Constantly Changing Goals are Effectively a Betrayal

[Mike_confused]

I have been married to my BPD wife for 5 years.   Much of it has been hell, although I will say I see signs of hope now and then - until they evaporate from the heat of her next down cycle.   Here is the most recent issue that could be the mother of all deal breakers for me:

We live in the northern US.   She was raised primarily in the southern US, but has lived here for 18 years.   We agreed before I asked her to marry me that this year we would move to a certain area that is very very rural.   It is where I am from, and is about 40 minutes from where we now live.   She happily agreed at the time - a time before I knew of BPD.   Where we currently live is suburban on the edge of country.   I hate it, but agreed 5 years ago to live there until this year (for reasons I will no disclose).  I am ready to move to where we agreed.

In the last 6 months we have taken two week long vacations to the southern US.   She announced after the first that she wanted to move there soon.  When I questioned her about our previously agreed upon plans, she of course denied that such an agreement ever existed.

Since that first trip she has passive-aggressively belittled me, essentially letting me know that I am crazy to want to live in the north.

If she holds fast to her demand I will have no choice but to divorce her.   I will under no circumstances move south.  I hate the heat.  I dislike the flat.   I am appalled by the suburban sprawl.   In other words, I have my personal reasons.   Lastly but not least, I need to put in another 10 years in my current career to get a decent retirement.   For me to leave this position early and move south, seeking another job in my profession, I would likely be forced to work as much as 8 years longer to make up for what I would reduce my current retirement projection by.

This post is mostly about me I realize but so what?  She appears to show no real concern for me so I might as well.

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[Mike_confused]

So my question is:   has anyone else experienced anything of this sort?

[waverider]

Changing goals, plans and agreements is quite normal. That is BPD, for many this can be on a daily basis not just over 5 years. In fact for many plans 5 years in advance have absolutely no weight at all.

has this been discussed at all in the intervening years, or just avoided?

Are you willing to chuck it in to follow your plans?

Is there a compromise?

How determined is she?

[Mike_confused]

sadly,  i most certainly will chuck it all and walk away.    They only compromise I can make is do 3 months of the winter there... .10 years from now.    She wants it all, full time next week.    On my nickel of course.


It has been discussed on a weekly basis for well over 5 years.   Many subsequent decisions have been predicated upon this plan.    And yet no I am told it was never a plan.

I am actually going to miss her.

[Notwendy]

I think there are some boundaries that are "deal breakers" and some that people are willing to compromise over. This seems like an important one for you. When dealing with our boundaries, we can only choose what we are willing to do, not another person.

However, sometimes people's wishes can change. Five years ago is a long time. Certain events can change. Family members are getting older, your wife may miss her family, or she may not want to be isolated in the area you wish to move to. Some things you don't know until you get there.

Your wife may have solid reasons to want to move, or have some kind of fantasy that it will be better there. Regardless, she wants to move there, and you want to move where you want to move. If this is a deal breaker for you, then this is your deal breaker, but it may not be a betrayal on her part. These things can happen. I have known couples where one person converts to the others religion- and most of the time things are fine. However, I have seen on rare occasion, where at midlife, one chooses to return to his/her faith. If the original deal is that they have one religion in the home, that became a deal breaker for them. I have known couples who have delt with infidelity, drug addiction, two different careers... some work it out together, some split. There isn't one way to work things out, but you can choose yours.

[Mike_confused]

Moving to the south was never discussed as she knew my feelings on it.    the deal breaker part is forcing me to leave the retirement system I am in 10 years early, and as I said, forcing me to work far longer than I would otherwise have to.   Her family is in the north VERY near where we had  planned to live, so thats not it.

Bottom line... .many people can't take the winter----or won't.   She was all for it until we married.   That is a part of the betrayal that I did not put into words.   

She expects me to liquidate  my considerable assets to buy her what she wants... .wants for now.    My greatest fear is that I move her there and then she decides to live somewhere else after that... .after I would have sold my soul to be with her.

[Mike_confused]

If 5 years is too long a period to stay committed to a plan then there is no hope for any marriage to last ever in the future... .BPD or not.   

