Not sure if I should discuss this with my dBPDh

[ColdEthyl]

There's been two things that have come up, and normally these are things I would just talk to my H about, however with his BPD I'm not sure if I should.

The first one is a friend of his he hasn't seen in two years contacted me on Facebook, congratulating our marriage. This friend is an alcoholic. When they would hang out, they would both drink and usually end up fighting. They were not good for each other. The last contact they had ended up in a fist fight over God knows what. From time to time, my H will mention missing his old friend and wanting to know how he's doing. So, part of me wants to tell him he's ok... .the other part wants me to shut my mouth. I also considered tell the friend thanks but please stay away... .and I don't think that's a good idea either. At the moment, I've just ignored the message until I figure out what to do.

The other one is my husband's son with BPD traits has been fighting with his wife, and some of the stuff she is telling me is so BPD it's not funny. This is sort of a weird situation. They have been estranged, we reconnected with him about a year ago. One the first day we met and spent the weekend with them, his son talked about how he was different, how he thinks he knows something was wrong with him... .and I told him about his dad's diagnosis. My H knows this, is ok with this... .we talked before about how this might be good... .they could help each other.

Well, the scenario she told me about was they were fighting and arguing so she left the situation by taking their kiddo outside. He came out and wanted to show kiddo something with the stick she was playing with. The kiddo wasn't too interested at the time to see what dad wanted to show her. Mom was telling him to stop... .she didn't want to see, and he snapped the stick in half, and told kiddo she could thank her mom.

I talked to daughter in law about this,  explained to her what was going on here. She's not sure if she wants to stay... .if she wants to do the required work for the marriage. I have given her this site address as a resource, and told her she has to make that decision herself, but it can get better if she wanted it.

I don't want to get in the middle... .but I don't want to leave her out to dry when she doesn't understand some of his behaviors. I don't want tot ell my H so he will either A. say something B. dysregulate because it's 'his fault' his son is BPD C. Any sort of issues other people deal with he takes into himself pretty hard

But... .this is his son. I don't know if it's my place to say anything at all. I'd like to talk to him about it, so when he sees the behavior in this son, maybe it would help him, too. But I don't know... .I just don't know. 

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[Cole]

There's been two things that have come up, and normally these are things I would just talk to my H about, however with his BPD I'm not sure if I should.

The first one is a friend of his he hasn't seen in two years contacted me on Facebook, congratulating our marriage. This friend is an alcoholic. When they would hang out, they would both drink and usually end up fighting. They were not good for each other. The last contact they had ended up in a fist fight over God knows what. From time to time, my H will mention missing his old friend and wanting to know how he's doing. So, part of me wants to tell him he's ok... .the other part wants me to shut my mouth. I also considered tell the friend thanks but please stay away... .and I don't think that's a good idea either. At the moment, I've just ignored the message until I figure out what to do.

The other one is my husband's son with BPD traits has been fighting with his wife, and some of the stuff she is telling me is so BPD it's not funny. This is sort of a weird situation. They have been estranged, we reconnected with him about a year ago. One the first day we met and spent the weekend with them, his son talked about how he was different, how he thinks he knows something was wrong with him... .and I told him about his dad's diagnosis. My H knows this, is ok with this... .we talked before about how this might be good... .they could help each other.

Well, the scenario she told me about was they were fighting and arguing so she left the situation by taking their kiddo outside. He came out and wanted to show kiddo something with the stick she was playing with. The kiddo wasn't too interested at the time to see what dad wanted to show her. Mom was telling him to stop... .she didn't want to see, and he snapped the stick in half, and told kiddo she could thank her mom.

I talked to daughter in law about this,  explained to her what was going on here. She's not sure if she wants to stay... .if she wants to do the required work for the marriage. I have given her this site address as a resource, and told her she has to make that decision herself, but it can get better if she wanted it.

I don't want to get in the middle... .but I don't want to leave her out to dry when she doesn't understand some of his behaviors. I don't want tot ell my H so he will either A. say something B. dysregulate because it's 'his fault' his son is BPD C. Any sort of issues other people deal with he takes into himself pretty hard

But... .this is his son. I don't know if it's my place to say anything at all. I'd like to talk to him about it, so when he sees the behavior in this son, maybe it would help him, too. But I don't know... .I just don't know. 

