Do they 'move on' in the same way we do?

[Reecer1588]

Hi guys, first off I want to thank off all of you who have given your input on this thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=275877.0

It's a important thing to me.

Here's my question here:

There is something I want to tell those you who've just started the agony. I mean fresh off the boat. I have bad news and good news, You've got a LOT of nothing short of mental agony in front of you, but I PROMISE you that with time, introspection, and working on becoming a better person, you WILL start to feel 'better.' I'm not a prosperity preacher, I'm not saying you'll be HAPPY, I'm saying that with lots of work on your part (no one can do it for you), the agony can go away.

Here's my question: I'm not that far out yet. As many of you know, I think the toughest part is just how silent my ex has been for these past 3 months. It can be pretty invalidating and make you feel forgotten. I know that it's way too early to assume she'll NEVER contact me again.

But as time goes on, I'm healing. I feel like a better man. My goal is to become a better man. Always. I will completely 'move on' from my ex and this agony given enough time, and if she stays this silent for good. I'm pretty much of the opinion that if this summer goes by and I hear nothing from her I'm throwing out any chance she's contacting me. Not that I'm really hung up on it anymore anyways.



I'm wondering, if BPD's fail to introspect, exhibit inhibited grieving, and are masters at suppressing their emotions, is it even possible to say that my ex will ever 'move on' from me? I mean in a meaningful way. Not just threatening me with police when I send love letters. (Don't worry I won't be doing that again people).

[Mike-X]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'move on'?

[Reecer1588]

ehhhhhh it's hard to explain. Today is day 80 since I last text messaged her. Something in my brain seriously changed tonight. I genuinely remembered what the actually relationship 'felt' like. I'm saying I 'feel' like I did when I was in a relationship with her, but not the fake, idealization that I felt the past three months, but the legit way it actually felt, all the push/pull, all of her never forgiving me, everything. I remember how it REALLY felt.

And this is going to sound odd, but I remember how things were. If I acted just distant enough, but not too distant, or too close, she'd be all over me. If I was too distant she'd get really clingy and desperate, and if I got too close for too long she'd push herself away.

What I'm saying is that although I know the relationship is over, I FEEL exactly the same way right now I did in the relationship. I remember who the desperate one really was, although she turned that around in the end. It was always her.

She's not going to disappear forever. If I stay quiet for long enough (and obviously I am) she'll come back at some point. I just remember exactly how things worked, the nostalgia and false idealization are fading and I feel sober.

Wow I just ranted.

[thatwasthat]

I think I understand your question (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'll try to explain what I came up with.

No. She won't move on in a meaningful way. One day, one way or the other you will turn the page. It is a very painful process and I don't have to tell you how much it takes. But I think it takes that much because you actually process it versus just repressing memories.

She on the other hand will never turn that page. She's "only"  repressing all the memories. The really sick part about all this is that "you"  (and by that I mean the entire relationship) will only become part of her effed up past.

I'm not saying that she will be thinking about it in a romantic way down the road, but rather that the entire experience will be added to the dark and messy mountain of shame and hurt her past is.

You will come out of this stronger and wiser, she will have dug her hole even deeper.

And THAT in the end is the real tragedy. That they discard someone that would have stood by their side to put an end to this cycle. Alas... .This is the very nature of the disorder and there is nothing we can do about it.

I hope it made sense.

[Reecer1588]

I think I understand your question (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'll try to explain what I came up with.

No. She won't move on in a meaningful way. One day, one way or the other you will turn the page. It is a very painful process and I don't have to tell you how much it takes. But I think it takes that much because you actually process it versus just repressing memories.

She on the other hand will never turn that page. She's "only"  repressing all the memories. The really sick part about all this is that "you"  (and by that I mean the entire relationship) will only become part of her effed up past.

I'm not saying that she will be thinking about it in a romantic way down the road, but rather that the entire experience will be added to the dark and messy mountain of shame and hurt her past is.

You will come out of this stronger and wiser, she will have dug her hole even deeper.

And THAT in the end is the real tragedy. That they discard someone that would have stood by their side to put an end to this cycle. Alas... .This is the very nature of the disorder and there is nothing we can do about it.

I hope it made sense.

Sure it makes sense. I was my ex's first long, truly intimate relationship. I could have shown you at least 50 pictures of her back when we were dating. Her eyes were full of life, she looked so innocent and young. Looked like a pretty happy, normal girl to be honest. Now you look at her and she's put on weight (her face is rounded out now) doesn't brush her teeth, looks about 6-7 years older in the span of a few months, and literally nearly every picture of her post breakup now she just looks FAKE. Fake in the eyes. Probably best described as ":)isheveled."

