Is it wise to tell my spouse I believe she has BPD?

[wa_husband/dad]

11 years married.  2 kids - 3 and 5 years old.  I believe my wife is a high functioning BPD.  She has worked for a major insurance company for 20 years and is currently in management.  If something stressful happens at work that has potential to affect her career negatively, she completely breaks down.  She has threatened to divorce me dozens of times but has never followed through.  She cheated on me in 2008.  Has punched me in the face on two occasions.  Has thrown things at me.  Talks about wanting to hurt herself sometimes.  Currently, she threatens divorce regularly.  It usually happens during or shortly after a conflict where she has not gotten her way.  She talks about how alone she is in the marriage, how unsupportive I am, etc.  Then, within the same 24 hour period she is talking about things like building our dream home.  If it weren't for our kids and the fact that she is the primary breadwinner (I work part time and care for the kids), I probably would have let her leave (not tried to resolve the conflict/work through things, etc.) or left her myself long ago.  However, I know if we get divorced, it's gonna be super ugly and I don't want our kids to suffer that.  Plus, my influence in their life will be severely limited and who knows how she might deteriorate.  I believe that the stability she has had being married to me for 11 years along with putting major geographical distance between her and her abusive family has helped her be much higher functioning than she was previously.  Before she met me, she was very promiscuous and often talked about suicide.  A counselor I was seeing while we dated told me not to marry her.  Her constant threats of divorce and out of proportion anger over small things has really worn me down.  She just started seeing a new therapist recently for EMDR (she experienced childhood sexual abuse from her brother, grandfather and 1 other adult) which is supposed to be effective for past trauma.  I'm almost all the way through I Hate You Don't Leave Me and it seems very clear that BPD is an accurate description of my wife's behavior.  I thought about emailing her therapist with my suspicion or just addressing it with my wife directly, but I am concerned that might backfire.  Would love to hear feedback from those older and wiser than me who understand this situation.  Thank you.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[takingandsending]

Hi wa_husband/dad.

Welcome to bpdfamily; you are in the right place. It sounds as if you are in a very challenging relationship, and options can seem few and far between. I am so sorry for what you are going through - it must be so tough on you. I really understand the dilemma of wanting to leave for your own personal well being but being worried about the decreased involvement in your children's lives if you make that decision. I have a S9 and S3 (almost 4), and I feel exactly the same concern.

The good news is that there are things that you can do yourself to reduce the conflict in your relationship. The Lessons on the right of this page are really the critical first step to learning about this illness, your role in this illness and how you can choose, if you are inclined, to not make things worse. If nothing else, I am finding that my choices based on the things that I have learned here have had a positive effect in the household and are helping me and my kids not be subjected to verbal outbursts of rage from their mom.

My wife also began receiving EMDR treatments for her childhood sexual abuse issues last year, which has helped. If the therapist has worked with EMDR, she likely will determine your wife's condition pretty quickly. I also asked our MC if I should advise my wife's therapist about BPD, but the MC believed that it was not necessary. A BPD diagnosis in the US can be cause for non-payment of insurance claims, so that is one big reason to not push for diagnosis. Second, EMDR doesn't really work specifically at BPD traits. My understanding is that it addresses emotional trauma in a way that creates new brain response behavior to thoughts/memories of the trauma. For me, the biggest concern was that my wife experienced an increase in dissociation after receiving her initial EMDR treatment. You want to watch for that, and encourage your wife to discuss with her therapist if she feels a little ungrounded or unsettled during sessions. A good EMDR therapist will assist their patient going into the thoughts/memories, receiving the EMDR, and then reconnecting the feelings afterwards. When I saw what was happening, I talked to my wife about it in as non-threatening a way as I could so that she could have the language to ask her therapist for assistance in the next session. I will try to find the link to my questions about EMDR on this board and post them to you later today.

