Should I forgive him?

[Unducky]

I left my BPD partner about 7 months ago and struggled with anger, fear, and depression, among other things. I'm still dealing with some anxiety, but overall have managed to reach a place of reconciliation. 

I still feel some anger and sadness that because of the trauma he went through, he wasn't able to treat me lovingly even though I believe now that he wanted to, and also that I became so emotionally invested in a person who didn't treat me well and I wasn't taking good care of myself.  But the anger is no longer directed at him or myself, just at the situation.  I've learned and grown from it and gotten to a place where I know with confidence that I will never get back together with him, and I've forgiven myself.  I've also forgiven him.

I wasn't planning on telling him that I forgive him, it was just a change of heart that I needed for my own peace.  But I started thinking about the word and how it doesn't seem to be meant for keeping to yourself, but rather for giving.

My ex has been in rigorous therapy since our break up and even though we work in the same building, he has been extremely respectful in giving me space.  We exchanged a few letters in the first 2 months, and since have been completely no contact.  On my end, it was partly for my own sake - I wasn't in a place where I could have handled talking to him - and partly because I didn't want to interfere with his healing process.  I guess I'm still afraid of hurting him.

I know this site is very pro-no contact, but my question is if I let him know that even though I don't feel we can ever be together again (he already knows I feel that way) I forgive him, would it help him or hurt him?  On the one hand, I don't want to interfere with his healing process or give him false hope of getting back together or think that the way he treated me was excusable.  But on the other hand, I think of his insecurities and his fear of any kind of relationships, and I wonder if knowing that someone he has hurt does not blame him or hate him or think he is a bad person could give him any confidence or hope in his healing and doing better in the future.

Maybe that's my nurturer personality interfering or trying to make up for not being able to give him the right kind of support during the relationship.  But I really am not trying to stir things up or make him feel conflicted.  I just feel like forgiveness is the last thing I have to offer him, and if it could help him, I want him to know.

[tjay933]

do you feel that forgiving him would help you? is this part of your recovery?

[Unducky]

Good point, TJay... .I think it probably is.  But if I knew it would mess him up at all, then it wouldn't do me any good either.

[tjay933]

can't tell you if it would mess him up but I know that it would definetly mess my BPD up-he lives in hope that everything will go back to "normal" and that we will be a "happy family" "again". does yours hold any hope even if not spoken that you will get back together? if so, he may think your forgiving him is an in for him to come back and when he actually figures out it isn't may make him madder than all else. maybe someone else can confirm if they find their BPD would act that way or not. mine would say I'm giving mixed signals.

[Unducky]

Thanks again!  That's a helpful perspective.  I have no idea where he is emotionally right now, and although some of his friends have told me that he's okay, I don't really want to pry further and get them in the middle of things. 

I know that if I had hurt someone I cared about, their forgiveness would really mean a lot to me even if it didn't result in anything.  But I also know that he operates very differently than me, in ways I don't always understand.  So maybe it's best to leave it alone.

[rlhmm]

Thanks again!  That's a helpful perspective.  I have no idea where he is emotionally right now, and although some of his friends have told me that he's okay, I don't really want to pry further and get them in the middle of things. 

I know that if I had hurt someone I cared about, their forgiveness would really mean a lot to me even if it didn't result in anything.  But I also know that he operates very differently than me, in ways I don't always understand.  So maybe it's best to leave it alone.

i think thats a wise decision. quietly forgive him for yourself and "let it be".   

[patientandclear]

If I told my ex I forgave him, he would be pissed off, because he would find it presumptuous or arrogant that I believe he did anything I would need to forgive him for.

We feel so magnanimous and that comes across, but it aggravates someone whose framework on what happened is that he is working on forgiving you.  Does that make sense?

Maybe this does not apply to your ex, but I know for sure that mine would regard my forgiveness as a cat turd.

[sun seeker]

 Hi all

With my dexBPDgf forgivenes for her came in due time with in myself.  Telling her i forgive her gave my ex validation that I still want her back (I most certainly do not) and triggered a recycle attemp that was rejected by me . Then a rage  cycle. My opion stay n/c. Ask your self what good is going to come from contacting him. You matter now (feels dam good) worry about healing yourself. Hope it all works out for you.

