So you want to know how the HPD/BPD really feels? (Best Insight)

[jammo1989]

The following information was spoken by a self aware HPD/BPD, enjoy!

It all stems from the insecurity of the histrionic. I do not know if I still qualify for the label, after having therapy for what seems like forever. Maybe I will never be cured as such, but the therapy has enabled me to become aware of my inner workings, and gain some empathy towards others. In my daily life, people are now telling me that I am emphatic, and I believe this, for the most part, to be true, so maybe the worst parts of the disorder no longer affect my day to day functioning. If there is one thing I have learned throughout all of this, it is the way my mind has worked in the past, and could still work if I do not remain aware of my patterns.

The histrionic thought processes go something like this:

If others validate me, I am worthy. I am nothing without validation.

I do not have an identity or a personality of my own.

   

I must appear at all times to be pleasing to the senses of others. [Wow that is a good one! Not only must I prep to be pleasing to others, but I must be hypervigilent and be sure that I'm on target and actually am, in real-time, very pleasing to others. Unless they are demonstrably reacting to me very favorably, in away I can sense, I'm not feeling good. And BTW, my senses are very highly honed! They are tuned to amplify any negative vibe! Should my partner"twitch" or have a momentary thought / look / facial muscle move / etc. of anything like disgust, I'll be hypervigalent to that and assume "it's me" then run with that horrible feeling.]

   

If my partner does not pay me attention, he/she does not love me. If he/she does not love me, I am unworthy.

   

If I am unworthy and I perceive that my partner has made me feel this way, this is a catastrophe and reminds me of all of the painful dramas of my childhood.

   

It reinforces the pain I have buried for so long, that only finds expression in short bursts of dramatic but shallow emotion. It gets too painful to express, so I must bury it again and again.

   

If others pay me attention, then my partner is lacking in some way. This makes me feel better about myself. I must prove to him/her that I am worthy of attention.

   

If he/she gets jealous, it means they care about me. If he/she expresses pain because of this, then they are proving their love.

   

I have suffered and therefore he/she must suffer too.

   

If he/she is suffering, then they are vulnerable just like me and cannot therefore hurt me.

   

The rules that I have laid down only apply to my partner and not to me. This gives me control. If I have control I can cope.

   

He/she is not allowed to express an interest in others for this would reinforce my sense of low self esteem. I must not let them do this.

   

I express jealousy because I love my partner, although I do not really comprehend love. Therefore if they love me they also express it.

   

I cannot truly put myself in the position of others, because I have a distorted sense of self and so cannot possibly comprehend how others truly feel. I am out of touch with my own feelings, never mind the feelings of others.

   

I cannot feel remorse because I am unaware of the extent of the damage that I create, because I am also damaged.

   

My pain is all encompassing, even though I do not fully feel it or recognize it, and so my world consists of me, and only me.

   

This is a lonely state of affairs, but I do not know how to let others in. I am afraid.

   

I am a child in an adult's body.

   

Help me. I love you. I hate you. I hate myself because of the hatred I grew up with.

[BPDFamily]

This quote is posted in violation of the guidelines.  It is a message-board post from a person at another message-board.  The person does not represent themselves to have BPD, has not been diagnosed as HPD by her therapist (although she suspects it) and the quote was lifted without permission.

In general, at bpdfamily, we prefer to share clinical material.  Taking one person's summary of their feelings no more represents an entire group of people than taking a summary from one of us represents all "nons".

That said, reading these things with that limitation and perspective along with a sound clinical descriptions can be helpful.

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[hoaianhcameron]

I dont think my uBPDexbf realized he's a chile in an adult body though... .

[Bumpsintheroad]

I cannot truly put myself in the position of others, because I have a distorted sense of self and so cannot possibly comprehend how others truly feel. I am out of touch with my own feelings, never mind the feelings of others.

   

I cannot feel remorse because I am unaware of the extent of the damage that I create, because I am also damaged.

   

My pain is all encompassing, even though I do not fully feel it or recognize it, and so my world consists of me, and only me.

Jammo... .

