A hug stirred up many thoughts for me.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey guys, I had a moment yesterday that I feel was supposed to be a learning moment for me so I'm posting here in order to get more thoughts about it, if you can share back.  

_{Background:  There is a guy that I bump into at work once every other week or so.  Whenever we see one another we do extend a special warm genuine hello and sometime take a moment to touch bases briefly.  I honestly felt comfortable being slightly warmer with him than most casual workplace males because I thought he was likely gay and therefore he would not get the wrong idea.  Umm, I think he is actually not gay now, as in Feb he wanted to know my V day plans and suggested we do lunch. (Not typical at my work environment)}

What happened:  Yesterday, I was feeling down, and when I saw him, I was extending him a quirky smile and waving at him hello from behind a gal who happened to be right in front of me.  (My demeanor pretty much said, this will be a quick see ya next time hello). Well, he went out of his way, kind of looked impulsive about it, went around the gal I had in front of me, put himself in between us both, and gave me the most random, biggest, tightest hug ever.  It lasted quite long too!

<sub>It was unusual for my workplace, I would never initiate that much affection at work.  I would do a quick friendly hug, but not one that warm.

It felt so good, so I needed, and I have spent some time thinking about that moment.  Thinking about what it meant for me.</sub>

My Thoughts:

1.     The residue feelings I was left with were longing, wanting.  Wanting physical and emotional affection and connection.  I realize these desires are MINE and are strong and that they lie within me and do not need to be connected to my ex.   My longings, my feelings of missing my ex have a lot more to do with ME and what I want and need vs HIM and the loss of HIM.  I understood this intellectually before, but now I am grasping it emotionally as well.  I wonder, how much of my loss is ME vs a loss of HIM?  How does one begin to sort that out?

2. This guy seemed harmless enough, he always does.  :)id he in fact cross a workplace boundary?  :)id he see a look of vulnerability in me and exploit that by knowing I would melt in his arms?  Is this how another codependent enmeshed r/s starts?

(Don't get me wrong, I will NOT be further engaging him, I will be dealing with him as a coworker person only, even putting a bit more distance now. I can clearly feel my desire for him is to fill this longing I have which is independent of him.)

3. I feel frustrated, again, this is about me and not my ex.  I feel like I deserve to be nurtured, cared for, loved.  I feel sad that this has been missing a great deal of my childhood.  I want this BACK, but I never had it so I guess I want it CORRECTED.  I can FEEL how I am trying to "fix" myself by receiving affection from another.  How do I remedy this for real?  How do I love myself enough to feel satiated?

Thank you for listening guys!

[billypilgrim]

Here's some of my thoughts on this.

1.) I think there comes a point in every recovery from a relationship that you realize that longing feeling is more about you than your ex.  I think this is intensified with BPD relationships seeing as everything else with these people is intense.  For instance, when I look at how I'm feeling at 5 months out from a 6 year relationship, I definitely have feelings of loneliness and I long for a partner.  What I don't long for is my ex.  What I don't miss is my ex.  So those feelings of loneliness and longing belong to me and are about me, not her. 

2.) It's tough to say - instead of worrying about whether or not he crossed a workplace boundary, ask yourself if he crossed one of YOUR boundaries.  If he did, try to reinforce your boundaries to him should he try to do that again.  It does sounds as though you think he did cross some sort of boundary, you may need to decide if you aren't ok with this at the workplace or if you aren't ok with it for you.

3.) This bit hit home with me.  I've been playing the "you owe it to me universe" game for a few months now.  I want the roles reversed.  I'm done with being the caretaker and I want someone to actually take care of me.  Or at least that's what I feel like I want sometimes.  However, I KNOW that that's not a healthy way to go about being in a relationship - all that would do is switch the roles of my last relationship.  And look how well that turned out. 

As for how to get there, I'm right there with you.  For starters, I've been doing a lot more for me.  I've found my interests and some of my long lost passions again.  I've dug up all those things I buried in order to make time for life with a pwBPD.  But I think the biggest thing that needs to happen is a rewiring of how I think about and navigate through life.  I've got a lot of maladapted thought processes that stem from my childhood - irrational beliefs, as my T calls them - that keep me from getting out of my cycle of needing to be needed, not being able to make a mistake, feeling as though I've failed, etc. etc.  I do know that I need to be a lot easier on myself.  So I've started there.