CE,

Would your husband bring his old friend up to his level, or would the old friend bring your husband down to his? If this alcoholic old friend can be detrimental to your husband's health, I would forget I heard from him. No good can become of it.

As for the son... . My wife is bipolar and BPD. Our son acts very much like her but is diagnosed autistic spectrum. The more problems he has, the more she blames herself for "giving" this to him. If you think your H will do the same, then maybe he does not need to know about it. The fact that you are worried about it to begin with tells me it is probably not the best idea. You know your H better than anyone else, listen to your gut!   

[ColdEthyl]

Thank you, I guess I just needed to hear that. Keeping things from your spouse is the opposite of my values; but in my H's case, sometimes it's best.

[vortex of confusion]

Was there a reason that the old friend contacted you instead of your husband? I would not say a word to your husband about it. Delete the message and move on.

If daughter in law wants to leave because she doesn't understand the behavior, that is her choice. Telling her that things could get better if she wanted it is a bit invalidating. Trying to navigate these relationships are difficult work. Wanting it isn't enough. You have to work your butt off and do a whole lot of work on yourself. Some people don't have the time or the energy for that and it is okay.

I wouldn't recommend mentioning this stuff to your husband. If him and his son want to talk about this stuff and connect over it, let them do it on their own.

[ColdEthyl]

Was there a reason that the old friend contacted you instead of your husband? I would not say a word to your husband about it. Delete the message and move on.

If daughter in law wants to leave because she doesn't understand the behavior, that is her choice. Telling her that things could get better if she wanted it is a bit invalidating. Trying to navigate these relationships are difficult work. Wanting it isn't enough. You have to work your butt off and do a whole lot of work on yourself. Some people don't have the time or the energy for that and it is okay.

I wouldn't recommend mentioning this stuff to your husband. If him and his son want to talk about this stuff and connect over it, let them do it on their own.

He contacted me because I have a Facebook, and H doesn't. Only reason.

That's not how I told her, VoC. I understand based on my paragraph how you drew that conclusion, though. What I told her was reality. He most likely will not get better unless he goes to T, and trying to get a pwBPD to T is difficult. Even then at the end of the day, it's up to him to change. I told her she would have to be the one making the most changes, and yes it was unfair. I told her about this site and the information here. I told her to research and decide what she wants to do. That's what I meant by "if she wants it" as in... .she if chooses to do so. I told her she has to make the best choice for herself. I love them both, so whatever happens, happens. It's their life, their choice.

The past year we have talked a lot about the whys of his behavior. She's starting to understand, but not completely. It's a hard thing to accept... .a hard thing to comprehend. Radical acceptance is not an easy task. I just wanted to make sure she has as much information as possible to draw from to make the best decision she can for herself and grandbaby.

[Stalwart]

Hey ColdEthyl:

In the case of the old 'friend' I'm assuming your husband doesn't have facebook while you do manage a page. Personally if I recognized this might not be a good connection for my partner I'd just unfriend him and leave it at that. If his friend is intent on getting a hold of him he'll find another method apart from going through you to do it.

I don't envy you the situation with your son-in-law at all and it must be difficult because you're so much more aware through learning than any of them are. Knowledge is a tricky thing as to how we use it some times. Personally, I would put my concern on the daughter-in-law's welfare and understanding if you want to try and help improve the entire situation. Her learning what she's dealing with and how to deal with it better would help change the entire dynamic and down the road approaching the subject of an illness may be easier for her or your family to intervene in.

In that case, and I've done this a dozen times for people when they find themselves in a situation they don't understand; I'd pick her up a book to help her along the way and just slip it to her as a suggestion for some reading and understanding. I think over the last three years I've probably read every publication and I can honestly say that, I find "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder." by Sharri Manning is the least stigmatized and most carefully written not to emphasize some of the nastier parts of the disorder without documenting personal opinions (particularly on comorbid interpretations) that may not be correct.

What can it hurt?  