Lastly, I don't want to minimize your experience in any way. The domestic violence is serious. It is not something to take lightly. It may be helpful to read the Safety First information on the right of this page, as well. As you have two small children, you may decide it makes sense to have a safety plan in place for when your wife has severe dysregulations. A big part of learning to make things better in relationships with persons with BPD is learning how to take care of ourselves first. If you are willing to do some of the work to take care of yourself, I am hopeful that things can improve for you and your family.

Keep posting and we hope to hear from you soon.

[wa_husband/dad]

Hello takingandsending,

Thanks for your reply.  I will definitely be going through the Lessons you mentioned.

Do you think the therapist will tell me wife she has BPD?

Regarding the domestic violence, thankfully that hasn't happened for many years, before our kids were born.  She had been seeing another therapist for a long time before her current EMDR therapist, but there has been no mention of BPD from my wife, so I am not sure if this therapist recognized the disorder or if she did, did not relay that to my wife or maybe she did and my wife never mentioned it.  How did your wife get diagnosed?

[formflier]

 

wa_husband/dad

 

I'm so glad you have found us.   

Many people... .me included... .came here and after learning about BPD... .wanted our spouse to know about it... .and get into treatment.

The reality is that it is normally best to hold off discussing this with your spouse.  You are much better off to focus on the "traits" (what they actually do)... .vice a diagnosis. 

I think it you read through some lessons... .and post some questions... .we can start you on your journey to a better r/s (relationship)

Looking forward to reading your next post.

FF

[takingandsending]

wa_husband/dad,

My wife isn't diagnosed. I started T for myself because I was depressed and feeling isolated. Once I started feeling a little better, I pretty much demanded that my wife see my T with me as an MC. I was at the point of marriage counseling or divorce, even though I was very agitated over what to do for my sons. After 3-4 MC sessions, my MC (former T) texted me and said that we needed to talk. She explained that my wife is BPD with some NPD traits, gave me several resource sites (including this one!), and suggested that I purchase and start working through Randi Kreger's Stop Walking On Eggshells Workbook (she stressed the doing the workbook exercises was better than reading the book itself).

It's been a year since that phone call. I thought the bottom had fallen out of my life, and I was in free fall. I had a lot of fear and panic, feelings of self betrayal and self criticism - I was pretty lost. And I spent a lot of time wondering how to ever get to the point of diagnosis with my wife. Now, I am not so sure that diagnosis would help all that much. My wife is in her mid 40's. The BPD isn't going away. There is no miracle cure for her. It is entrenched. I have come to accept that my relationship will never look like what I had hoped it would be. But I am learning that it doesn't mean that it can't be functional. I think each person on this board has a unique relationship with the pwBPD in their life. The stories are eerily similar, but it would be a mistake to say they are all the same. For some, getting to diagnosis is helpful, and it helps the pwBPD understand what they are facing. For others, it is too stigmatizing and drives their pwBPD further away and makes them more defensive.

Based on the information and discussion I have seen on this site, my own personal decision is to not push for open diagnosis but instead focus my energies on how to make my marriage work a little better. A year after the unofficial diagnosis, I have more positive regard for my wife than I did a year ago, I still am grieving over the parts of being in a marriage that I had hoped would support me but don't, and I have boundaries over what I will accept in terms of verbal communication. I still have a lot of growth to do, and I am trying to learn to find more happiness in activities and things outside of my wife. I wish there were easy answers out there for you, but you are really not alone. Another god resource for you is the Family to Family classes offered through NAMI. If you live in a city or town close to a NAMI branch, I really recommend it. It helped me to get through some of the grieving of living with someone with a mental illness, but not have to be alone in the process.

It is so important to take care of yourself in this process, especially because that is what your kids see and learn from. You can teach them how to be patient, empathetic and tolerant while maintaining boundaries and self-esteem. On the plus side, my MC has shared some research she reviewed that showed that even if only one parent is engaged and provides safe attachment in a family and the other parent does not, the kids still get what they need to develop strong, healthy selves. Knowing and remembering little things like that have helped me through this past year. Hang in there. And keep posting. Others on this site will advocate for pushing for diagnosis. All I recommend is not to rush into the decision, one way or the other.

