Could you have NOT done things differently?

[Sunfl0wer]

This is currently bothering me. 

Looking back, I feel honest when I say... .

I have no idea how I would have known what I was getting into!

When I replay major conflicts or possible red flags from early on in the relationship, none of them were bright red flashing lights that I ignored.

This kind of bothers me in regards to my future relationships.

For example: I was originally bothered that he ran away from perceived conflict.  This was a bit of a flag for me in the beginning. He literally would leave my house and go home and try again another day.  However, when I did confront him after a conflict, we always seemed to cooperate well and resolve it in a fantastic way. This ability for conflict resolution of his, appeared to be a great strength that could mute the negative impact of his original avoidance.

I can't see how I was to know that he was just mirroring what I wanted.  It seemed genuine.  He seemed mature and well skilled at compromise, conflict resolution.  I would not have believed years later he would be so avoidant, attack me for confrontation, lack the ability to listen to me when stressed.  He is NOT good at conflict resolution at all!  He faked it that first year!  It gradually dwindled away.

How was I to know he faked it?

It is more logical to see someone demonstrate a skill nearly a year and assume they HAVE that skill.  Even IF they are faking it, by a years time, my goodness, it would seem logical to believe that even the faker would acquire and retain the skill after that much use and practice!

How can we predict in this type of situation that a person will not remain who they've been for a whole year? 

[raisins3142]

You can't be sure, until it plays out.  When I was younger, I would walk if I saw too many red flags.  It is just a probability thing and not wasting your time on someone with low odds.  Pretty calculating, but math and formal logic are very useful in all areas.

I would say that your ex actually could do conflict resolution and he could be good at it.  I say that because he did it.  It would be like someone "faking" painting a portrait.  It can't be done, in a sense.

Now, for some reason later on he would not resolve conflict or act in that way.  Maybe because of some other pressing need or emotional dysregulation or him painting you black and devaluing you.  Who knows.

With my ex, I very clearly knew she was not the type of girl I liked.  She had a checkered past, was jaded and damaged, and had abused drugs/alcohol and been oversexed in the past and bounced from relationship to relationship.  I typically avoid women like that.  Should have this time also.  The reason I avoid them is because the chances of them being psychologically healthy is approaching zero.  And I know that based upon life experience.  But love bombing is a helluva drug.  But judging someone's past has become laughably controversial because of an illogical miasma caused by a PC mixture of reference to: 1. natural existence of variability, 2. natural existence of uncertainty, 3. it hurts the damaged person's feelings, and 4. naturalistic and moralistic logical fallacies.

[downwhim]

Because of this r/s I know that I view the world differently. I view a commitment and an engagement differently. I view BPD as a highly dangerous illness. I am more fearful than ever of any involvement with another man. My ego, my self esteem and my motivation have been beaten down.

Now, it is time for self reflection, reading, learning, healing and it will take time. They do a number on us. I for one at my age have no idea how long it will take to feel better but I know one thing. I never, ever want to feel this pain again.

The irony is they just move on. Find a new partner and feel no remorse. We are just like a toy they had, played with and put away as someone else described it. It reminds me of the book The Velveteen Rabbit I use to read to my kids. At one time we were a beautiful stuffed animal for them to hold on to and love boom. Once we got old to them and they viewed us as ragged whether we were or not (most of us are an emotional wreck so we aren't at our very best) they put us on the shelf and when they aren't busy with others and need to dust off a shelf, there we are. They do not however make us feel important again. We have to do that work.

[Tim300]

OP -- I agree with you.  I started a thread that tried to address your concern (it's now locked for additional comment):  Very early preliminary red flags of Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) -- https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239025.0

 

[Invictus01]

I suppose I could... .if I knew what I was dealing with... .It would be one thing if I was abused or mistreated. I wasn't. She idolized the cr@p out of me. We didn't have an argument or anything like that. It was just a crazy connection that ANYBODY would wanna have. I don't know anybody who would rather have a dull relationship with no spark at all. And we had sparks... .crazy sparks. Of course, now I know they were literally crazy sparks.