[ColdEthyl]

Hey ColdEthyl:

In the case of the old 'friend' I'm assuming your husband doesn't have facebook while you do manage a page. Personally if I recognized this might not be a good connection for my partner I'd just unfriend him and leave it at that. If his friend is intent on getting a hold of him he'll find another method apart from going through you to do it.

I don't envy you the situation with your son-in-law at all and it must be difficult because you're so much more aware through learning than any of them are. Knowledge is a tricky thing as to how we use it some times. Personally, I would put my concern on the daughter-in-law's welfare and understanding if you want to try and help improve the entire situation. Her learning what she's dealing with and how to deal with it better would help change the entire dynamic and down the road approaching the subject of an illness may be easier for her or your family to intervene in.

In that case, and I've done this a dozen times for people when they find themselves in a situation they don't understand; I'd pick her up a book to help her along the way and just slip it to her as a suggestion for some reading and understanding. I think over the last three years I've probably read every publication and I can honestly say that, I find "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder." by Sharri Manning is the least stigmatized and most carefully written not to emphasize some of the nastier parts of the disorder without documenting personal opinions (particularly on comorbid interpretations) that may not be correct.

What can it hurt?  

I've already tried to this to some degree... .grandbaby is quite unruly. She's very very smart, manipulative, temper tantrums... .and the problem is both mom and dad try to cut deals with her... .try to be her friend. I ordered her a book about the high conflict child to try to help with parenting, but she has not read it. I'm thinking any other material I give her won't be used, and worse he might see it. Great suggestion, though Thank you!

[Stalwart]

Coldethyl:

Strange how we all have so many common challenges and concerns. I so feel you on the childrearing. I'm blessed to have five grandchildren with both of my awesome daughters. One little guy though is really exhibing challenges with temper and other maladaptions. I just ordered "The Kazdin Method® for Parenting the Defiant Child with no pills, no therapy, no contest of wills" and had it delivered to their house, because I'm removed a bit and our book stores don't stock well.

I really don't know if she read it either. She was at the end of her tether with him acting out but I still had to approach sending the book with kid's gloves. No one wants to hear their children criticized. I really don't know if she started reading it or not. I haven't asked even though I was just there for four days with all the kids together. I'm always positive and encouraging and really didn't want to bring up an issue that didn't need to be brought up. When the little guy acted out they were right on it and whatever they were saying to him was good, because he was able to reverse and drop his anger immediately. Good sign.

Well hopefully she realizes she's in a situation she doesn't know how to really handle well and takes your advice to join this site and seek some help.

Really hoping this works out for everyone concerned Coldethyl. It must be difficult to deal with generations of problems and keep yourself well at the same time. You make sure you do.

[Grey Kitty]

  Coldethyl, I think you are building better boundary skills. And by that I mean having a better understanding of what is "you" and what is the "other" person. [These aren't boundary enforcement situations; you know that too]

1. The alcoholic friend. Your husband didn't ask you to look for him / look him up. He didn't ask you to connect him with your husband. Therefore you don't have any reason to put yourself in the middle here.

Since it sounds like he's a poor influence on your H, I'd probably avoid connecting them even if one of them made a direct request of you. They can find each other on their own if they want!

Keep him as a FB friend if YOU value him as a friend... .not otherwise.

Another boundary issue here--you have your own facebook account as yourself, not as 1/2 of a couple. Your H could get on FB himself to connect with people there if he wanted to. He is choosing not to. Treat your account accordingly!

2. The SIL/DIL BPD issue.

You know you can't talk to the SIL about BPD / get him into therapy. You've got enough trouble with your husband there!

You know that the DIL can learn some better tools, and deal with her ex(?)H in more constructive ways... .but that is for her to do, not you as well.

Good to suggest this site for her. You might suggest that she will want it for better coparenting, even if she doesn't want to try anymore on the marriage.

If she comes to you with some specific issues/complaints/venting, you can treat her as you would a newbie here on the boards... .first listen/validate... .and as she calms down, if applicable, offer her a tip on what she can do to improve one kind of situation.

If she bites... .and learns... .she may eventually want to know where you got all this magic wisdom 

Offer her material in the format she will best learn from it. Some people learn from reading books. Some people learn by writing things themselves in a forum like this. Some people learn by having conversations with a friend. Some people learn by watching videos/lectures on a topic.

