma buys him anything he wants . Despite the limited contact, I still fear the influence on him as he grows up. Once my mom even said "your just afraid that he wil be on my side." The fact that she thought there were "sides" scared the hell out of me! My son pushes me away when she's around much to her delight... .Does anyone have a solution or advice? I just want to move farrrr away from her!

[HappyChappy]

My mother made my life hell... .And my mom has a massive look of triumph on her face as she says "grandma is not saying no. Ask your mama." ... .I feel so so angry at my son... .But it's not his fault.

Sorry to hear your dilemma, but it is A-typical behaviour from a BPD. BPD manipulate and set us against each other, divide and conquer style. So it does sound like your BPD is doing this to you and hence your anger at your son. But never forget, this is down to expert BPD manipulation. This is not your fault or your son's fault. Unfortunately, your son it too young to know what’s happening (which is why he’s such a good target). So your solutions are to set healthy boundaries or consider LC or NC.

One boundary we now insist on, is that a parent is always present if my BPDm is around. This is because she would tell our kids one fib, then tell us another fib and then sit back and watch us argue among ourselves. Another boundary is to forbid our BPD giving presents directly, because she has triangulated our kids, and only rewarded one so the other gets jealous. So we would confiscate all rewards and divide them equally. But as my BPDm is so aggressive and use to getting her way, she normally laughs in the face of boundaries.  Which is why we’ve been NC for 18 months, but that hasn’t stopped our BPD continually contacting our kids, whilst completely ignoring us.  But on the up side, you have options: boundaries, LC or NC. Which will you use ?

[MiserableDaughter]

I have a more limited contact. They saw him today after about 3 weeks. He kept screaming that he wanted to go to grandmas house, so instead of having him repeatedly say it all day, I let them take him to their house for a few hours. I specifically told my mom no more toys. Whst did she do? She took him to the toy store and bought him a $60 toy.  Her excuse... .Sorry... .But all grandparents spoil their grandkids! That's what all my friends say! Thru all spoil their grandkids! That's the excuse... .She completely does exactly what I ask her not to. Then she wonders why she gets limited time with him. She never listens to anything I say about him. Yesterday we were in a restaurant and he fell asleep in car on way there. We had to wake him up to go in. My mom refused to put him down. I was like mom put him in his high chair... .He needs to eat. Nope. Was just clinging to him cause he was hakf asleep on her chest. I was like mom, you are putting him back to sleep! (They stayed over my place last night since started snowing.) at night my son did not want to go up to bed (as usual) and my mom again Woukd not let go of him. I was like "mom let go. He always does this at night!" I had to pry him away. She drives me crazy. She has no respect for anything I say abd deliberately does what I ask her not to just to overstep me in "grandma" powers. And when I've confronted it's gotten so horribly ugly and worse for me that it's not even worth it. I seriously want to move far away. Even with limited contact worried about impact on my son!

[Cloud 9]

I wish I could help you. I am the grandma my soon to be xdnl and my disabled vet son. He has PTSD TBI. The whole marriage has been Toxic. My son was a stay at home dad, I helped him every day. My dnl was always gone on a cruise, weekend to Memphis some where. There was one year we may have saw her twice a week. She has had affairs now she has managed to take the kids. She don't want them so she leaves them any where but with us. You stick to your boundaries. It sounds like your a good mother still struggling from your child hood. I'm sorry. Your son will get past the age of being bought I promise. I always done what my dnl said but it wasn't much of a problem because she was never there. When the oldest child was about 18 months she said I'm gonna have another baby to see if I can get one that likes me. I can't imagine. I didn't want to parent in my old age I wanted to be grandma but they needed some body. Now I'm hopelessly in love with them and I don't even know where they are. I've gone from volunteering at school to this since October. I don't know what to do? My 6 year old is expecting me to fix this. I say a prayer for you.

[Turkish]

MD, in a perfect world, I would agree that grandparents are there to spoil the children. Your son is at that delicate age between toddlerhood and being a little person who all of a sudden starts communicating like a little person. It's also the critical stage where attachments are important developmentally.

