NC day 1 completed AGAIN (advice/input appreciated)

[mitatsu]

Infern0,

Im right there with you bro.  Im at 2 weeks of radio silence from my BPDgf myself.  This time i told myself that i refuse to contact her.  She is used to me chasing her even when she is the one who caused the issue to begin with.  Our latest soap opera began when she told me she was too tired to come over after we made plans to meet up. Keep in mind i drive to her  place 95% of the time.  I told her no problem get some rest and we could meet up the next day.  Next day rolls around and she goes off on how everything is bad in life including me and that she will contact me later in the week.  I told her i was sorry she felt bad.  I asked if i could help at all.  She said no... .just give her space.  I did.

5 days later i get a text telling me she is moving on from me along with a bunch of reasons why i am horrible.  So... .it went from i love you and want to come see you to i hate you and never want to see you in about 6 days.  This cycle has been going on for almost 4 years.

But... .this time... .i refuse to chase her.  It only perpetuates her bad behavior and makes me feel like crap if i chase her.  Im looking to the right of this text box and see ":)etachment leads to Freedom"... .oh how true!

When we are severely mistreated (most times repeatedly), and we still pursue the person who is mistreating us,  we are sending a message to that person.  The message we are sending is this: ":)o anything that you want to me, act any way that you want, I don't care and I will still be here for you and love you."

That is seriously OUR/My problem. Entirely.

I needed help and I had to disengage 100% and find help.

If I didn't there was plenty more pain for me, with her or someone else just like her. It is soo, soo obvious to me now (I went and got help). It was not obvious to me then.

Agreed theres a fine line between being a good person and a doormat... .i kept choosing the later thinking i was the former 

[Infared]

Infern0,

Im right there with you bro.  Im at 2 weeks of radio silence from my BPDgf myself.  This time i told myself that i refuse to contact her.  She is used to me chasing her even when she is the one who caused the issue to begin with.  Our latest soap opera began when she told me she was too tired to come over after we made plans to meet up. Keep in mind i drive to her  place 95% of the time.  I told her no problem get some rest and we could meet up the next day.  Next day rolls around and she goes off on how everything is bad in life including me and that she will contact me later in the week.  I told her i was sorry she felt bad.  I asked if i could help at all.  She said no... .just give her space.  I did.

5 days later i get a text telling me she is moving on from me along with a bunch of reasons why i am horrible.  So... .it went from i love you and want to come see you to i hate you and never want to see you in about 6 days.  This cycle has been going on for almost 4 years.

But... .this time... .i refuse to chase her.  It only perpetuates her bad behavior and makes me feel like crap if i chase her.  Im looking to the right of this text box and see ":)etachment leads to Freedom"... .oh how true!

When we are severely mistreated (most times repeatedly), and we still pursue the person who is mistreating us,  we are sending a message to that person.  The message we are sending is this: ":)o anything that you want to me, act any way that you want, I don't care and I will still be here for you and love you."

That is seriously OUR/My problem. Entirely.

I needed help and I had to disengage 100% and find help.

If I didn't there was plenty more pain for me, with her or someone else just like her. It is soo, soo obvious to me now (I went and got help). It was not obvious to me then.

Agreed theres a fine line between being a good person and a doormat... .i kept choosing the later thinking i was the former 

Me, too.

... .I found out that I could change... .it's hard work, but possible.

[Grey Kitty]

Well its finally over.

She came to see me which was a surprise actually as I thought she'd try to put it off.

We had a civil conversation,  but she was still saying she's not ready,  doesn't know what she wants etc.

I told her that this had to end and she agreed and said she will probably regret it but she can't keep me waiting anymore. She said her feelings for me are real but she's confused and not ready etc.

She's not giving you good and clear closure. She's confused, and giving you a mixed message. Time for a little more radical acceptance on that final aspect of your r/s with her.

She couldn't be clearly and consistently IN the relationship with you.

Now she can't be clearly and consistently OUT of the relationship either.

If you are ready to move on and end this relationship, you will need some closure to do so. The only person who is going to give that to you is yourself. Breakups with more healthy/normal women usually include some help on the closure at the end. Don't expect it from her.

When you decide that you aren't going to be in a romantic r/s with her, it is your job to figure out how to let your heart catch up with where your head is.

In other words... .it is finally over when YOU make it be finally over.

[Infared]

Well its finally over.

She came to see me which was a surprise actually as I thought she'd try to put it off.

We had a civil conversation,  but she was still saying she's not ready,  doesn't know what she wants etc.

I told her that this had to end and she agreed and said she will probably regret it but she can't keep me waiting anymore. She said her feelings for me are real but she's confused and not ready etc.

She's not giving you good and clear closure. She's confused, and giving you a mixed message. Time for a little more radical acceptance on that final aspect of your r/s with her.

She couldn't be clearly and consistently IN the relationship with you.

Now she can't be clearly and consistently OUT of the relationship either.

If you are ready to move on and end this relationship, you will need some closure to do so. The only person who is going to give that to you is yourself. Breakups with more healthy/normal women usually include some help on the closure at the end. Don't expect it from her.