And that's the thing, she has a complete lack of ability to introspect. If she had even an ounce of introspection, she'd see that when she was with me she might have still had all those problems but she had someone to lean on, someone dedicated to her. She'd remember how she looked in the past.

But she can't. She might never realize it.

Look it's just way too soon to know if she's really never going to contact me again. I know how it used to feel though. The truth of the matter. This might be the push/pull taken to the extreme, but you know what? I think it's just that. I FEEL the exact same way now that I used to. She'll stumble back eventually. I definitely wish for contact but at the same time... .remember how much life could suck never knowing what she was going to do... .it's sobering.

What am I saying, it would NOT be unimaginable to see all of this silence and threats as a prolonged silent treatment, or something temporary in nature. This FEELS the same way that it used to be.

But my confidence is coming back, largely due to my physical gains for sure, but finally I remember the truth. How things really were.

Honestly? I feel like I'm reverting. Reverting back to how I felt at the start/before my relationship with my ex. The confident young man I used to be.

And uh... .if I'm starting to revert to my default... .well... .maybe she will start to revert to hers too... .just saying... .

[thatwasthat]

This is very personal, but it might bring my point across. Time to let down my pants.  

Many years ago I had a wonderful girlfriend, it was my first  real big love. Although I never cheated on her I managed to break her heart. I was young and stupid.

After what happened with my disordered ex I thought about this situation again. And it was very, very painful. It still stings when I think about it. At the same time I know what happened, I know that although I messed it up that I have learned from it (probably also one of the reasons I wanted to be better this time and stand by my disordered ex no matter what.)

But there is a difference. I would know be capable of having a conversation with her. Taking responsibility for it etc. The whole lot.

If you turn the situation around with the disordered ex... .She would never be able to do so. She might feel the same shame and guilt (probably even way stronger) but never be able to stand up and take the blame and learn from it.

In short, the difference is:

"wow how messed up was that. I feel sorry and ashamed. But I will do better.  "

VS

" I am a monster incapable of being loved or loving correctly. And it will always be that way."

[thatwasthat]

Just answered without seeing your answer.

I feel your pain, man. I had the exact same thoughts. Maybe it's just an exaggerated push/pull. But without going into details too much for now I think... .I focused on myself, I had no choice at some point. And by now... .It doesn't really matter what it is anymore (although I am certain I won't here from her ever again - pretty exactly one year out and that's her MO).

[Reecer1588]

If you turn the situation around with the disordered ex... .She would never be able to do so. She might feel the same shame and guilt (probably even way stronger) but never be able to stand up and take the blame and learn from it

My ex would always make statements that she was going to work on things. I told her for the longest time over and over JUST TELL ME HOW YOU'RE FEELINGS, STOP BEING SO PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE! And she'd tell me she would... .you know where that ended up.

[thatwasthat]

Brother. YOU know how excruciating it is to "work on yourself".

Imagine there would be tons and tons of other bad things behind the scenes. And on top of that you'd be the one that started the mess. AND you're highly disordered to begin with.

Do you think you'd have a chance at" working on yourself"?

To be honest... .  Compared to them we have a pretty straight forward work to do. And we are barely making it.

[JRT]

Consider one of the foundational characteristics of a pwBPD: a pattern of failed relationships. They will continue finding people how 'victimize' them and will eventually sabotage any relationship that they are part of, including marital relationships. This cycle will continue until they become old an unattractive and they purchase a number of cats and become the neighborhood cat lady. Part of me is being funny but part of this is true. We all know people like this that end up alone... .there are reasons why. They DON'T move on unless some miracle comes into their life, they embrace that there is a problem and they work on it. 

[enlighten me]

I was thinking of starting a thread on this subject myself.

what I wanted to say was this.

What you have to bear in mind is they have the emotional maturity of a child. It is the loss of onobject that they feel. Like a baby will cry for the loss of a blanket so they will mourn our loss. Like the blanket though what they miss is the comfort and rreassurance we provided.

A lot of people ask how they can move on so quickly. Like everything in life the more you do it the easier it gets. A bit like public speaking. The first time terrifies you but aftrr doing a few you calm down. When youve had as many relationdhips as my ex has then breaking up is as natural as breathing.

[Reecer1588]

The first time terrifies you but after doing a few you calm down. When you've had as many relationships as my ex has then breaking up is as natural as breathing.

