False self

[Depression = 72% of members]

Part of a post by eeks on another thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272335.msg12583429#msg12583429

"I know it hurts like hell to feel used and discarded by the one person you would have done anything for. It's hard not to take the disorder personally... .What we gave to our BPDexes and they discarded were our own "false selves" - how we wish to appear to others, our protective self, what makes us feel special and worthy and lovable. This "false self" is what our BPDex mirrored initially, then threw away (as they eventually throw away all selves they try on). When we get pushed off our pedestal is when we begin to realize that our "false self" is no longer working."

I've been thinking about this very topic lately.

If I could sum up my "false self" in one word it would be "capable" - and all the attendant words that go with it - strong, intelligent, stable, independent, protective. Hell, I was out with friends last night (one of whom was trying to be my "wingman," and he described me as being "cool... .you don't need anyone." It actually bothered me. It's not the way I want to be seen. I'm not that cool. And I do need other people.

I'm very aware that my ex was very "drawn" to my false self - she loved my stability, she (and her family) loved the stability I introduced into her life.  I was able to help her sort out her life, get back on her feet (in the areas she needed to), helped her with her career - all kinds of stuff.  I am very good at the "practical" side of life - an area in which she is sorely lacking.  On the other hand, she is really good at skillfully dealing with people - even difficult people - skills in which I am sorely lacking. For a long time it felt like a "win-win" - we balanced each other's deficiencies.  But, over time (as it always happens), my false self was devalued.

This is what I'm confused about:  my "false self" comes in very handy at times - it's very useful for navigating a complex world.  I can figure things out, pick myself up and dust myself off when necessary - even navigate through a horrendous breakup with an exBPDgf and feel reasonably confident that I'm going to be okay on the other side of it.

But this "self" is "false"?   :)o I deconstruct it to become "whole"?  :)oes this "false self" build a barrier between myself and others (since I'm clearly not putting out the kind of "vibes" I want to?) But what about the benefits of being "capable"?

As you can see, I'm pretty confused.

[jhkbuzz]

Part of a post by eeks on another thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272335.msg12583429#msg12583429

"I know it hurts like hell to feel used and discarded by the one person you would have done anything for. It's hard not to take the disorder personally... .What we gave to our BPDexes and they discarded were our own "false selves" - how we wish to appear to others, our protective self, what makes us feel special and worthy and lovable. This "false self" is what our BPDex mirrored initially, then threw away (as they eventually throw away all selves they try on). When we get pushed off our pedestal is when we begin to realize that our "false self" is no longer working."

I've been thinking about this very topic lately.

If I could sum up my "false self" in one word it would be "capable" - and all the attendant words that go with it - strong, intelligent, stable, independent, protective. Hell, I was out with friends last night (one of whom was trying to be my "wingman," and he described me as being "cool... .you don't need anyone." It actually bothered me. It's not the way I want to be seen. I'm not that cool. And I do need other people.

I'm very aware that my ex was very "drawn" to my false self - she loved my stability, she (and her family) loved the stability I introduced into her life.  I was able to help her sort out her life, get back on her feet (in the areas she needed to), helped her with her career - all kinds of stuff.  I am very good at the "practical" side of life - an area in which she is sorely lacking.  On the other hand, she is really good at skillfully dealing with people - even difficult people - skills in which I am sorely lacking. For a long time it felt like a "win-win" - we balanced each other's deficiencies.  But, over time (as it always happens), my false self was devalued.

This is what I'm confused about:  my "false self" comes in very handy at times - it's very useful for navigating a complex world.  I can figure things out, pick myself up and dust myself off when necessary - even navigate through a horrendous breakup with an exBPDgf and feel reasonably confident that I'm going to be okay on the other side of it.

But this "self" is "false"?   :)o I deconstruct it to become "whole"?  :)oes this "false self" build a barrier between myself and others (since I'm clearly not putting out the kind of "vibes" I want to?) But what about the benefits of being "capable"?

As you can see, I'm pretty confused.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi there, perhaps your false sense is not so much false, but rather a defense mechanism.  Is it difficult for you to accept help from others?  It seems like you have developed a very strong sense of independence, which you use so that you don't "need" anybody's help. 

