Here's a thought: We're all somewhat BPD

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Having walked around in the mud of this for a while, there is one idea that I think I can have some faith in: human relationships are among the most complex things out there.  They seem simple when they're going very well (and I think that sometimes this happens almost purely by chance) but when things are not going perfectly, how can we really find the origin of the trouble?  To me, examining a relationship in this way becomes almost a philosophical exercise.

I put some stock in my T's statement that my dBPDxw has possibly the worst history of trauma that he has ever come across in his career, and that this supports a guarded belief that she has some distinctive BPD and NPd traits (the form or exhibition of which he has termed "classic," such as "classic approach-avoidance behavior".  And learning some of the things I have does help me look upon decades of her behavior differently. Some of the behaviors she exhibits even now, but she is not in serious treatment.  She sees a social worker who seems to me to be a twit and an enabler. 

But, as my T has said, "What use is a diagnosis?"

Here is my suggestion.  We know that the pwBPD in our lives has monumental problems with real intimacy.  But I think that we do as well.  I think that if we knew what real intimacy was, if we really understood it, we would not tolerate BPD behavior for a minute. 

I think that our issues are not dissimilar from theirs.  I think that theirs are far more debilitating and it must make their inner lives hellish, but we are complicit, and on some level, we understand these people.  Others might not, and would walk away.   

Thoughts?

[goateeki]

Having walked around in the mud of this for a while, there is one idea that I think I can have some faith in: human relationships are among the most complex things out there.  They seem simple when they're going very well (and I think that sometimes this happens almost purely by chance) but when things are not going perfectly, how can we really find the origin of the trouble?  To me, examining a relationship in this way becomes almost a philosophical exercise.

I put some stock in my T's statement that my dBPDxw has possibly the worst history of trauma that he has ever come across in his career, and that this supports a guarded belief that she has some distinctive BPD and NPd traits (the form or exhibition of which he has termed "classic," such as "classic approach-avoidance behavior".  And learning some of the things I have does help me look upon decades of her behavior differently. Some of the behaviors she exhibits even now, but she is not in serious treatment.  She sees a social worker who seems to me to be a twit and an enabler. 

But, as my T has said, "What use is a diagnosis?"

Here is my suggestion.  We know that the pwBPD in our lives has monumental problems with real intimacy.  But I think that we do as well.  I think that if we knew what real intimacy was, if we really understood it, we would not tolerate BPD behavior for a minute. 

I think that our issues are not dissimilar from theirs.  I think that theirs are far more debilitating and it must make their inner lives hellish, but we are complicit, and on some level, we understand these people.  Others might not, and would walk away.   

Thoughts?

[tjay933]

We know that the pwBPD in our lives has monumental problems with real intimacy.  But I think that we do as well.  I think that if we knew what real intimacy was, if we really understood it, we would not tolerate BPD behavior for a minute.

         

this is your eureka! moment. been there. done that. keep up the good work 

[GrowThroughIt]

Having walked around in the mud of this for a while, there is one idea that I think I can have some faith in: human relationships are among the most complex things out there.  They seem simple when they're going very well (and I think that sometimes this happens almost purely by chance) but when things are not going perfectly, how can we really find the origin of the trouble?  To me, examining a relationship in this way becomes almost a philosophical exercise.

I put some stock in my T's statement that my dBPDxw has possibly the worst history of trauma that he has ever come across in his career, and that this supports a guarded belief that she has some distinctive BPD and NPd traits (the form or exhibition of which he has termed "classic," such as "classic approach-avoidance behavior".  And learning some of the things I have does help me look upon decades of her behavior differently. Some of the behaviors she exhibits even now, but she is not in serious treatment.  She sees a social worker who seems to me to be a twit and an enabler. 

But, as my T has said, "What use is a diagnosis?"

Here is my suggestion.  We know that the pwBPD in our lives has monumental problems with real intimacy.  But I think that we do as well.  I think that if we knew what real intimacy was, if we really understood it, we would not tolerate BPD behavior for a minute. 

I think that our issues are not dissimilar from theirs.  I think that theirs are far more debilitating and it must make their inner lives hellish, but we are complicit, and on some level, we understand these people.  Others might not, and would walk away.   

Thoughts?

I agree. And I have always thought this. The difference however is that we choose not to act upon it. For example, we could be just as distant etc if we wanted to.

My uN/BPDexgf used to say that she loved that I could be cruel/sociopathic if I wanted to be (ie to flick that switch on) but she loved that I chose not to be like that. She could see that I chose compassion over being cold. Too bad she couldn't do the same!

But knowing all of this makes it worse, because it feels like we was betrayed.

[fromheeltoheal]

Good train of thought here.  The traits of BPD exist on a continuum and we all exhibit some of them some of the time, and a diagnosis of the disorder just entails exhibiting several of them most of the time.  Plus, we are who we hang out with to an extent, and most of us 'inherit' traits of the disorder when we're in a relationship with someone who is apparently disordered.

But without getting hung up on diagnoses, it's very healthy to shift the focus from our exes to us and our part in the proceedings; we were willing volunteers after all and could have walked away, so why did we stay?  :)id we know we weren't getting our needs met and then blame ourselves and try harder?  :)id we not know what a healthy relationship was and therefore settled for dysfunction?  :)id we not consider ourselves worthy of real love and intimacy so we made do with what we had?  That's where the growth is when these relationships end, the digging for our part in it all and the growing through it with new awareness.

[HappyNihilist]

We know that the pwBPD in our lives has monumental problems with real intimacy.  But I think that we do as well.  I think that if we knew what real intimacy was, if we really understood it, we would not tolerate BPD behavior for a minute.

         

this is your eureka! moment. been there. done that. keep up the good work 

That's where the growth is when these relationships end, the digging for our part in it all and the growing through it with new awareness.

Absolutely.

There is such a gift in the end of these relationships, and when we turn our focus from our exes to ourselves, is when we begin to unwrap it.