Have you seen the article on emotional incest at the top of the board? It's a harsh term, and it may not be quite as severe in this case, but it sounds like she's desperately attaching to her grandson to fill her emptiness. Her use of the word "obsessed" is quite concerning, and I think literal in this case. Your son has an excuse... .he's 2.

Do you feel guilt when you're setting down boundaries? It sounds like there may be a gap in your feelings between what you feel is duty and what you need to do in order to protect your son.

[HappyChappy]

MD I do feel for you. Your post evidences a repeated lack of respect from your BPD. But never forget, the lack of respect is not personal or a function of how you behave, when a BPD is involved. A mature BPD, is unlikely change in that respect. But you can learn to manage the situation in a way that’s more beneficial to you. There are loads to tools, in that respect on this website. We also live too close to our BPD, but in honesty, setting boundaries can be done however close your BPD is. Granted, it’s harder if you’re close.

Also when we went NC, we became aware of how strongly our BPD had influenced us. She has us believe our son’s behaviour was out of control, when his teachers and other parents thought he was Angelic.  Many of our BPD manipulation techniques were reliant on repeating messages, by nagging, or jumping to incorrect negative assumptions. But as research shows and any marketing professional will tell you, it is the frequency of the message, above all else that is essential in propaganda. So limited contact is essential in our case. So what boundaries do you think will help in your situation ?    

[claudiaduffy]

MiserableDaughter,

 This response is going to be a little blunt, because blunt responses are the ones that have been of most help to me.

She completely does exactly what I ask her not to. Then she wonders why she gets limited time with him.

It does not sound like further limited time works as a reinforcement of your boundary here. What about refusing to allow your son to be alone with your mom entirely? What about stating specifically that the very next time toys are given, visits to her home will stop entirely - and then keeping that promise? You are the only one who can protect your own boundaries. If you don't keep them, they won't really... .exist. The only way to for-sure keep someone from stepping over the line you draw is to keep them from being able to even approach the line.

My mom refused to put him down. I was like mom put him in his high chair... .He needs to eat. Nope. Was just clinging to him cause he was hakf asleep on her chest... .at night my son did not want to go up to bed (as usual) and my mom again Woukd not let go of him. I was like "mom let go. He always does this at night!" I had to pry him away.

This is alarming, MD. Your mother asserting authority over your son's body, his physical location, is a HUGE thing. It's a kind of kidnapping, right in your presence. It is not right.

She has no respect for anything I say abd deliberately does what I ask her not to just to overstep me in "grandma" powers. And when I've confronted it's gotten so horribly ugly and worse for me that it's not even worth it.

That's where it's up to you. That's where you choose what it means to be responsible for your own decisions. You can't control your mom; it's not your job to control your mom. But you can decide what is right for your own family and take the necessary steps to ensure your family is not violated. If you give up because "it's not even worth it," that means that you are allowing her to violate you. You are helping her to continue violating you. You are agreeing that she has that "grandma power". But really, MD - she does not have to have that power over you. It is only there if you continue to bend under her abuse.

... .I hope that putting things so black-and-white doesn't come across as uncaring. I care a lot.  :'( I hate, hate, hate it that so many of us are in families where this is what we have to do to remain sane and safe. I have to keep putting things in harsh black-and-white terms for myself to keep my uBPDmil and uBPDmom and uNPDgrandfather outside the range where they can abuse my boundaries. It's so sad, but gosh, taking power over my own life and choices is so gloriously freeing.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi MD,

I'm reading this thread with great interest, not for myself so much as it is bringing lots of insight and understanding to me regarding my uBPDm and my nieces and nephew. I lived far away from my uBPDm when I was raising my family, 1200 miles away, and I am so thankful. My sister however, lived only 20 minutes from her. When my sister got married and had her first child, she asked our uBPDm to watch her baby because she had to return to work fulltime. My sister always said she thought our mom was the best choice.