[apollotech]

Sunfl0wer,

As you're ruminating on what happened in your relationship try to look at his actions versus his words. That might help you see red flags, if there were any. A pwBPD is a masterful actor; look at what happened to all of us Non's during idealization. In essence the idealization stage is in itself a red flag as it is abnormally overbearing. As we have all learned, this too is a manifestation of the disorder. I would also try to remember my "gut feelings" during certain events; were you having the feeling that something wasn't right in paradise? These people use camouflage effectively; as a result, possible red flags may have been hidden or minimized. I hope these ideas/questions will help you as your further explore your relationship.

[Perfidy]

Living in the past causes depression. Living in the future is the cause of anxiety. Neither can form when living in eternity. All things come and they go. Let them.

[Sunfl0wer]

Such interesting replies and different ways of looking at it.  That's neat!

Hey Raisins,

I replied to yours earlier... .I guess I lost it?

I would say that your ex actually could do conflict resolution and he could be good at it.  I say that because he did it.  It would be like someone "faking" painting a portrait.  It can't be done, in a sense.

Now, for some reason later on he would not resolve conflict or act in that way.  Maybe because of some other pressing need or emotional dysregulation or him painting you black and devaluing you.  Who knows.

I think this is true, good point.  He could do much better at conflict resolution... .  IF the conditions are right.  IF he is not so emotionally involved in either direction... .with an "enemy" or his own reflection of his best self.

I thought about this some more today.  I feel I am to blame.  I have a natural instinct to try to help people achieve their potential.  It is partly my work, partly the result of raising a disabled child.  I feel that when dating him that first year, I spent much time facilitating things.  I guided him through a conflict resolution process.  It would have been clear for anyone to know what I wanted out of it all... .if they wanted just to please me.  I just falsely assumed that he would use his own opinions during it. 

I think I was always helping him.  I think me focusing on helping him made me feel like we were growing and learning together, which I love.  Somehow I feel it is me assuming this role that was the beginnings of me enabling.

But love bombing is a helluva drug.  But judging someone's past has become laughably controversial because of an illogical miasma caused by a PC mixture of reference to: 1. natural existence of variability, 2. natural existence of uncertainty, 3. it hurts the damaged person's feelings, and 4. naturalistic and moralistic logical fallacies.

The problem I have with judging peoples past is that I too have a past.  I find it hard to relate to those who have not had so many flavors of experiences in life.  So to only look for a person that has not been through hell in some way... .to me... .would be prejudicial... .and unfavorable as I'd have a hard time relating.

And yes... .love bombing was addictive.  There.  I said it!

[Sunfl0wer]

Because of this r/s I know that I view the world differently. I view a commitment and an engagement differently. I view BPD as a highly dangerous illness. I am more fearful than ever of any involvement with another man. My ego, my self esteem and my motivation have been beaten down.

Now, it is time for self reflection, reading, learning, healing and it will take time. They do a number on us. I for one at my age have no idea how long it will take to feel better but I know one thing. I never, ever want to feel this pain again.

The irony is they just move on. Find a new partner and feel no remorse. We are just like a toy they had, played with and put away as someone else described it. It reminds me of the book The Velveteen Rabbit I use to read to my kids. At one time we were a beautiful stuffed animal for them to hold on to and love boom. Once we got old to them and they viewed us as ragged whether we were or not (most of us are an emotional wreck so we aren't at our very best) they put us on the shelf and when they aren't busy with others and need to dust off a shelf, there we are. They do not however make us feel important again. We have to do that work.

So very true.  The thought of that Velveteen Rabbit, yes, so sad and so true completely.

Yes, it is my job to feel important.  Such important words, all of them! Thank you!

[raisins3142]

For me, it depends upon what that past is, how it interacts with what you value, and how long ago it occurred and to what intensity/how long.