[LimboFL]

Sunflower,

I agree with some of billy's thoughts but I think we do an injustice to the relationship by not admitting that it DOES have to do, in part, with the pwBPD that we were with. Whatever underlying issues I may have, I fell in love with my ex. Part of it was FOG but most of us were in these relationships for a considerable amount of time and most of us had partners who had beautiful and kind moments. I believe that far too much emphasis is placed on idealization and love bombing as the root cause for our having fallen in love with our SO's. There have been discussion with some that dig deeper into this.

There is a tendency to make them out as programmed robots. They aren't. They are flesh and blood and, those of us that spent two or more years, especially if there was co-habitation, saw the real people. Those vulnerabilities they showed were real, those fears they showed were real. Very little of what our SO's did was calculated or planned. Those of us who loved, did so exactly because we looked and saw much further than what was under the surface. I have mentioned this before, but besides the I love you's, the moment that sunk me back into a position of extreme content was when my ex said "I feel safe with you". That feeling of safety and calm, allowed her to on occasion completely be herself. It didn't last, but I saw it.

While I understand the warmth that might comes from a hug from someone else, truth is that, while like billy too many of my conditional boundaries were crossed in the end, what I yearn for is a hug from her. There are no two ways around it. A hug from, even a friend, is nice and comforting but it doesn't quench the thirst for the person we fell in love with, no matter how much we know that it would lead to chaos and misery. The human mind, fortunately, has a way of pushing us to only look at the positive, which is why a Mother will have more children after the first. There is a reason that no contact is also used for people who want to try and win their partners back.

I had a period where my windshield wipers weren't working and I live in Miami, it rains a lot. I had to ride for three weeks while waiting for the part. My ex called me at least 3 times a week saying that she was worried about me driving in the rain. That wasn't a stranger, that was my ex and she loved me and was worried. She is who I miss. She is who I have to push out of my head. I do this by continuously reminding myself of the red flags and the negatives that she brought to my life. It is a tug of war where the good keeps trying to invade.

Maybe that is just me. Again, I can completely understand the benefits of a hug from someone from the opposite sex, especially when it almost seems like it came from a place of compassion. In my view, I wouldn't make too much of it. If it was just a strong hug and there was no inappropriate touching, then maybe your co-worker sensed something, maybe he sensed your heavy heart. I like to give solid hugs because there is nothing worse, in my opinion, then flimsy half committed hugs. I would let it completely slide and just see how your co-worker is the next time you see him. It could have been completely innocent and, from the sound of things, it might have been something you needed, albeit from a completely unexpected place. Should he try to repeat it or ask for your personal number or whatever, just tell him that you are still processing a very difficult break up. Again, it could have been completely innocent. Maybe he crossed the line but maybe he didn't intend to. The best way to handle it is to see how the next work days roll out.

We are processing so much right now. It is a blessing and a burden that we discovered BPD. If we had just written it off as them leaving us, because they were done, it wouldn't have hurt any less but it also wouldn't have had us on this hyper long quest to understand the nuances of BPD. It puts us in this twister of almost feeling like our own minds are disordered. How did we not see this or that. My divorce from my 20 year relationship with my ex wife was not this mind bending. After the anger I realized that we were different people in the end. There was no questioning why.

Bottom line, while there is a component to our suffering that has to do with feeling alone and missing a partner to hug, kiss, hold hands with, cuddle with, I don't think that it is wise to disregard the love we had for our partners, as people, not as pwBPD. They are flesh and blood and they did, not sufficiently, love and care for us. They didn't stay for the years most of us shared with them because they didn't have other options, right? They stayed because they did love us and we loved them.

[Sunfl0wer]

2.) It's tough to say - instead of worrying about whether or not he crossed a workplace boundary, ask yourself if he crossed one of YOUR boundaries.  If he did, try to reinforce your boundaries to him should he try to do that again.  It does sounds as though you think he did cross some sort of boundary, you may need to decide if you aren't ok with this at the workplace or if you aren't ok with it for you.

I mentioned the idea that he crossed a workplace boundary just because I will now be on alert and analyzing how the people around me respect and uphold boundaries.

