Depression & Anxiety

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Are we allowed to mention/discuss meds on this board?  If so, I'd appreciate some input and have some specific questions.  Nothing that I would need to ask my doctor about or anything, just some friendly opinions would suffice.  I'll mention some specifics once I know if it's ok to do so here.  I've been on anti-depressants in the past (before the PD ex husband), got off of them successfully, and will forever wonder if it was the thyroid issue all along since when it was uncovered and treated, I've been quite different.  I'm actually surprised I got through the worst, the last year without any medication. 

HOWEVER…post the fallout one year ago, I have anxiety for the first time in my life.  I've been managing this entire year with supplements (fish oil, D, and several others) without an anti-depressant…until just the other day.  I got a script and I feel like it's a last resort.  I'm less concerned with the stigma of being on an antidepressant and just more terrified of what I will do if it DOESN'T work.  I'm truly doing everything I can to heal.  I'm spending time with friends, working more than 1 job, exercising, I have a pet.  I've hit an awful place.  Tears daily, can barely get out of bed and when I do force myself to meet with a friend, run an errand or go to work…when I step foot back in the door at home it truly feels like the balloon has been punctured and I just fall apart.  It's like I held it together as long as I could and I need several, several hours to recuperate.  I can't allow my "recuperation" to sink into a worse depression if that's what this is.  We all need a few hours of solitude to regroup before putting ourselves back into the world, I get it, but this is just bad. 

This new wave of loneliness and lack of true, connectedness and support is really not leaving the rumination train.  I just can't seem to stop it.  My mom will be gone soon.  She's been sick for years and on her death bed for a few years now.  I want to believe that the place I'm in right now is temporary, but I can't stand that I'm having way too many days that I find that impossible to believe.

[Hope0807]

Are we allowed to mention/discuss meds on this board?  If so, I'd appreciate some input and have some specific questions.  Nothing that I would need to ask my doctor about or anything, just some friendly opinions would suffice.  I'll mention some specifics once I know if it's ok to do so here.  I've been on anti-depressants in the past (before the PD ex husband), got off of them successfully, and will forever wonder if it was the thyroid issue all along since when it was uncovered and treated, I've been quite different.  I'm actually surprised I got through the worst, the last year without any medication. 

HOWEVER…post the fallout one year ago, I have anxiety for the first time in my life.  I've been managing this entire year with supplements (fish oil, D, and several others) without an anti-depressant…until just the other day.  I got a script and I feel like it's a last resort.  I'm less concerned with the stigma of being on an antidepressant and just more terrified of what I will do if it DOESN'T work.  I'm truly doing everything I can to heal.  I'm spending time with friends, working more than 1 job, exercising, I have a pet.  I've hit an awful place.  Tears daily, can barely get out of bed and when I do force myself to meet with a friend, run an errand or go to work…when I step foot back in the door at home it truly feels like the balloon has been punctured and I just fall apart.  It's like I held it together as long as I could and I need several, several hours to recuperate.  I can't allow my "recuperation" to sink into a worse depression if that's what this is.  We all need a few hours of solitude to regroup before putting ourselves back into the world, I get it, but this is just bad. 

This new wave of loneliness and lack of true, connectedness and support is really not leaving the rumination train.  I just can't seem to stop it.  My mom will be gone soon.  She's been sick for years and on her death bed for a few years now.  I want to believe that the place I'm in right now is temporary, but I can't stand that I'm having way too many days that I find that impossible to believe.

[cosmonaut]

Medication can really help.  I've been on medication for ages and I will be for life.  I have bipolar disorder, however, which is chronic and something that requires fulltime treatment.  The good news is that you may only require short term treatment.

There are numerous classes of antidepressants, mood stabilizers, and anti-anxiety drugs that your doctor can try.  Unfortunately, it does come down to trial and error in the end, and it can take some time to find the right drug for you.  Especially since some drugs can take a few weeks to really kick in.  Some meds will have side effects and that may require switching meds.  It's a highly individualized process, to be honest.  Psychiatrists can make an educated guess about what might work best for you, but in the end they have to just try it out and see how you do.