I can only say this because I myself have similar problems, where I realized a while back that it was very difficult for me to accept assistance, help, advice etc. from others.  I am/was incredibly independent, autonomous, self sufficient.  I have developed this because my family doesn't help me, and if they do, there is always ALWAYS a price to pay.   But my well being comes last in my family.  I also frequently have felt like the only adult, who has to rise above, not retaliate, manage other people's emotions, establish boundaries, etc.  But it also means that I never learned how to feel vulnerable with others, and accept my own limitations, my own needs, which include meaningful and reciprocal relationships.  It is very frightening for me to accept that perhaps there are others who can help me, who know better than I do in certain situations, and to whom I should look for for guidance.  When I met my BPDex, I was soo drawn to help him, I looked up every single possible solution for BPD, for depression, I looked a job opportunities for him, oh how I wanted to just fix his life for him... .and then I realized, I myself was jobless, my past relationships had been very unhealthy, my family dynamics were unhealthy, and so were mine. Taking a step back from trying to help my BPDex was perhaps one of the hardest things I had to do, but I did it. I recently read somewhere, the greatest gift you can give someone is taking a step back and allowing them to learn and look after themselves.  Otherwise you enter an adult-child relationship, which is patronizing to the person who becomes the child.   In the end, I can say he did a great job without me.  He finally got a job in his field (for the first time in his life), he also involved himself in a charity that meant a lot to him, and essentially started to grow himself (I think he may have gone to therapy - but this is still something he gave me very mixed messages on).  I think for those who have always been infantilized, finally treating them like adults is doing them a big favour. For those who have always played the adult role, we need to allow ourselves to look to others for guidance. This is very hard for me.  I still struggle with it.  It's hard for me not to view myself as the independent, strong, stable I-don't-need-anyone woman, and admit I need help from others. For me it is admiting weakness, something I always scoffed at. But I burnt out from having to rely only on myself 100% of the time. There are times where I need help from others.    Anyway, sorry for the long post, hopefully this can give you some insight. 

[jhkbuzz]

Hi there, perhaps your false sense is not so much false, but rather a defense mechanism.  Is it difficult for you to accept help from others?  It seems like you have developed a very strong sense of independence, which you use so that you don't "need" anybody's help. 

I can only say this because I myself have similar problems, where I realized a while back that it was very difficult for me to accept assistance, help, advice etc. from others.  I am/was incredibly independent, autonomous, self sufficient.  I have developed this because my family doesn't help me, and if they do, there is always ALWAYS a price to pay.   But my well being comes last in my family.  I also frequently have felt like the only adult, who has to rise above, not retaliate, manage other people's emotions, establish boundaries, etc.  But it also means that I never learned how to feel vulnerable with others, and accept my own limitations, my own needs, which include meaningful and reciprocal relationships.  It is very frightening for me to accept that perhaps there are others who can help me, who know better than I do in certain situations, and to whom I should look for for guidance.  When I met my BPDex, I was soo drawn to help him, I looked up every single possible solution for BPD, for depression, I looked a job opportunities for him, oh how I wanted to just fix his life for him... .and then I realized, I myself was jobless, my past relationships had been very unhealthy, my family dynamics were unhealthy, and so were mine. Taking a step back from trying to help my BPDex was perhaps one of the hardest things I had to do, but I did it. I recently read somewhere, the greatest gift you can give someone is taking a step back and allowing them to learn and look after themselves.  Otherwise you enter an adult-child relationship, which is patronizing to the person who becomes the child.   In the end, I can say he did a great job without me.  He finally got a job in his field (for the first time in his life), he also involved himself in a charity that meant a lot to him, and essentially started to grow himself (I think he may have gone to therapy - but this is still something he gave me very mixed messages on).  I think for those who have always been infantilized, finally treating them like adults is doing them a big favour. For those who have always played the adult role, we need to allow ourselves to look to others for guidance. This is very hard for me.  I still struggle with it.  It's hard for me not to view myself as the independent, strong, stable I-don't-need-anyone woman, and admit I need help from others. For me it is admiting weakness, something I always scoffed at. But I burnt out from having to rely only on myself 100% of the time. There are times where I need help from others.    Anyway, sorry for the long post, hopefully this can give you some insight. 

Not too long at all... .thank you! 

Lots of similarities between us... .autonomous, self sufficient, independent, no help from family. And "defense mechanism" is probably a pretty accurate description.

It's funny - if you were to ask me if I could accept help from others I would say yes... .but I bet if I watched it actually play itself out in my life I would see a thousand ways in which I don't allow people to help me. Offers of "help" sometimes seem like an insult, ! ("What, you think I can't do it? You think I'm not smart enough to figure it out?" smh

I think the "learning to feel vulnerable with others" is the key - but I don't know how to unlock that door yet. I had an often raging, sometimes on the border of being physically abusive mother - who valued being capable and strong - and I don't know how to "shed" that. I was molested by a family member when I was young as well.  I guess that, at a time when I WAS actually vulnerable (as a child), I learned pretty quickly that being vulnerable sucked and lead to a lot of pain. I'm seeing a T, but this whole topic feels like a dark forest to me - I can't imagine how to navigate through it, or how to change it.