[Cat Familiar]

Over the last ten years, my husband and I have built a very beautiful compound on acreage I've owned for over 25 years. It's our dream home, or was, until the recent drought, which has gotten my husband talking about moving somewhere else. The funny thing is that he's picked another area that is also in the midst of drought, so I'm not exactly sure what he thinks will be gained by that.

He says things like: "If it doesn't rain soon, I'm going to lose my mind." Well, it appears that our rainy season, as insignificant as it was, is  over and he has already lost his mind, so I'm not going to worry about these highly emotional vocalizations.

I did worry at one point, and even started researching other areas. But now I realize that I'm very happy here. I've got friends here and at some point we'll get rain again. I realize my husband is flighty and he'll say things for the dramatic impact: "It's never going to rain here again."

If he wants to move to some mythical place with perfect weather, then fine. He's got the wherewithal to do that. The only thing is that he doesn't have the follow-through. That's my specialty.

So in the meantime, he can bit@h all he likes about this area. I'm just going to tune him out and if he chooses to go somewhere else, so be it.

I'm sorry, Mike, about your wife's intractability. However, it sounds like you aren't going to budge on this issue that previously she had agreed to.   I think it's good that you hold steady to your plan. She may come around. With these pwBPD, they often talk a big game, but they don't back it up.

[Mike_confused]

Cat,

thank you.    She used to enjoy the north country.   I think her BPD traits cause her to think in absolutes... .it too cold here, the snow is too deep, etc.   The fact is, it is WAY too cold... .for 3 months... .25%  of the time... .a similar approach to your husband's "it'll never rain again".   

If my BPD wife could compromise... .say agree to a winter home from New Years until April... .I would buy in, and I have told her so.

To make demands of an absolute nature - an ultimatum of sorts as if she is testing me - will yield her test results she doesn't want (I think).   The strange thing is that she KNOWS me, my position and my willingness to call BS  (I know I certainly have faults)

[Notwendy]

5 years isn't too long to stay committed to a plan. What I meant was that in 5 years, people can change, learn new experiences and decide that what they thought would work for them, isn't what they originally thought.

What I imagine marriage to be is that two people commit to being with each other and working things out while still growing and changing.

People can have angreement to move to place X, and over 5 years reconsider. Whether or not they can come to some kind of compromise depends on them, their boundaries, their preferences. If this is a deal breaker for you, then that's your choice. There are many ways to solve this, but if each of you are going to hold on to your ways with no middle ground, then that may be a deal breaker.

This isn't about who is right/wrong/reasonable/unreasonable. We get to choose our deal breakers- and be OK with them. If this was the agreement you had at your marriage, and she breaks it, then this is your agreement.

[Notwendy]

My H and I are  a ways from retirement, but we have a lot of difficulty discussing moving to a place I am intersted in, because as he admitted after numerous circular arugments that " if you go there you might be too busy for me, leave me, meet someone else".

None of this makes sense, as I could do any of that right here, however my patterns to him are more familiar to him and moving would be an unknown. After numerous crazy arguments that led knowhere, with my H side railing to discussion and saying crazy hurtful things, I realized that none of this is about moving, but the fear that if we moved I will abandon him.

Maybe your wife's reasons for wanting to move aren't really about the move.

[Mike_confused]

Notwendy,

all of what you say could be accurate.  I am not sure.   Nevertheless, I am only expressing my frustration because I know that if she continues her insistence about moving to what is a foreign land to me, it will definitely cause me to end our marriage.  No question about it.    I don't want to do that, and yet I will.

It is almost as if she knows this is the one boundary for which I will not budge one inch... .and she is testing it.  This boundary has been CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY defined to her - by me.

[Cole]

This is interesting, because I suddenly find myself in the same situation. We live in a nice house on 50 acres. I lived here before we met and BPDw fell in love with it the first day she was here.

For years, she has complained about her home town. Now, all of a sudden, she has decided she wants to move back without the kids and me. She wants to give up her career, home, and family to move back and live in a cheap apartment. There are no jobs in her field, but she plans to work at Walmart to scrape by.