I went to visit them from time to time, and I remember my sister having to 'fight' to be the mom of her daughter and take care of her when we went to a restaurant for example. Our uBPDm wanted to do it all, and essentially my niece was quite confused as to who her mother really was. Sometimes she would even call her grandma "mom." Oh how my sister said it would pierce her heart. Gma would go behind my sister's back or sometimes play her role as mom right in front of her and make a joke of it, how she would be the caretaker rather than my sister. When my sister would confront her, our mom would become furious, stop talking to them, guilt trip them, threaten suicide... .Eventually there was some understanding between them, but the lines were thinly defined, and gma would constantly step over them. Our uBPDm would have contact with them often on a daily basis, or at least several times a week, frequently babysitting. None of us knew that mom was BPD at that time although we knew something was wrong.

Fast forward to when my niece was 6 years old and had two siblings. I would look at her and see so many reminders of myself as a small child: quiet, withdrawn, in love with gma, putting others before herself always, able to share with and speak to adults even though she was only 6 years old, and many other things. It is an eerie sensation because I felt sure those were the effects of being around gma. Gma passed away about the time that my niece turned 7. She was devastated, even named her doll after gma. I happen to look a lot like gma so she would cling to me a lot. 

The good news is that her parents are encouraging her to open up and share her feelings as much as possible now. My sister would often tell me that her daughter was such a happy baby but she seemed to lose that as she spent time with gma. My sister would also tell me that it was good that I didn't live close by when my children were young because our uBPD mom was a constant battle for her to deal with. The competition was fierce between them and she would cause my sister to feel like a bad or inadequate mom.

Hang in there. Set up those boundaries and stick with them. For your child's sake, do it. You've been offered lots of good sound advice from the other members in this thread about their own experiences. Wisdom worth it's weight in gold from those who understand and are going through or have gone through the same thing.  I truly am so sorry for the frustration and anger you are going through right now.

Woolspinner

[MiserableDaughter]

Hello all, thank you for the comments. So Basically, I've let him go to their house because the contstant comments and smothering around me makes me ill. Truly sick to my stomach. I told my mom off a few months ago big time. They were watching my son during the day because I had no choice. My son was sick, and I had to be at work and his sitter etc were not available. I called to ask how he was and my mom tells me they were driving to my house (they took him out) and then were coming back to my place and my son started as screaming "no wanna go home! Wanna go grandma house!" And that she just told him we have to her your clothes and he screams "no need clothes! Wanna go grandma house!" I just chuckled (trying to ignore and mask my irritation). Then I came home and the same story was repeated to me in complete glee! You would think she was jumping up and down and clapping her hands! I just lost it... .But still very calmly "yes, mom I know he wants to come to grandma's house." My tonality must have sounded irritated so my parents just jumped on me saying how I kept my son away from them, how my husband "snatched" him away from my mom when she was holding him etc etc. Even went on to go on and on about my husbands mom and how if she was around he wouldn't snatch him (my mother in law lives in India! She's seen my son like twice! And she's sane! And yes my husband tells her off allllll the time when she is around him and doesn't do something right with my son!) all the venom she had stored spewed out. I also fought back, but it was soo nonsensical that it was like banging my head on a brick wall. I had misery on that for months because she was always miserable when I talked to her. I have too many issues already. My husbsgd has heart disease, I have MS, and we have a messy marriage in the first place (mostly all because of my mom... ) so the last think I want to deal with is more of her misery. Right now my strategy is limited visits despite the constant guilt trips and examples of her friends who watch their grandkids all the time blah blah. But even in those infrequent visits she spews some venom so I prefer to stay away. I let her have the few hours with him, and that's it. He's young right now but I fear what type of things she'll teach him as he grows. My husband and I are seriously contemplating moving far away for some space... .After all she's done to me, I still feel guilty for moving! Or wanting to! Isn't that crazy? I get so mad at myself but I feel guilt!

[Forever to Roam]

My husband and I are seriously contemplating moving far away for some space... .After all she's done to me, I still feel guilty for moving! Or wanting to! Isn't that crazy? I get so mad at myself but I feel guilt!

