My BPD of 4 years broke up with me and I am hurting

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I hope that the length of this post doesn't scare anyone away. I've tried to outline a few different thoughts/points the best I can. I need some help, advice, anything.

I've posted this in the Undecided board because I'm still not sure of what will happen and not sure of how I feel. I know that this is painful and doesn't feel like a normal breakup. We've been down this road before, though we've never stayed broken up for very long, and it has always baffled me/never felt like your average breakup.

We spoke last Sunday (five days ago) and had agreed to take a break (or so I thought), briefly discussed some terms, and he didn't want to talk about it anymore so we decided to discuss it a bit more when I came to pick up the rest of my things from his place. Which I did last night. He had packed some of my stuff for me and taken all of our pictures, etc. down as he said it was too hard to look at them. I expected that we'd briefly discuss the break while I was there getting my things, and decide together how much time we should take before revisiting. He ended up telling me pretty quickly that he didn't want to be together and he didn't want to take a break, and that I had pushed him to say that the other day. He very much agreed to a break on his own, quite willingly, and I had simply asked a few questions on the subject in Sunday and was very careful not to push him. I'm sure some or many of you are familiar with this... .your pwBPD tells you what they think you want to hear, has a change of tune/all but admits that they never meant it, and makes you feel responsible. As if doing this is virtuous.

That should be enough to make me no longer want to date him. But part of me still would like some time apart to contemplate, with the opportunity to revisit later and make a joint decision then. Now I kind of see that there is no such thing as a joint decision, that he will decide the outcome no matter what I do or what we do.

In a case like this, he says he doesn't feel the way he once did, and does not acknowledge that this is largely due to his negative contributions to the environment of the relationship. Well actually last night, he did say that this was all his fault and that I didn't do anything wrong. This is not typical... .and if he is referencing the entire r/s, it's also not correct... .I contributed too.

Probably despite my better judgement, I tried to appeal to him in a way so that perhaps we could take more time apart before making a decision. I tried my hardest to validate his feelings, saying that I didn't disagree that things weren't quite working as is. It seems very much like the difficulty of a pwBPD to see any grey area is in play here. He is very intelligent but can't sit with more than one idea at once. For example, that we can have difficulties while also caring for each other. That our r/s can be flawed but not hopeless. His justification is that it "isn't meant to be" which to me lacks basis.

In the past, I have been so afraid that he would move on and become a better person, that he would treat a woman the way she deserved to be treated. I always thought that the problem was me, or us together. Now I lean more towards the idea that this (him changing drastically with the next person be dates) is unlikely. Can anyone provide enlightenment on this? I think he has always struggled with intimacy, vulnerability and the like. I think this has potentially been the most truly vulnerable relationship of his life, even amongst his friendships and family (his family dynamic is quite odd), and has therefor been the most threatening. We share a circle of mutual friends, many of whom we are both quite close to, so at some point I have to prepare myself for seeing him again. If he shows up with a new girl, I want to be armed with the knowledge that he has most likely not magically changed and become able to commit. (For some background information, I've considered what I know about his past relationships and they all point to him sabotaging intimacy or growth, as I sort of mentioned before. He cheated once, about ten years ago, began to date the girl he cheated with, then started dating the first girl again. At some point they began a long distance r/s which seems fitting for a person who fears intimacy. They broke up and he had the most difficulty when he found out that she had replaced him, like he couldn't keep her on the back burner anymore.

I would appreciate feedback on any of these points. I'm trying to place exactly why there is still a part of me that would like to be with him. Even in recent days and weeks, he has been deceptive and confusing. But I really still want to take time to clear our heads and come back. Is there anything I should say to make this more likely? I'm not seeking to manipulate him, I just want to make sure I don't do the completely wrong thing that will stop me from getting what I hope for.  It feels like he might come back (whether I want him to by then or not.) It's very difficult to swallow this when his reasons for breaking up are so... .nondescript. It's like he will act baffled as to why things are the way they are, as if be has no control over them, as if our fate is out of our hands and we must simply accept it.

I apologize for the length of this post. But if this resonates with anyone, or if you have any input whatsoever, I would greatly appreciate it.

[confusedwoman]

I hope that the length of this post doesn't scare anyone away. I've tried to outline a few different thoughts/points the best I can. I need some help, advice, anything.

I've posted this in the Undecided board because I'm still not sure of what will happen and not sure of how I feel. I know that this is painful and doesn't feel like a normal breakup. We've been down this road before, though we've never stayed broken up for very long, and it has always baffled me/never felt like your average breakup.