I am ok with his behavior (I don't think him "bad", I'm actually not concerned about it other than it provokes me to look at my surroundings and then realize and be intentional about my response to what is happening.  I am not ok with appearing non professional, I am also not ok with promoting an escalation of affection with him, therefore, I will put a bit of distance for him to hear that message.

As for how to get there, I'm right there with you.  For starters, I've been doing a lot more for me.  I've found my interests and some of my long lost passions again.  I've dug up all those things I buried in order to make time for life with a pwBPD.  But I think the biggest thing that needs to happen is a rewiring of how I think about and navigate through life.  I've got a lot of maladapted thought processes that stem from my childhood - irrational beliefs, as my T calls them - that keep me from getting out of my cycle of needing to be needed, not being able to make a mistake, feeling as though I've failed, etc. etc.  I do know that I need to be a lot easier on myself.  So I've started there.

Thank you for your honesty.  I like the idea of rewiring, yes very important.  Thank you

[Sunfl0wer]

LimboFL,

I agree with some of billy's thoughts but I think we do an injustice to the relationship by not admitting that it DOES have to do, in part, with the pwBPD that we were with.

I hear you on this one, and it does require some more thought on my part.  I tend to prefer the thought that my experience is more about me.  I am the one that I can change, I am the one responsible for my experiences.  However, I also feel that both parties are responsible for a relationship and what happens in that relationship is not the result of just one person.

Even if I do "blame" my ex more than I currently do, then I will have to equally blame myself for not seeing it or for me accepting it.  So I end up back to where I was again.

I did read yesterday a post where someone explained how when our mind is not disordered and we are trying to make sense of this disorder, and trying to process their cognitive distortions, it removes us from our logical ways in our efforts to make sense of things.

I can see how I have been influenced in this way and at times have lost sense of myself.

There is a reason that no contact is also used for people who want to try and win their partners back.

Yes, I am understanding this as I feel my own push/pull without him around.

You explain that feeling well:

I had a period where my windshield wipers weren't working and I live in Miami, it rains a lot. I had to ride for three weeks while waiting for the part. My ex called me at least 3 times a week saying that she was worried about me driving in the rain. That wasn't a stranger, that was my ex and she loved me and was worried. She is who I miss. She is who I have to push out of my head. I do this by continuously reminding myself of the red flags and the negatives that she brought to my life. It is a tug of war where the good keeps trying to invade.

In my view, I wouldn't make too much of it. If it was just a strong hug and there was no inappropriate touching, then maybe your co-worker sensed something, maybe he sensed your heavy heart.

I am not making too much of it in the sense that I'm worried he did anything wrong. I didn't feel unsafe. I am certain he sensed my heavy heart, he was being compassionate and caring. I am however, acutely aware of my emotional experiences and wanting to be fully present to guide them, to "rewire" myself in the healthiest manner. Part of me would love for the real world of work and other complications to disappear and not exist, give caution to the wind, and have him take me right there, !  Maybe that is what sets us apart from our BPD partners, we have the ability to reason on these things and inhibit desires and make better meaning of the experience.

They didn't stay for the years most of us shared with them because they didn't have other options, right? They stayed because they did love us and we loved them.

I have trouble with this.  Our MC says he loves me, however, I wonder.  Sometimes I wonder if his capacity was just to be in love with the love I gave him and not ME.  I am not convinced he loved ME.  I am not convinced he could often see ME.  I am open to this as a possibility, it is just not a certainty for me.

[Grey Kitty]

You would do well to simply acknowledge how much you may well be hungry to be touched and held right now.

If you simply WANT that and really feel powerful LONGING for it, those feelings exist, and aren't either good or bad--they are real, and they are as strong as they are. You may not feel the same way tomorrow, or perhaps you will.


What you do with those feelings is different. If this person just works with you, not too much on a daily basis, and not as a boss or reporting to you, then this could be a little complicated, but is probably OK to explore if you are interested in the person.


If you do decide to get closer to somebody... .you don't sound quite over your last relationship... .and you can manage that too. I'd be pretty clear with anybody you date that you aren't ready for a serious relationship, but are open to fun and companionship only (without any commitment) right now. As long as you are honest about your intentions, you are being very fair with anybody you get involved with, as they know what the terms are. A healthy short-term, low-impact rebound relationship may be just the thing you need. Or not. You get to choose

[Sunfl0wer]

You would do well to simply acknowledge how much you may well be hungry to be touched and held right now.

