Crossing the line from "breaking up" to "separated"

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm realizing once again that the words I use do matter.

I catch myself thinking of myself as separated from my wife, rather than breaking up from my wife. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but it does represent crossing another tipping point.

I'm realizing that it is time that I acknowledge that when I speak with people and my wife somehow comes up. That I start saying I'm separated, or that I'm planning to do things without my wife, etc.

Not in the "Let me blat forth about how my wife left our marriage... ." kind of way--most people I run into aren't appropriate for that information... .and most of the people in my life who are already have heard it. Just in the factual "This is my life" kind of way, like I used to say I was married, or where my hometown is, etc.

It is a little different when it comes to telling semi-distant people that my circumstance isn't the same one that I told them about a few months or a year ago. That still requires thinking about.

In my last topic https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271318.0;all I mentioned the last communications about our relationship I got from my wife, and how it just left me thinking What the heck? and feeling kinda crappy.

Grey, thank you so much for coming to [event]. I understand why you need space. But I want you to know how much I like you, love you, and appreciate you. Please don't give up on our marriage.

I've said that my biggest fear is that she will offer me something half-way between what she has offered me and f what I want/need in a relationship, and I'll have to make that very tough choice.

So far I'm safe. This message wasn't anywhere near a half-way measure!

It feels to me like there isn't any marriage there anymore, and she's not willing to put anything into it. She says she isn't committed to me, and can't figure out how to do it. She told me she has no desire for sex/kissing/nakedness around me. She said she doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with me. She originally cut contact with the guy she cheated with, when I said it was a requirement for reconciliation, and now says she won't have sex with him, but she 'cut contact on her terms, not mine' (retroactively clarified/backtracked on!), and will be friends with him. Plus she's text-flirting with guy2 a lot last time I was close enough to her to see--I'm OK with her being a flirt... .but not this next part. She admitted that she is in an emotional affair with guy2 a while back. While we were still in MC, she admitted that her relationship with guy2 was 'not helping our marriage', but didn't offer to change what she was doing with guy2. I didn't ask her to either. (I'd asked her not to cheat with the first guy, and nothing good came of that!)

Geez, I guess I've still got some feelings about her, as I type out that list! I've already mentioned these things to my wife somewhere between once and a hundred times.

I've decided that saying any of it again to her is just a chance to give her something to react to by first being 'persuaded' to do it for our marriage, then deciding that she can't/shouldn't/was controlled/whatever, and then change her mind/break free/whatever.

If she comes to me saying she regrets doing some (all?) of these things and wants to change, I've got to make the really tough choice of whether i believe her or not, and how much I'm willing to risk being vulnerable about it.

I feel wiser and safer not repeating any of these things with her, instead making clear with my actions and a few words that I'm living my life as if our marriage is over.

It is funny... .four months ago, she was telling me she wasn't sure she could ever come back to our marriage. Today I'm not seeing any way I can take her back into it as she is.

Separated is an attitude. I'm not 100% settled into it, however I am going there, and finding more peace as I make it there. I've said that I'm not leaving the door open anymore, but I am leaving a light on if she wants to come and knock on it. That is still true... .just feeling less likely these days.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm realizing once again that the words I use do matter.

I catch myself thinking of myself as separated from my wife, rather than breaking up from my wife. It doesn't sound like a big difference, but it does represent crossing another tipping point.

I'm realizing that it is time that I acknowledge that when I speak with people and my wife somehow comes up. That I start saying I'm separated, or that I'm planning to do things without my wife, etc.

Not in the "Let me blat forth about how my wife left our marriage... ." kind of way--most people I run into aren't appropriate for that information... .and most of the people in my life who are already have heard it. Just in the factual "This is my life" kind of way, like I used to say I was married, or where my hometown is, etc.

It is a little different when it comes to telling semi-distant people that my circumstance isn't the same one that I told them about a few months or a year ago. That still requires thinking about.

In my last topic https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271318.0;all I mentioned the last communications about our relationship I got from my wife, and how it just left me thinking What the heck? and feeling kinda crappy.

Grey, thank you so much for coming to [event]. I understand why you need space. But I want you to know how much I like you, love you, and appreciate you. Please don't give up on our marriage.