[Hope0807]

Thanks cosmonaut,

I'm very familiar with bipolar and so glad to hear you found a med that works for you and vow to stay committed to wellness. 

I've gone the psychiatrist route before and wasn't a fan of the 15 min cocktail visits.  I had a psychiatrist tell me that she would refuse to prescribe me an antidepressant if I continued to take Fish Oil supplements.  So... I was thrilled that my regular MD is more than willing to help me with this.  The supplements I take under his care got my bloodwork in top shape and I noticed drastic improvements.  He's extraordinary, a complementary medicine physician and the exact opposite of a pill pusher - so I'm trying to feel confident. 

Medication can really help.  I've been on medication for ages and I will be for life.  I have bipolar disorder, however, which is chronic and something that requires fulltime treatment.  The good news is that you may only require short term treatment.

There are numerous classes of antidepressants, mood stabilizers, and anti-anxiety drugs that your doctor can try.  Unfortunately, it does come down to trial and error in the end, and it can take some time to find the right drug for you.  Especially since some drugs can take a few weeks to really kick in.  Some meds will have side effects and that may require switching meds.  It's a highly individualized process, to be honest.  Psychiatrists can make an educated guess about what might work best for you, but in the end they have to just try it out and see how you do.

[cosmonaut]

It's really important to have a doctor that you trust and you feel listens to and responds to your concerns.  I've had shrinks before that were just awful.  They didn't listen to a thing I said or they dismissed my concerns about my meds.  I'm lucky to also have a great doctor now.  I'm really glad that you've also found a good one.  Not at all sure what was up with the old doctor having an issue with fish oil - that's weird.

Another thing that really helps with depression: exercise.  Are you involved in any sports or have an exercise program?  If not, you might want to give that a shot.  It really helps me.

[Hope0807]

I'm back at the gym but not nearly enough as I should be.  You are absolutely correct.  When I was committed to exercise, it was literally like a religion for me.  I craved it and never felt better.  Say a prayer for me, would ya:)

It's really important to have a doctor that you trust and you feel listens to and responds to your concerns.  I've had shrinks before that were just awful.  They didn't listen to a thing I said or they dismissed my concerns about my meds.  I'm lucky to also have a great doctor now.  I'm really glad that you've also found a good one.  Not at all sure what was up with the old doctor having an issue with fish oil - that's weird.

Another thing that really helps with depression: exercise.  Are you involved in any sports or have an exercise program?  If not, you might want to give that a shot.  It really helps me.

[cosmonaut]

I'm back at the gym but not nearly enough as I should be.  You are absolutely correct.  When I was committed to exercise, it was literally like a religion for me.  I craved it and never felt better.

Maybe try making that a goal this week.  Go to the gym one day.  Just one day.  Next week go two days.

Say a prayer for me, would ya:)

You got it!   

[once removed]

hey hope, 

i have a couple of suggestions and some experience.

before i offer it, you mention anxiety. would you say youre experiencing general anxiety, (and) or are you experiencing anxiety attacks? mind you, anxiety attacks are a very different thing than panic attacks but have similarities.

[Hope0807]

Hi once removed,

I truly thought the worst had passed.  I never really gave much credit to that one year mark people talk about but I'm wondering if that's what this is.  I'm a year out and holding my own, but I'm ruminating like crazy and no matter what I do, I can't stop it.  I'm not crying constantly as in the fall-out, but the depression and anxiety that I experienced thereafter seem to have waned…and then come back with a vengeance.  Here's where I am... .

Morning anxiety is horrendous.  I've noticed that recently it's starting to carry on throughout the day.  The second my brain starts to wake up, I'm miserable and can't stop the thoughts. I'm quickly exhausted and want to lay back down.  Nothing interests me.  I'm deeply, deeply sad through all moments of the day.  I think it's generalized for the most part.

The doctor gave me Celexa 20mg for the morning, and xanax for whenever…which I tried half of on two occasions before bed and it slightly helped me relax.