I also definitely "parented" my exBPDgf - I regret this tremendously. I've never been in a caretaking r/s before, and I hope to never get in another.  It surprised me in many ways, and it was a perfect storm - she was looking for a parent (honestly, she was), and I loved being needed and being able to "help" someone I had fallen in love with.  Over time, we both grew to resent the roles we had initially accepted.

[eeks]

That's an insightful quote, but I didn't write it, HappyNihilist did 

[jhkbuzz]

That's an insightful quote, but I didn't write it, HappyNihilist did 

Oops, sorry HappyNihilist!

[Sunfl0wer]

If I could sum up my "false self" in one word it would be "capable" - and all the attendant words that go with it - strong, intelligent, stable, independent, protective.

... .you don't need anyone."

I'm very aware that my ex was very "drawn" to my false self - she loved my stability, she (and her family) loved the stability I introduced into her life.  I was able to help her sort out her life, get back on her feet (in the areas she needed to), helped her with her career - all kinds of stuff.

I completely relate to all of this!  This is exactly what others are drawn to in me.  They think I'm capable, don't need anyone, and that I can figure it all out on my own.

I don't think this is a false self for me but rather just one side of my true self.  I AM: confident, intelligent, independent, capable and more.  However, I am also: vulnerable, needing of support, needing of more knowledge and more.

I do not feel the need to deconstruct.

I DO see the need to ensure balance for the purpose of being truly intimate vs protection.

So depending on who I am dealing with, they initially get to experience the side of me with less vulnerabilities.  As the relationship progresses, intimacy ensues, I try to open up the more vulnerable side.

I think this is different than what my uBPD exbf did in the first year.  He reflected my self back to me.  He did not show me his own traits, but showed the traits that he thought would get me to be drawn to him.

Showing people one facet of your persona is different than wearing a mask over a ghost face.

[jhkbuzz]

If I could sum up my "false self" in one word it would be "capable" - and all the attendant words that go with it - strong, intelligent, stable, independent, protective.

... .you don't need anyone."

I'm very aware that my ex was very "drawn" to my false self - she loved my stability, she (and her family) loved the stability I introduced into her life.  I was able to help her sort out her life, get back on her feet (in the areas she needed to), helped her with her career - all kinds of stuff.

I completely relate to all of this!  This is exactly what others are drawn to in me.  They think I'm capable, don't need anyone, and that I can figure it all out on my own.

I don't think this is a false self for me but rather just one side of my true self.  I AM: confident, intelligent, independent, capable and more.  However, I am also: vulnerable, needing of support, needing of more knowledge and more.

I do not feel the need to deconstruct.

I DO see the need to ensure balance for the purpose of being truly intimate vs protection.

So depending on who I am dealing with, they initially get to experience the side of me with less vulnerabilities.  As the relationship progresses, intimacy ensues, I try to open up the more vulnerable side.

I think this is different than what my uBPD exbf did in the first year.  He reflected my self back to me.  He did not show me his own traits, but showed the traits that he thought would get me to be drawn to him.

Showing people one facet of your persona is different than wearing a mask over a ghost face.

I get confused by this too... .my ex idealized me, loved my strength and "capableness" - is that what you mean by "reflected back"? That she valued the things in me that I clearly valued in myself - whether this was my "false self" or what you termed the "one side of my true self"?

Because what I valued in her was her vulnerability - the very thing I feel is lacking in myself.

[Sunfl0wer]

I've only recently joined this site and am still learning, so I may be using terminology wrong but I'm not sure.

I'll explain what I meant tho.

loved my strength and "capableness" - is that what you mean by "reflected back"?

Yes, he loved all the things about me that I love.  I think anyone would admire another person's positive qualities. 

However, where he took it too far, and put on a mask, is when we had minor disagreements or decisions to make.  If I had a different opinion than his, he would hear my opinion and then change his mind as though it was originally a misunderstanding, or that he hadn't thought of it quite that way, or that he appreciated this difference.  Sometimes he even wanted to hear my thoughts first and I caught on to this and tried to teach him that it was ok to have his own opinions on what we should do or plan.  Don't get me wrong, he sometimes was in the mood for example, to eat Italian all on his own. However, in the first year, 75% of the time he really struggled to have his own thoughts and ideas on making decisions both big and small.