Yup!  Hard for me to admit!  But true!  I guess a lot of this is missing _{my ex's} physical intimacy

I guess I have some hang ups about intimacy that it would be good for me to sort out.

Even the fact that I'm using silly emoticons for this topic is revealing.

If you do decide to get closer to somebody... .you don't sound quite over your last relationship... .and you can manage that too. I'd be pretty clear with anybody you date that you aren't ready for a serious relationship, but are open to fun and companionship only (without any commitment) right now. As long as you are honest about your intentions, you are being very fair with anybody you get involved with, as they know what the terms are.

  Thank you for the wise advice!

A healthy short-term, low-impact rebound relationship may be just the thing you need. Or not. You get to choose

  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  It seems "bad," therefore I know that is something I need to explore where this "bad" feeling comes from.

[Grey Kitty]

This whole topic kinda hits me close to home. I've been separated from my wife for five months... .and I'm living in an area that is remote, and don't have any local friends. It is a 'temporary' place for me, but I've already been here for around a year out of the last two years, and expect to leave soon anyhow. I *KNOW* I am very lonely and hungry for physical touch and contact. I'd also like some sort of relationship--I'm not sure I'm quite ready... .and even if I was, I don't want to start one while I'm here and about to leave... .anyhow... .back to your issue(s)

I brought up a short term relationship... .or a fling... .or if you go farther in that direction, a hookup or casual sex as something to think about, not a recommendation.  Yes, you mentioned the urge/desire yourself, before acknowledging that it would be a bad impulse to act on:

Part of me would love for the real world of work and other complications to disappear and not exist, give caution to the wind, and have him take me right there, !

The main reason I suggested it was that your leftover feelings about your ex are going to make a mess of any long term relationship you start today... .but even if you take that off the table, there are a lot of possibilities.

A healthy short-term, low-impact rebound relationship may be just the thing you need. Or not. You get to choose

  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  It seems "bad," therefore I know that is something I need to explore where this "bad" feeling comes from.

Yes, figuring out what feels "bad" is important. It might be some old baggage you want to leave behind. It might be that this would go against values that are fundamental to you. It might be that this is the uncomfortable feeling you have when you consider something you've never done before.

I'm encouraging you to make a choice that feels right for you--I've got no idea what that choice would be.

And if you are hungry to be touched and held, as a dear friend of mine likes to say, "Consider *ALL* the possibilities."

Maybe non-sexual touching will fulfill something you need. Get a massage. A friend of mine is utterly in love with the Chinese foot massages she can get, and they are remarkably cheap.

Ask a girlfriend for a long hug, admitting you need to be touched and miss it. (I'm assuming you are straight and so is the friend you ask.)

Or see if you can spend some quality time with a friendly dog or cat. If you don't want the full-time commitment of a pet, there are a lot of shelters that need temporary homes for rescued pets.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm encouraging you to make a choice that feels right for you--I've got no idea what that choice would be.

And if you are hungry to be touched and held, as a dear friend of mine likes to say, "Consider *ALL* the possibilities."

Thanks Grey Kitty,  I think I heard you right, I appreciate you sharing with me different possibilities.

I am not sure what all of my feelings are about these things, but definitely something for me to think on.

Umm... nope, a cat or girlfriend is NOT gonna cut it!   !  But I get your point!

[Eco]

One thing I realized that helped me was that while I did miss my ex I missed the idea of the relationship the most. funny thing is, I tend to pick women that are emotionally distant and have issues with commitment so I end up on a hamster wheel chasing something they cant give.

I loved being married or in a committed relationship, I love being there for someone and having someone there for me, the closeness it brings. so while I did miss parts of my ex, a healthy relationship is what I miss the most.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yes  Eco, true here too

[jhkbuzz]

My Thoughts:

1.     The residue feelings I was left with were longing, wanting.  Wanting physical and emotional affection and connection.  I realize these desires are MINE and are strong and that they lie within me and do not need to be connected to my ex.   My longings, my feelings of missing my ex have a lot more to do with ME and what I want and need vs HIM and the loss of HIM.  I understood this intellectually before, but now I am grasping it emotionally as well.

That ^ is a really important realization - I remember when I began to grasp this as well.  It's the beginning of understanding that all your longings are not actually connected to the person who is your ex.