[Unducky]

Thanks so much, all of you!  I needed some sort of affirmation in one direction or the other - even though I've learned so much about how BPDs behave, I still understand so little about how he thinks and feels - and hearing your experiences and thoughts was really helpful.

[Ripped Heart]

My ex has been in rigorous therapy since our break up and even though we work in the same building, he has been extremely respectful in giving me space.  We exchanged a few letters in the first 2 months, and since have been completely no contact.  On my end, it was partly for my own sake - I wasn't in a place where I could have handled talking to him - and partly because I didn't want to interfere with his healing process.  I guess I'm still afraid of hurting him.

I know this site is very pro-no contact, but my question is if I let him know that even though I don't feel we can ever be together again (he already knows I feel that way) I forgive him, would it help him or hurt him?  On the one hand, I don't want to interfere with his healing process or give him false hope of getting back together or think that the way he treated me was excusable.  But on the other hand, I think of his insecurities and his fear of any kind of relationships, and I wonder if knowing that someone he has hurt does not blame him or hate him or think he is a bad person could give him any confidence or hope in his healing and doing better in the future.

Maybe that's my nurturer personality interfering or trying to make up for not being able to give him the right kind of support during the relationship.  But I really am not trying to stir things up or make him feel conflicted.  I just feel like forgiveness is the last thing I have to offer him, and if it could help him, I want him to know.

Hi unducky,

I really liked reading your post as you seem to have a firm grasp on who you are as a person though there were a couple of comments you made that I want to try and discuss some more with you. Part of the reason being, I've been sat in a very similar position to you in terms of how you view things and through therapy, the wonderful people on this site and through my own personal development discovered some alarming things about myself.

First and foremost, the one point I want to address is about the site being pro-non contact   I can definitely understand where this statement comes from as you look in most posts across the board and people are advising no contact here, people also posting about how they have broken No contact or that their ex has been in contact with them and they don't know what to do next.

However, No contact is a life choice and not a rule, it's dependent on the indiviual and the stage of their healing rather than being told that is what you must do. Just like you may see posts on here where people may advise how to respond if there is limited contact such as in a co-parenting environment.

The reason behind no contact is to allow us the space to heal and for our own well being without being drawn into the FOG or becoming enmeshed in our ex partners issues. Why? Because we are all responsible for our own behaviours and the more time you invest in someone elses, the less time you have to work on your own. No Contact is also a way of moving forward without being triggered around certain events relating to our ex-partners too. Again, you will see many posts on here where people have been healing nicely, looked at their ex's facebook page and seen how happy they are with a replacement and suddenly feel they are back at the beginning again.

Whether you choose to go No Contact, Limited Contact or have a big hand in your ex partners life following a split is entirely down to you. The advice and support you receive from members on the site will be based around your choices and also the situation you find yourself in at the time. My exN/BPDw for example, I've been NC for 3 years now and have no intention of ever breaking that because I know her ultimate goal is based around destruction. my exBPDgf however, I did go NC for 2 weeks before she reached out and I responded back. I'm in a much better place myself in terms of exBPDgf that I can maintain limited contact without feeling triggered by her or without being drawn back into the situations I've moved past. In order to get there though I did use NC but it's a tool that is there for us as and when we need it rather than being used as a tool for punishment against out ex partners  

You made a comment about being afraid of hurting your ex. First question I have around this is what are you afraid of in terms of outcome? Second question is rather than thinking about how it affects them, how does it make you feel?

This is an area I've done a lot of work on with my Therapist because even in situations where I was being verbally, emotionally and physically abused by my exN/BPDw, my continual focus was around NOT wanting to upset or hurt her. Yet I found it perfectly normal to take the abuse on a daily basis as long as I didn't hurt my ex. At no point did I ever consider my own well being or to a point, my own safety and that can be equally as damaging.

