Asking "what's wrong?"

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I think I'm codependent as get out, and want other people to be happy so I can be happy.   

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?" when people are upset and I JUST WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY.   Of course, when I'm not happy and can't put it into words, I hate that question. 

So do I stop asking and wonder, ask once and accept the answer I'm given, or take some other course?   Obviously sometimes people are going to lie to you because you're the thing that's wrong.   

[mssalty]

I think I'm codependent as get out, and want other people to be happy so I can be happy.   

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?" when people are upset and I JUST WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY.   Of course, when I'm not happy and can't put it into words, I hate that question. 

So do I stop asking and wonder, ask once and accept the answer I'm given, or take some other course?   Obviously sometimes people are going to lie to you because you're the thing that's wrong.   

[tjay933]

for me, i "get something" out of helping people. don't know how else to describe it. this site has been great for me though. too many people for me to "help" them all so I have to "learn" to pick and chose. I'm so into helping people, i approach strangers in the store to help them if they look lost or in need of help. I know I have a problem and i'm working on it. i see people who are lost and i have to stop and ask myself if i "should" help them. I ask myself "is it in my best interest to feed my obsession(if you can call it that) and help them or is it in my best interest to ignore them(so as not to feed it)?" I find myself more and more walking away from these situations and not feeling guilty(i would feel guilt if i didn't help them) about not helping them. it is all part of the growing process and healing myself and learning to not help and not feel guilty about not helping. then when i chose to help someone, i let myself feel good about it, not because i helped but because i "chose to".

[Mike-X]

I think I'm codependent as get out, and want other people to be happy so I can be happy.   

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?" when people are upset and I JUST WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY.   Of course, when I'm not happy and can't put it into words, I hate that question. 

So do I stop asking and wonder, ask once and accept the answer I'm given, or take some other course?   Obviously sometimes people are going to lie to you because you're the thing that's wrong.   

I would imagine that people differ in what they are looking for when they are upset. How do you prefer that people respond to you?

[Grey Kitty]

I think I'm codependent as get out, and want other people to be happy so I can be happy.

And that's what is wrong. You are needing other people to be happy so you can be happy.

Next time you see somebody who is clearly upset, try a different approach:

Validation and curiosity. Say something to validate that they appear upset/angry/sad/whatever. [Yes, you can use your validation skills on people besides the pwBPD in your life. They work great with everybody!]

Be curious about what that person is feeling... .not probing, not needing to understand everything, and absolutely not needing to fix things... .just interested in what they are willing to share with you.

[lbjnltx]

The universal needs:

I am of worth

My feelings matter

Someone really cares about me

If you truly want to help someone validate them.  Instead of asking "what is wrong?" (because then they may want you to fix it for them... which you don't have the power to do) make an observation statement... .like "you seem to look a little down today, are you sad?" and then listen, understand and validate their feelings. Walking beside someone emotionally without trying to fix their problems will not feed your co dependency.  It is about them... .not us.  It's about meeting their needs and not fixing their problems. 

If you are getting your universal needs met by fixing other people's problems perhaps you need to validate yourself and receive validation from others.  You are of worth, not because you can make everyone else feel better, because you are intrinsically valuable.  Other people's feelings are not anymore important than your own (sit with your feelings... .allow them to come and work through the discomfort you feel).  Others will care about you because they know you care about them... .you have listened, understood, and acknowledged their feelings.  Many of these people will want to do the same for you.

lbj

[Panda39]

Hi mssalty

My son noticed my SO (who has an uBPDxw) was always asking me "are you okay".  I didn't really notice it until my son pointed it out and he was right my SO was asking me a lot.  I talked to my SO about it and we think in his case it is a left over side effect of being with his ex... .taking my emotional temperature. In my case since I am not BPD this is unnecessary but being married to is uBPDxw for 17 years I can see why he would want to gage her emotional state, since it was so unpredictable.   Since we talked about it I don't get the question hardly at all anymore. My SO was only doing this with me however not all the other people in his life.

That being said your happiness depending on someone elses happiness is codependent. Our happiness and self worth come from within.

I'm currently reading a really good book about codependence that you might find helpful... .Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?" when people are upset and I JUST WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY.   Of course, when I'm not happy and can't put it into words, I hate that question. 

I don't like being asked 'what's wrong' either, it presupposes something is wrong, for one, many times it's none of the person's business, and there's usually a judgement in the question.  Since I don't like it I figure other people don't either, so I've been saying something like 'it seems you're not doing so well and I'm willing to listen if you want to talk', which usually ends up with someone feeling free to talk about whatever's going on.  The other piece is the person asking the questions in any interaction is the person in control, so I intentionally make a statement instead of ask a question.