We spoke last Sunday (five days ago) and had agreed to take a break (or so I thought), briefly discussed some terms, and he didn't want to talk about it anymore so we decided to discuss it a bit more when I came to pick up the rest of my things from his place. Which I did last night. He had packed some of my stuff for me and taken all of our pictures, etc. down as he said it was too hard to look at them. I expected that we'd briefly discuss the break while I was there getting my things, and decide together how much time we should take before revisiting. He ended up telling me pretty quickly that he didn't want to be together and he didn't want to take a break, and that I had pushed him to say that the other day. He very much agreed to a break on his own, quite willingly, and I had simply asked a few questions on the subject in Sunday and was very careful not to push him. I'm sure some or many of you are familiar with this... .your pwBPD tells you what they think you want to hear, has a change of tune/all but admits that they never meant it, and makes you feel responsible. As if doing this is virtuous.

That should be enough to make me no longer want to date him. But part of me still would like some time apart to contemplate, with the opportunity to revisit later and make a joint decision then. Now I kind of see that there is no such thing as a joint decision, that he will decide the outcome no matter what I do or what we do.

In a case like this, he says he doesn't feel the way he once did, and does not acknowledge that this is largely due to his negative contributions to the environment of the relationship. Well actually last night, he did say that this was all his fault and that I didn't do anything wrong. This is not typical... .and if he is referencing the entire r/s, it's also not correct... .I contributed too.

Probably despite my better judgement, I tried to appeal to him in a way so that perhaps we could take more time apart before making a decision. I tried my hardest to validate his feelings, saying that I didn't disagree that things weren't quite working as is. It seems very much like the difficulty of a pwBPD to see any grey area is in play here. He is very intelligent but can't sit with more than one idea at once. For example, that we can have difficulties while also caring for each other. That our r/s can be flawed but not hopeless. His justification is that it "isn't meant to be" which to me lacks basis.

In the past, I have been so afraid that he would move on and become a better person, that he would treat a woman the way she deserved to be treated. I always thought that the problem was me, or us together. Now I lean more towards the idea that this (him changing drastically with the next person be dates) is unlikely. Can anyone provide enlightenment on this? I think he has always struggled with intimacy, vulnerability and the like. I think this has potentially been the most truly vulnerable relationship of his life, even amongst his friendships and family (his family dynamic is quite odd), and has therefor been the most threatening. We share a circle of mutual friends, many of whom we are both quite close to, so at some point I have to prepare myself for seeing him again. If he shows up with a new girl, I want to be armed with the knowledge that he has most likely not magically changed and become able to commit. (For some background information, I've considered what I know about his past relationships and they all point to him sabotaging intimacy or growth, as I sort of mentioned before. He cheated once, about ten years ago, began to date the girl he cheated with, then started dating the first girl again. At some point they began a long distance r/s which seems fitting for a person who fears intimacy. They broke up and he had the most difficulty when he found out that she had replaced him, like he couldn't keep her on the back burner anymore.

I would appreciate feedback on any of these points. I'm trying to place exactly why there is still a part of me that would like to be with him. Even in recent days and weeks, he has been deceptive and confusing. But I really still want to take time to clear our heads and come back. Is there anything I should say to make this more likely? I'm not seeking to manipulate him, I just want to make sure I don't do the completely wrong thing that will stop me from getting what I hope for.  It feels like he might come back (whether I want him to by then or not.) It's very difficult to swallow this when his reasons for breaking up are so... .nondescript. It's like he will act baffled as to why things are the way they are, as if be has no control over them, as if our fate is out of our hands and we must simply accept it.

I apologize for the length of this post. But if this resonates with anyone, or if you have any input whatsoever, I would greatly appreciate it.

[mitatsu]

In a Nutshell without years of therapy (DBT) the leopard will never change it's spots

No matter what front is put on you know you are a good 'normal' person and did your best so whatever you see in public is usually a front for your torture it wont be long before the new supply goes wrong


stay strong we all know what you are going through and we've all felt the same doubts and fears but look at the staying board to see how some long term rel's work out its very hard work and a great deal of sacrifice on the non's part do you want that? 

[confusedwoman]

Thank you for your response, mitatsu. It's good to know that others understand. I'm so glad I found this site, I think the lessons and feedback on here are some of the only things helping me hold it together right now. Especially since I know it will probably get worse before it gets better.

[Beach_Babe]

It's not your fault. Clearly you did everything you could but in the end the disorder always wins. Whatever new thing he has going he WILL mess up. How many times have you recycled in the past?