As compassionate people, we don't want to see people hurting or suffering, most of all it's torture to us if we for one minute believe that we are the cause of their suffering but there are a few things missing from this picture. My T came out with a saying recently that clicked with me as a rescuer/nurturer "If you can't take care of yourself, how can you expect to take care of others" Initially it caught me a little off guard. I have my own house, a car, a great job, financially stable and no debts. My bills are paid on time, I go to the gym, rarely drink (but do smoke), I eat healthy, I'm clean and my house is tidy. So in that sense, I do take care of myself so was lost at the question. My T agreed that all of those things are a sign of someone taking care of themselves from an external and healthy point of view and then asked why I was there. Emotional health is the one we miss the most, just because we take care of ourselves in all other areas, doesn't mean we take care of ourselves emotionally and in the role of a rescuer, you tend to neglect your own emotional health for that of the other person. But if you aren't emotionally healthy in yourself and taking care of that side, how can you be expected to help someone else who is in emotional distress?

Right now, from your post you are very conflicted between your own emotional needs and those of your ex partner. It seems like you have an emotional battle going on right now where you are wanting to take care of yourself emotionally but at the same time perhaps feel guilty towards the fact this may conflict with your ex's needs right now to a point where you are considering forgoing your own needs for those of someone else. The worst part I found with being in that position is that it's like an automatic response, we jump in before we even have time to process what is going on. Basically I used to find my mind would focus on the detail rather than the whole situation and not give myself time to think. If I did nothing, it could be the end of the world for this person so I have to do something to save them, if I don't then they may hate me and I don't want to be the cause of their pain. It's a vicious cycle that we have to break somewhere and that's what I've been working through these past couple of months.

The flip side is that we can go to the other end of the scale and switch off completely which is equally as scary so the trick is to find the balance. Look at the situation and see how it makes you feel. If you are comfortable, have the time to help and WANT to help, then you can do just that. If your sole purpose is to help to alleviate your own feelings of guilt or having the guilt placed on you if you don't, then that's when you take the step back and assess how damaging it could be to you.

My T once described me as the sort of person who would see a lion in distress and go over to help it. I focused on the distress rather than the fact it was a man eating beast that could cause me serious damage. So I go over, try and help the lion and get mauled just managing to escape with my life. Not the lions fault because it's only doing what nature designed it to do. So walking on, see a 2nd cage with a lion in distress and step straight in and do exactly the same thing again. The question my T asked is "How many cages will it take before I actually understand that it is a LION in distress" The purpose is to stop and examine the bigger picture, to take a step back from the situation and assess. I can understand it's a lion in distress and I still really want to help it BUT now I see the lion, I can determine that it isn't safe for me to step in and help it, but at the same time, I don't want to walk away so why not call one of the park staff and let them know. I've still shown compassion and a desire to help, found a practical solution around that and managed to help WITHOUT putting myself in jeopardy by raising awareness to someone who can make a difference.

You should never stop being who you are and I learned a great lesson from Grey Kitty the other day which kind of ties in around the lion analogy. Don't stop being who you are, just learn how to protect yourself first. You can still be a rescuer or a nurturer as they are great qualities to have, but by knowing your boundaries and protecting yourself first you may find your approach to a problem changes somewhat, where you may have rushed in once before you may have a more logical approach that allows you to find another solution without putting yourself at risk.

In your situation and wanting to tell your ex about his treatment towards you but fearing that you could hurt him if you do you find yourself in a situation similar to Shrodingers cat. In the sense that right now, with NC in place and your feelings, you cannot tell if your ex doesn't mind or if he blames you so at this point in time both of those are true. Could part of your reason for telling him be that you want to know where it is you stand? Whether he is still resentful towards you or if he has moved past that?

So if you take your situation a step further and proverbially poke the bear and say something that comes back at you as having hurt him. Ultimately how is that going to make you feel and what would be your next course of action? Also, if he didn't care that his treatment of you was inexcusable, would that then trigger a reaction in yourself if he wasn't to take responsibility for his actions towards you?