I've said that my biggest fear is that she will offer me something half-way between what she has offered me and f what I want/need in a relationship, and I'll have to make that very tough choice.

So far I'm safe. This message wasn't anywhere near a half-way measure!

It feels to me like there isn't any marriage there anymore, and she's not willing to put anything into it. She says she isn't committed to me, and can't figure out how to do it. She told me she has no desire for sex/kissing/nakedness around me. She said she doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with me. She originally cut contact with the guy she cheated with, when I said it was a requirement for reconciliation, and now says she won't have sex with him, but she 'cut contact on her terms, not mine' (retroactively clarified/backtracked on!), and will be friends with him. Plus she's text-flirting with guy2 a lot last time I was close enough to her to see--I'm OK with her being a flirt... .but not this next part. She admitted that she is in an emotional affair with guy2 a while back. While we were still in MC, she admitted that her relationship with guy2 was 'not helping our marriage', but didn't offer to change what she was doing with guy2. I didn't ask her to either. (I'd asked her not to cheat with the first guy, and nothing good came of that!)

Geez, I guess I've still got some feelings about her, as I type out that list! I've already mentioned these things to my wife somewhere between once and a hundred times.

I've decided that saying any of it again to her is just a chance to give her something to react to by first being 'persuaded' to do it for our marriage, then deciding that she can't/shouldn't/was controlled/whatever, and then change her mind/break free/whatever.

If she comes to me saying she regrets doing some (all?) of these things and wants to change, I've got to make the really tough choice of whether i believe her or not, and how much I'm willing to risk being vulnerable about it.

I feel wiser and safer not repeating any of these things with her, instead making clear with my actions and a few words that I'm living my life as if our marriage is over.

It is funny... .four months ago, she was telling me she wasn't sure she could ever come back to our marriage. Today I'm not seeing any way I can take her back into it as she is.

Separated is an attitude. I'm not 100% settled into it, however I am going there, and finding more peace as I make it there. I've said that I'm not leaving the door open anymore, but I am leaving a light on if she wants to come and knock on it. That is still true... .just feeling less likely these days.

[OnceConfused]

You are always ALONE but you are only LONELY if you don't like the one you are with.

[Mutt]

She told me she has no desire for sex/kissing/nakedness around me. She said she doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with me. She originally cut contact with the guy she cheated with, when I said it was a requirement for reconciliation, and now says she won't have sex with him, but she 'cut contact on her terms, not mine' (retroactively clarified/backtracked on!), and will be friends with him. Plus she's text-flirting with guy2 a lot last time I was close enough to her to see--I'm OK with her being a flirt... .but not this next part. She admitted that she is in an emotional affair with guy2 a while back. While we were still in MC, she admitted that her relationship with guy2 was 'not helping our marriage', but didn't offer to change what she was doing with guy2. I didn't ask her to either. (I'd asked her not to cheat with the first guy, and nothing good came of that!)

I'm so sorry your going through this.

This sounds iffy Grey.

It sounds like she's detaching and she's not respecting boundaries by saying she's doing it on her terms and lack of boundaries for herself.

It also sounds like she's leaving it open with triangulation with two other potential people.

[Grey Kitty]

This sounds iffy Grey.

It sounds like she's detaching and she's not respecting boundaries by saying she's doing it on her terms and lack of boundaries for herself.

It also sounds like she's leaving it open with triangulation with two other potential people.

Yup, everything I'm getting from her does sound iffy. That's why I'm working my heart and mind to being separated. (Divorced has its own timetable, mine is later... .possibly fall, or next year. Dunno what my wife's timetable will be on that.)



I heard from her yesterday about an art project I planned to do... .which she has some reason for some involvement with... .which left me feeling crappy... .did a bit more grieving my marriage last night, although I'm generally feeling better about going forward with my life.

Today I heard she's bring jerked around regarding where she is staying and how long... .and is passing it along to me... .at least a little bit. I'm going to be giving her all her things from our boat soon. She may want some of our joint household items/tools that were here. I really don't want to give her half of everything and have to replace it all... .but don't know what she's going to ask for, or how that's going to go. Not looking forward to that, but will be glad to be done with it. Won't have to deal with it 'till next week.