For instance, my BPD exgf cheated on her last two serious boyfriends (and these 2 put up with tons of crap from her she admitted and as far as she knows never cheated on her).  And that is just what she admitted to because she screwed up talking to me with her years and such, and I figured out she had cheated.  She admitted to having done so AND lying to me about it when I asked directly if she was faithful to others.

That was in the past, as all things are.  But that was a very big deal to me.  It indicated she had an above average chance of cheating on me at some point.

Now, many will say "well the past is the past and she says she has changed and judge her based upon... ."  For me, I can't take this line of thinking in all areas.  When it comes to certain things, the past is the best (if not the only) predictor of what someone will do in the future.

I'm not judging you because you said you have some things in your past.  I'm stating that knee jerk "past is the past" doesn't make sense to me, and I wonder if anyone really follows it.

What if a suitor told you he had beaten to a pulp several ex GFs but got counseling and is better now?

I'd run away.  There are people without that bad of a past.  And unfortunately, if you do something bad enough in the past, it will follow you and perhaps rightfully so.

Remember, we are allowed to value whatever we want and it doesn't have to be "fair".  :)oes anyone weep over the "unfairness" of women generally preferring men (all else being equal) that are over 5' 10" versus those under 5' 5"?  Not fair, but you value what you value, and the past comes into that for me at least.

[Sunfl0wer]

OP -- I agree with you.  I started a thread that tried to address your concern (it's now locked for additional comment):  Very early preliminary red flags of Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) -- https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239025.0

What does OP mean?

Thank you Tim, that link is great for me to go back to. 

I don't think he showed as many   as some others. 

Let me try:

• love bombing



• moving fast



• intense fast



• needing a lot of praise



• forgetting about me when not around



• ran from conflict



• had not lived alone for anytime



• had a BPD ex (sorry guys!)

Hummm... .  Idk

The more I think about it. Those look like some regular dating things to me.  I think moving forward it may better help me (others) to focus on my behavior:

-

• over accommodated date nights even though I had a more restrictive schedule



• was assuming the role of "helper" in him recovering from his divorce.



• put up with his behavior toward my S thinking he will come around



• put up with the behavior of his D thinking he will learn, giving him the new solo dad excuse for long lasting dynamics.



• let things in my life slide so that I could see him, get caught up in the moment/feeling of it

[Tim300]

Glad I could help.  "OP" means "original poster," as in the person who started the thread.

[nowwhatz]

Apparently I could not have done anything differently.  Everything had to run its course until I was readier to change what I was doing and take more control.

[m-and-m]

Good day bpdfamily

I have been on this site for about a week now... .It has helped so much. I am 10 months post breakup. I have done NC, and LC... .we have a daughter 3. I have been reading some of the lists of red flags... .I know there were many in the beginning, i was planning on breaking up and she reeled me back in with praise and sex... .Then the "The dr said i couldnt ever get pregnant.", "these condoms are making me red, i think im allergic."... ."Im pregnant!"

red flags in beginning... .

Lived with her sister at 30

never had a checking account or knew how to write a check

constant painting black of her ex

claimed epileptic but wasnt getting treatment (weird for a grown woman)

no steady jobs or career

beautiful woman and very artistic... .Claimed to only be with three men(later found out otherwise)

tried to get out of my moving car because i didnt pay $500 for her dental work

When in conflict would start to cry or "get sick"

acted like everyone was against her or out to get her.

Told me she never finished college... .later on said she had her associates degree.

I talk to her sister about some issues... .her Sis said i need to keep Pot for her at all times.

unfortunately for me when something like a pregnancy happens... .I make that relationship and family a PRIORITY for me... .and i was so beat down by the end... .Its taken me this long just to get my head on straight, and my self esteem still isnt at its finest.

I have read here that we are like a toy that gets used played with then thrown away until "needed again"

has anyone had any success in these relationships?

[downwhim]

I am curious too. Anyone have success with a BPD?