Knowing that pwBPD/HPD suffer like this explains quite a bit.  Thanks for sharing.  

[mrwigand]

Thanks so much for sharing Jammo. This is truly really insightful and it makes me feel a little better to see someone diagnose the thought patterns so specifically.

[StarOfTheSea]

Wow.

Thanks for sharing that great insight. It shed some light on things my exBPDbf would do or say. For instance, his constant talking about other women in his life. He was getting 'attention' from them, so somehow I was lacking. Only it wasn't healthy attention that he was getting. I think this was also a ploy to make me jealous and I wouldn't take the bait, so in his mind if I didn't get jealous I didn't love him? Kinda makes me wonder what would have happened if I'd have played along with his game.

[fromheeltoheal]

Interesting jammo, it reads like the playbook for BPD, and HPD too I suppose, they are often comorbid, although it's unclear if someone who understands the disorder wrote it in first person, or someone with the disorder wrote it by parroting what they've been told, for example:

I HAVE A DISTORTED SENSE OF SELF AND SO CANNOT POSSIBLY COMPREHEND HOW OTHERS TRULY FEEL.

If you have a distorted sense of self and can't comprehend how others feel, how would you know you have a distorted sense of self without being told?  And if someone tells you, are you capable of accepting and understanding it, or do you just repeat the words?

MY PAIN IS ALL ENCOMPASSING, EVEN THOUGH I DO NOT FULLY FEEL IT OR RECOGNISE IT

Again, if your pain is all encompassing but you can't feel or recognize it, how do you know it's all encompassing without being told?  And then what do you do, start to feel it?

Anyway, reading something like that is validating for those of us who were on the receiving end of it, and thanks for posting, although it does raise questions about where it came from.

[LimboFL]

Very difficult to read, although fortunately it was spelled out in quite dry terms. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to live with that mind. How desperately horrible. I never had these details but I knew that my ex was dealing with torment, which is what kept my empathy meter running at 11.

It's all very sad indeed. We tried our very hardest to overcome but these thoughts were simply too powerful to get them to appreciate how much we loved them and how much we cared.

It's hard not to feel guilt but I can't allow myself to.

[jammo1989]

Anyway, reading something like that is validating for those of us who were on the receiving end of it ... //... although it does raise questions about where it came from.

Alright Heels, in reference to your post, the woman is a recovering hpd/BPD, shes still in therapy, but openly has said she will never get rid of the disorder but has been taught to become more self aware, so she knows what shes doing (thinks things through) where as the unaware who suffer from this disorder just follow the same trait of thought as a means of what they learned from childhood.  So in regards to the "How would she know"? a therapist has worked with her to achieve the self awareness to her own actions.    

[fromheeltoheal]

OK, fair enough, so take it one step further: if someone told you you have a distorted sense of self and can't comprehend how other people feel, what would you do with that information?  And how would accepting it make you feel?

[lbjnltx]

Some of what this individual shares rings true for how my daughter felt or believed about herself, some of it doesn't at all.

I think we need to look at people who are HSP/BPD as the individuals that they are.  If we look at only one persons beliefs and feelings and then try to apply them to all people who have the same disorders we are doing a disservice to our loved ones, ourselves, our understanding, and our relationships.

That is why we don't find people with BPD here posting from their perspective (unless they have been well vetted and recovered from BPD). 

We can learn about the disorder through the clinical information (that's why it's  here) and apply these basics to understanding the BPD/HSP in our lives and how their disorder affects them as an individual.

lbjnltx

[LimboFL]

Excellent point LBJ. I reflected a little more on reading the initial post and my ex was self aware. I believe had therapy but didn't follow through with it. I completely agree that it is wrong to assign one set of thoughts to all pwBPD because they are individuals. Granted that most end up doing the same hurtful things to partners and loved ones, but how they get there, I believe is different and their have to be nuances.

One time in  particular made me realize that my ex was self aware, she came to me one night, while my son was in the apartment and explained "I need you to know that my brain is telling me that I don't like your son right now, it's not something I have control over and I know that it's wrong but I can't help it"

The fact that she knew that it was happening meant that she was aware but it didn't change the fact that she couldn't do anything about it.

