"Everyones family has something like that"

[isilme]

I have stopped hiding the fact that I grew up in a bad environment.  I feel a bit of a need for those close to me, like my fiancé’s family and close friends, to understand the reasons I am NC with my mother and father, and plan to stay that way.  Both were abusive and toxic in their own ways, and I've found that when I try to keep in contact with Mom, who due to her constant victim-hood is seen as the "lesser" of the two evils, I can't keep from falling back into my badly codependent roles learned in childhood.  I am just not strong enough to maintain a boundary AND be in contact with her.  It just seems to lead to strained conversations, and eventually, another bout of NC.  I can't see how that hurtful cycle is supposed to be good for either of us.

But I know people from non-BPD households, even where other types of dysfunction exits, can't understand what it was like growing up isolated in a house, with no siblings, friends, other family, just a manic depressive violent father, and a bi polar, vindictively guilt-tripping mother, and me.

I’ve tried to illustrate at times, when people seem to be listening, that my experience wasn’t just a random argument now and then, but parents who tried to commit suicide and homicide on the obviously bad days, and totally neglected and ignored me most others.  Small things I took for granted as ‘normal’ ways to get kids to be independent, were in fact, forms of neglect.  A 5 year old should not be given an alarm clock and expected to get up, dressed, breakfast and out the door alone so Mommy can sleep in.  A 14 year old should not be able to go a week without seeing the other two people in the house, unless they are asking her to do something.  A 12 year old should not wear dirty clothes because at 12 she didn’t remember to do laundry and Mom hasn’t done it in years.  She should not sleep in a bed with springs popping out of the mattress, and be afraid to mention it to her parents, instead, solving the problem alone by stuffing a comforter between the sheets.  And of course, a 15 year old should not be pulling Dad off from strangling Mom while getting dressed to go to church.

Lots of people on here have lived and are living in situations like this.  It’s not just the obvious beatings or self-esteem damaging put downs and mind games that you can see after a while.  It’s the other, not so easy to see instances of being told you were not important, and no one will help you but you that have hurt me.  In a way it also made me stronger, but I’s not want to have anyone made ‘stronger’ from the childhood and teen years I had, or the isolation from family I have now to try to stay healthy.

So when discussing things like appropriate child rearing when FI’s sister in law asks, I have to state that my experiences make me question my instincts, and illustrate in a (hopefully) non-horrifying anecdote that my childhood was not a guide of what to do.  And when I get the, “Everyone has had that in their family,” from a person I know has an awesome mom, and a sister and nieces that yes, have some issues but get along, I get irked.  I did not get in a long lasting fight with my mom over a prom dress that has lasted into my 30s.  My mom was my child – I was parentified into be HER mother, and rarely had the positive mom-type-input my soon to be SIL grew up knowing.  My dad, though I do not remember ANY inappropriate touching, DID draw me in to stand in for Mom as a wife-figure, from a young age (10ish), because his wife was doped up asleep most of the time, so we had wonderful conversations about his transgressions from his first marriage by soliciting prostitutes and the like, or his disappointment in his current marriage, or his frequenting of strip clubs. 

So no, not everyone has that in their family.  I just needed to gripe a bit, sorry. 

[clljhns]

  isilme,

In reading your story, all I can say is horrifying, simply horrifying. No, no child should be made to take care of themselves from age 5 and then become the surrogate spouse for dad and parent for mom. I am so sorry to hear what you went through. You are right. Not everyone had a childhood like this, or like many of us here. It must feel invalidating to have someone who clearly had a loving home tell you that everyone had the same experiences that you did. How did you respond to this?

I know what it feels like to grow up in a crazy environment and to be made responsible for the emotional care of my parents. I also know what it is like when people don't understand why I am NC with my FOO.

Glad you shared your story. No need to apologize.   

[isilme]

I just stated that most people's parents didn't have empathy problems similar to a sociopath (not PC, but people know the term), and moved the conversation on.  I don't want to upset people when I am honest, but am also tired of feeling the old family taboo of 'hide it all', and also, knowing that it's hard WITHOUT knowing some of my less scary stories for people to come close to fathoming my need for NC.  needing NC often makes me feel weak, and yes, guilty.  I cannot be strong like some people here who can or have to maintain that relationship.  I kinda feel they gave up on it first, and also, if I had a partner or friend acting just like they did to a CHILD, no one would question my ending the relationship.  But it's just hard to grasp if you had  even just one decent parent.  I know no one has perfect parents.  FI moms  a hoarder extreme, and a bit of a queen herself, and her kids have their own fleas to fight.  But I'd never think we'd need to go NC for her. 

[Ziggiddy]

Hi isilme

Your post gave me chills. Really resonant with me at this particular time.

I can understand your frustration and irritation when people say "Oh everyone has that" At best it's minimising to your experience and at worst it is completely dismissive of your pain, which goes on, I suspect.

No I don't think many people get it. In fact at times I think even those who had dysfunction in their own family don't understand the far reaching implications. I think you need to be listened to and sympathised with. Over and over.

The damage done to you was constant and cumulative and I think you were completely ripped off over and over in multiple ways and in multiple roles.