My advice around this, if you are really struggling to let go of this, would be to write your letter and get everything out and down on paper. If you have a close friend or support network, or even someone on here, share that letter with them and let them read it instead. You are far more likely to find closure that way because whoever you get to read it is far more likely to validate how you are feeling than you may get from your ex. It's amazing how effective writing that letter actually is. I wrote one about my mother and gave that to my T, it lifted 30+ years of hurt, frustration, anger and pain that I had been carrying and as a result has actually strengthened my relationship with my mother because I don't hold any of that emotion and the things that go on now, don't add to what was already there, i can now deal with each situation as it arises. It's well worth the time, especially if you have someone close that you can share what you need to get off your chest. Regardless of who you give the letter to, you write it as though you are writing to your ex and other members on here who have done similar, I'm sure they will testify to how effective it can actually be. Plus you don't have the added fear of whether you will hurt your ex by saying what you need to. Remember, this is about your healing and letting go of the emotional baggage you are holding on to. It would be great to hand it back to our pwBPD at times but taking that step back, sometimes you have to understand that the reality is you may not get the response you want to hear if you did do that and it causes you more pain instead.  

[HappyNihilist]

 Hi there, Unducky! I'm sorry you've been struggling with the painful, confusing aftermath of a disordered relationship.   

Thanks again!  That's a helpful perspective.  I have no idea where he is emotionally right now, and although some of his friends have told me that he's okay, I don't really want to pry further and get them in the middle of things. 

I know that if I had hurt someone I cared about, their forgiveness would really mean a lot to me even if it didn't result in anything.  But I also know that he operates very differently than me, in ways I don't always understand.  So maybe it's best to leave it alone.

i think thats a wise decision. quietly forgive him for yourself and "let it be".   

I agree. 

Use this as an opportunity to refocus on yourself and your needs, rather than your ex's. Forgive him if that's what you feel, but do it for yourself and your healing. 

If I told my ex I forgave him, he would be pissed off, because he would find it presumptuous or arrogant that I believe he did anything I would need to forgive him for.

We feel so magnanimous and that comes across, but it aggravates someone whose framework on what happened is that he is working on forgiving you.  Does that make sense?

My exBPDbf would react the same way if I told him I forgave him. Remember, BPD is very much a persecution-based disorder, with the borderline always winding up the victim (in their minds).

I've been in contact with my ex several times since the breakup. Early on, instead of saying I forgave him (he never apologized, for one thing), I thanked him for being an important part of my life. He took that well, and it eased a lot of my own confused needs and worries in the aftermath.

However, No contact is a life choice and not a rule, it's dependent on the indiviual and the stage of their healing rather than being told that is what you must do. Just like you may see posts on here where people may advise how to respond if there is limited contact such as in a co-parenting environment.

The reason behind no contact is to allow us the space to heal and for our own well being without being drawn into the FOG or becoming enmeshed in our ex partners issues. Why? Because we are all responsible for our own behaviours and the more time you invest in someone elses, the less time you have to work on your own.

This.

If you feel that NC isn't the way for you, then there's nothing wrong with that. The important thing is that you make choices based on your own well-being first and foremost.

You made a comment about being afraid of hurting your ex. First question I have around this is what are you afraid of in terms of outcome? Second question is rather than thinking about how it affects them, how does it make you feel?

This is an area I've done a lot of work on with my Therapist because even in situations where I was being verbally, emotionally and physically abused by my exN/BPDw, my continual focus was around NOT wanting to upset or hurt her. Yet I found it perfectly normal to take the abuse on a daily basis as long as I didn't hurt my ex. At no point did I ever consider my own well being or to a point, my own safety and that can be equally as damaging.

I struggled with the same thing, Ripped Heart and Unducky. My focus was always on what I could do to not upset or hurt my ex, even at the expense of my own well-being and safety. This is a very, very deep-seated issue that, while a theme throughout my life, never reached the fever-pitch intensity it did with my exbf. (Borderlines are perfect for drawing such things out.)

Your well-being and happiness is vitally important. Turn that compassion and kindness onto yourself. 