The mask, was discovered later on in future disagreements where he then threw it in my face that "I always got my way!"  I had no idea!  I thought that we were compromising and listening to each other the way healthy couples do.  That is exactly what it looked like!  Instead, he was actually replacing his thoughts with mine when deciding things.  Sometimes he did not have his own thoughts.  Sometimes his opinion on a topic was obviously someone else's line of thinking and "borrowed" thoughts.

Also something that really caused huge arguments... .

If he talked out a decision with his exwife, he would acquire her thought process and decide in her favor.  If he talked to me about the same topic and I would bring up new factors to consider, he then would favor me.  Then he would continue emailing her, to explain, but would flop back to siding with her.  It could go on forever.  It really stressed him out.  Whoever he was in front of, he was such a people pleaser, without his own sense of self, that he would just agree to anything that appeared somewhat reasonable and he would forget the previous things that were considered.  He literally could not contain ideas from several different sources and merge them to form his own ideas.  Once a friend convinced him to stay overnight, looking back he admitted it was a bad idea, but when he is out with friends and if the friend is manipulative, he often just goes along with things and acts/feels as though he doesn't mind. 

In the first year he acted as though to have a minor disagreement with me would be a major crisis and he would freak out, leave and go home until his emotions settled.

In the beginning he resolved this conflict within himself by just agreeing with me or appearing to have similar ideas regarding things.

He could not keep this up and eventually he had his own opinions, or rather stole his exwife's or D opinions and pretended they were his and instead of being able to handle differences, it would be a big conflict for him.  It still causes him to run circles in an argument with me to try to change my opinion to his.

[apollotech]

(What follows assumes that the Non did not intentionally display their character/self in a deceitful manner.)

I wholly disagree with the notion that our respective BPD partners mirrored and discarded our false self. My BPDexgf didn't discard any part of my self, she never had access to any part of my self. As any T will tell you, all self change(s) is/are internal. She didn't mirror a "false" self; she reflected a "false" self. The image in the mirror is not me; it is an image of me and, therefore, false. Reflecting is entirely a property (act) of the mirror.

We were fooled into believing that it was their true self that we were seeing/experiencing in the initial stage of the relationship. Only later were we allowed to see/experience their true self.

[HappyNihilist]

This is what I'm confused about:  my "false self" comes in very handy at times - it's very useful for navigating a complex world.  I can figure things out, pick myself up and dust myself off when necessary - even navigate through a horrendous breakup with an exBPDgf and feel reasonably confident that I'm going to be okay on the other side of it.

Your resiliency, intelligence, and logic are part of who you are, core traits. They provide a foundation for your "false self" - which is more about the manifestations of these traits to the world, and in relationships.

We all have different facets of ourselves that we show to different groups of people. It's self-protection as well as adapting to society, community, and different situations. As long as all of our facets are authentic reflections of our core values and needs, we can be healthy and happy.

Often, though, we have parts that don't necessarily reflect this... .familiar patterns that maybe aren't the healthiest for us personally... .sometimes we're not even entirely sure what we need or value. Not because we're not whole people underneath, but because we've not taken the time and effort to explore ourselves. Maybe we've been getting along just fine. Maybe we haven't, but we still haven't delved deeply enough into ourselves to change it.

Being people who have a core Self (unlike a borderline), our "false selves" are less like masks put on to hide blank faces and more like armor/weapons that protect our inner selves. They're tied to who we are and who we want to be. There are good, healthy parts there that we should keep and build on - and there are parts that don't serve us well, and in fact prevent us from living authentically. Part of the rebuilding process is deciding which parts to keep and which to discard, in favor of realizing who we really are and living in such a way to honor that.

Your "false self" is individual to you - a complex narrative constructed since your earliest experiences. But for people who get involved with borderlines, they're usually along the thematic lines of rescuer/fixer, understanding-driven, or narcissistic. It's very possible this particular "false self" hasn't popped up in such full force since its initial creation, way back in childhood -- borderlines are really the perfect partners to bring them out. A relationship with a self-disordered person forces this deconstruction. That's both the reason for the sheer ego- and soul-shattering devastation, and the gift of these relationships.

How do you know what your own "false self" is? Your BPD relationship will show you.

A borderline partner mirrors an idealized version of this "false self" in the early stages of the relationship. (Along with the love-bombing and other BPD methods of ensuring a fast bond.) And then, when that "false self" is devalued and discarded by the borderline - and you realize that what's always worked for you in the past is no longer working - you are eventually stripped of this protective self.