No child should have to do what you did - both for yourself and for your parents. You had to be your own mother and father and stand in as husband wife protector and household director. Badly done by your parents to ever have done that to you.

It doesn't seem fair that you had to suffer such shocking treatment, such a lack of support and so much neglect and then worse to be left to clean up the mess that your substandard parenting left you with. It has insidious effects.

I too feel deflated and let down when people are like "it's normal, most people have that." It triggers us more, much more than others. It seems a way of saying "Oh enough already" How can a healthy or semi healthy family background possibly produce the deep level of empathy that you NEED to heal? The whole of the human connection is crucial to recovery - for you to know someone gets it - REALLY gets it. Unfortunately it's rare and getting rarer.

Me I have retreated a huge amount after doing so much healing work and am aghast to find myself receiving similar treatment from friends who used to 'get it', who have bad experiences of their own but who have simply stopped 'getting it.' My pain - your pain too I imagine, comes in waves. It needs first aid and loving sympathetic connection. Not dismissal.

From your post I am reminded of the fact that it is worth continuing to search for those few who understand and WANT to be supportive.

Don't ever apologise for griping. This forum is the place to bring it. As many times as you need or want. You are, in many ways still a child whose parents used and abused and neglected you horribly. I commend you on the steps you have already taken and I thank you from the heart for posting this up. It has given me the courage to think of posting again myself.


Ziggiddy

Ziggiddy

[isilme]

clljhns and Ziggiddy,

Thank you both for replying.

I guess a big ting for me is wanting people to know this exists, to be aware that just because a child isn't showing bruises today, or makes it to school and can even do well in school, doesn't mean there aren't things they are facing at home. 

And yes, it comes in waves.  My birthday was just a couple of weeks ago, and the people I keep in my life were very nice, of course, but I find that I get really weepy when people are nice, and even co-workers singing happy birthday to me makes me want to cry.  It's not really a sad feeling as it is a melancholy feeling.  I think I will always have some mourning over what I perceive I missed in life as far as familial comfort, and when NON-family, people who have no real obligation or responsibility to be more than simply civil can do for me things my family can't/won't, it brings back some hurt.

I know that sounds strange, but it touches that hurt kid in me, and reminds me how rare I feel niceness is.  I'm not saying people are mean to me, friends, FI's family, or even coworkers.  It's just that in my mind they don't have any real reason to be nice, and they are, but the two people whose main job was to care for and nurture me were totally ill equipped to do so, and so even at 38, after almost 20 years of NC with Dad since he kicked me out (thought he stalked me), and on again off again NC with Mom since I was 15, that pain and loss still come back to me.

It's even more evident as I watch my friends with their own children, and see the interactions and how the kids aren't hiding from the adults or trying to be a little adult, how their parents seem to genuinely care for them, and the kiddos seem to be doing pretty well.  I see that what I lived with is not how most kids grow up.  And it's not the obvious stuff that is in my mind as the most damaging - yes, beatings are bad, being told to lie about bruises at school is bad.  But it's obvious, and everyone these days knows it happens and schools even swoop in TOO much, now, to try to stop it (I'm talking cases where parents are guilty until proven innocent, and branded with Scarlet Letters they might not deserve).

But a form of neglect where you have access to food, a roof and some sort of clothing is hard to explain.  And of course, it's not like everyday was a shouting match.  My dad can be a very charming person, so much so he works in PR.  My mom doesn't not seem to be a leech until you've known her long enough for her to feel safe letting the veil drop.  Some days, we WERE able to go out and about as a 'normal' family.  But overall, it was so unpredictable, I knew even on days that started well, I might end up trapped in a car where an explosive argument came form no where, and might be directed at me, or just happen in front of me.  The shifting alliances of them against me, me and mom against dad, dad and me against mom was so confusing and hard to recognize.  My feet were covered in eggshells.  I literally tried to be as quiet as possible at home, so no one would notice me, as attention was both craved and feared.  To this day, loud noises, like TVs and music in the house cause me anxiety, as I was not allowed to make noise.  Noise is bad.  And people talking loudly over it, also triggers me, as it reminds me of shouting. 

How can anyone understand that? 

Anyway, Thanks.  I feel like I've made some progress since my break through crisis, where I finally admitted to myself I had anger towards my parents, not just fear of them.  Posting on here helps a lot, when I can't feel I am understood by anyone save one friend whose father was even worse than mine, and she finally managed to get him put away for what he'd do to her.  I hate that she can understand me, because it means she's had things happen, too.  I just don't want to be told I'm selfish for being NC, or a bad daughter, or just mean.  I don't hate them, really.  I just can't be in contact with them and not get depressed, or fall into the old patterns. 

[Aquarius22]

I am sorry. I was the family scapegoat and still am. It isn't fun, but you can learn to live your life without letting your horrible past invade every day of your present and future too. Good luck.

[JeanSchimmel]

Hello isilme, I totally feel your pain. My childhood was somewhat similar to yours. I hid that most of my life. I can recall wanting to tell a teacher that I was scared to go home, but I never told. I remember honestly believing my Father might murder us during the night when we slept. I tried to be the perfect kid so it would make things better, but it never did. I didn't have many friends and the couple that I did, I never let them some over to my house and or be exposed to my parents.