Of course none of that applies to the dysfunction that was my relationship with my ex; if I said anything at all when she was in certain moods the explosion it would cause would rattle the windows; leaving was the only solution there.

[Suzn]

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?"

So do I stop asking and wonder, ask once and accept the answer I'm given, or take some other course? 

I think you need to stop asking whomever your asking and start asking yourself why you are uncomfortable with someone being upset. Was there someone in your childhood that made you uncomfortable when they were upset? This is learned behavior and it's a codependent trait, I use to do this too. 

[mssalty]

I'm big into asking "what's wrong?"

So do I stop asking and wonder, ask once and accept the answer I'm given, or take some other course? 

I think you need to stop asking whomever your asking and start asking yourself why you are uncomfortable with someone being upset. Was there someone in your childhood that made you uncomfortable when they were upset? This is learned behavior and it's a codependent trait, I use to do this too. 

Probably one of my parents, who I realized a few days ago I've spent a good chunk of my adult life trying to make things right for (often in the context of explaining or trying to handle things for other people), in addition to the BPD in my life.    If I look at my own life, I realize that I've spent most of it reading the looks and reactions of other people and assuming that whatever is going on is something I've done or can fix.   

If I don't or can't fix it, then it's obvious there is no reason they can or should like/love me, right?   

The problem is that I honestly don't know where the point is that you become a jerk for refusing or disintangling yourself. 

I just feel like I've had some sort of break through.   I realized just this moment that this same parent has spent life bending over backward for a variety of strangers and people they know alike and then getting angry because the same courtesy is not extended to them.   

Which sounds... .familiar to me.   

How much of my life have I figured the only thing good about me was that I did good for others?  And how much of my own value is in how others treat me (or don't treat me) or even putting some sort of cosmic justice into everyday misfortunes as a sign that the universe hates me?   

Wow.   Of course, the question is, how does one that spends so much time worrying about others learn how to do it to themselves? 

[mssalty]

Thinking about it, I realize there is a flip side to this.

When I have shared my own problems/issues with someone I am close to (parents/SO), historically the reaction has been to minimize the issue.   When I faced something years ago that emotionally crushed me in a way I had never been before, my parents didn't know how to react, and said that I was taking it too seriously, shouldn't have been so serious about it, etc.    They made me doubt my pain should be real, and made me feel like I was adversely impacting them.   I don't think this was intentional, and it certainly wasn't in a callous way (ie: they didn't say, "you're overly dramatic, you need to get over yourself, etc.) but ultimately had the impact of invalidating what I was feeling.   And GOD how I wish they would have made me feel safe to seek help.   

With my SO, when I share my problems, if they don't involve them, my SO offers varying degrees of helpfulness, but often seems to minimize what I'm feeling, or say "it's going to get better."   If I share something that involves them then the work begins to minimize my criticisms by pointing out something I do or don't do that is worse, to say I'm making a big deal out of nothing, or I'm lying.   

So you wind up bottling up all your own emotions about the serious things because you feel like you've got nobody who really wants to help you.  ANd if they've minimized it, you add another thing to the list of things that is wrong with you, making it harder to love yourself. 

[going places]

Salty, you are brilliant, and speak truth.

I can so relate!

[Mike-X]

Thinking about it, I realize there is a flip side to this.

When I have shared my own problems/issues with someone I am close to (parents/SO), historically the reaction has been to minimize the issue.   When I faced something years ago that emotionally crushed me in a way I had never been before, my parents didn't know how to react, and said that I was taking it too seriously, shouldn't have been so serious about it, etc.    They made me doubt my pain should be real, and made me feel like I was adversely impacting them.   I don't think this was intentional, and it certainly wasn't in a callous way (ie: they didn't say, "you're overly dramatic, you need to get over yourself, etc.) but ultimately had the impact of invalidating what I was feeling.   And GOD how I wish they would have made me feel safe to seek help.   

With my SO, when I share my problems, if they don't involve them, my SO offers varying degrees of helpfulness, but often seems to minimize what I'm feeling, or say "it's going to get better."   If I share something that involves them then the work begins to minimize my criticisms by pointing out something I do or don't do that is worse, to say I'm making a big deal out of nothing, or I'm lying.   

So you wind up bottling up all your own emotions about the serious things because you feel like you've got nobody who really wants to help you.  ANd if they've minimized it, you add another thing to the list of things that is wrong with you, making it harder to love yourself. 

Thanks for sharing all of this. I am sorry for all of the invalidating responses that you have received from SOs in your life. Since learning about BPD, I have begun to notice how often people give what could, at least, be experienced as invalidating responses. I don't  think that most people are even aware of this. I sure wasn't. And it does make sense that you would want to then go out and be different, genuinely empathetic and compassionate.

I feel similarly. I think that is in part why I allowed boundaries and values to be trampled on and ignored red flags. Going forward, I just feel that I have to be more mindful of my own boundaries and values, and I have to take note of people who try to push to cross them and stand strong when they do.