[confusedwoman]

Beach_babe, we recycled I think four times. I honestly cant make sense of it well enough at this point to be sure. One thing I have not mentioned on these boards yet is how verbally abusive he became. It was incomprehensible to me and still is. I think that's why I didn't leave on the occasions I should have. I think that I became more sensitive and vulnerable due to our dynamic, so it's possible that there were some things that upset me that were unwarranted, but they still were how I felt, my feelings were real. If he did or said something that was hurtful, or something happened between us that Concerned me, the way he would sometimes react was horrid. If I cried, he often would refuse to comfort me, and further would do more hurtful things, like look me in the eye and say "f*** you", or tell me that I didn't deserve to feel better. That's just the beginning of that. I think I've suppressed some of it now. It sounds pathetic that I stuck around for this. I honestly don't think I know how or when to break away from him. It would shock me that this would happen... .even after it was repeated. I desperately wondered where my doting boyfriend went. And he would always be back, at some point.

I see now that this says way more about him than it does about me. He once even admitted in a calmer conversation that when he became that angry with me, when he could look me in the eye and refuse to give me comfort or kindness, that he felt like a monster. But he would also tell me that no one had ever driven him to that point before. That may have been true, since as I said before i believe our r/s was the most threatening emotionally - I don't think anyone he's dated or known before has wanted to delve so deep or become as close/intimate with him.

[felix22]

"I'm sure some or many of you are familiar with this... .your pwBPD tells you what they think you want to hear, has a change of tune/all but admits that they never meant it, and makes you feel responsible. As if doing this is virtuous."

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. They are constantly changing their tune. Like someone who doesn't have their own song. They play what you want to hear. They play what you don't want to hear when it will hurt you. Then, they play what you want to hear again, to lure you back. Then they play something different to others, without you knowing about it. Then, they play a real sad song back to you, when that person tires of their tune.

[confusedwoman]

"I'm sure some or many of you are familiar with this... .your pwBPD tells you what they think you want to hear, has a change of tune/all but admits that they never meant it, and makes you feel responsible. As if doing this is virtuous."

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. They are constantly changing their tune. Like someone who doesn't have their own song. They play what you want to hear. They play what you don't want to hear when it will hurt you. Then, they play what you want to hear again, to lure you back. Then they play something different to others, without you knowing about it. Then, they play a real sad song back to you, when that person tires of their tune.

Felix22, it feels like a form of mirroring. Like he isn't just mirroring to impress me to rope me in, he's mirroring because he has no idea how to act. All of the examples you named sound very spot on for a BPD. All of them apply particularly to my situation. I've noticed for a long time that my SO seemed to vacillate between personalities, but it seemed subtle most times (or he had a way of making it seem like I was picking up on a nonexistent issue). He would act one way with me, other ways around different groups of friends, a slightly different way with his family. I found it really unsettling.

Last night, he said "It must be hereditary, because I can lie until I'm blue in the face to make people happy." I asked what he meant, and how it was hereditary. He said that he didn't know, just that he's been doing it all his life. He told me he's been faking it with me, trying to love me. Last week, he said he wanted to feel the way about someone that I feel about him. I found this a little presumptuous, that he assumed he knew how I felt about him when he hadn't made much of an effort recently to be in tune with that. But I now take this comment as a signal of his emptiness. I believe at various times throughout the relationship, he looked at the way I did things and tried to do them the exact same way, because he didn't have a strong enough sense of self to use his own approach. I believe he attempted to mirror my words and actions in the relationship, or at least the way he saw them. This obviously backfired often, as it was not based on being genuine and it caused him to fail to meet the unrealistic expectations he had set up for himself. I think that this also contributed to his fear of engulfment -- feeling that he was losing himself in another person because he tried to BE like another person due to his actual self already being so limited.

However, with a better understanding of this disorder, I think he tried the best he could and cared for me the best way he knew how. But it still sucks. I think he used mirroring to base his promises on exactly what it was I wanted -- a reciprocal relationship, eventual marriage and a family, and so on. I don't think that he was ever equipped to follow through on these things, even if he thought his intentions were honest. I'm angry now because he led me to believe these things would happen for us. And when I sensed him doubting this future or being hesitant, and gently tried to broach the subject, he denied it to no end.