[takingandsending]

A little bit more information on diagnosis. Why is it important to you that she is diagnosed? What do you think you will get out of it? What will your wife get out of it?

Starting thinking about those questions, and the answers to them may lead you to what is the best way to proceed. Often, with BPD, it's not the way that rational though dictates.

[wa_husband/dad]

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied.

Regarding diagnosis, I guess it just seems like something that needs to be brought into her awareness.  Then we would have a category to refer to when her drama flares up.  My wife does not take responsibility for her drama and maybe if there was a diagnosis, she might face the reality of what she does, rather than blame me.  Also, she would hopefully be able to start looking at specific things that would help facilitate her growth and healing.  Perhaps it is naive of me to think this is possible but does that make sense?

[takingandsending]

Thank you for providing such thoughtful answers. Absolutely, that makes sense that you want her level of awareness and personal responsibility to improve. I have felt exactly the same way about my wife, so I understand what you are saying. You also are looking forward to wanting the best chances of success for her own personal healing.

For people with BPD, feelings=facts, so my own personal experience is that, no matter how badly I want my wife and I to be able to operate on a sound basis of reason and thoughtful consideration, her brain functions the way her brain functions. That's why getting a partner to diagnosis is not always straightforward. If your wife were to feel frightened or threatened by being seen as having a personality disorder, it is quite possible that her dysregulations may become worse because her feelings will overrule the facts. Hopefully, some others will chime in with their experiences, but from my own limited scope, I have found much better success tending to my own role in my relationship with my wife than waiting and hoping for change on her end. By doing that and also with her efforts at self-healing, we have been able to gain a little more stability.

Another way of saying this is, if you change how you respond to the blame and drama, then whether she improves or not, your life (and your kids' lives) will improve. And that is something that a lot of folks in this community have directly experienced.

[Tim300]

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied.

Regarding diagnosis, I guess it just seems like something that needs to be brought into her awareness.  Then we would have a category to refer to when her drama flares up.  My wife does not take responsibility for her drama and maybe if there was a diagnosis, she might face the reality of what she does, rather than blame me.  Also, she would hopefully be able to start looking at specific things that would help facilitate her growth and healing.  Perhaps it is naive of me to think this is possible but does that make sense?

What you're saying makes sense.  There's no easy answer here or surefire prediction of what is to happen.  Based on my experience with my BPDex-fiancee and everything I've read about BPD, assuming you wish your relationship to continue, I think there's a slightly better chance you'd be better off not bringing it up.  Perhaps now that you have this secret knowledge you will be slightly better able to predict and handle her behavior.  Possible outcomes of telling her are that she'll get angry, she'll fear you'll leave her, she'll read the descriptions about BPD and then allow it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, or she'll see the light and consistently change her behavior.  I would guess that the final outcome I just mentioned has a much, much lower than 50% chance of happening.  That's to say, I think there's a greater than 50% chance that bringing it up will backfire on you (and perhaps not benefit either of you).  Unfortunately, this disorder is at the root of how a pwBPD thinks and from what I've witnessed it's very difficult (i.e., sometimes not possible) to change that thinking even if the person becomes aware of the issue.

[Oooohm]

Careful... .

I'm going to insert some % on Tim300 optimistic post (Sorry Tim300) based on my own experience and "gut feeling" from reading posts here for 10 years... .

Possible Outcomes:

"she will get angry"   98%

"she will fear you will leave her"   70% (But you will never know for sure because we are not mind readers)

"allow it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy" (assumes "acceptance" of diagnoses)  Low%  (Because BPD is not yet a well known or "socially accepted" disorder)

"see the light and consistently change her behavior"  (seriously... . if she is able to do this, she never Had BPD)

wa_husband/dad

It's been expressed here on the forums in many different ways:  Your path choice won't be easy and definitely not clear but the one clear path NOT to take is to try and present a diagnoses of BPD to your SO in any way shape or form.