You should never stop being who you are and I learned a great lesson from Grey Kitty the other day which kind of ties in around the lion analogy. Don't stop being who you are, just learn how to protect yourself first. You can still be a rescuer or a nurturer as they are great qualities to have, but by knowing your boundaries and protecting yourself first you may find your approach to a problem changes somewhat, where you may have rushed in once before you may have a more logical approach that allows you to find another solution without putting yourself at risk.

[Unducky]

Wow, RippedHeart and HappyNihilist, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom and support.

I'm naturally one of those lion rescuers myself, although I did get better at boundary-setting and self-care during the course of the relationship and even more since I've been out of it.  But I still have a long way to go.

Your questions and thoughts got me thinking more deeply about why I wanted to forgive him.  Even though I've gotten myself to a much better place, I still have some anxiety that's tied up in how he feels.  Because we work in the same building, I can't completely remove myself from his life, which affects me (sometimes missing him and other times getting triggered just that he's in my space - but less now than before) and also makes me very conscious that it affects him and that I don't know in what ways.

Like I said, he's been very respectful of keeping NC, and I am generally able to avoid running into him.  When I do, I make eye contact and say hi because when we were together he made a point of how strongly it hurt him when people ignored him, and like you said, the NC is for healing, not punishing.  But I'm sure he's also aware of me avoiding him or sees me happy at my job, and I do get worried about where he perceives I might be emotionally since he doesn't actually know.  And I spin my wheels a lot wondering where he is in all of this too.

I guess my wanting to forgive him comes from both myself wanting a sense of closure instead of all this speculation, but also still coming from my concern for him and still wanting to help him in any way I can without getting back together with him or getting hurt myself.

HappyNihilist, I like how you thanked your ex for being part of your life rather than forgiving them.  I also really love your Velveteen Rabbit quote!

And RippedHeart, I like your idea of writing the letter but showing it to someone else.  I write letters to him in my journal often, and it's very therapeutic, but I've never actually shown them to anyone.

Thanks again, all of you, for helping me figure out what I was trying to get out of this.  I'll continue to reflect on it and try to find a way to meet what it is I'm needing (not what he might need).

[HappyNihilist]

 

I'm naturally one of those lion rescuers myself, although I did get better at boundary-setting and self-care during the course of the relationship and even more since I've been out of it.  But I still have a long way to go.

Oh, I have a long way to go, too... .but that's ok. I may be trudging uphill in a snowstorm, but I'm singing while I do it. (Mostly singing. Sometimes swearing, a lot.)

These relationships really help show us how we need to take care of ourselves. Turn your lion rescuer heart towards yourself. You deserve your compassion, strength, understanding, and protection.

Last week I was on planes quite a bit for business travel, and I had to smile at the flight attendant safety briefing - "put your own oxygen mask on first before helping anyone else." That's really such a basic human truth, that we too often overlook. Take care of yourself first.

Your questions and thoughts got me thinking more deeply about why I wanted to forgive him. 

Good! You're doing great work here.

Even though I've gotten myself to a much better place, I still have some anxiety that's tied up in how he feels.

That's completely understandable. It takes a while. Don't feel like it's a setback or a bad thing that you still have this anxiety. Just keep doing what you're doing, and probe into those feelings to learn what they're telling you.

Because we work in the same building, I can't completely remove myself from his life, which affects me (sometimes missing him and other times getting triggered just that he's in my space - but less now than before) and also makes me very conscious that it affects him and that I don't know in what ways.

Like I said, he's been very respectful of keeping NC, and I am generally able to avoid running into him.  When I do, I make eye contact and say hi because when we were together he made a point of how strongly it hurt him when people ignored him, and like you said, the NC is for healing, not punishing.  But I'm sure he's also aware of me avoiding him or sees me happy at my job, and I do get worried about where he perceives I might be emotionally since he doesn't actually know.  And I spin my wheels a lot wondering where he is in all of this too.

First of all, I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be to work in the same building... .it sounds like you're handling this with absolute grace, and you have both my sympathy and my admiration.