I am in that rare case where I'm not the first of her close friends she's eliminated but I am her first long-term, intimate relationship partner she's eliminated. And I believe it HAS terrified her. Some things on her social pinterest point to that. Not just her pinterest though but also her physical appearance. She looks like she's gotten 6-7 years older, she's filled out in the face, her eyes look empty and she just keeps looking 'fake' as time goes on.

See at this point, I'm only a few months out of not having direct contact with her. It's impossible to know yet if she'll ever come back, the numbers say she'll try something in the future, and I hope that she will.

Everyone can sit here and tell me that NC is the best way to go and obviously for now until the day when/if she contacts me I must remain silent.

But given the option I wouldn't sit back and watch her destroy herself, which all signs that I've seen allude to that.

If I could just show you guys all the pictures of her back when we were dating vs. now... .you'd see it.

[Skip]

Reecer,

It might really help to stop the time clock on this relationship.  I know its hard, but you are still living in a world where the two of you are only temporarily apart and you are trying to assemble in your own mind how she really wants you and imaging that she is struggling with the end of the relationship and believing she will come to her senses and rekindle it.

This is not detachment at all.  This is attachment - contrived attachment at that.

You can not move forward in life until you see the hard reality that you are in... .

• Her mother called your parents and said stay away.

• The campus police have now called you numerous times and have threatened turning you over to the police.

• She has been silent for almost 3 months.

At some point you have to stop wondering what she is eating for lunch and shift this thinking to something constructive. Be strong.

1. If you want her back, you are doing the wrong things for the objective. You need to become more independent minding and mentally tough - get away from the emotional neediness that she said was too much for her. If she reached out today, I don't think she would feel good after talking to you.

2. If you know you have to move on, you have not started the recovery and healing process or the self-awareness process.  You are not very self-aware right now - your image of what you are doing in the 70 days doesn't match up at all with what you are saying you are doing.

You need the ice bucket  

   WOW

Let's talk about what happened in the relationship.  Where did thing break down.  What part was her.  What part was normal.  What was pathologic.  What part was you.  What part was not very functional.

What do you think?

Skip

[Reecer1588]

If you want her back, you are doing the wrong things for the objective. You need to become more independent minding and mentally tough - get away from the emotional neediness that she said was too much for her. If she reached out today, I don't think she would feel good after talking to you.



Thank you for the advice. Look I know sending the email was a mistake but I felt it was necessary to clear my conscious. From this point forward I'm going to work on being mentally strong and not being emotionally needy. I'm not saying this will bring her back but I know you're right, if there's anything that would bring her back eventually it's months of silence on my end. Honestly not being emotionally needy and being mentally strong was how I used to be. I believe it was her constant emotionally abusive behavior that eroded that.

believing she will come to her senses and rekindle it.



False. Numbers say she will contact me again at some point. I am NOT making a statement which says I believe she will 'see the light'. I've read the ten beliefs. I'm not waiting on her anymore either.

Where did thing break down.

Thinks started breaking down after she and I went to separate colleges. I wouldn't describe myself as an extremely social person but I'm fairly outgoing, and I wanted to make connections at school. Her constant texting and over attachment made this really difficult. She'd get really angry if I went out to a frat party for example. I was leaving my college constantly on weekends to go see her. I felt really lonely back at school, I was just so enmeshed with her. In november I'd had enough of it and told her I was breaking up but she begged me to stay and said she loved me (in a really surprisingly tranquil tone of voice). I would say the dynamic was this (and always had been) 'Reece is a confident man who doesn't need A and A is a very attached girl'

What part was her.

Passive aggression, sometimes overly texting/attached and sometimes wayyyyyy too distant and apparently for no reason. She also could never just let things go. It was always like she was keeping a mental score of how often I was messing up with her. I was always trying to tell her not to sweat the little stuff but she never would. She'd just hold onto things. I really would describe the relationship as me constantly walking on eggshells.

What part was normal

I mean most of the time it was. Just hanging out, watching television together. Going to the movies, dinner, things like that. I'd say most of the time and for most of the relationship we were your typical couple.

What was pathologic.

Passive Aggression on her part. Never accepting my apologies and letting things go. But if there was just one thing I'd say was the most pathological it was her PA.

What part was not very functional.

For the longest time it was HER over neediness then in a span of a very short period she FLIPPED on a dime. By that I mean literally in a moment's notice she could just turn cold and bored on me, and it drove me to my emotional edge. I'd beg her just to forgive me and please to act warm again, but she'd just say 'ok' then go back to being cold to me. Never seen anyone change their whole mood like that on a freaking dime. To describe it in a few words: It was the inconstancy of her moods. I'm just not like that at all. If I'm upset, I'm upset for a long time. If I'm satisfied, I am for a long time. You get my point, I don't just unexpectedly flip on a dime. The real disordered behavior all started in December and acutely rose in frequency and intensity until finally all the turmoil happened. I was completely overwhelmed by this. I literally watched her and saw how she was losing her mind, and I was powerless to stop it.