I'd say, you don't need to be mad at yourself for feeling guilt, it's not crazy - it's what you've been trained to feel when going against mom's wishes. But, if you know where it comes from, and are understanding towards yourself, it is more possible to work through it, I think. I strongly advise indeed moving away. I do not know all your situation, but I do know that getting that space is very helpful. Maybe you can find good doctors for MS and heart disease elsewhere in the country and if you don't feel quite up to telling her that she's the reason you're moving, you can tell her it's because of the great doctors at this other place. While I don't have children, I do know that when suddenly 2500 miles separated me and my mom, suddenly the marital issues between me and my husband were far easier to deal with and resolve.

Sending good wishes/luck/prayers in your direction.

[MiserableDaughter]

Thanks. Yeah, my older bro has always been across the country. Now he's closer and getting married at 41. He is totally messed up and constantly enables my mom. He knows how messes up she is and talks to me about it... .But then I've seen texts he sends my mom... .Sick ... ."mom we are so lucky to have the best mom in the world who does so much for her kids... ." Because it's what she likes to hear. He lies to me all the time and says mom makes up stuff he says but when I accidentally saw his text, he is the one who's lying. A few months back, when he got engaged and seemed like he was getting slightly more assertive with my mom, I was like he's closer geographically now so we can at least have each other's support... .And his fiancée is really nice except she is also from a crazy family. Her mom is similar to mine, and she can't say a word to her either... .So she will never be assertve to my mom either. My mom has literally told my brother that no one would have married his fiancée because her family is so uneducated and backward... .And my brother happily throws his fiancée and her family under the bus just so my mom is happy. He just agrees with everything my mom says. He tells me that's his "strategy." I think it's awful. If his fiancée found out she would be so heart broken. Anyways, I know I will never have any support from him cause he just watches his own back... .And my mom thinks that my husband is brainwashing me, since her son thinks she's so great... .So it must be my husband brainwashing me. Anyways my point is that I was hoping my bro and I could support each other a bit but I can't expect that either... .So no point in him being closer. And yet I've always been the one closeby... .Celebrating everything with them and biting my tongue... .Doing everything to balance my home and sanity and what she wants... .At my own expense. And yet I feel guilty for thinking of moving away and taking her only grandchild away (her reason for living she says... .Ugh) argh

[Forever to Roam]

And my mom thinks that my husband is brainwashing me, since her son thinks she's so great... .So it must be my husband brainwashing me.

My mom's used that one too. He's brainwashing me, and I'm susceptible because I'm so weak of character and gullible. When I was little I believed in what she believed in, and now that I don't, my husband is brainwashing me. I even believed it for a little while when I was completely and utterly depressed. Her most recent version of this theory was that he gave me a date-rape drug to get me to marry him, and a doctor said it could make someone's personality change, and it makes sense to her because I'm a completely different person, she says.

It seems to me that brainwashing is a convenient way to split people between good and bad. You were all good, but now you're all bad, and that must be because you're brainwashed. Or in your case: one child thinks she's great the other doesn't, you must be brainwashed. It's a very self-protective thought, since the BPD self is so fragile: none of this is my fault, and it couldn't be from when you were little because that would make my mothering bad, so it must be something else (ie. that horrible man who took you away from me!).

Anyways my point is that I was hoping my bro and I could support each other a bit but I can't expect that either... .So no point in him being closer.

I am sorry to hear this. I keep hoping that my sisters and I can support each other too, but no luck yet.

Celebrating everything with them and biting my tongue... .Doing everything to balance my home and sanity and what she wants... .At my own expense. And yet I feel guilty for thinking of moving away and taking her only grandchild away (her reason for living she says... .Ugh) argh

How unfortunate that she doesn't view her own children as "her reason for living," just her grandchild. Regardless, continuing on like this seems to be damaging you, your son, and your husband. You must take care of yourself and your family. It is not right to be catering to her at your own expense: even parents aren't supposed to cater to their children, let alone children to their parents! You take care of children, which sometimes means discipline. So whether with a child, or with your mother, boundaries must be held (which is going to make you feel guilty, but know that you are doing the right thing), and moving away could make it a lot easier to hold those boundaries.