[Tim300]

Careful... .

I'm going to insert some % on Tim300 optimistic post (Sorry Tim300) based on my own experience and "gut feeling" from reading posts here for 10 years... .

Possible Outcomes:

"she will get angry"   98%

"she will fear you will leave her"   70% (But you will never know for sure because we are not mind readers)

"allow it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy" (assumes "acceptance" of diagnoses)  Low%  (Because BPD is not yet a well known or "socially accepted" disorder)

"see the light and consistently change her behavior"  (seriously... . if she is able to do this, she never Had BPD)

wa_husband/dad

It's been expressed here on the forums in many different ways:  Your path choice won't be easy and definitely not clear but the one clear path NOT to take is to try and present a diagnoses of BPD to your SO in any way shape or form.

Ooohm -- I agree with you.  I was intentionally trying not to be too blunt about my gut feeling (b/c I know it makes some members here uneasy when I do that).  I agree with your take that "seriously... . if she is able to do this, she never Had BPD".  I should add that my BPDex-fiancee had embarked on DBT of her own volition, because she knew something wasn't right and she wanted to get better, but that still seemed to have no impact during any time it would really matter.  I mean, a couple times the DBT would cause her to stop and say (after she had acted obnoxiously), "I am scared that I'm pushing girl friend X away."  But that's the only benefit I could see.  Ultimately, it didn't seem to actually curb any pushing away and was simply no match whatsoever for her mental dysregulations caused by us getting too close.   

[babyducks]

Hi wa

I thought about emailing her therapist with my suspicion or just addressing it with my wife directly, but I am concerned that might backfire. 

I would absolutely advise against either of those two approaches.   I think you can guarantee a backfire.

I wouldn't want my SO to come up to me, and tell me, I know what's wrong with you, you have depression.  Which happens to be my diagnosis.  I don't suffer from highly sensitive and intense emotions and I know I would react to that.  And not react well.

I also wouldn't use the term BPD because in some places (depends where you are located)  there is a stigma attached to that diagnosis.   Here where I am, I have had professionals in mental health say inappropriate things about treatment outcomes, and have refused to treat pwBPD.

I would also really stop and consider that her diagnosis is between her and her therapist.   If her therapist is trying to establish trust and consensus and you add this diagnosis into the mix you might inadvertently change that dynamic.   

If its something you really want to pursue, I'd suggest you discuss it with a therapist of your own.   With a professional you can trust, who can explore the nuances in detail.   There might be a real benefit for you to sit down with a T and say I notice my wife doing such and such and I think it means this.

Since BPD is a shame based disorder and it's shameful to get a mental health diagnosis, I would strongly suggest you handle this like its plutonium.

'ducks



 

[bobcat2014]

WA,

Your post drew me out of my month long hiatus from the board. While I am sorry you are going through this, I am encouraged by what you have shared. Understand you are not alone, and we get it.

Only you know how your uBPDw will react to the discovery of BPD,better than anyone. I think you have to evaluate the cause and effect of telling her or letting it run its course.

With the amount of attention in media and entertainment, being borderline is kind of in right now. Gone Girl movie, Jody Arias, etc. While the information is skewed, it is reaching public awareness.

The fact you confirmed the "eerily similar behavior" will help you accept and heal. (Jeez oh man does this sound familiar) You are not crazy or dramatic with what you are experiencing, and you have conceded your marriage is what it is, not your expected version. With that said, you have made much progress in the little you have revealed about your situation.

[ydrys017]

I would strongly suspect that if your uBPDw were made aware of a diagnosis (or even similarities to the disorder) that she would project it onto you, and accuse you of having BPD.