You indicated that she doesn't appear to have cracked the book you gave her... .try offering something different next time.

[ColdEthyl]

@GK good points. I guess I just needed a soundboard for someone to tell me yes... .these are good ideas. Not discussing things with my H just feels wrong... .but I logically know in cases like these, it's the best thing to do.

I have told DIL any time she would like to talk, I am here. I think she might like that better than reading books. There's a window where she can call me at lunch while SIL is at work, and I'm at work so my H isn't around.

I worry about getting in the middle. If I help DIL just with support and information, SIL might still take that badly if he hears about it, or she says something. I don't want to cause a rift between SIL and H, or myself and SIL. I've offered SIL my ear before if he had questions or wanted to talk when the BPD conversation first came up, but naturally he has not asked for that.

H and I have talked about their r/s and how it's going to play out if they do not remain together. DIL will have grandbaby I'm sure. We like her and we would still want to visit with her. SIL might not like that. I told H If that happens, hey he will just have to accept it. /sigh

See... .this is why I am antisocial. The more people you care about, the more drama you have

[Grey Kitty]

I know that uncomfortable feeling of learning NOT to share everything with my wife all too well. It has been an ongoing learning process for me... .first in my marriage, and now that we're separated, I'm taking it to a whole new level. Most of my life isn't really her business anymore, and that just feels WEIRD.

I have told DIL any time she would like to talk, I am here. I think she might like that better than reading books. There's a window where she can call me at lunch while SIL is at work, and I'm at work so my H isn't around.

I worry about getting in the middle. If I help DIL just with support and information, SIL might still take that badly if he hears about it, or she says something. I don't want to cause a rift between SIL and H, or myself and SIL.

OK... .your H and SIL have BPD. They will manufacture drama in your life. It is what they do. You can't stop it or control it... .so ignore the risks of that part.

What about your DIL? Is she stupid enough to get advice from you on how to handle SIL... .and name you as the source with him?

If you think she is that foolish... .or if she later proves herself to be in a way that causes fallout for you, then back away from her slowly 

If you trust her in this regard, then your only risk is that H or SIL will realize that you have a real r/s with her and talk to her... .that's the sort of thing where my recommended solution is to set a boundary that you are allowed to have relationships with friends and family in your life, and let the eggshells go *CRUNCH* *CRUNCH* *CRUNCH* 

See... .this is why I am antisocial. The more people you care about, the more drama you have

You're doin' it wrong!  If you care about mature healthy people, they don't add drama like that! Of course you can't choose family members, and you've already got some doozies there!

Seriously though... .you can develop friendships with people who ARE healthy, give you support, and while they may have problems and issues, don't create drama for you. And if your H creates drama around them... .whatever... .he's gonna create drama anyhow!

[ColdEthyl]

Seriously though... .you can develop friendships with people who ARE healthy, give you support, and while they may have problems and issues, don't create drama for you. And if your H creates drama around them... .whatever... .he's gonna create drama anyhow!

Heehee Grey Kitty, I think I must have a strobe light above my read that attracts crazies like a bug light, because so far at this point in my life... .this is all I have encountered. Of course, that could be because of MY personality. If you ever watched the television show House, Dr. House wasn't interested in anyone that wasn't weird or interesting, and I'm kinda that way.

I'm committed to start T this summer. Maybe this is all stuff that I will work on in the times to come

What about your DIL? Is she stupid enough to get advice from you on how to handle SIL... .and name you as the source with him?

To be honest, I do not know. We have reconnected for a year, we see them once a month at least, but by no means does that mean I know them well enough to make that judgement. If she does tell him or whatever well... .you are right. The chips will fall as they may and there's not a whole lot I can do about it. So, I won't worry. At the end of the day, I love and care about them, and wish them to stay together, but my priority is the grandbaby.

[Grey Kitty]

  Yup, that probably would be a good thing to talk about in individual T

I guess you can go slowly and gently in supporting DIL and offering her tools. You'll figure out how it is going.

I'm thinking that for now, anything that improves the mental heath / peace of mind of either or both parents is good for grandbaby. Things will have to get pretty bad for that not to be the case.