I can't even being to imagine.

It is always helpful to hear from someone with BPD, well it helps and it doesn't. We read their thoughts and place our faith in them, adding the veneer of therapy, but forget that we placed the same faith in our partners. We are all intelligent people who still got blindsided.

[jammo1989]

OK, fair enough, so take it one step further: if someone told you you have a distorted sense of self and can't comprehend how other people feel, what would you do with that information?  And how would accepting it make you feel?

Great question Heels, trying to keep up with your psychology knowledge here   maybe, just a thought, the therapy has helped her to look back on past relationships and how they were handled.  For example, burning bridges and cutting ties even though at times she may have felt they didn't deserve such treatment, or maybe she saw a pattern of negative and immature behavior on her behalf which then led to loved ones finally walking away from her, because at the time she probably didn't understand why others got fed up of her behavior and walked away.  I guess its all about teaching ones self how to manage the role of a healthy relationship, give and take, respect, trust and so forth, just my opinion there Heels.          

[fromheeltoheal]

Great question Heels, trying to keep up with your psychology knowledge here   maybe, just a thought, the therapy has helped her to look back on past relationships and how they were handled.  For example, burning bridges and cutting ties even though at times she may have felt they didn't deserve such treatment, or maybe she saw a pattern of negative and immature behavior on her behalf which then led to loved ones finally walking away from her, because at the time she probably didn't understand why others got fed up of her behavior and walked away.  I guess its all about teaching ones self how to manage the role of a healthy relationship, give and take, respect, trust and so forth, just my opinion there Heels.          

Yes, I agree with the intellectual understanding and how about the emotional one?  Borderlines (and maybe histrionics?) have a lot of shame, as we know, and limited ability to manage intense emotions, so if someone starts to realize and accept that they have a 'distorted' self, would that make them feel ashamed, and what do they do about that, can they begin to take responsibility for it, own it, learn DBT skills to lessen the emotional impact?  And it's a judgement really, a judgement about how we 'are', presented by someone in a position of power, someone who is supposed to know these things.  How does any of us deal with that kind of feedback?  I like the frame 'try it on like a coat, if it doesn't fit, take it off and try on another'.  Interesting to think about.

[apollotech]

Wow.

Thanks for sharing that great insight. It shed some light on things my exBPDbf would do or say. For instance, his constant talking about other women in his life. He was getting 'attention' from them, so somehow I was lacking. Only it wasn't healthy attention that he was getting. I think this was also a ploy to make me jealous and I wouldn't take the bait, so in his mind if I didn't get jealous I didn't love him? Kinda makes me wonder what would have happened if I'd have played along with his game.

Star,

I was flat out told by my BPDexg that if I was not jealous of her male friends, orbiters, that was indicative of my not loving her (notice that the reason for having male orbiters is subtlety placed on me). Like you, I didn't take the bait. I really didn't feel like doing junior high again.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think this was also a ploy to make me jealous and I wouldn't take the bait, so in his mind if I didn't get jealous I didn't love him? Kinda makes me wonder what would have happened if I'd have played along with his game.

I was flat out told by my BPDexg that if I was not jealous of her male friends, orbiters, that was indicative of my not loving her

Think attachments with borderlines, and the constant fear of losing them, abandonment.  If we do something as simple and appropriate as settling into a relationship after the honeymoon ends, that can be interpreted as impending abandonment by a borderline, since 'settling in' lacks the intensity of the honeymoon and the contrast is noticed, so hey, you must be about to leave.  So mentioning other potential suitors is a way, a weak way, to test the attachment, and if you go into a jealous tizzy over it, an attachment is still in place.  Good for you guys for not taking the bait, although you also failed the attachment test, and abandonment fears probably showed up, along with the corresponding behaviors.

Trying to make you jealous may be the lesser of two evils though; my ex didn't try to make me jealous of other men, she just screwed them behind my back.  Take your pick.