[Oooohm]

I would strongly suspect that if your uBPDw were made aware of a diagnosis (or even similarities to the disorder) that she would project it onto you, and accuse you of having BPD.

I Second that probable possibility... .

[tortuga]

I am new here, so I hope this response is not out of place.

(and I hope I'm not misusing any acronyms).

I recall reading a few years ago, about BPD, back when my BPD wife was in a really bad state, and a lot of crazy things were happening.  I did make the connection, and I did try to get our MC to make the diagnosis. (Our MC is now my T).  My T is kind of "old school" in that, she does not agree with these diagnostic categories. She is very adverse to people being pigeonholed - specifically, in the insurance system.  I made a few attempts to get the message through about BPD to my wife, and frankly, "everything is my fault no matter what" - so it just did not work. 

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Much has changed in how this condition is diagnosed, treated, and insured. My daughter's DX came within 15 minutes of talking to her psychiatrist at the hospital. She had already DX'd herself, online. (she wasn't sure, of course). The next psych specifically approached it "with an open mind" and fully agreed. My wife is having a  hard time accepting it.  (and I think this has a lot to do with the "shame" component, mentioned upthread).  For me, (and my daughter) it is actually a relief.  For the insurance company, I think the government now forces them to cover it. Which is nice. Because I pay my premiums.  My daughter is embracing her treatment wholeheartedly, (at least, for now). She is facing it with hope and courage.  Maybe it's because she's young.  Maybe it's because my own T has taught me to be more validating towards her, and this has given her some sense of self to protect. (who knows?).  She has absolutely had a much better upbringing than her mother did.

I think you really need to sit back and assess what her reaction may be to being accused of being "Personality Disordered". 

One thing the original psychiatrist mentioned, is that there is a movement in the community to change the name of this condition to "Emotional Dysregulation Disorder" - partly because "Borderline" does not really convey any useful information, and "Personality Disorder" lumps patients in with the Antisocial and Narcissistic people, and the shame associated with that is not constructive.

Also, while it would feel very validating (for you) to finally get your partner to accept: "It's not me who's crazy, it's YOU.".   it's really the wrong way to approach it. (especially if you love her).  It feels good in the context of all the hurt you've borne. But that's really a primitive response to being hurt. You need to have faith in your own sanity. You can't rely on their acknowledgement of it, because they wont acknowledge that. They can't. It's too terrifying for them. You acknowledge it yourself, in your own affirmations. Which leads me to my last point: 

One of the first things I learned in T, one of the most important lessons, and it's almost my mantra, is that "You can't control what someone else does, you can only control your reaction to what they do."  I believe that it is vitally important for partners of people with BPD traits - to get their own, individual therapy. If you have a good therapist, you will get help for your own issues.  (and I guarantee you - you have them if you're partnered with a pwBPD).  You will learn how to take care of yourself (including the affirmations I mentioned). You will learn communication skills, and how to be validating, and how to stop enabling.  You will learn to find the YOU you abandoned, when you began to take care of the emotional needs of a pwBPD.  Most importantly, as you learn and apply these things, your reactions to your pwBPD partner will change. And their behavior towards you will change. They will still have extreme feelings, and still dissociate, and be paranoid, and so on. But they will gradually learn to stop at the boundaries you set.

Another nice side-benefit of therapy for you, is that if you've been partnered with a pwBPD for a length of time, it may be that you have completely forgotten how to relate to "normal" people.  You can re-learn those skills.  I was amazed at how I had basically lost all of my friends immediately after getting married. I spend a long time in my life, where the only adults I talked with were people at work, and my wife.  And about a year after I started individual therapy, I was making friends again - and ENJOYING it.  (this, also, helped to give me a better baseline against which I could gauge my wife's behavior.  WOW; you mean it's not normal to be treated this way? People don't really act like this?).

One of the things they tell you when you get on an airplane, is that in case of loss of cabin pressure, put your own oxygen mask on FIRST, and then help the person next to you.  This is because, if you help the other person, and fail, you're both dead. You've got to learn a little bit of selfishness, and to help yourself FIRST. 

