Daycare

[Eco]

My ex is coming unglued right now and took away the extra day she has given me during the week with my daughter. the deal was I could get my daughter while my ex was at work but I had to have her back to the daycare before my ex got to the daycare after she got off of work.

She is using the excuse that I was late the last 2 times, I have video evidence that I haven't been late plus witnesses. Its not in the court order that I get this day so I know my ex isn't in trouble but it does make her look bad.

the daycare allows visitors and im going to talk to the director about me continuing to see my daughter on that day. Im just curious about my ex trying to get me in trouble over this, its not in the court order that I cant see my daughter while my ex is at work and it doesn't say that I can.

does anyone see any trouble over this besides my ex having a tantrum?

[Turkish]

I see it as violating her boundary, leaving aside judging the motivation on her side. Do you see good coming from this, or triggering more conflict? She changed her mind once about her day, but may likely change it again, unless you trigger her.  Her reality is distorted. A breach of boundaries, even if not explicitly stated, may lead to further distortion.

I know this is a ways off, but a way to get around this which may be better is to volunteer in her preschool next year on her mom's days, to spend extra time.

[scraps66]

What is the custody arrangement?  Shared/full and for who?  If the tables were turned I would see there is bad motive with the BP violating your time with the kids even if you're not around.  Generally, I try to limit my ex's contact with the kids during my time which is difficult particularly at activities and she picks them up from school on my days.  I'm surprised daycare isn't on top of this too. 

[ForeverDad]

In my divorce settlement, moving up from alternate weekends to equal time, I made sure daycare had the same status as school since my ex was very possessive and I knew she would want to take over as much of my parenting time as she could.  So when I was working even with that order, she still tried to take over.  It was very confrontational, she even got the police called on her (by the daycare, not me).

I believe most orders default to allowing the other parent access to the child.  Whether she can say, don't take the child away, I don't know.  But I don't think she can block your visits unilaterally.

If you have alternate weekends, she shouldn't complain about some extra contact.  If you have equal time, you might not want to yank her chain too hard and see if she calms down as the latest trigger fades into the past.

[Eco]

I know this is a ways off, but a way to get around this which may be better is to volunteer in her preschool next year on her mom's days, to spend extra time.

thanks that's actually a good idea.

What is the custody arrangement?

Right now its standard visitation, I get every other weekend and 1 day during the week( Thursday 4pm to 6pm) however It doesn't say I can or cant visit at daycare while ex is at work. my lawyer did a horrible job on the write up and left many areas of grey.

I'm surprised daycare isn't on top of this too. 

They are doing their best, they know what kind of person my ex is and my ex has stepped on everyone's toes at the daycare.

If you have alternate weekends, she shouldn't complain about some extra contact.  If you have equal time, you might not want to yank her chain too hard and see if she calms down as the latest trigger fades into the past.

she is in freak out mode because her delusion is my daughter is going to like me more then her so her way to fix that is to take away time from me any way she can. My ex gave me the extra day when she was on cloud nine with her new man so now that he dumped her she is a mess.

[Eco]

I was able to visit my daughter today at daycare, my ex left a note that I was not allowed to leave with my daughter. My daughter was very confused that we couldn't leave and got upset when we didn't leave. she is used to going to a jumpy house when I pick her up and then some Italian ice afterwards.

I need to get to court as soon as possible, finances are the holdup 

[trappeddad]

The courts need to realize time with the non custodial parent is better then daycare time, especially if the child is spending over perhaps 30 hours a week in daycare.     I had similar issues as my son was spending over 10 hours a day in daycare, but my ex would not let me take him out or visit him.      Legally I am only allowed to visit.     I read to the class to get around this some.   

[ForeverDad]

The courts need to realize time with the non custodial parent is better then daycare time, especially if the child is spending over perhaps 30 hours a week in daycare.  I had similar issues as my son was spending over 10 hours a day in daycare, but my ex would not let me take him out or visit him.  Legally I am only allowed to visit.  I read to the class to get around this some.

Until my final decree, I was the 'temporary' non-custodial parent for over two years.  My ex had previously wanted to 'save' our preschooler from the world and even contemplated home schooling but when we separated and she had to get a job she did use daycare.  I recall his kindergarten teacher welcomed parents to come in for half days.  I was welcomed too and did it at least a couple times but she asked that I not tell then-stbEx because then-stbEx had been banned from even approaching the classroom.  (School didn't want to testify at the scheduled Trial, their brief letter stated their issues with her had been addressed or resolved, but his teacher was excellent and said she was available to testify.)

Another factor to consider is whether one parent is trying to isolate the children.  Daycares and schools do have an advantage - if the children don't have much contact with other children - in that they let the children play and socialize in a somewhat normal and structured environment.