[MaroonLiquid]

GK, I get where you are coming from on saying you're separated.  I still can't say that even though it's been 8 months.  It's a line I can't cross yet and don't know that I want to.  It's almost like a "point of no return" so to speak.

[Grey Kitty]

GK, I get where you are coming from on saying you're separated.  I still can't say that even though it's been 8 months.  It's a line I can't cross yet and don't know that I want to.  It's almost like a "point of no return" so to speak.

It took me a long time to get here myself. In my case, four months, with a couple weeks traveling together in the middle... .which I thought we were reconciling at the start of, and realized not midway through, but didn't let myself feel / address 'till after.

However... .it really isn't a point of no return. At least the state of mind isn't for me. Every day seems like one day farther apart. If my wife was willing to commit to our marriage, I could go back still. Just a little more each day.

We're currently negotiating for her to get her belongings and her share of joint belongings from our boat next week. So far we've been kinda circling around each other almost sparring or posturing ahead of negotiations. Right now I've asked her to give me a list of what she wants for my review ahead of time.

This is probably going to be a bigger step apart. (I know you've already taken all those steps, and have a separate residence, ML.)

[Grey Kitty]

In the last week I've done one last email discussion with my wife about the possibility of our marriage working out... .and more negotiations about dividing up physical stuff aboard the boat.

Accomplishments today:

1. Pack stuff for my wife to take off my boat, and carry it down. (The part not packed yesterday)

2. Discuss and divide more stuff, while watching her shoehorn it into her car.

3. Get confirmation from her that she really is done with our marriage.

4. Tell two people in the boatyard, one I don't even remember the name of.

5. Do two loads of laundry.

6. Ride my bicycle for about an hour to mail off the check to the courts to pay for my reduced speeding ticket.

7. Still feel hungry, having not had more than a quick snack a couple times today.

8. Put away some of the things my wife didn't take.

I might still get the energy to eat something, or possibly cook something. What a day!

[patientandclear]

GK--I know there has been a lot of incremental shifting on your part and maybe this isn't a clear breaking point, but i'm guessing it feels that, buried amongst the laundry and errands, something major changed today. I hope you're at peace. You did all you could to make it possible to continue in the marriage on mutually respectful terms. I hope the next chapter has some unexpected joys in store for you. You really deserve them.

[Grey Kitty]

P&C, this is indeed the final clear ending point. Over the last couple months especially, it has been getting clear. My wife has been figuring out what she needs, and her message has been getting clearer. I've been doing a lot of processing on my part, and seeing that there isn't anything in the marriage for me more and more clearly.

I just had a sad realization this morning: I wonder if my wife would have done something different if she had chosen an emotionally safe place for herself.

Almost 11 months ago she left the boat. The boat was our home, and hauled out in the boatyard wasn't a good place for her on it. Her lover had died suddenly the prior fall, and she was grieving, depressed, anxious, and needing something different.

She went to stay with a friend... .sadly one who had her own mental illness... .and that living situation she had so much hope for finding a place to heal at blew up (not too surprising--I remember wondering about that at the time!). Then she bounced from place to place, which wasn't what she needed--The feelings of living out of a suitcase and needing to be "ON" and be a good guest weren't giving her space to heal.

At the beginning of this year, I pushed her to STOP RUNNING and find a place where she could heal and sort things out for herself (and possibly our marriage). She found a place to stay for Jan/Feb. Turned out that within a few weeks, the woman she was staying with had some issues with sharing her home... .and it gradually became more stressful and then blew up... .while we were finally doing marriage counseling together. Today she said that she knew she shouldn't have stayed after a while, but wanted to go through the MC with me, so put up with it anyway. (My comment was I'm glad you stayed for MC, but you didn't have to stay in that house.)

She seems back to running again. Reminds me of a time when my family dog got a flea dip that he didn't like the smell of. Tried to run away from his own scent, but if he stopped running, the smell caught up with him... .and he took off again.