[takingandsending]

Wow tortuga! Thanks so much for that post.   

So happy that you got the help that you needed for yourself and your daughter too. It's encouraging to hear about the shift in insurance coverage, because my MC also indicated it may not be covered if diagnosed.

Can I ask how old your daughter is when she received her diagnosis? My S9 has BPD traits, and I sure want him to have the support in place to work through things early as opposed to it progressing.

Again, wonderful reply. You pegged it. We control our responses and our feelings. Our partners may never be able to validate the magnitude of the experience that we went through and are going through, but there's no reason that we can't develop the tools needed to take care of ourselves. I'm with you on the friends thing. I think a lot of us nons fit a certain mold, sad to say.

[Tim300]

One of the things they tell you when you get on an airplane, is that in case of loss of cabin pressure, put your own oxygen mask on FIRST, and then help the person next to you.  This is because, if you help the other person, and fail, you're both dead.

This is great.  Thanks for sharing this.

[wa_husband/dad]

Curious what people think of this article:

www.nonBPDsolution.com/correct-interaction/06-how-to-tell-them-they-have-borderline-personality.html

[tortuga]

Wow tortuga! Thanks so much for that post.   

You're welcome. It feels good that I can help others.

So happy that you got the help that you needed for yourself and your daughter too. It's encouraging to hear about the shift in insurance coverage, because my MC also indicated it may not be covered if diagnosed.

Yes, I don't really know if this is universal; but I was very surprised when I found that this RTC program was covered.  (there is a substantial, out-of-pocket expense, however - we're having to pay for her housing).

Can I ask how old your daughter is when she received her diagnosis? My S9 has BPD traits, and I sure want him to have the support in place to work through things early as opposed to it progressing.

19.  In retrospect - I think I can wind back her entire life in my mind.  I can see that she was a "sensitive" type, even as a toddler. Maybe as an infant.  If we knew then, what we know now. . .

I think it's very important to learn the skill of Validating.  I don't think we really knew how to do that, until she was a young teen.

If there is a decline in executive function (school, relationships, life-skills), I would say that would be a big marker to get him into therapy.  Even if they cant/wont DX BPD, (even if his problem is not BPD) - it can be a valuable and helpful experience.

I pushed for therapy for our daughter when she first started showing signs of trouble. She refused to go, and my uBPD wife pretty much didn't back me up on this.  It makes me very sad to see how much of her life she has now lost.  And hopeful that she can gain some of it back.

I'm with you on the friends thing. I think a lot of us nons fit a certain mold, sad to say.

When I look back at my relationships as a teen and young man, I can see that 4 out of the 5, were with women who were probably BPD.  One lasted 3 years, and I maintained some contact with her for many years after, and she was definitely BPD, and/or HPD.  It is a very compelling theorem that there's something in my makeup that draws me to them.  Maybe I *do* find "normal" people boring.  But that doesn't mean I've signed up being a target for prolonged emotional abuse.

I read this article about codependency - and much of it seems to fit. However, there are a few bits which are not only VERY harsh, but they don't seem to fit me at all.  Maybe they fit me years ago, and I don't realize it, and maybe I'm better now.  Or maybe I'm in denial.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a113.htm

[an0ught]

Regarding diagnosis, I guess it just seems like something that needs to be brought into her awareness.  Then we would have a category to refer to when her drama flares up.  My wife does not take responsibility for her drama and maybe if there was a diagnosis, she might face the reality of what she does, rather than blame me.  Also, she would hopefully be able to start looking at specific things that would help facilitate her growth and healing.  Perhaps it is naive of me to think this is possible but does that make sense?

wa_husband what you are talking makes perfect sense. Problem is your counterpart is not very sensible.