[scraps66]

The courts need to realize time with the non custodial parent is better then daycare time, especially if the child is spending over perhaps 30 hours a week in daycare.     I had similar issues as my son was spending over 10 hours a day in daycare, but my ex would not let me take him out or visit him.      Legally I am only allowed to visit.     I read to the class to get around this some.   

This is not necessarily true in all cases.  Like FD says, if this time is being used in aiding alienation, then the child should be in daycare.

My last Petition I tried to reason this, that me using before/after care was what I wanted to do on my days to preserve my parenting time and not allow ex to interfere.  I was also experiencing some conflict at transitions from ex on my days and I simply wanted to eliminate the possibility.

I knew I was in trouble when the very inexperienced Master said something to the effect, "Whenever there is a choice between daycare and a parent, I will always go with the parent."  It would have been fine if he continued, "... .provided both parents are cooperating amicably."

[ForeverDad]

As with so many things in custody issues, there are two sides to this issue.  So you'll likely hear variations in our responses depending on or different circumstances and how we were affected.  If you are the non-primary parent then of course (1) you don't want what little time you have to be sabotaged by your ex and (2) you would like access when you ex isn't directly parenting.

As I recall, my state by default issues orders that both parents have access to daycare, school and their records.  Access itself did not indicate that I could take my child off premises on my ex's time.

It can become a complicated issue with various factors to consider.  For example, if ex had a sitter rather than daycare, then likely you couldn't go visit your children in ex's home or the sitter's home.  (That's another advantage I saw with using daycares.)

[Eco]

I knew I was in trouble when the very inexperienced Master said something to the effect, "Whenever there is a choice between daycare and a parent, I will always go with the parent."  It would have been fine if he continued, "... .provided both parents are cooperating amicably."

That's the thing, the court system seams to be actively ignorant about mental illness. As much as they see it should be second nature to know who is cooperative and who isn't. With your ex the judge should be knowledgeable enough to see that her goal is to cause problems and not to spend time with the kids.

That's what my ex does, her goal is to make things as difficult for me as possible and to alienate my daughter from me at any cost. Its clear as day and I have evidence to back it up, I hope I get a wise judge.

As with so many things in custody issues, there are two sides to this issue.  So you'll likely hear variations in our responses depending on or different circumstances and how we were affected.  If you are the non-primary parent then of course (1) you don't want what little time you have to be sabotaged by your ex and (2) you would like access when you ex isn't directly parenting.

unfortunately my ex tries to block both of those.

It can become a complicated issue with various factors to consider.  For example, if ex had a sitter rather than daycare, then likely you couldn't go visit your children in ex's home or the sitter's home.  (That's another advantage I saw with using daycares.)

My ex was using a friend of hers who does daycare at her house and through lies by my ex I wasn't allowed at the house but eventually like with most people my ex ran her friend off so she had to switch daycares. My ex didn't tell me for a whole month that my daughter was going to a different daycare.

[momtara]

If your wife gives you time as a favor, it allows her to take it away to control you - however, if you are able to take advantage several times, as you have, it sets a precedent and that should work in your favor (just keep documenting).

Day cares don't really want to get involved in legal wrangling, although maybe they'll be nice. You should probably specify in your plan that you have right of first refusal and also, if you are able to take your child more often, definitely ask for as much time as possible. Try to get certain holidays, your birthday, vacations, school holidays, whatever you can.

[Waddams]

Does a mother's note to daycare that dad can't take the kid overrule dad's parental rights?  To me, I don't think so.  I see nothing wrong with visiting her, taking her somewhere, and either dropping her off for her mom's pickup, or just taking her home for her mom to pick her up later.

The issue is not the visitation and spending time with her.  The issue is her mom's reaction to said visitation, which is her mom's problem.  I'd be tempted to tell her to take me to court if she didn't like it, and I'd be tempted to the tell the daycare, she's my daughter, I'm taking her.  You try to stop me, you'll be hearing from the local cops and/or my lawyer.

pwPD depend on our fear of following through and fear of conflict to get away with this stuff.  They depend on us continuing to be afraid of rocking the boat, so to speak.  And when you start to rock the boat a little, they escalate their reaction to try to get you back down in fear again. It doesn't get better until you put your foot down and rock the he! out of that boat, and don't back down no matter how much they escalate.  Of course, if we could do that easily, we'd not be in these situations with pwPD's to start with.  We'd have done it a long time ago, and the relationship would have flamed out early before marriage/kids/etc. 

It takes a change in us to start.  What happens if it ends up in front of a judge?  Will any judge get mad at you for spending positive quality time with your daughter?  I'd like to think not.  Sometimes we have to just decide what's best for us, what's best for our kids, and do it, independent of our exPDs, let them react how they will and ignore it as background noise as best we can.

[momtara]

yeah, but there are dads who take their kids out of day care when it's not their time, just to harass mom. if it is your time or there's no ruling, that's different.