I can remember in the beginning of our relationship, or shortly after we first met and were getting to know one another (ha, I don't think I can say that seriously now), that he was so insecure or eager to impress that he was dishonest about some strangely minor details. I remember asking if he had been to a particular restaurant in our area that was popular, and he said yes. Nearly a year later, we went there together for the first time, and when I talked about having been there before, he very clearly said he had never been. With a typical person, I could chalk this up to a misunderstanding, mishearing someone, etc. but with him, there were enough tiny discrepancies such as this one that it became apparent to me (eventually) that they were intentional and I now believe them to be incidences of mirroring.

Do these points resonate with anyone?

[felix22]

I hear you. The little falsehoods accumulate and become a pattern. Towards the beginning, my SO muttered 'I pretty good at lying and not bad at telling the truth.' or maybe it was the other way around. Anyhow, I heard it. It's funny, because now, I love asking questions based on honesty, knowing that if I'm getting a lie, it's on them.

The subtle variations of personality; I've seen that too. Sometimes not so subtle though and just blatantly dumbfounding. Okay, I'm going to get esoteric for a minute. I am starting to form the theory as I get older that our souls shrink or grow. And, that some people are walking around without very much of one. ... .Anyhow, I've seen that mirroring too, though I usually don't think of it that way. What I see more than that, is a person that uses other people for their own ends/needs. A person that will show good character, when it's to their advantage, and when it will get noted. And, a person that will just as quickly stomp on you, when they know they can get away with it. It's gone on long enough for me, that I can't deny these darker interpretations, after some years.

[patientandclear]

Yes CW, a lot of what you are posting about here resonates with me.  Most of us, the observation that your SO tells you what you want to hear, then resents that and feels you made him do it.

I just emerged from a really tough set of exchanges with by uBPDex in which he kept asking me what I needed him to say in order to resume our r/s.  I hadn't really figured out what is so wrong with that until days later, but of course, what I wanted him to tell me was what HE wanted. So I could make an informed assessment for myself about what I wanted to do in light of that information.  But all he wanted to tell me were the magic words that would cause me to return to the tent.

Intuitively, I sensed that if I got him to agree to what I wanted as the price of returning, very shortly that would be a huge source of resentment.

I hope you don't feel too badly about his statement that he wants to feel for someone what you feel for him.  It's highly likely you actually feel similarly for one another ... .but he doesn't "code" that as love because he also has all kinds of disappointed, frustrated feelings that he assumes don't go together with love.  Whereas you may more easily recognize that whole bundle as "love."

[confusedwoman]

Yes CW, a lot of what you are posting about here resonates with me.  Most of us, the observation that your SO tells you what you want to hear, then resents that and feels you made him do it.

I just emerged from a really tough set of exchanges with by uBPDex in which he kept asking me what I needed him to say in order to resume our r/s.  I hadn't really figured out what is so wrong with that until days later, but of course, what I wanted him to tell me was what HE wanted. So I could make an informed assessment for myself about what I wanted to do in light of that information.  But all he wanted to tell me were the magic words that would cause me to return to the tent.

Intuitively, I sensed that if I got him to agree to what I wanted as the price of returning, very shortly that would be a huge source of resentment.

I hope you don't feel too badly about his statement that he wants to feel for someone what you feel for him.  It's highly likely you actually feel similarly for one another ... .but he doesn't "code" that as love because he also has all kinds of disappointed, frustrated feelings that he assumes don't go together with love.  Whereas you may more easily recognize that whole bundle as "love."

Hi patientandclear, thank you for your response, I found it helpful.

I think resentment is a good way to sum up what happens after the pwBPD says something they don't mean, and we expect them to follow through.

It sounds like your ex had no idea what to say for himself -- I think I've been there too, and it's frustrating. It does seem like that would lead to some resentment, like you said. I think that's happened with mine before, such as after a big fight or a recycle. Looking back now, I see that most often I was the one to try and work through things/call a truce after fight, or making the most of the effort to get back together after a break up. Meaning that even though I never once forced him into anything, that left plenty of room for him to "resent" me, or control the situation through submission, by changing his feelings on a dime (perhaps very strategically) -- an easy way out. (It's interesting though, I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, where he would either resent me for "forcing" him to say what I wanted to hear, or he would feel abandoned for agreeing with his need for space or a breakup, see it as a betrayal, and resent me for that.)