Most of all, I'm terrified that I won't pull out of this.  I made the mistake of talking to an uncle whom I barely know about my mom last night.  Just hearing his voice and manner of speaking brought tons of rushing thoughts into my head, reminding me how very mentally ill my entire family is.  It's the reason I found myself comfortably uncomfortable with a PD spouse later in life.  It's tragic.  I want far, far away from all the dysfunction.  I want to believe there's something and some one good and real left for me in this world. 

Any suggestions or experience you want care to share would be appreciated.

hey hope, 

i have a couple of suggestions and some experience.

before i offer it, you mention anxiety. would you say youre experiencing general anxiety, (and) or are you experiencing anxiety attacks? mind you, anxiety attacks are a very different thing than panic attacks but have similarities.

[once removed]

im sorry to hear about all this. anxiety is very tough, and can be either crippling or at least debilitating. 

youve mentioned prescriptions which may have side effects with any of my suggestions, and in some cases a person is advised NOT to mix the two. i recommend checking side effects, as well as the products themselves, on webmd, and also with your doctor.

you also could be experiencing medical problems that need treatment. a thyroid problem for one example. some of what youre describing is depression, feeling sad and not feeling interested, but anxiety by itself can make it it incredibly difficult to feel interested, make it hard to experience pleasure, and in turn make you depressed. of course, there may be no medical problem at all. i think its understandable and natural for much of this to hit you a year later.

ive taken lots of supplements and also been prescribed half a dozen anti depressants (over time). the anti depressants all had neutral to negative results, and i wasnt treating the right problem, so you want to get that cleared up. a few supplements helped me immensely but were not necessarily a cure.

sam-e is a natural (made in your body) mood stabilizer also used for joint pain. it is not compatible with several (but not all) prescription anti depressants. avoid buying it in a grocery store. theres often an ingredient that will upset your stomach, so check an herb store. i took this a few months into my recovery and it made everything "smaller" and me feel more like myself. if you cant take sam-e there are some alternatives you may be able to take. i havent tried, but would recommend st johns wort.

ashwaghanda "helps the body adapt to stress", also supports your immune system. i tried this after i was no longer getting much out of sam-e. after about two days, i got a big boost, similar effects to sam-e.

passion flower is used for anxiety. i can only speak for myself. i was having daily anxiety attacks, and passion flower stopped them dead, and after a time they stopped happening. i also have anxiety due to a thyroid problem and its useless for that.

"Most of all, I'm terrified that I won't pull out of this."

you will. you absolutely will. but ongoing anxiety sure will make it tough. i hope this helps, and i hope you feel better 

[Hopeless777]

My T and P saved my sanity and maybe my life. My dBPDw of nearly 30 years nearly killed me till I got away. I'm recovering very slowly. I take two daily ant-depressants and an anti-anxiety as needed. I would NEVER figure I'd be here, but I won't give up even if penniless. Properly prescribed medication helps. Just find the right T and P.

[once removed]

i REALLY should have mentioned a therapist. also, do give your antidepressant some time to work. selecting an antidepressant can be a process. i was first prescribed effexor. for a good two weeks i felt like a zombie, then i normalized, and i could feel it doing some work. i dont even remember most of the antidepressants i was prescribed. viibryd is one, and i was on zoloft briefly.

the point being that if it DOESNT work: give it some more time. two weeks was usually long enough for me, some report a year. the doctor may try increasing your dose. or another medication may be a better fit.

[Hope0807]

You are all awesome!  :)efinitely have a great T…but kinda plateaued as it's just "talk" therapy and I feel I might need something more.  Been taking SamE a while and love it.  400 mg in the morning.  Maybe I should up it.

Also do mega doses of Omegas and Vitamin D…both of those which I slacked off on in recent months due to funding.  Just got them back in the cocktail though and MD okayed it all to be taken with this Celexa 20mg, and Xanax as needed.

My thyroid problem was discovered about 2 years ago and regulated with NatureThroid and blood work on that came back good so I'm continuing with it.

Any objections to the NatureMade SamE?  I've been ordering on Amazon.