Yes, when drama flares up it would be good to have something. But when drama flares up then reason is already out of the door. And when drama is over it is much better to focus on concrete single stuff. Even that is already hard from our vantage point. Even that is already risking to overload her coping capacity. A layman's diagnose from you will only add shame, guilt and uncertainty. That is another constant load she has to carry and she is already struggling right now.

www.nonBPDsolution.com/correct-interaction/06-how-to-tell-them-they-have-borderline-personality.html

This is convincing - but then pwBPD can be convincing - it is really a strength of them.

The topic is complex. This assumes you are taking the responsibility for a diagnose that may be wrong and damaging. This assumes communication skills on your side that you are unlikely to have at this point in time. This assumes the pwBPD is able to listen to such a painful message from someone who is so close (and has conflicts of interest). This assumes the pwBPD will be motivated by your push and abstract knowledge to commit to change. This assumes that telling the pwBPD won't negatively impact the ability of the future T to diagnose and building of the critical T relationship with the pwBPD. This assumes the diagnose is not used by the pwBPD to start playing mind games.

It is natural to think that knowledge determines us. The more you learn on this board the more you will understand how deep we humans are steered by emotions which shape our behavior.

It is clear that at some point someone ought to tell her. Ideally it should be a T with an open mind meeting your wife with an open mind. The world is not ideal and nobody knows what will happen. Each situation is different and there are different paths to her starting T if she is willing. I understand it is frustrating not to see a clear path yet.

At this stage your own education and practical exercises with the skills will provide relief.

[tortuga]

Curious what people think of this article:

www.nonBPDsolution.com/correct-interaction/06-how-to-tell-them-they-have-borderline-personality.html

This is just my opinion.  But I think it seems kind of creepy and manipulative.

Ironically, it's roughly the same process I think I went through, with my daughter, when I was trying to convince her to have an open mind about treatment.  She was just off 2 suicide attempts in the past 4 weeks. Her feelings were spiking up and down all over the place, and she was in and out of very irrational states, with paranoid delusions, panic, etc.  Many of her friends were abandoning her, because her behavior had become so erratic.  She was pretty much convinced that mom and I were the devil.  I convinced her that we would not abandon her, and would help her only if she got treatment. She was "at rock bottom" as they say, in almost every way.  I knew that I had to tell her what she wanted to hear, in order to keep her in an "up" mood. I had to make sure she didn't feel "blamed", or "ashamed", at a BPD diagnosis. I did make promises to her that I didn't think I was going to keep.  I "tricked" her into splitting me "white". The only reason I did this, was because at that time, she was in crisis. Knowing what I know about the grieving process, I guessed that there would be a lot of wild swings in the coming weeks, and she would absolutely have ended up dead without our intervention.  I just couldn't live with myself if that happened. So I did what I had to do. And maybe it succeeded. (we'll see how she fares on her own, in treatment).  I figure that if she ends up miserable, and blames me for any broken promises, and decides to never speak to me again, I'm okay with that, as long as she is safe.  

Another thing I told my daughter, is that this "condition" can be looked at in a positive way; that while her lows are so much lower and cause her so many problems, that the good feelings are so much more intense and powerful than what regular people experience, and in a way, that could be looked at as a gift. Kind of like a "super-power".  I was trying to give her a reason to live.  I often try to put a positive spin on things, (without invalidating negativity completely).  I think that this was a big part of the reason she agreed.

As far as convincing an adult pwBPD to seek treatment; trying to take advantage of their "traits" in order to con them into getting treatment, in order to save a relationship, seems a little on the dishonest side, to me. And dangerous. And best left to an ethically unconflicted professional. But if it's to save a life, of someone who is deeply dysregulated, self-harming, and suicidal, then I think it may be justified.