At first, what he said about feeling for someone else the way I feel about him DID really hurt me. But once I had time to think about it myself, it actually makes sense. And it's funny that you say that we probably feel similarly for one another -- that's exactly what I said to him, that we feel more similarly than he realizes and we express things in different ways, and that I have doubts and struggles and negative feelings as well. To me, him saying something like this also shows me that he may not even know what love is, and the type of love that he is striving for does not exist. For example, with a perfect partner (idealized), in a perfect situation where everything is glowy and euphoric and he doesn't have to own his faults or be accountable for things and no one wants to know him on a deep level. I think you're right, there is no possibility in his mind for a grey area --if he truly loves someone, how could he also resent them and feel angry toward them at the same time? I think this whole idea also shows just how weak his sense of self is. That he was trying to love me in the very same way he thought I loved him. Likely because he has no idea how to navigate this himself. Coming to this realization makes me feel a lot less angry toward him, and a lot more sad for him. I don't know if he will ever find the love that he is looking for, but it isn't really up to me anymore to help him.

[patientandclear]

CW, I feel almost exactly as you describe here. My ex confided he is still looking for the perfect love where nothing ever feels bad. Also pointed out (which was harder for me to hear) that if he was willing to sit through the bad feelings and accept an imperfect r/ship, we'd never have been together, as he'd have done that with an earlier partner. :/

You're so right about the lose-lose situation. When I've listened to what he said he needed/wanted and let him leave without judgment, he's processed that as me leaving him. When I've tried to defend our bond and gently challenge his departures, he feels controlled and punishes me severely.

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that your SO and my ex have left us no good ground on which to stand. In the end I think not participating in an oppressive dynamic where they do what they think our price is to stay, is the path of most integrity. I'm not sure they can find any other way to relate though.

[confusedwoman]

felix22 -- I wanted to say to you earlier, and forgot include it in my reply, that it seems so funny to me that pwBPD go so far to be "people pleasers", only to resent this action, and go on to do some of the most displeasing this possible! Did you ever try to talk to your SO about the little lies, or the differences in behavior? Did they ever try to make you feel like it was your fault, or like you were seeing something that wasn't there?

patientandclear, it's astonishing to me how similar many of these stories sound. You know there is no such thing as a "perfect love", and that your ex will never find that. Which is sad, but maybe also a little relieving to you. I'm sorry about his other comment too -- that sounds hurtful. But, to me it also seems to say that there is consistency, at least. That it says more about his issues with *every* partner he's had, than it does about you as a person.

It's hard to feel like you've reached a dead end. I'm pretty sure there is no hope left for staying with my SO. I don't think he will agree to it, at least not for now. In the future I will be prepared for him to come back, looking to mirror me so that he can get his supply again.

[patientandclear]

That's a tough one to contend with isn't it. That even if he returns, that doesn't mean that he'll be offering something any more viable than what you're seeing right now.

[felix22]

felix22 -- I wanted to say to you earlier, and forgot include it in my reply, that it seems so funny to me that pwBPD go so far to be "people pleasers", only to resent this action, and go on to do some of the most displeasing this possible! Did you ever try to talk to your SO about the little lies, or the differences in behavior? Did they ever try to make you feel like it was your fault, or like you were seeing something that wasn't there?

     I agree about the people pleasing. It's like they want to, but they can't sustain it. Like a kid wanting to have a birthday party, and make all of his friends happy. Only, once they are exchanging presents, the child throws a tantrum, destroys a gift and punches another kid. I'm not saying that I'm much better. I have issues with trusting and my temper also. Only, I have enough strength to accept the aftermath of being honest with someone. And, I can control myself when someone isn't looking, even though the temptation is there. I've talked with my SO about everything. Including the little falsehoods.

     They will of course deny everything related to falsehoods, right to your face. Which, is another facet of the 'crazy-making' that people discuss, in relation to BPD, I'd guess?

     "Really?, Did I not just see you overtly, completely overtly, flirting with my cousin's husband over an extended period of time? And you say that you are not flirtatious at all?"

     Maybe it's just that lack of self-knowledge. But, I don't want to get to into the why of it. At the moment I'm more interested in the manifestations. The real bummer of it is, the sad side of it, as was mentioned on this thread. It has an essence of helplessness about it, which for me, is really heartbreaking. Sort of like watching someone light a cigarette while pumping gas and blow themselves up! Kaboom!

     So, yeah, I've gotten that feeling, as you say, like it wasn't their fault, or that I am seeing something that wasn't there, so many times, that I can't even count them. Then again, I have trust issues. So, sometimes I am seeing something that isn't there. Which, let me tell you, is a real treat! But lots of times it's just confusing.

     "What? You are 30 minutes late because you were talking to someone who just ruptured their throat 2 days ago?" What?

     Ugh