I'm starting to get much more into essential oils so I think I'm going to take some of those recommendations and do some research.  I do have the St. John's Wort in the closet as well that I picked up a while ago but don't want to go crazy mixing too much stuff.  Once I saw that all this Vit D, Omegas and Sam E wasn't doing the trick and hit this horrific low, I got really concerned and gave in to the scripts.

Gonna give them an honest try like some of you suggest.  I'll do anything to not feel this low again.  Tomorrow is Day 6 of Celexa.  :)oc said to give it two weeks to notice anything but I don't see him again for another month at least.  

I'm not a church person but I've also been thinking of looking into one of the Unitarian-type places…just something where I can maybe have more of a community?  Your thoughts?

[once removed]

its either 1600 or 1800 milligrams thats the maximum for sam-e. i think its 1600. thats how much i take when i take it, and ive read that its the dose for treating long term depression. so yes you can certainly up it, though 1600 for an extended period can get expensive. i wouldnt know about naturemade but if youve taken it a while and not had major stomach pains youre probably fine.

church is great for a sense of community. no church of any religion is perfect, of course, so if you try it and dont feel that sense of community, you might try another.

hang in there. i had a very long period of trying all sorts of different things, everything plateauing, including the meds, and could only see my doctor every few months too. its a process, trial and error, but youll get there 

[fromheeltoheal]

5-HTP is a very popular supplement for depression in Europe, not so much in the States, but it works very well for me.  It works as a sleep aid too, so taking it at night for a couple of days and I feel stellar, too good sometimes, start taking less because I tend to move too fast when I'm in a great mood and burn myself out.  Supplements over pharmaceuticals every time for me, and soaking a t-shirt with sweat every day is a vital part of feel-good too, as is lots and lots of hydration.

[once removed]

id recommend 5-htp too but a few notes:

it has some controversy. check webmd about that, i dont remember. like all supplements, it has interactions. i wanted to take it while on anti depressants, and couldnt. im thrilled it worked for you, fromheeltoheal. i finally got to try it, and stopped pretty quickly due to some pretty bad side effect. thats not to discourage you, id still recommend it, and it works for lots of people.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, 5-HTP is a naturally-occurring chemical byproduct of tryptophan and increases the availability/production of serotonin, which is what anti-depressants do, he said with his rookie knowledge, but I'm always a fan of chemicals that naturally occur in the body anyway, as opposed to something created by someone in a lab coat.  The controversy was an impurity that ended up in 5-HTP supplements in the 90's, which ended up being toxic and bad news; they've fixed that now.  But as you say, your mileage may vary, and it works great for me, it's cheap, and no scrip required.  A little 5-HTP, vigorous exercise, hydration, and some really loud rock n roll always turn my world around.  Take care of you!

[zundertowz]

Go to a therapist asap... . anti anxiety meds have made a world of difference.

[Hope0807]

Thanks all.  I'm just about 11 days into Celexa 20 mg and have taken the Xanax on occasion.  I've definitely noticed some improvement with the Celexa and the Xanax quiets the wheels in head a bit.  I know these meds aren't going to take care of me completely.  I hate that it's such a struggle to get out of bed in the morning and have to work harder on getting to sleep earlier.  I'm a big night owl and I know the structure and good sleep cycle is critical.

I've done melatonin a few nights and DO have an unopened bottle of 5-HTP in the closet.  Would you recommend the 5-HTP over the melatonin?  I will also up the Sam-E from 400 mg to 800.  This stuff gets expensive, but I need to make feeling better a priority.

[Thread]

I've dealt w anxiety for 13 years. Been on, off for 5.5 years and on again for one, off for one now with my pwBPD just went back on due to his refusing therapy and spiraling out of control its been hard to deal with.

I do not like psychiatrists... . One put me on a cocktail of drugs meant for people who hear voices and see people who aren't there. I ended up in the hospital with the doctor lowered beneath me saying you are on a highly toxic level of drugs you don't need. That was scary!

Suffice to say I had a handful of anti-anxiety medication. Paxil was the one that worked initially. Hard to get off. Have to increase dosages as you continue the use. Kinda makes you feel weird at times.

