Need advice about boundaries

[emergent]

I feel like I went to both heaven and hell today... .What started off as a good day for my BPDw turned sour through a few unfortunate events that in a normal mind would not be devastating. She was feeling so good this morning, she put on music (rare except in the car) and cleaned the kitchen. Then she broke a glass jar all over the floor. Then she broke a lightbulb. Then she proclaimed her day totally wrecked (along with a series of ugly expletives), said she'd never get anything done, and there was general hell in the house.

It was true, or rather she made it come true; her day was wrecked. Bad day on the whole. Many hours later, at (late) dinner time, she came home very late with the groceries I'd been waiting for. This is part of an effort on her part to do a bit more chores, since she is not working and I am, and since I do the vast majority of stuff in the house and the garden and in the community. She seems to have recognized this all of a sudden and has agreed to do the groceries. Anyway, I'd been waiting with one of our kids for these groceries so I could make dinner, and she came home late with groceries and the other kid. These kids need to get to bed at a decent hour and so I was a bit upset about the time. The kids are tired these days and I am concerned about them getting a good meal and enough sleep to be in shape for school. I also have very little time in the evening to do all I need to do after the kids are in bed, so I don't like late bed times.

My BPDw plays soccer on Monday evenings and went into a rage about how late she was going to be. I'm always at a loss when it comes to describing such conversations because they make so little sense I can never remember what she said. I don't know how or when she switched topics between things that make her mad, or half of the illogical and nonsensical things she said, or in what order, since it made no sense even at the time. I am sure about what I said, which was very little, and the thing she took very badly at the beginning was, "This isn't going to work, you doing groceries at this time of day." Probably I will go back to doing them from now on, as she made it clear that this was my problem. I'd rather that than the fighting. The raging kept on going, changing topic from her being late for soccer and me being a horrible person for having said what I said.

Meanwhile, my daughter N poked her head into the kitchen (from playing outside with a neighbour) and asked if she could go see the lambs. They're about 50m down the dirt road, where no cars go. I said yes. N went off to see the lambs, and I was damned. BPDw screamed on, now about how disrespectful it was of me to answer N without consulting her, and look, she's taking her bike without a helmet, and a helmet is the law and N could be killed because of me and... .I asked BPDw if she wanted to go get N back, since she appeared to be concerned about her safety, but no. She wanted me to realize how wrong it was to send N off on her own and how dangerous it was and how inconsiderate I was of her parenting role and... .I really wanted to know if she wanted to address her fears about N, to do something to assuage them right now, if she wanted me to go get N back so BPDw could know she was safe. But she would have none of it; she said it was too late, I'd done too much damage. It seemed (as so often) that all she really wanted was to yell at me.

At some point I said, "OK, calm down. Tell me how you would like me to deal with this kind of thing in the future." Because it was apparently so this wouldn't happen in the future that she was yelling at me now. Of course, being told to calm down makes things worse (how do I keep forgetting that?). In my mind, I was setting boundaries by saying this; in my mind it was very clear: Don't talk to me unless you can do it calmly and with respect. But that is not what she heard. Of course it isn't. It kept going for 10 good minutes, during which time N came back totally fine, but BPDw didn't seem to take notice or care.

Even if I had said it better, like "I will not listen to you unless you speak to me with respect," I don't see how that can work. The rage will keep going; I know it. And what choice do I have but to listen? I'm not very good at blocking it out.

Any advice on setting and maintaining boundaries would be greatly appreciated.

[Aurylian]

Even if I had said it better, like "I will not listen to you unless you speak to me with respect," I don't see how that can work. The rage will keep going; I know it. And what choice do I have but to listen? I'm not very good at blocking it out.

You actually aren't that far off, but missing a big step.

You: "I will not be involved in a conversation with you yelling or being disrespectful."

Her: raging

You: [sound of door closing after you walk out]

Remember that the boundary is not to make her do something, it is to protect you and define what you will and will not tolerate.  To be honest it sounds like you stuck in with this conversation way too long.  Once your pwBPD is dysregulate, nothing good will come from trying to discuss anything. That is the point to call a time out and maybe address it later.

I cannot tell you how many time outs and walking out on conversations I had to have before my BPDw started reducing (not completely stopping) this behavior.

FWIW, my wife has the same safety fears and I find myself in these conversations frequently.  But, they happen at a more sane level now.

[emergent]

Thank you, Aurylian. This is helpful, because although it may seem to be an obvious response, it's not always clear when I'm in the thick of it. Actually, nothing at all seems clear to me when BPDw goes into fight mode.

I am realizing that I make excuses internally for not leaving the conversation. So often, I find myself getting raged at and I don't leave for practical reasons, like something would burn on the stove. But if there isn't a practical reason, often I put on the caretaker hat and tell myself all about how horrible a person I'd be to leave her now, when she's clearly distressed. I tell myself or convince myself that I can tolerate it, for her sake. Or I worry about how much worse it would get if I walked out. So I don't. But of course I know you're right.

It's good to have your perspective because you've seen it work in the long term.

What do you do if she follows you out?

[Aurylian]

Thank you, Aurylian. This is helpful, because although it may seem to be an obvious response, it's not always clear when I'm in the thick of it. Actually, nothing at all seems clear to me when BPDw goes into fight mode.

... .

What do you do if she follows you out?

This wasn't a natural response for most of us.  I cannot even tell you how many multi-hour rage sessions I sat through trying to use logic and reason before I learned about BPD.  Even after it took me lots of practice on when and how to communicate boundaries. 

If she were to follow me and rage more then I would keep walking wherever I could.  It's a good idea to have a plan and a safe area you can go to.  I private room or office can work, but just be careful if you have to close the door not to use any physical force.  If you cannot get into a room for privacy, take a walk in the street or get into the car for a drive.  I even had a friend on call who would let me stay at his house if I really needed it.  I never did, but it was nice to know it was there if I needed it.

[Lucky Jim]

often I put on the caretaker hat and tell myself all about how horrible a person I'd be to leave her now, when she's clearly distressed. I tell myself or convince myself that I can tolerate it, for her sake. Or I worry about how much worse it would get if I walked out. So I don't.

Hey emergent, Why should you tolerate it?  So what if it gets worse after you walk out?  Why are you a horrible person for protecting yourself from abuse?  I've been there, my friend, and sat through endless lectures and diatribes from my BPDxW while she was in a rage over some minor event or offense.  Convincing yourself that you can take it is being disrespectful to yourself.  Presumably you are ignoring your gut feelings.  The raging takes a toll on you and eats away at your foundation.  I should know after a 16-year marriage to a pwBPD.

LuckyJim