In our case, it is because she has an overwhelming urge to reconnect with people she went to high school with and prove she is good enough to "hang with the popular kids". Never mind that she is 46 years old and we are not kids.

Have you been able to identify exactly why your wife wants to move south? BPD's tend to live in the moment and think that the feelings they have right now are the ones they will always have.             

[Mike_confused]

Cole,

WOW yes!  I think my BPD wife wants to move south because she was a Marine brat... .moved around alot.    I think her connection to North Carolina is this:   it sounds as if it was the last place she was happy... .she was there until 9th grade.  She is still obsessed with people from high school (she's early 40's)... .actually obsessed with anything and anyone from her youth.   She idealizes the time and her friends, stating that people since then she is not close to.

To that I have responded:  No ___.  Remember the movie "Stand By Me"?   The closing statement was that you will never be as close to anyone in your life as you are to those in your youth.   She longs for that and it breaks my heart that she cannot find peace and happiness.

[Notwendy]

Mike, my mom has BPD and she has this magical thinking/black white thinking that some place else or some event is wonderful and also that it is the magic solution for he problems.

When we were younger ( I was kid at home ) she would get this idea that " we have to have this family vacation and it will save our marriage). Once we took an expensive trip- as a kid, I was oblivious, except that is was a great trip. Years later ( in a rare moment where my Dad would beging to admit that there was something not right about my mom) he said " your mother told me we just had to have that trip as it would make things better).

I followed my H to where we live now. I didn't like it as much, but I made the best of it. I realize that much of my happiness is with me. However, for my mother, the key to happiness is outside her- a projection maybe- so it had to be this trip, this place, this thing that would be the way to being happy.

In her older years, she and my father would talk about moving to a retirement center- but it had to be THE center. Once they found it ,that was it- and everything about it was wonderful, and everything about anywhere else was terrible. When the plans to move to that one place feell through, they refused to consider anywhere else- even though there we lots of good choices.

Is she testing your boudaries? Yes, people with BPD test boundaries. With my mother it is to the point of absurdity. If she senses a boudary- she will go at it, and if she gets it broken, it gives her a sense of satisfaction. I mentioned on another post, that visits to her become a battle of boundaries as she sees how far she can push you.

It sounds like your wife is idealizing the place of her younger years, and also pushing the boundaries.

[Cole]

Mike_confused,

It never ceases to amaze me how many times another man says my wife acts the same way his does, or the ladies on this forum see the same in their BPDh's that another one does.  

There is something sad and pathetic about a 40-something trying to relive high school. But what drives this? In my wife's case, I think there is a sense of never having fit in, so she wants to try to prove her worth by fitting in now. Is she serious about moving and leaving us? At the moment, yes. But that could easily change tomorrow.

Simultaneously, she is telling me that she has done nothing but mess up my life and our children's lives and it is best if she just moves away. This is part of the shame I think drives so many of her actions.      

[Cole]

Mike, my mom has BPD and she has this magical thinking/black white thinking that some place else or some event is wonderful and also that it is the magic solution for he problems.

Many people at times feel the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

But pwBPD have to have the black and white thinking you talk about. Not only is the grass greener over there, but the grass on this side is brown and contaminated with leftover waste from Chernobyl. What was great yesterday is horrible today because it is not perfect.      

[Mike_confused]

Cole and Notwendy,

thank you both.    The two of you have individually zeroed in on what I am experiencing, as have or are both of you.   The amazing thing is that, YES, my wonderful wife with BPD KNOWS WITHOUT QUESTION that where I live is a HARD BOUNDARY... .she is determined to badger me until I break.

And yet, she also KNOWS I won't give.   She is effectively signing the divorce papers that do not yet exist.   

And then the Fear of Abandonment kicks in... .

[Cole]

Cole and Notwendy,

thank you both.    The two of you have individually zeroed in on what I am experiencing, as have or are both of you.   The amazing thing is that, YES, my wonderful wife with BPD KNOWS WITHOUT QUESTION that where I live is a HARD BOUNDARY... .she is determined to badger me until I break.

And yet, she also KNOWS I won't give.   She is effectively signing the divorce papers that do not yet exist.   