My favorite and which worked the best the one I have gotten on twice and safety off twice is Lexapro it's an anti-anxiety and anti-depressant. Loved it. Still love it. It's help me get over a lot of difficult bumps in the road. Didn't lower my sex drive, didn't change my personality, didn't make me gain weight, I notice weight loss and never having to work out to stay thin though, this may also just be the anxiety, don't know. Lexapro helped with the anxiety and helped with the anxiety attacks which where not very often only in highly stressful situations. I take heed to what triggers my anxiety and do my best to control those situations. Like eating a lot of protein is important, exercise, sleeping well and consistently.

Xanax or alprazolam are great for anxiety attacks or panic. Be careful though these can be addicting. I've never had problems with addictions but my uncle did and I would listen to him yell at the nurses to refill his prescriptions. Be aware or have accountability.

Hope this info helps a bit! When I decide to get off my meds I cut my pill in half, take it for a week or so, then when I am ready take the half pill every other day, do that for a while, then take that half pill every two days and keep doing that until it's no pill time. I've done cold turkey on the Paxil! Crazy business. I was a zombie for about three weeks. Sleep all day no sleep was enough and just always tired and had not drive no motivation and disappeared from normal society. Do not cold turkey it's a rough path. Skipping meds is not good either. Drinking on anxiety meds not good alcohol is a depressant so it's works against the pills purpose. People do drink on it, just know on the medication one drink will be more like two. I do not suggest this it is counterproductive to your long term goals.

[once removed]

i woke up at 3:30 am, not by choice. its 5:40. i empathize with a messed up sleep schedule .

i think the best advice i can give you is to consider that all these supplements may have a drop off point and cease to be effective. in light of that, use the window of time that theyre working to maximize the effect; set healthy habits, rebuild your life, etc. this makes it harder to slip when the effects of the supplement slip; you simply dont need it anymore, or at least, less.

if there was a benefit to antidepressants for me, it was that they forced a regular sleep schedule. you may find soon that this happens to you.

if you havent tried it, you might consider valerian. it is for sleep but there are elements of valerian that can lower anxiety. in higher dosages it can actually increase. mostly what it does is improve your quality of sleep, and make you much more likely to remember your dreams. short term, it should make you sleepy. if youd like to try it, i recommend celestial seasonings "sleepytime extra" tea. "extra"=valerian. the regular sleepytime tea is basically chamomile tea, which is also useful.

[Thread]

I've heard mixing Sam-e or St. John's wart with antianxiety or antidepressants is not good. I'd look into that if I were you.

I do the 5-HTP it's good. I also do unisom again I don't have addictions and I feel like this really works well.

My doctor has also suggested Zyrtec it makes you drowsy, but I also deal with allergies so works for two things. Sometimes sleeping pills lose their ability if you rely on them daily. I was told to just use them to build the habit of sleeping at a certain time or if your work schedule is not consistent it helps with that. Travel, etcetera.

Prescription wise I love lunesta. Some insurances don't cover it but if they do LOVE! Non addictive works like a dream. Stay away from ambien and ambien-CR myself and others who have used these, we all have similar horror stories to doing things we didn't remember doing or saying. My doctor had told me it can cause temporary amnesia. Was not okay with that!

[fromheeltoheal]

Would you recommend the 5-HTP over the melatonin? 

5-HTP and melatonin are both naturally occurring in the body.  Melatonin levels increase naturally in the body when light levels drop to make us drowsy when the sun goes down, but be careful, most people take too much; 0.5 mg might be appropriate but most supplements are 3 or 5 mg, some even 10, which will definitely knock you out, but you may be extra drowsy the next day.  The sleep inducing properties of 5-HTP are secondary to their main action which is to increase serotonin, the same thing antidepressants do.  I need to be careful because if I take it at night for a few days I end up in an almost manic happy state, which feels great and I like it in a way, but it's almost too much and I move too fast and burn myself out.  So I back off and take it one day out of 3 or whatever.  Anyway, vigorous exercise and no caffeine after noon helps with sleep, and to me supplements of naturally occurring chemicals are better and much cheaper than something created in a lab.  Take care of you!