When you decide that you aren't going to be in a romantic r/s with her, it is your job to figure out how to let your heart catch up with where your head is.

In other words... .it is finally over when YOU make it be finally over.

Amen.  Tough, painful lesson to learn... .its NEVER over for them even though they may be living with someone else.  

I had to put on my Big-Boy pants and erect a VERY solid boundary called NC.   Then I could collect myself, and sort out the hell I had just been through.

Phew.

[Infern0]

It's hard to go hard NC (i.e not responding ) when this time to be honest she hasn't really done anything bad to me.

It's hurting me because she's indecisive but it's not like she's dumped me or cheated on me,  just she's confused but I can't take it anymore.

Some on the staying boards have worked through this kind of thing with validation and other tools but I don't even know where to start and my head is so fogged I just don't know.

When I've ignored her in the past she's had panic attacks and stuff like that which I hate the idea of causing that when I could just say hi.

Why does this have to be so hard?

[Infared]

It's hard to go hard NC (i.e not responding ) when this time to be honest she hasn't really done anything bad to me.

It's hurting me because she's indecisive but it's not like she's dumped me or cheated on me,  just she's confused but I can't take it anymore.

Some on the staying boards have worked through this kind of thing with validation and other tools but I don't even know where to start and my head is so fogged I just don't know.

When I've ignored her in the past she's had panic attacks and stuff like that which I hate the idea of causing that when I could just say hi.

Why does this have to be so hard?

The whole situation sounds like it is torturing you.  You want a committed partner, who shows up, consistently and contributes to your life... .

You are definitely not getting that here.  Be it mental illness or just craziness... .you will have no serenity until you get away from it... .I get it.  Someone else out there can most likely give you what you are looking for... .this person cannot.   My situation was much more abusive.   ... .but in the the end... .its all the same.  I don't think that they know how to be friends... .there is ALWAYS some manipulation or drama going on... .They are not capable of knowing what friendship is and able to keep those boundaries, either... .Right?

[Grey Kitty]

It isn't whether you go NC with her or not.

It is whether you end the relationship with her or not.

You sound like your head is DONE with this... .and your heart is still confused.

The first decision you have to make is do you want to pursue this confusing push-pull romantic relationship with her or not. It isn't an easy decision. Be gentle and kind with yourself--it is OK to take some time thinking... .it is OK to make up your mind... .then decide that you can't live that way and change your mind. Give yourself some time and space to get as comfortable with your decision as you can.

... .then look at your next choices, which only make sense AFTER you are sure of your decision. [I'm going to explore the 'leave' decision since that is which board you are posting on]

Once you decide you are done with the romantic r/s, you have other choices:

1. Do you want to try to be 'friends' with her. (This is a tough one--if you do, she will continue the push-pull games and test your boundaries as a friend. But it might be worth it for you)

2. Do you want to remain LC / distant friends / acquaintances with her?

3. Do you want to give yourself some time to heal and grieve the end of the romantic relationship? If so, the less contact you have during this time, the easier it will be.

After you have figured out what YOU want... .then it is time to start thinking also about what the kindest thing you can do for her is.

[Infern0]

It isn't whether you go NC with her or not.

It is whether you end the relationship with her or not.

You sound like your head is DONE with this... .and your heart is still confused.

The first decision you have to make is do you want to pursue this confusing push-pull romantic relationship with her or not. It isn't an easy decision. Be gentle and kind with yourself--it is OK to take some time thinking... .it is OK to make up your mind... .then decide that you can't live that way and change your mind. Give yourself some time and space to get as comfortable with your decision as you can.

... .then look at your next choices, which only make sense AFTER you are sure of your decision. [I'm going to explore the 'leave' decision since that is which board you are posting on]

Once you decide you are done with the romantic r/s, you have other choices:

1. Do you want to try to be 'friends' with her. (This is a tough one--if you do, she will continue the push-pull games and test your boundaries as a friend. But it might be worth it for you)

2. Do you want to remain LC / distant friends / acquaintances with her?

3. Do you want to give yourself some time to heal and grieve the end of the romantic relationship? If so, the less contact you have during this time, the easier it will be.

After you have figured out what YOU want... .then it is time to start thinking also about what the kindest thing you can do for her is.

After we broke up first time I did NC and got my head straight and tried to be a supportive LC friend for her.  But yeah she started to push the boundaries and we ended up back in the thick of it.

[apollotech]

"After we broke up first time I did NC and got my head straight and tried to be a supportive LC friend for her.  But yeah she started to push the boundaries and we ended up back in the thick of it."

Boundaries only work, in maintaining a relationship, with people that respect boundaries. From the majority of what I have read on the Staying Board about trying to place/enforce boundaries with a pwBPD, they see boundaries as a challenge and begin probing them for weakness(es). Of course, the probing doesn't start until after the complaing against said boundary(ies) is complete. (Tell a child not to do something and what do they do?) As a result of all of this, they are still in control of the relationship. As hard as it is to accept, in most of these relationships, the only real power the Non has is to walk away. Ultimately, that too, in regards to the relationship, is a failure as the relationship is destroyed as a result. So, yes you can protect yourself with boundaries, but in many instances, at the expense of the relationship.