You sound very understanding-driven. A lot of people who get involved with borderlines are compassionate, passionate, and understanding-seeking. It's natural that you want to solve the mystery of your ex - the disordered mind doesn't make sense to us, and we desperately want things to make sense, especially our relationships. Plus, I'm sure you spent much of the relationship trying to figure him out, especially in a (fruitless) effort to make him happy and avoid hurting him. You're conditioned to be hyper-vigilant about his emotions and mindset, and it takes a while to get over that.

I recommend reading the posts of member 2010 (link here). She has many great posts on the understanding-driven partner of the borderline, as well as on BPD and disordered relationships in general.

I guess my wanting to forgive him comes from both myself wanting a sense of closure instead of all this speculation, but also still coming from my concern for him and still wanting to help him in any way I can without getting back together with him or getting hurt myself.

Again, this is completely understandable. This is someone you loved and cared for deeply - and probably still do - and it's only natural to feel concern. But right now you deserve the full focus of your concern.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things in your interactions at work, honestly. I wouldn't worry about any of your actions hurting him, and the best thing you can do to help him right now is to give him that space.

So my advice would be... .keep doing what you're doing at work, and keep turning your focus inwards. 

HappyNihilist, I like how you thanked your ex for being part of your life rather than forgiving them.  I also really love your Velveteen Rabbit quote!

Thank you! I love that book, and particularly that quote, so much.

You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in your joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.

I feel that some of life's most profound philosophy can be found in children's books. Look at A.A. Milne's Pooh books, E.B. White's Charlotte's Web, Shel Silverstein, and so on. I actually went back and reread a lot of children's classics after my breakup... .it was soothing on many levels.

I'll continue to reflect on it and try to find a way to meet what it is I'm needing (not what he might need).

This is a huge step towards healing. It's not an overnight process, but I promise you will get there if you continue to reflect on and question yourself (while being forgiving and accepting of yourself).

You're doing well, grasshopper.   

[Ripped Heart]

Wow, RippedHeart and HappyNihilist, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom and support.

I'm naturally one of those lion rescuers myself, although I did get better at boundary-setting and self-care during the course of the relationship and even more since I've been out of it.  But I still have a long way to go.

It's a learning process and you aren't alone   We learn by doing and every now and again we do come across something that tests our boundaries and resolve. Sometimes we drop them, other times we stand firm but as long as we learn from the lessons it brings, we will always keep moving forward.

Your questions and thoughts got me thinking more deeply about why I wanted to forgive him.  Even though I've gotten myself to a much better place, I still have some anxiety that's tied up in how he feels.  Because we work in the same building, I can't completely remove myself from his life, which affects me (sometimes missing him and other times getting triggered just that he's in my space - but less now than before) and also makes me very conscious that it affects him and that I don't know in what ways.

Like I said, he's been very respectful of keeping NC, and I am generally able to avoid running into him.  When I do, I make eye contact and say hi because when we were together he made a point of how strongly it hurt him when people ignored him, and like you said, the NC is for healing, not punishing.  But I'm sure he's also aware of me avoiding him or sees me happy at my job, and I do get worried about where he perceives I might be emotionally since he doesn't actually know.  And I spin my wheels a lot wondering where he is in all of this too.

This is why I asked those questions in my post and I think this is an outstanding response  With my exBPDgf, as time went on, she presented herself as someone who couldn't take care of herself, needed constant reassurance and attention, someone to take care of her bills because she was a financial mess and such forth. When I look back now, it was at that point I moved from being the partner to being the parent. The anxiety I felt and the worry was similar to if it had been one of my children.

It's very difficult to stop thinking about the other person, especially when you know they have an illness, know they can go off the rails and that you care enough that you don't want to see any harm come of them. My biggest battle was around letting go and when I broke it down it was down to fear of letting go of hope. The fear that I would walk away the day before she came forward and said was going to get help and that we would live happily ever after. That's what kept me in the cycle because I went above and beyond my limitations but still held on to the tiniest scrap of hope and it wasn't until i was able to remove myself from that, that I could finally let go.

