Wife refusing to divorce...

[Depression = 72% of members]

My dBPDw is is refusing to divorce,  I filled many months ago.     There is a 2 year wait in my state is she refuses to sign the papers.   Just venting... .

How much support did you get from counselors about your decision to leave your marriage.  Yes most counselors will not tell you leave (I have had that happen).   and most of the others counselors will not tell you that your are making the correct decision by leaving.  BUT,  I have talked to counselors that pretty tell,  "how did you make it as far as you have with you wife?",  "are you really ok?"   You experienced some pretty crazy stuff and I am worried about you?

[Mike76]

My dBPDw is is refusing to divorce,  I filled many months ago.     There is a 2 year wait in my state is she refuses to sign the papers.   Just venting... .

How much support did you get from counselors about your decision to leave your marriage.  Yes most counselors will not tell you leave (I have had that happen).   and most of the others counselors will not tell you that your are making the correct decision by leaving.  BUT,  I have talked to counselors that pretty tell,  "how did you make it as far as you have with you wife?",  "are you really ok?"   You experienced some pretty crazy stuff and I am worried about you?

[downwhim]

My dBPDw is is refusing to divorce,  I filled many months ago.     There is a 2 year wait in my state is she refuses to sign the papers.   Just venting... .

How much support did you get from counselors about your decision to leave your marriage.  Yes most counselors will not tell you leave (I have had that happen).   and most of the others counselors will not tell you that your are making the correct decision by leaving.  BUT,  I have talked to counselors that pretty tell,  "how did you make it as far as you have with you wife?",  "are you really ok?"   You experienced some pretty crazy stuff and I am worried about you?

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I can't believe you have a two year wait. That is crazy! I have had most counselors say I need to figure out what I want and will not tell me to stay or leave.

[goateeki]

Two things, one on the refusal to divorce and the other on whether a therapist would/should/has recommended that a marriage end.

First, my T did recommend that the marriage end, in so many words.  I have a lot of respect for him (he's a cognitive behavioral therapist) and he began to speak about the two choices that confronted me.  He spoke about how, given my dBPDxw's behavior (which had become disturbing) and her refusal to participate meaningfully in MC, or even to speak about whether she wanted a divorce, I was facing ten years of her in therapy with a team of therapists.  He also remarked that she was fighting MC every step of the way, and that any person who was capable of introspection would have settled down and begun to participate meaningfully in MC by that point (six months).  He told me how she, in order to work on her issues, almost could not be in any kind of relationship, that my detachment from her would have to remain "almost clinical" for ten years or more, and that this is not an environment that permits marriage.   

The other path, which he touched on when speaking about why there really was not an environment in which a marriage could exist, was about what it would be like if I stayed.  He talked about her need for Gandhi-like levels of detachment, and asked if I was able "to make such an enormous compromise with life." 

Here's what I wanted to point out about her refusal or non-cooperation in divorce.  I began to speak about divorce years ago, because -- like so many of us here -- I knew that if I did not find an oasis in this desert, I'd die.  I am a resourceful person with many lifelong, reciprocal and supportive relationships, but we all need to have that one person in our corner.  I never had this with her, and knew I never would.  She was very resistant to the idea of divorce.  She would cry and act helpless, and we could not reach an agreement on it, yet she did nothing to provide me with some basic level of understanding and affection.

Then I realized that I was to her a payer of bills.  She even said at one point during MC that she would, and I quote "love it if I would help around the house, play with the kids, pay the bills, and we could be like roommates."  At that point it was pretty black and white to me.  To these people -- and they are not people like you and me -- other humans are a means to an end.  So if your stbxw continues to resist divorce, maybe try to understand that her heart is not like your heart, and the primary reason she resists divorce is not because she loves you (she almost certainly cannot love you), but because her marriage to you provides some kind of practical support for the life she wants to live. 

A friend of mine, whose wife was diagnosed with NPD and bipolar disorder, and whose sexuality has shifted several times, said to me "one thing I learned, which I did not think I would learn, is that in the end, it's all about money to these people. It's about money and what you can do for them, what use you can be to them."

Mike76, you might not hear it from your counselor, but I'll be happy to put my two cents in.  It's never going to get better, so there seems to be no reason in persisting in the marriage, right?  This is more or less what my T said to me. 

[Zon]

Two things, one on the refusal to divorce and the other on whether a therapist would/should/has recommended that a marriage end.