[Grey Kitty]

After we broke up first time I did NC and got my head straight and tried to be a supportive LC friend for her.  But yeah she started to push the boundaries and we ended up back in the thick of it.

Boundary enforcement is a skill, and you can learn it. I learned it on the Staying board here, and have watched others  learn it as well. If you are really solid, you won't get pulled into something you don't want to be in.

However if you couldn't do it in the relationship... .you won't have a successful friendship without seriously upping your game.

It doesn't sound like this one is worth the risk to you.Is that where you are, Infern0?

[Infern0]

After we broke up first time I did NC and got my head straight and tried to be a supportive LC friend for her.  But yeah she started to push the boundaries and we ended up back in the thick of it.

Boundary enforcement is a skill, and you can learn it. I learned it on the Staying board here, and have watched others  learn it as well. If you are really solid, you won't get pulled into something you don't want to be in.

However if you couldn't do it in the relationship... .you won't have a successful friendship without seriously upping your game.

It doesn't sound like this one is worth the risk to you.Is that where you are, Infern0?

I'm not emotionally at the stage where I'd consider friendship with her.  I am too invested and if she suddenly announced a new boyfriend I'd be devestated.

For now I'm going to try my best to stay NC  (I can not text her, it's When she comes back and starts begging me to talk to her that I crumble)

I want to do at least 30 days NC so I can clear my head and remember what "normal" is and then decide if I can do friends or not.

[newtothis28]

I'm starting no contact today.  I've tried everything in my power to change what happened.  I don't know if I'm being punished, but I know it must be nice to have a flip switch.  It must be a wonderful thing to not actually have to deal with your emotions and know nothing of the pain you cause to others.  I will say this:  I never understood the value of a rainbow until I met you.  Good luck to everyone in no contact.  I am starting today! I already feel somewhat liberated. 

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not emotionally at the stage where I'd consider friendship with her.  I am too invested and if she suddenly announced a new boyfriend I'd be devestated.

For now I'm going to try my best to stay NC  (I can not text her, it's When she comes back and starts begging me to talk to her that I crumble)

I want to do at least 30 days NC so I can clear my head and remember what "normal" is and then decide if I can do friends or not.

I'm in a position where strict NC would be difficult. (Lots to unwind from 20+ years married)  I'm also fortunate that my wife is much higher functioning / better behaved / doesn't really meet the criteria for BPD anymore. In other words... .I can discuss filing joint taxes with my wife by email or FB chat.

Still... .the last time we were FB chatting without a specific agenda, she just let the conversation ramble around to mentioning news from the guy she cheated on me with. As if it wouldn't bother me or hurt me or matter to me. She hadn't told me that she was in contact with him again.

Unsurprisingly, I was hurt, and a little pissed about it.

Fortunately it was a FB chat. I (silently) enforced a boundary that I've had for a while--that I'm not engaging with her at a deep emotional level. My feelings at the time were NOT HER BUSINESS. So I didn't tell her how I felt. I didn't say anything more. I haven't acknowledged that I simply ended the conversation, or why I did it. (I suspect she figured something out, but that isn't my problem)

Anyhow... .that is a long story... .let me get to the lesson in it that I want to share with you about communicating with her: There is a range of emotional engagement with different communication channels. Strongest to weakest for me is:

Face to face

Telephone conversation

Interactive chat (Texting or FB chatting)

Email

(Things like what I post on my FB wall, or what she posts on her FB wall don't quite fit the spectrum)

I'm personally strong enough to do the bottom two, most of the time... .especially because it is much easier to disengage... .although I limit the interactive chat stuff. I've chosen not to call her on the phone, and don't answer if she calls. For now, we aren't physically close enough to make face to face an option for a while.

What has given me motivation to stay 'down' the list is that when I do engage with her emotionally, the result is consistent--I end up feeling hurt, confused, or crappy... .I often end up feeling depressed and losing motivation for hours or even days.

It wasn't EASY to not answer the phone, especially at first... To remind myself, I made a special ringtone just for her from an old Rod Stewart song. "If I listen long enough to you... .I'd find a way to believe that its all true... ." I also gave her a special text message tone... .it happens to be the most melodramatic tone of the ones available on my phone. Since I did that, a fair number of the texts did live up to the 'warning'!

Giving yourself reminders that you are weak and are tempted to do things you know better than is very helpful.

Consider sending her a text saying "I need space from you where we don't communicate for a while." or something like that... .and give her a chance to read it, and even acknowledge it... .and if she honors that, great. If she starts trying to emotionally engage you, then block her number

I *know* that I need more time to get my heart and habits used to not trusting her with all my deepest feelings, not being close to her, not sharing everything in my life with her. It still feels weird, and I know it is what I need. Once I detach more, I sincerely hope I'm able to have a great friendship with her, but that is a long way off for now.