Letting go, doesn't mean they aren't in your life, it doesn't mean you never see them again or interact with them again. It means that you can finally detach from that person and be in complete control of yourself. It means they are no longer associated with those feelings of anxiety or worry unless you allow them or want them to be. It's all about being in control of your own feelings and emotions without allowing someone else to control (consciously or subconsciously) how you feel.

As I mentioned before, my exBPDgf still contacts me and it's usually because she has a crisis going on, never just to say hello. So when she does text, I choose whether it's a good time to respond back, if it's not I keep my focus on what I'm doing and reply to her when I'm ready to. When I do and she tells me about her latest crisis, I talk through it with her, validate how she feels but I don't allow myself to become emotionally involved with what is going on in her life. She gets what she needs from me and disappears until the next time and I'm not left feeling triggered or feeling the urge to step in and solve her problems. I'm in a place I can do that with her and also be mindful if she starts to creep over that boundary but it has taken a lot of work to get there. If she were to cut all contact tomorrow and never resurface again, I would miss her but I wouldn't allow it to rule my life. I miss what we had and the memories we shared and I do care about her but now I care about her enough to let her make her own decisions, whether I agree with them or not because she is no longer that part of my life. She will make her own decisions, she will succeed at times and fail at others, just like we all do but they are her choices to make now and she will do whatever she has to survive.

I guess my wanting to forgive him comes from both myself wanting a sense of closure instead of all this speculation, but also still coming from my concern for him and still wanting to help him in any way I can without getting back together with him or getting hurt myself.

For many people on this site, they never get the chance of closure. Sometimes they get an opportunity and don't get the response they hoped for. Forgiveness comes from within and you can choose to forgive without that person hearing or seeing it. We are here because we made the choice to help ourselves and not because someone told us we needed to be here. Just as our pwBPD has that choice of help too, but it has to be their choice as we cannot control other people. I thought I would never get closure from exN/BPDw simply because she could not recognise her own issues, that was part of her illness. There is no way I could tell her I forgive her for the abuse because in her mind, I deserved it for angering her. Right to the very end, all I wanted to do was help her, I saw her as the victim and not the abuser because that's the role she played.

In your situation, you may end up like I am with exBPDgf where I'm in a position to support and to validate how she feels without causing pain to myself or getting back together. To do that has taken a lot of work on myself and to find a level of acceptance that I'm comfortable with. Some people you can do that with, others you can't. As you heal, you will gain strength and find the balance that works for you. I can't ever help my exBPDgf because she doesn't want to be helped, she is going to move on and follow the same patterns over and over again. Maybe one day she will wake up and realise she no longer wants to feel that pain and does something about it, but ultimately I have no control over when that day will be, only she does. By us allowing them to move on and do what they need to, we are actually helping them.

Again, just in the same way you watch a child grow up and go out into the real world for the first time. You have to let them make their own mistakes and follow their own paths, allow them to struggle and if they ask for help, that's when you can be there to support them.

You are doing some amazing work in your healing and it's something you can be so proud of. If you continue down the path you are on and address your own feelings, continue to work on yourself and get your own emotional strength back.

[Unducky]

Thank you so much again, Ripped Heart and HappyNihilist for your thoughtful responses!  You're both so supportive and insightful - so much of what you said really hit the nail on the head with me.

Ripped Heart, I'm very impressed with the way that you're able to be there for your ex without letting her overstep your boundaries.  It sounds really healthy on your part.  I imagine it was a big process to get there, like you said, and I know I'm not ready to go that route myself, but it was hopeful to hear what your dynamic is like in case I consider getting back in contact when I'm a little more fully healed.  Or maybe by that point I will have found enough closure and forgiveness within myself like you said that I decide to just stay on my separate path.

HappyNihilist, I'm looking forward to looking through those posts you linked.  What you said about me being driven by trying to understand him and being conditioned to be hyper-vigilant to his emotions was spot on.  Even though I can't fully understand him, having people like you on this site that understand how I've been affected by him is helpful beyond words!

[ghoststory]

uh... .no... .next question