Anyhow... .I'm pretty sure that she wasn't able to do the sort of work she would have needed to do to save our marriage while running. However, I have to accept that she made this choice to keep running. She had the option of finding a safe place to stop for a while.

Now the boat is my home. It isn't hers anymore. We both know that, even though the financial division is not yet complete.

I feel like I gave my marriage one last shot (Well... .more than one!), and it is over, except for the negotiation and the paperwork.

... .

Time to pick myself up and start working on boat projects... .and take some breaks to cry when it comes... .and get on with the really tough job of figuring out what I want to create in my life this year and next year.

[patientandclear]

She seems back to running again. Reminds me of a time when my family dog got a flea dip that he didn't like the smell of. Tried to run away from his own scent, but if he stopped running, the smell caught up with him... .and he took off again.

This is so on the money.  Reminds me so so so much of my ex.

Ah, GK.  I think something is going to happen for you that makes you understand in retrospect why it needed to be this way, or why it is good that this resolved now.  Sending you a huge hug.

[Grey Kitty]

Funny... .I'm less surprised by what my wife does these days than I am by how I find myself feeling.

This morning my wife came by to deal with a couple things we didn't get to on Wednesday. Saw her for another couple hours.

Last time I thought I was prepared and thought I'd be fine... .and ended up very emotional and crying a lot, and was still grieving on and off even today. This morning I went in sad and emotional... .and came out feeling more grounded and peaceful. All the logistical stuff went fine.

What was more amazing for me was what my wife said. She was at least as sad as I was, perhaps it was seeing me cry. She was very clear--that she's leaving me because of her issues. She doesn't believe she can put herself first and stay in a marriage/relationship. She also says she isn't leaving me for anybody else... .and wants to be single/separate for a while.

As I said, I'm feeling more peaceful than I expected to. And this probably won't last either! I thought I would feel productive after this, and it isn't happening so much this afternoon.

[Grey Kitty]

It has been almost a week since I saw my wife and she took the last of her things off the boat. Now my boat. (Not legally, but physically)

I've been in a low-grade depression, pretty withdrawn from life not though my computer screen.

I've had a couple logistical email/text exchanges with my wife, with lots of emotional space. I know she went to her dad's place, know what it is usually like there, but haven't heard anything or asked anything about it. Nor do I know when she plans to leave or where she might go next.

I've realized that I *really* need to get back to work on my boat projects soon--I'm in the South, it is now spring instead of winter, and I *really* don't want to be here when it turns into summer. So I need to do work so I'm ready to move on... .and also decide where I want to go next.

Doing that for myself is a BIG thing. New territory for Grey Kitty! And gets me back to the emotional work that all this depression and feelings are pushing me toward. Why I avoid making hard choices and moving forward. Or how to just put a foot forward and make the best of it, even when I don't feel ready or comfortable with it.

Looking at my ring finger, there is still a dent where my wedding ring used to be, and the callus ends right where the ring used to start. I think I'm getting more used to it--both on the physical level and deeper levels. I'll be feeling the gap where my wife used to be in my life for a long time too. Probably the rest of my life.

[Crumbling]

 

Hi!  It's been five days since you posted this.  How are you doing?  Has productivity gone up?   What about where you are going to go, any plans yet?  How's the crying, GK?  I think your emotions are completely normal given your present situation, and I hope you are being good to yourself. (i.e. - 'Start eating proper meals, young man!' says the MamaBear in me.)

Have you been interested in, or even considering perhaps a date with someone new?  Not to start a new relationship, but simply as a way to help you feel desired and maybe even interesting again.

I know you and your wife were together a long time.  When was the last time you were single, GK?  Have you been single for any long length of time in your life?  being a single parent for me was super tough and super stressful, but the year I was single, without kids, was really good.  Something I likely should have held on to longer.  It's good for a person to know they can be alone and still be okay, I think, anyway.

Someone once told me you cannot talk yourself out of feeling depressed, you can only 'act' yourself out of it.  Meaning you need to do things, stay active, keep busy.  Are you riding your bike daily?  I miss bike riding.  I gave it up when we moved to the top of a mountain   Yeah, I'm a wimp that way.  Too many uphill battles. 

, c.