What part was you.

Honestly not very much. I behaved much in the same way I had in the past. I'd say because of family stress I wasn't as motivated, and she probably felt like I wasn't paying enough attention to her. She might have felt like I could handle all of her strange behavior but because she escalated to such an extent, I could not. That's why I ended up kicking out of my house.

But I didn't learn communication skills, I didn't research or know about BPD, I didn't take breaks from her, I did a ton of things wrong.

[Mike-X]

Sure it makes sense. I was my ex's first long, truly intimate relationship. I could have shown you at least 50 pictures of her back when we were dating. Her eyes were full of life, she looked so innocent and young. Looked like a pretty happy, normal girl to be honest. Now you look at her and she's put on weight (her face is rounded out now) doesn't brush her teeth, looks about 6-7 years older in the span of a few months, and literally nearly every picture of her post breakup now she just looks FAKE. Fake in the eyes. Probably best described as ":)isheveled."

And that's the thing, she has a complete lack of ability to introspect. If she had even an ounce of introspection, she'd see that when she was with me she might have still had all those problems but she had someone to lean on, someone dedicated to her. She'd remember how she looked in the past.

But she can't. She might never realize it.

Can you elaborate and help me to better understand your thinking behind part in bold?

[ShadowIntheNight]

The first time terrifies you but after doing a few you calm down. When you've had as many relationships as my ex has then breaking up is as natural as breathing.

I am in that rare case where I'm not the first of her close friends she's eliminated but I am her first long-term, intimate relationship partner she's eliminated. And I believe it HAS terrified her. Some things on her social pinterest point to that. Not just her pinterest though but also her physical appearance. She looks like she's gotten 6-7 years older, she's filled out in the face, her eyes look empty and she just keeps looking 'fake' as time goes on.

See at this point, I'm only a few months out of not having direct contact with her. It's impossible to know yet if she'll ever come back, the numbers say she'll try something in the future, and I hope that she will.

Everyone can sit here and tell me that NC is the best way to go and obviously for now until the day when/if she contacts me I must remain silent.

But given the option I wouldn't sit back and watch her destroy herself, which all signs that I've seen allude to that.

If I could just show you guys all the pictures of her back when we were dating vs. now... .you'd see it.

Reecer, I hope you have good plans for the summer. I'd hate for you to throw your life and summer away on a 19 year old when you're so young and the world is still your oyster. You're in Texas. They're plenty of fine girls in Texas.

[cosmonaut]

Sure it makes sense. I was my ex's first long, truly intimate relationship. I could have shown you at least 50 pictures of her back when we were dating. Her eyes were full of life, she looked so innocent and young. Looked like a pretty happy, normal girl to be honest. Now you look at her and she's put on weight (her face is rounded out now) doesn't brush her teeth, looks about 6-7 years older in the span of a few months, and literally nearly every picture of her post breakup now she just looks FAKE. Fake in the eyes. Probably best described as ":)isheveled."

And that's the thing, she has a complete lack of ability to introspect. If she had even an ounce of introspection, she'd see that when she was with me she might have still had all those problems but she had someone to lean on, someone dedicated to her. She'd remember how she looked in the past.

But she can't. She might never realize it.

Can you elaborate and help me to better understand your thinking behind part in bold?

I agree.  Aren't you the one that broke up with her, Reecer?

Please don't take this as me criticizing you or beating you down, because I'm only being blunt to help you.  It does seem like you are stuck, Reecer.  You seem to have this idea that your ex is going to come running back at some point.  While she might return, it is anything but a guarantee.  I hear you saying that many pwBPD do try to reconnect with past partners, but can you accept that might not be the case?  Have you really accepted that you may never hear from her again?  I know that is a very, very hard thought to accept, but you are doing a disservice to yourself to not accept it.  I only say all of this from personal experience.  I have been through this exact same ordeal, and I know how hard this is emotionally.  I understand how much this hurts.  But continuing to hang on this belief that your relationship is on some sort of pause, and will resume anytime now, is only hurting you.  It's not allowing you to detach and it's not allowing you to heal.  And you need to heal, Reecer.  I can hear your pain so clearly in your words.  You love this woman, and you are deeply hurt about not being able to be in her life.  I understand.  But the only way to begin to heal that hurt is to let go.  That's the first step.  Do you think you are ready to let go?