First, my T did recommend that the marriage end, in so many words.  I have a lot of respect for him (he's a cognitive behavioral therapist) and he began to speak about the two choices that confronted me.  He spoke about how, given my dBPDxw's behavior (which had become disturbing) and her refusal to participate meaningfully in MC, or even to speak about whether she wanted a divorce, I was facing ten years of her in therapy with a team of therapists.  He also remarked that she was fighting MC every step of the way, and that any person who was capable of introspection would have settled down and begun to participate meaningfully in MC by that point (six months).  He told me how she, in order to work on her issues, almost could not be in any kind of relationship, that my detachment from her would have to remain "almost clinical" for ten years or more, and that this is not an environment that permits marriage.   

The other path, which he touched on when speaking about why there really was not an environment in which a marriage could exist, was about what it would be like if I stayed.  He talked about her need for Gandhi-like levels of detachment, and asked if I was able "to make such an enormous compromise with life." 

Thank you.  I am going to ask my therapist about what I face if I stay or if I go at the next session.

Here's what I wanted to point out about her refusal or non-cooperation in divorce.  I began to speak about divorce years ago, because -- like so many of us here -- I knew that if I did not find an oasis in this desert, I'd die.  I am a resourceful person with many lifelong, reciprocal and supportive relationships, but we all need to have that one person in our corner.  I never had this with her, and knew I never would.  She was very resistant to the idea of divorce.  She would cry and act helpless, and we could not reach an agreement on it, yet she did nothing to provide me with some basic level of understanding and affection.

My wife has used threats to leave me to manipulate me.  In one case, you could say it was for my own good, but it was extreme for that scenario.  I was depressed (probably by her) and had a hard time getting myself to work.  She threatened to leave me if I lost my job.  Speaking of jobs, she has not had a full-time job in a long time (years) although she holds a degree.

I do not know how she will react if I agree or tell her it is over of my own volition.  She may not like her bluff being called, or she may accept it.  I do feel that she will get very, very cold.

Then I realized that I was to her a payer of bills.  She even said at one point during MC that she would, and I quote "love it if I would help around the house, play with the kids, pay the bills, and we could be like roommates."  At that point it was pretty black and white to me.  To these people -- and they are not people like you and me -- other humans are a means to an end.  So if your stbxw continues to resist divorce, maybe try to understand that her heart is not like your heart, and the primary reason she resists divorce is not because she loves you (she almost certainly cannot love you), but because her marriage to you provides some kind of practical support for the life she wants to live. 

Just today, my wife was saying MC was not moving fast enough for her.  I think it is because I am not changing the way(s) she wants me to change.  Anyway, she said our marriage is purely on paper.  The important bit was that she said as long as I pay her expenses, she is fine with it.  Now, she is not an expensive person, but I am not fine with that arrangement.

A friend of mine, whose wife was diagnosed with NPD and bipolar disorder, and whose sexuality has shifted several times, said to me "one thing I learned, which I did not think I would learn, is that in the end, it's all about money to these people. It's about money and what you can do for them, what use you can be to them."

I suspect traits of BPD and NPD for my wife.

[Mike76]

When I first started reading this boards 3 years ago  "The staying section",  I heard to some say MC is not always a great option.   I got my wife to MC with one goal in mind... .get her into individual T.  It worked, and we only wend to the MC once or twice.     Later after my wife started T, we went back to a different MC.     We stayed with the same MC for a year until I said I was done and wanted a divorce.   My wife recently told me I did not realize why we were at MC.  I did not know I needed to change.  

Although my wife as a BPD diagnosed,  I do believe she does... .I wonder if I may be secondary to another illness.

[goateeki]

Although my wife as a BPD diagnosed,  I do believe she does... .I wonder if I may be secondary to another illness.

I don't know if I understand this.  What does this mean? Is she diagnosed? You're saying she could have some other disorder? 

[Mike76]

Although my wife as a BPD diagnosed,  I do believe she does... .I wonder if I may be secondary to another illness.

I don't know if I understand this.  What does this mean? Is she diagnosed? You're saying she could have some other disorder? 

My wife is diagnosed most is BPD... .But from my understanding borderline is usually a comorbid illness.  I am starting to believe "other illness",  my be more dominate than the borderline. 

[goateeki]

Mine was BPD and NPD traits, plus complex PTSD.  A charming human being, as you can probably tell.