When I have tried to open up and discuss my childhood I too have been met with reactions from people ranging from "we all had difficult families" or people who just ignored what I said (maybe they didn't know what to say). Just today I posted on FB about my Father. As today would have been his 90th birthday. I mentioned that I wanted to come out of the closet today and let you know that my father was very mentally sick, etc... .I mentioned that I wanted people to learn something about that; That sometimes children raised by mentally ill people don't always learn how to act "normal". You learn from what your exposed to. I was very disappointed that so few "friends" hit the like button and only one person commented on what was an tear laden message I admitted to my "friends". Maybe it makes people too uncomfortable to say something nice when you share the scary reality of your childhood? I don't know. Maybe that's why we hide our stories because we know we'll be met with rejection from the people we wanted just a little support from? I don't get it.

That's why I'm writing here on your thread. I want you to know that I understand you! I also want to commend you that somewhere along the way you did learn how to show love to your child.

[Sunfl0wer]

There is so much of this thread that I relate to.  I do not know where to start and wish I could better translate my thoughts and emotions about it to share in a most meaningful way.  I will do my best.

I am just not strong enough to maintain a boundary AND be in contact with her.

Sometimes it is not about "not strong enough."  Sometimes the right boundary is in fact, NC.  I am getting the sense that you are dealing with folks that do not respect the boundaries you try to set in their presence, hence the strong decision that needs to sometimes be made is that of NC being the boundary.

Lots of people on here have lived and are living in situations like this.  It’s not just the obvious beatings or self-esteem damaging put downs and mind games that you can see after a while.  It’s the other, not so easy to see instances of being told you were not important, and no one will help you but you that have hurt me.  In a way it also made me stronger, but I’s not want to have anyone made ‘stronger’ from the childhood and teen years I had, or the isolation from family I have now to try to stay healthy.

Since I was a young child, I have always wished that all I had to endure were physical beatings vs emotional abuse.  Not to minimize the affect of physical abuse at all.  However, what screwed with my minds reasoning and development was the insidious abuse that no one could see even happening right in front of them.  I recall being upset and feeling traumatized in my own mind for the emotional abuse.  I recall wishing she cracked my ribs or left bruises on my face instead.  I wished for a tangible outside proof for the pain that I felt inside of me, something a stranger could throw a turnicat on to put an end to my emotional bleeding.  Something that would make anyone stop and gasp and say, "this child is in pain, cannot be left, we must help her now!"

I don't want to upset people when I am honest, but am also tired of feeling the old family taboo of 'hide it all'

I hate to have to worry about "protecting" others from being upset or disturbed about my truth.  I hate the "hide it all" mentality.  Secrets marinate and help flourish toxicity and abuse.

And yes, it comes in waves.  My birthday was just a couple of weeks ago, and the people I keep in my life were very nice, of course, but I find that I get really weepy when people are nice, and even co-workers singing happy birthday to me makes me want to cry.  It's not really a sad feeling as it is a melancholy feeling.  I think I will always have some mourning over what I perceive I missed in life as far as familial comfort, and when NON-family, people who have no real obligation or responsibility to be more than simply civil can do for me things my family can't/won't, it brings back some hurt.

I completely relate.  You express this and all of it so well.  I feel that sadness wash over me when as an adult, I feel kindnesses and love that I realize I should have been familiar with since birth.  It should have been so basic and given to me freely, and now I cherish these moments with a longing for it towards my younger self that missed out on so much.

I literally tried to be as quiet as possible at home, so no one would notice me, as attention was both craved and feared.

This was me too.  Another person posted about PTSD subtypes and I found it interesting to read about responses to trauma.  Most of us know fight and flight, however, this one talked about "freeze."  I was glad to read about this because I hadn't heard it in that way before and it helped me understand a lot of how I "get stuck" and procrastinate and how it may appear like ADD.  It related it to those who had to be invisible for self protection to survive.

I hate that she can understand me, because it means she's had things happen, too.

Thank you for posting this.  I would never had the thought or words to open up in this manner.  Your words sound like they could be my own.  I think I am beginning to understand why some people from the leaving board are saying that the trauma they endured with their BPD SO is a gift.  A gift because it reopens those wounds buried and helps you to revisit and resurface parts of yourself that need more healing.

I am slowly getting it.  It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with me.  Thank you for helping me to take a moment to shift my focus on me.  I am neglecting myself, this is how I got here, to a place of loss over a r/s with uBPDex, through self neglect.  It's time to give myself the care and attention I deserve.

Thank you isilme!

[Panda39]

But a form of neglect where you have access to food, a roof and some sort of clothing is hard to explain.  And of course, it's not like everyday was a shouting match.  My dad can be a very charming person, so much so he works in PR.  My mom doesn't not seem to be a leech until you've known her long enough for her to feel safe letting the veil drop.

This is what is so incredibly difficult and frustrating about BPD... .that you have to be very close to see it.  The lies, the neglect and the abuse aren't seen, aren't believed, or aren't understood by the casual observer.