I don't know you personally, Reecer, but I care about you.  I've been following your posts, and I can really relate to how you are feeling.  I can't speak to my ex either, and I know how much that hurts.  That's something that resonates with me.  I want to help you to move past that pain.

[Skip]

I know you've heard the term "turkey dump" where the Freshman lose their high school sweethearts. It might help to look at this phenomenon.

The dump typically happens at or around Thanksgiving or January-February. Couples will hold off their college social life initially, but often the absence of day to day relationship and the competing social life at the new school break a lot of relationships up.

Any of that at play here?

[Reecer1588]

I agree.  Aren't you the one that broke up with her, Reecer?

Originally, yes. I wanted to get rid of our BF/GF labels because I wanted to put some distance between her and me. In order to feel like less of a loner at school.

Have you really accepted that you may never hear from her again?

Life really isn't that bad now without her contact. I'm not worrying so much about relationships in general and focusing on myself and school right now. Have I accepted the possibility? Yes, but it's hard, because signs are she's really going down a dark path and I wish there was some way I could help. But that's it.

But continuing to hang on this belief that your relationship is on some sort of pause, and will resume anytime now, is only hurting you.

Those are your words, not mine. Although I may seem to infer that, it's not truly what I believe.

And you need to heal, Reecer.  I can hear your pain so clearly in your words.

Honestly since I sent the e-mail and cleared my conscious (although it likely still triggered her and pushed her away further), I feel much better. Please refer to posts of mine post e-mail to gauge my emotions.

 I can't speak to my ex either, and I know how much that hurts.  That's something that resonates with me.  I want to help you to move past that pain

Yes, I believe there are two separate camps on this forum, those who hurt because they DO speak to their exes, and those who hurt because of SILENCE. It's good to know I'm not alone in my camp.

Reecer, I hope you have good plans for the summer.

I'm a Russian/German language double major and will be spending 2 months (July 19th-August 19th) at the davis school of Russian, a part of the Middlebury language schools. I won't be allowed to speak the english language (or german for that matter), during this time.

Can you elaborate and help me to better understand your thinking behind part in bold?

Sure, my thought process is this, I'm beginning to feel a lot more like the guy I was before I met her, the confidence is coming back. But in addition to this confidence, I've learned so much about communication skills, being emotionally supportive, etc. And of course I'm the person most willing to stand by her when times get tough, but she threw me away so I can't. I'm saying that if she remembered back to the truth of our relationship, or took the time to talk to me, I could communicate how I feel, and what I can offer, in a non-emotionally overwhelming manner. A non threatening, friendly manner.

Any of that at play here?

Yes,  Skip for sure. You know the thing about when I 'broke up' with her it was really just because I wanted to spend more time making connections at school (NOT EVEN FEMALE ONES MIND YOU), and I'd say I broke up with her for pretty normal reasons. I wanted to remain her friend and obliged to do so when she asked me to, but she never was the same after that. All of the truly disordered behavior just came into full bloom and you know where it ended up.

[Maternus]

Yes,  Skip for sure. You know the thing about when I 'broke up' with her it was really just because I wanted to spend more time making connections at school (NOT EVEN FEMALE ONES MIND YOU), and I'd say I broke up with her for pretty normal reasons.

Sorry, Reecer - but you know how it hurts, when someone breaks up with you. You are going through this pain now. Can you empathize with your ex, that she was going through the same kind of pain, when you broke up with her, because you wanted to spend more time with other people? It's one thing to say, that you need more space, to establish boundaries in a relationship. It's a total different thing, to break up with someone instead of establishing boundaries. Needing space is a pretty normal reason to say "I need more space" but it's not a pretty normal reason to break up with someone, when you really love this person. And you both are so very young, you both have to learn about intimacy and give the other one space in the relationship. As far as I remember your story, it was the first long term relationship for both of you. Nearly everyone has to go through a breakup with his first love. This is nothing that has to do with personality disorders, this is normal life. You are struggling with it right now - but your ex also struggled with it, when you broke up with her.

[dagwoodbowser]

believing she will come to her senses and rekindle it.

False. Numbers say she will contact me again at some point. I am NOT making a statement which says I believe she will 'see the light'. I've read the ten beliefs. I'm not waiting on her anymore either.

Hey Reecer. Thought I would share this stat with you. Was posted on one of the other threads. I too thought there was much more contact by a former BPD but only been here 40+ days. Person that has these stats obviously has the resources and time to gather factual data.

Actually not.  The end comes 70% of the time from the person with BPD. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

No contact is a relatively small role in ending incoming BPD contact because there is not a lot of it and only 13% is about rekindling the relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=102678.110