And then the Fear of Abandonment kicks in... .

Not saying this is the right answer for you, but it works for me.

My BPDw decided a few months ago she wants a divorce. So, I told her that I would help her pack, move, and fix up a place of her own, but then we would have no communication save that necessary for co-parenting our kids. Suddenly, she changed her mind.

With this new idea of moving back to her home town, I sent her an email a little while ago with a link to the Walmart employment site and another to price out a U Haul. It states that I do not want her to leave, but if that is what will make her happy, I will help her. Figuring that will take the wind out of her sails.     

[OffRoad]

Mike,

It seems to me that all you have to do is stick by what you need to do. You do not need to mention divorce (although that is certainly an option if you find yourself at your new place alone). If you behave as if she will come with you or not, no arguments, it won't matter what she says. All you have to do is say "I know you'd like to live in SoUSA. It must be disappointing to want something so much. I can't move to SoUSA, though and be able to keep my retirement plans. It's what I depend on for our future, and why we discussed this previously. I want you with me in NoUSA, but if that doesn't work, I understand." No mention of divorce, which could trigger abandonment, but a choice for her to make. Then, whatever she says, you say "I know your are disappointed." If you have any concessions to give, do so ( We can continue to take trips to SoUSA; We can winter there for 3 months during retirement; etc)

There shouldn't be a need to be hard nosed ("You know you agreed with this", or or give an ultimatum ("If you won't agree with me then we'll just have to get divorced." Give her the decision to make (to be with you in NoUSA or not) and motor on with your life. If she continues to badger, say "We've discussed this, there is no option in my mind. I know it upsets you, but if you can't drop the subject, I am leaving the room, house, etc." and do so without anger. Now if the badgering is the deal breaker, that's another story... .

One thing to keep in mind, some people really need the warm and sunshine.  My D is currently in Mass for college, and she literally turns blue, even while indoors during the winter months. Not enough vitamin D, not enough exercise for circulation, and way too cold.

Have you considered getting your wife a sunlamp?

[Mike_confused]

Offroad,

the approach you describe is exactly the approach I have taken.   

Cole,

you hit the nail on the head... .her trips with me down south must have triggered certain feelings within her.   I am guessing that my wife's BPD has her thinking that the feelings she had while there would continue unchanged.  It is as if every snapshot in time is to her, exactly as things have always been and always will be.   With her there seems to be no concept of time past or present... .only this instant... .when it come to her feelings.     I guess with BPD feelings really do form facts.

[Notwendy]

My mom had some fantasy about moving near me so she could be with her grandchildren. However, in her mind, she had pictured seeing them every day, them being attentive to her. I can understand her wanting to see them more often.

However, this isn't reality. It would have made sense if the kids were still little but they are older, soon to be off to college, their own lives- which will eventually include moving away for school and later jobs.  They are not going to make grandma the center of their lives. If she moved, it would mean leaving friends she has known for years, nearby family, and her interests. She could move, have to start over, not know anyone at first, and the grandkids would be busy.

When I pointed all this out to her, she dismissed it all " oh I don't really care about those people".  Eventually she dropped this idea.

[rickosound]

I have been dealing with the same type of things for 10+ years or marriage.

BPDw is a native of the town we live in, but all of her fondest memories took place in another state where her parents retired. She constantly (at least once per cycle) threatens to leave me and move there with the kids. The odd thing is, she goes there to visit every summer for at least a month, fights with her parents, then gets upset because the town is "not like it used to be" and is full of people she dislikes, too many tourists, her favorite restaurant has changed, etc. Same thing happens every year -- she can't wait to go, then she goes and enjoys herself for a few days, then gets angry and comes back, and after a few months starts complaining about missing her former residence and begins threatening to leave again.

I used to make a big deal about it. Now I help her get ready for her annual trip, make sure she has all the money she needs, etc., and promise her that when we retire (more than a few years from now) we will both move there. It has de-escalated the battles considerably. She isn't really capable of committing to anything for more than a few days. Her ups and downs used to upset me a great deal, but until I finally learned that they pass much quicker without any extra help from me other than validation, our lives got slightly happier.