I think that early in my relationship with my wife, I maybe started to "figure out" how to deal with her, and I probably practiced manipulative techniques like this with her.  I've been in T for about 7 years now, so I don't remember - but I know that now, I feel disgusted whenever I am pushed into a situation where I feel like I have to walk on eggshells, or do anything to sort of "adjust" my behavior or my emotional expression, dishonestly, to accommodate my uBPD wife's erratic emotional reactions.  The way I see it, is that we're both adults, and I went through a lot of time and effort figuring my own stuff out in T (and I know I still have work to do), and she must be responsible for her own.

Adults have to learn how to moderate their behavior through suffering consequences for their behavior. (consequences to include: losing relationship partners).  If you shield them from those consequences, they can't learn.  (But also - if they die, they can't learn).  

(in my case, my uBPD wife will not have the "benefit" of looking back over a history of stormy relationships and wonder if it wasn't her, because I stayed with her for over 20 years - which is enabling behavior - which is what we codependents do best)

Again, this is just my opinion, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone.

[babyducks]

Curious what people think of this article:

www.nonBPDsolution.com/correct-interaction/06-how-to-tell-them-they-have-borderline-personality.html

Hi wa_husband/dad

I like much of what has been said already by  tortuga and by an0ght.  I also felt what tortuga noticed,  a creepy vibe. 

I felt there is a tone to the article that was just mildly disturbing so I went looking for the authors credentials, and  peer reviews.  Which is telling.

I think there are aspects that have value in the article.  To me they are:

• pwBPD are very afraid



• pwBPD don't like the idea of being flawed or to be found wanting

• they don't like the word borderline



• pwBPD are insecure and require more reassurance of love and commitment

All of that rang very true for me, and mine.

My SO has been in serious therapy for nine years after a suicide attempt.  She still doesn't use the word borderline.  When the topic comes close to identifying a borderline type issue or trait I can almost physically feel her sheering or pulling away.   She has done a really great job at working on issues.  She has made amazing progress.  It has not all been linear.   

The topic is complex. This assumes you are taking the responsibility for a diagnose that may be wrong and damaging. This assumes communication skills on your side that you are unlikely to have at this point in time. This assumes the pwBPD is able to listen to such a painful message from someone who is so close (and has conflicts of interest). This assumes the pwBPD will be motivated by your push and abstract knowledge to commit to change. This assumes that telling the pwBPD won't negatively impact the ability of the future T to diagnose and building of the critical T relationship with the pwBPD. This assumes the diagnose is not used by the pwBPD to start playing mind games.

I think anOught summed it up beautifully here.   I would especially be concerned about introducing this while the T is working to establish rapport.   

Every situation is unique.   The thought occurs to me that you only have one opportunity to say this for the first time.   And it's not news that will spoil with the keeping.   I would err on the side of caution.

'ducks



[/list]

[takingandsending]

Hi wa_husband/dad.

Thanks for posting the website. It's a little one sided, but I believe that I have heard similar approaches used by members here. The thing is, getting to diagnosis is a step, but it isn't necessarily a good indicator of improvement. It takes a lot of work, CBT, DBT or other for the pwBPD to gain relief through awareness of where their thought process lets them down - some do not get that improvement. And if you are not doing the work described in the Lessons on this board, it isn't going to necessarily be a whole lot easier for you or your children. So, do you think it is possible for you to work toward establishing diagnosis but also making things better through learning what you can do yourself? That may be the optimal path forward.

At some point, whether she is in therapy working on her issues or not, you are probably going to have to make some decisions about what you can and cannot accept, where your boundaries are and what is best for you to do in your situation. I encourage you to do that work (or continue it if you are already on that path). It makes life a lot better.

tortuga - I found it difficult to read the co-dependency lessons my first time through. Harsh, judging, very unfair. Oddly enough, 3-4 months later, I re-read it, and maybe I am moving more towards some growth but I was a lot less triggered. I accept that, not through bad intentions, I seek out situations that bolster my self-confidence and allow me not to look at things that I don't accept within myself. It is an imperfect form of loving that I learned from my FOO, and I am okay knowing that I do it and also look forward to improving.