[vortex of confusion]

I have been following your thread and wanted to comment on a few things.

First, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries! Your son is 2 and has no idea what is going on. All he knows is that grandma gives him lots of stuff and lots of attention. I know how annoying it is as my mother played this same game with all of my nieces and nephews and with my children as well. Moving 800 miles away didn't work. Her and dad would drive up and see us anyway and it was even MORE difficult to assert boundaries because there was the guilt trip of "we came all this way".

My girls are older now and my 13 year old recently came home from an overnight with grandma and said, "Mom, grandma's reality is broken." I tell you that to give you some hope. 

A couple of things to do that have nothing to do with your mom. Make sure that you have firm boundaries. See if you can set up a schedule of when he can/can't see grandma. Build in some predictability if possible so that you can tell him AND grandma a set time/date so that when either of them start bugging you, you can say, "You will get to see each other at such and such."

Teach your son boundaries. Allow him to exert control of his body. It is difficult to explain but my mother has this thing about hugs. She wants to hug and hold, etc. When my kids were younger, they loved it. As they got older, they got a bit uncomfortable with it. I have tried to let them know that it is okay to say NO.

Make sure that as your son gets older that you teach him NO secrets. I started that with my kids early on. If somebody tells you a secret or says 'don't tell mom and dad', then the FIRST thing you do is tell mom or dad. I upset my MIL with that because she told my 6 year old what she got me for Christmas and my 6 year old promptly told me because grandma said it was a secret. I explained to MIL that I had taken a class at church about child predators and one of the things that they rely on is that they rely on things like secrecy. I know that my parents have used the secret thing and the "don't tell mom and dad thing" on numerous occasions with my nieces and nephews. They have tried it with my kids but my kids and I have a good relationship so they are pretty apt to tell me right away.

Try to build a strong relationship with your son. The better relationship you have with your son, the easier it will be for him to communicate with you about things. I don't really know how to explain it but I saw how my parents would undermine my sisters' authority and pit the kids against their parents. They have tried it with me as well but it hasn't worked because I saw how they played the game and I tried to take steps to prevent it.

Now, my parents don't have hardly anything to do with my kids because my kids don't get sucked up into the grandma trap. It wasn't always that way though. It has taken lots of time and patience on my part. There are some things that I have had to overlook. The gifts are annoying and are a clear violation of your wishes. However, that might be an area that you can overlook. Use it to your advantage if possible. If there is something that your son wants and that you would like for him to have, encourage him to ask grandma for it. My MIL likes the idea of having grandkids but doesn't actually like kids. She likes throwing money at them so I find things that she can get the kids that I am okay with. And, it takes the push/pull out of the equation.

[aubin]

Hello all, thank you for the comments. So Basically, I've let him go to their house because the contstant comments and smothering around me makes me ill. Truly sick to my stomach. ... .After all she's done to me, I still feel guilty for moving! Or wanting to! Isn't that crazy? I get so mad at myself but I feel guilt!

Hi MD,

I understand what you mean that you get literally sick around your pwBPD. I have a similar situation with my uBPD mother. My entire childhood I was constantly wrought with all kinds of ailments and whenever I was around my mother as an adult I would get sick. Finally, my body started to shut down -- fainting spells, tunnel vision, massive migraines. From my T, I learned that such bodily physical responses are actually signs of trauma, PTSD. And the way to stem and eventually stop that physical reaction is to first remove yourself from it. It took getting to the point that I seriously thought I was going to have a heart attack or a stroke to finally decide to cut contact with uBPD mom. I went NC with my uBPD mother for just over 1.5 years. A few weeks ago we (myself and my toddler son) saw her for the first time. I was astonished that I was able to not be triggered by her much. I don't know if I will continue to see her but I do know that creating some distance gave me the time and space to process and to heal.

Contemplating NC is very serious and a difficult step to take; it's not for everyone. But even just creating some distance for a month or two could allow you to clear your head, make a plan, and decide how to move forward with your mother. Please take care of yourself.