Look at what you were shown, in its fullest glory, in the beginning. Look at what stopped working for you. Look at who you were when you were at your most stripped and vulnerable. The answers to who you are lie there.

And I say all this as someone who's right in that boat with you. I'm still finding my own answers, digging through my own debris, and trying to put myself back together. Sometimes I feel like I'll never get there. But all I can do is keep digging and trying.

[Perfidy]

Show me this" I " that you speak of.

[Perfidy]

This "I" can't be found. It doesn't exist in the realm of form and therefor has no relevance in material things. When these paradoxes emerge, deeper understanding follows.

[raisins3142]

This "I" can't be found. It doesn't exist in the realm of form and therefor has no relevance in material things. When these paradoxes emerge, deeper understanding follows.

Cogito ergo sum.

-Descartes

That something is experiencing something is the most sure thing I have.

[jhkbuzz]

Thank you happynihilist  

A borderline partner mirrors an idealized version of this "false self" in the early stages of the relationship. (Along with the love-bombing and other BPD methods of ensuring a fast bond.) And then, when that "false self" is devalued and discarded by the borderline - and you realize that what's always worked for you in the past is no longer working - you are eventually stripped of this protective self.

Look at what you were shown, in its fullest glory, in the beginning. Look at what stopped working for you. Look at who you were when you were at your most stripped and vulnerable. The answers to who you are lie there.

I think I know - it's that I'm understanding driven and a "fixer" (not so much a rescuer) - I'm more intellectually driven and I can analyze and "fix" life problems - which often comes in handy.

But I think I get confused when I think this works on people - because it certainly doesn't work on other people's emotions, and that's how I think it developed. I spent a ton of time and energy in my childhood trying to understand my often volatile mother, and "fix" situations so she wouldn't be so angry.  This was actually pure survival and to avoid being hit - but it was also because I loved her and I just wanted her to be happy. It didn't work, of course - I still got hit, and she still tends to be an angry person.

In the beginning of my r/s I felt like I understood my ex very, very well. And she appreciated my ability to analyze and deal with complex life problems -  indeed, my ability in this area helped improve her life in many ways (I say this without arrogance). But over time we had a lot of parenting disagreements which made us both unhappy - and it triggered her acting out. When I found out about the first infidelity (not a full blown affair, but still devastating) I thought I could fix it - I remember thinking this very clearly.  She was angry (although never raging, often under-the-radar angry) - and I dove in thinking I could understand and fix it.

I actually remember thinking "Oh, I know how to do this - I've watched my father do it a million times with my mother."  In other words, "I know how to deal with this angry person - to understand them and "fix" the situation to assuage their anger so that life returns to normal."

And it worked for him, somehow - they've been married for 60 years. I tried it with my mom but it didn't work as well for me.  And it didn't work at all in my last r/s.

So... .moving forward... .I just watch out for my tendency to get "sucked into" these kinds of situations, remembering that it's not my responsibility to "manage" other people's emotions?

It feels like there's more to it than that, though... .like there's more bubbling under the surface that I can't quite get to.

[raisins3142]

Pigbacking off jhkbuzz's reflection on:

"Look at what you were shown, in its fullest glory, in the beginning. Look at what stopped working for you. Look at who you were when you were at your most stripped and vulnerable. The answers to who you are lie there."

I met my uBPDexgf in a social situation.  She said that she admired how at ease I was around other people, even total strangers, and how I could relate to others and that she wanted to be more like that. (mirroring alert!)

However, she couldn't pull it off because you just can't become that.

How she tried to mirror this and show me that she could do this (and how she was likely social in the past) bit the relationship in the butt and this is how:

When we were around others she would drink and then obnoxiously dominate the conversation by talking about semi-embarrassing things that no one really cares about, and then ignoring me.  She had to cut me out so that she could be the popular one that came off as so breezy.  And she did this to men that she could manipulate into paying her attention via their gonads.  And she would go off by herself and talk to complete strangers at length while drinking... .and guess who she chose to approach or welcome the approach of... .drum roll please... .single men that had a big, obvious reason to want to talk to a relatively attractive, half drunk girl.  The way she did this actually made swingers approach me for group sex (I turned it down obviously) because it seemed she was going off to find someone for us (from my limited knowledge of this, the attractive woman in the pair is less threatening and more inviting and so is the "bait" for swingers, somewhat).

So, thanks for spurring the insight, so gross to me now. 

[raisins3142]

PS This also had the added benefit of stoking her ego via male validation.  Win-win, right?