[Grey Kitty]

  You are asking all the right questions here... .and answering a lot of them for yourself. I've got $.02 to add... .

If I don't or can't fix it, then it's obvious there is no reason they can or should like/love me, right?   

The problem is that I honestly don't know where the point is that you become a jerk for refusing or disintangling yourself.

Subdivide that... .

1. At which point are you being a jerk/unkind/etc?

2. At which point will you be accused of being a jerk/uncaring/etc?

If you have a history of trying to fix people in your life... .they will react when you stop. Probably badly. Probably by pushing the buttons they are used to pushing in you which get them to go back to fixing them. The adjustment period is going to be rocky and uncomfortable for you.

As somebody with fixer tendencies... .try this as an alternative: Stop OFFERING to fix things for anybody for a while. Wait for people to ASK you for help directly. Then decide if you can offer what is asked for in a way that feels good/healthy/safe for you, if you do feel like being generous in this regard. And say "yes" or "no" accordingly.

If you get an indirect request/guilt trip/whatever, you could either ignore the indirect request, or try a direct question like "Are you asking me for help with X?", and see if you do get a direct request. (Many people find it very hard to ask for something directly, and may need the guidance) It is better to save that for times when you expect to say yes to a direct request 

Thinking about it, I realize there is a flip side to this.

When I have shared my own problems/issues with someone I am close to (parents/SO), historically the reaction has been to minimize the issue.

They are teaching you that they aren't safe and supportive people in this sort of issue for you. You may need to find other people in your life to go to for things like this. (Supportive friends, a therapist, this message board, etc.)

 GK

[heartandwhole]

Mssalty,

Thank you for bringing up this important topic. I can very much relate to your feelings, and I agree that you are experiencing a breakthrough.  

Thinking about it, I realize there is a flip side to this.

When I have shared my own problems/issues with someone I am close to (parents/SO), historically the reaction has been to minimize the issue.   When I faced something years ago that emotionally crushed me in a way I had never been before, my parents didn't know how to react, and said that I was taking it too seriously, shouldn't have been so serious about it, etc.    They made me doubt my pain should be real, and made me feel like I was adversely impacting them.  I don't think this was intentional, and it certainly wasn't in a callous way (ie: they didn't say, "you're overly dramatic, you need to get over yourself, etc.) but ultimately had the impact of invalidating what I was feeling.   And GOD how I wish they would have made me feel safe to seek help.  

In a way, they were doing what you do: trying to stop your pain so that they didn't have to feel any... .just in a different way. I'm right there with you. We do it by caring, listening, validating (because that is what we need and want from them) and they do it in more of a "get rid of it" way so that they don't have to go further with their own feelings.

So you wind up bottling up all your own emotions about the serious things because you feel like you've got nobody who really wants to help you.

Yes. That's what I do. And I've even resigned myself that I won't share painful feelings with certain people, including family, because of the invalidation. Unfortunately, both of us are missing out on each other. I mean, when I don't share who I really am (which includes painful feelings, needs, wants) then the other person misses out on the "real" me and likewise I miss out on them, too, because I don't even give them a chance to step up and be there for me. Now, some people have proven consistently that they cannot be supportive, and I won't go there with them. But this habit bleeds into other situations; for example, if one time a close friend or lover is invalidating, I might shut down from that point on and not reveal my needs anymore. That deeply cuts into the intimacy that I will experience with that person.

If we are "walled up," then the other person is not getting the real us—in a way, we're not being honest! We need to take responsibility for tending to our own feelings... .giving ourselves what we are giving others: listening, validating, compassion. When I ignore my own needs and feelings, I am invalidating myself. Then I (silently) blame the other person for not being there for me!

Having healthy boundaries with others allows us to be more authentic with them, and that affects the other person, too. In other words, instead of the usual bottling up of emotions and "I'll deal with this myself" attitude, telling them what you need and how you're feeling lets them see who you are in a deeper way. It requires vulnerability, and there is always the chance of being rejected or invalidated, which isn't easy after painful childhood experiences, but my T said that when we trust that we have the tools to take care of ourselves emotionally, then it won't be so scary.

How can you give yourself what you need when you reach out and get invalidation, mssalty? How are you present for yourself when you are hurting?

ANd if they've minimized it, you add another thing to the list of things that is wrong with you, making it harder to love yourself.  

It really hurts.   :'(   And I think this is the opportunity for you to do for yourself what you always do for others. I have seen that when I am able to do this, some other people start to "mirror" that behavior and suddenly they are very present and validating when I express difficult emotions—something I didn't expect, and it feels good!

Thanks for letting me share mssalty. You are really digging deep here and I am there with you.   

heartandwhole