It is a freeing thought. I felt like this is where my healing started to begin.

[talithacumi]

In the immediate wake of the sudden, very confusing, and emotionally brutal wake of the breakup with my exBPD of 12+ years, I was deeply effected by any gesture of real interest, caring, or concern I got from family, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, or even strangers on the street.

I, too, felt I was over-reacting out of my own grief and/or loneliness and/or suppressed desire to throw myself willy-nilly into whatever new relationship that might come my way.

But ... .over time ... .I've come to see how I felt as a clear indicator of just how little value/worth I'd always very genuinely believed I had as a human being outside of my usefulness (i.e. attractiveness) to other people in general (thanks, mom ... .). What I was reacting to when people noticed I was hurt/suffering, and said/did something to try to make me feel better - when others were trying to fix/rescue/take care of me - was my own false belief that what I felt didn't matter and, therefore, wasn't something anyone should notice, let alone try to do anything about - that I simply wasn't worth that kind of effort - and having someone treat me like I was just felt wrong somehow.

Very unsettling. Very confusing.

After what you've been through, I'm sure you could really use that big gesture of concern/super squeezy hug you got. More importantly - regardless of how or why your breakup happened - regardless of any of the really horrible things that have been said/done by one, the other, or both of you since then - you also DESERVED that hug as well.

You are of exceptional value/worth. You are worth caring for, and caring about. If nothing else, maybe that hug you got can serve as the reminder you might need that you not only are all those things, but that you're actually seen/understood by others as being all those things as well.





P

[Sunfl0wer]

Wow, thank you guys for understanding me before I can... .so interesting.

It's the beginning of understanding that all your longings are not actually connected to the person who is your ex.

It is a freeing thought. I felt like this is where my healing started to begin.

talithacumi, that was so hard for me to read.  I felt terrible reading it, terrible for your experience, then... .overlapping my compassion for you, I realized you are also talking about me, and was allowed to heal a small wound, and feel compassion for me.  I am beyond proper words.

Thank you isn't enough tonight.

[Sunfl0wer]

usefulness

Oh, and on the word "usefulness."  This came up in my thoughts today. I made a connection somewhere necessary.  I made the connection to the word usefulness.

That is what brought me to this man.  Usefulness is the foundation that I built my r/s with him on.

So bizarre to me to read this tonight... .I just had those thoughts earlier today... .and they got suppressed as I was working... .and here they are again.

I realize all those wonderful self sacrificing actions that I did in those first years... .and throughout... .was about me needing to always first feel useful.  I was raised with the mentality of "earning my keep" where I was.   I mean, I do believe that, in the r/s that I envision that is a healthy thriving one, yes, both of us will make sacrifices, and I may take similar actions, even the same actions of self sacrifice.  However, I will do so from a different perspective.

I know I didn't take that thought all the way... .

The rest is at the tip of my mind just sitting there.

[jhkbuzz]

I'm encouraging you to make a choice that feels right for you--I've got no idea what that choice would be.

And if you are hungry to be touched and held, as a dear friend of mine likes to say, "Consider *ALL* the possibilities."

Thanks Grey Kitty,  I think I heard you right, I appreciate you sharing with me different possibilities.

I am not sure what all of my feelings are about these things, but definitely something for me to think on.

Umm... nope, a cat or girlfriend is NOT gonna cut it!   !  But I get your point!

Grey Kitty gives good advice, as always.

I've thought a lot about the "rebound" r/s; the more "casual" r/s possibilities.  I've ultimately decided that, even though I miss human touch, they're not for me because that behavior goes against my values.  I'm no angel, but I know that going against my values always causes me pain - so I avoid that path.

Until I feel ready for a more committed r/s, dating - without sex - is the path for me.  But it took me some time to make that decision.

[jhkbuzz]

Wow, thank you guys for understanding me before I can... .so interesting.

It's the beginning of understanding that all your longings are not actually connected to the person who is your ex.

It is a freeing thought. I felt like this is where my healing started to begin.

talithacumi, that was so hard for me to read.  I felt terrible reading it, terrible for your experience, then... .overlapping my compassion for you, I realized you are also talking about me, and was allowed to heal a small wound, and feel compassion for me.  I am beyond proper words.

Thank you isn't enough tonight.

hahahaha... .that was ME, Sunfl0wer!