It's a good test for us though; jealousy is a sign of insecurity, and if we're confident enough in ourselves and own our value, we won't get jealous, and the fact that someone tried to cause us to feel jealous will be a turn-off because it's weak.  I've been on both sides of that drama more than once, and of course another option is we don't get jealous because we just don't care anymore, no healthy relationship there either.  An upgrade would include open, honest communication with both partners focusing on the other's needs; what a concept!  Upgrade anyone?

[apollotech]

"So mentioning other potential suitors is a way, a weak way, to test the attachment, and if you go into a jealous tizzy over it, an attachment is still in place.  Good for you guys for not taking the bait, although you also failed the attachment test, and abandonment fears probably showed up, along with the corresponding behaviors.

Trying to make you jealous may be the lesser of two evils though; my ex didn't try to make me jealous of other men, she just screwed them behind my back.  Take your pick."

FHTH,

I was not educated enough at the time to know how to respond properly (from the pwBPD's point of view) to said test. Even now, partially educated, my response would be the same.

Oh, I received the best of both worlds, attachment testing AND infidelity.

[fromheeltoheal]

"So mentioning other potential suitors is a way, a weak way, to test the attachment, and if you go into a jealous tizzy over it, an attachment is still in place.  Good for you guys for not taking the bait, although you also failed the attachment test, and abandonment fears probably showed up, along with the corresponding behaviors.

Trying to make you jealous may be the lesser of two evils though; my ex didn't try to make me jealous of other men, she just screwed them behind my back.  Take your pick."

FHTH,

I was not educated enough at the time to know how to respond properly (from the pwBPD's point of view) to said test. Even now, partially educated, my response would be the same.

Oh, I received the best of both worlds, attachment testing AND infidelity.

Good move apollo.  The other option might be to go into a jealous rage to convince her you're attached, and no thank you.  The more we learn about the disorder the more leaving seems like the only option, preaching to the choir here on the leaving board.

Sorry about the testing and the screwing around, and it's important to cut ourselves some slack, since as you mention, we didn't know what we didn't know then.  Take care of you!

[BorisAcusio]

"So mentioning other potential suitors is a way, a weak way, to test the attachment, and if you go into a jealous tizzy over it, an attachment is still in place.  Good for you guys for not taking the bait, although you also failed the attachment test, and abandonment fears probably showed up, along with the corresponding behaviors.

Trying to make you jealous may be the lesser of two evils though; my ex didn't try to make me jealous of other men, she just screwed them behind my back.  Take your pick."

FHTH,

I was not educated enough at the time to know how to respond properly (from the pwBPD's point of view) to said test. Even now, partially educated, my response would be the same.

Oh, I received the best of both worlds, attachment testing AND infidelity.

There is no amount of education that would prepare someone to *properly* deal with underlying disordered thinking pattern and the emotional volatility.

[Skip]

... .the woman is a recovering hpd/BPD, shes still in therapy, but openly has said she will never get rid of the disorder but has been taught to become more self aware, so she knows what shes doing (thinks things through) where as the unaware who suffer from this disorder just follow the same trait of thought as a means of what they learned from childhood.  So in regards to the "How would she know"? a therapist has worked with her to achieve the self awareness to her own actions.    

Jammo,

You simply don't know any of this - this individual has represented herself as HPD (undiagnosed) not BPD/HPD. Its really inappropriate to take on the role as her spokesman and represent her words as anything other than a person in therapy trying to make sense of how they see the world.  She is trying to find answers - bless her heart - just like we all are.  And like all of us, how we view ourselves changes as we work through the process.

You and I have talked in other threads about how you are hiding behind this BPD/HPD concept you are selling so hard (only 10% of people with BPD traits also have HPD traits) and completely skipping past the broken foundation upon which you entered the relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61196.msg578092#msg578092

As you have said many times, you entered into a relationship for sex. When you describe the relationship, you generally only describe the sex.  You have described how would accept just about anything in the relationship in exchange for sex.  And what you miss is the sex.

This is not a BPD/HPD matter - it's a matter in your own house.

Get it on the table, man.  You have analyzed her for a very long time.  Start doing the personal inventory.  You don't have to completely focus on yourself, but you need to invest some time there.