Emotional abuse

[maxsterling]

A thought here:  when I read the posts here, it's clear that all of us have experienced emotional, verbal, and sometimes physical or sexual abuse from our partners.  If I was to post my story to another website that deals with some of the psychological issues I am currently having, the responses would be "your symptoms are because you are in an emotionally abusive relationship, get out."

I even contacted the national alliance for mental illness (NAMI) to ask about how to handle certain situations with my wife.  The response?  "Is divorce an option?"

It seems like all of us are facing depression, stress, exhaustion, low self image, confusion, and anxiety.  And those are all symptoms of being in abusive relationships.  And the solution that most people would tell us is to get out of the emotionally abusive relationship. 

Is that what we are really dealing with here, abuse, and that we are all just in denial and really just need to face the fact that eventually we will have to leave in order to be healthy and happy again?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

It's a matter of degree. Yes, my first BPD marriage was marred by substance abuse, infidelity, physical and verbal violence. And it took me many years to get the courage to leave. I never, not for a minute, regretted leaving.

This marriage has problems and he can be difficult and annoying, but nothing like the first husband. My life is good, just as long as I don't have too many expectations of him being my best friend, confidant and helper. He makes up for it in other ways.

What I've heard from you, Max, is definitely at the extreme end of the spectrum. I don't hear anything about the good she brings to your life. It seems all you do is try to cope with the crazy. You don't have kids (yet) so you're much less entwined than you might be. I know you're being mindful, but you cannot rescue her. She appears way too broken for even a minimal kind of happiness between the two of you, I'm sorry to say.

[maxsterling]

Cat - thank you.  That's probably a hard reality that I am in somewhat denial over.  Yes, it feels lately like I spend 80% of the time with her trying to cope with the crazy.  80% of the phone calls or text messages between us are because she is having some kind of crisis.  80% of the time we spend together it seems like she is in a bad mood about something - her pain, some friend that is causing her grief, food issues, mental health issues, money issues.  I've tried to communicate with her before that those are all important issues, but I need some days when we are talking about what is good about today.   She understands, but can't stop herself.

I've been hesitant to admit to myself that the BPD issues I am dealing with seems to be of a greater extent than what many others here are dealing with.  I hate comparisons like that.  She does bring good to the table, but at least for the past 6 months or so, it's been less good and more grief.

I know that I don't need much.  I'm pretty self sufficient.  But if I am to take care of my needs, then I need time and space to do it.  I don't need much time, but more than I get now. 

[formflier]

I know that I don't need much.  I'm pretty self sufficient.  But if I am to take care of my needs, then I need time and space to do it.  I don't need much time, but more than I get now.  

Max,

I think you have done an amazing job getting her to this point.  She is in treatment... .has a P again... .

I like the call (decison... .Navy speak stuff) you made... .the " all in move" to get married and go for it.  Naval Aviators have to make lots of "hard calls" from time to time... .and sometimes spend a lot of time dealing with the call they made.  

That doesn't mean they made the wrong choice... .it means choices have consequences.

Many facets of my life are much more difficult now due to hard calls I made in the past.  Permanent physical (and mental disabilities)... .but you know what... .I don't regret making those decisions.  

OK... .trying not to get too long winded... .and a bit emotional... .thinking about my past... .

You did the right thing by getting married... .  I saw a guy live out his values... .help someone he loved that was in need.  Solid work... . 

Here is where I see you struggling now... .you now realize (IMO... .) that your previous decisions have consequences... .on your physical and mental self... .and I see a guy figuring out how much he can now give... .

Luckily... .you have a treatment team and sponsors in place.  

Somehow... .you need to shift a big chunk of the burden to them... . No shame in doing that... .in fact... .it's a good move for the long term.  If you keep giving... .and burn yourself out... .your long term... .becomes short term.

I am a much less productive guy than I was years ago... .I am at peace with that part of my life.  I can do... .what I can do... .the rest I don't worry about.

Hang tough!  

FF

[Notwendy]

Getting out of the relationship is one option, but why is it that this is so hard for some people to do?

People who are emotionally healthier would not have ended up here in the first place. I count myself in on that too. There were times when I was dating that my H seemed to turn on me, briefly, but he always had a good excuse. I on the other hand, didn't walk away. In fact, I tried harder to be what he wanted, as if I could somehow make those bad times go away. I will admit though, that I didn't see the whole of it until he painted me black after we had kids. Still, I readily accepted it when he blamed me. I tried harder. I bought into his world.

Someone with stronger boundaries would have never gotten this far. And, if I had left anyway, with my weak boundaries, low self esteem and co-dependent thinking, I would have been a magnet for someone with similar issues. That someone may not have looked or acted the same, but deep down inside, he would have had the same issues.

Who we seek out, who we feel "chemistry" with, and who is attracted to us is deeply subconscious. It was formed early on in our own FOO. Has anyone noticed the connection between our FOO and our current r/s? I don't believe it is coincidence.

I noticed this when I had a friend who escaped an abusive marriage. She was intelligent, pretty, and many nice guys were interested in her, but she had no chemistry with them.  She ended up in a relationship with a similar guy. Although she was the "victim" , and I am not blaming the victim, something about her made her feel attraction to these guys.  So yes, she escaped abusive man #1, but she did not escape her own self.

I'm not  going to say you did the right thing, or wrong thing by getting married. I am also not blaming you for your wife's issues, but you chose her, and something about you is attracted to her.  You may decide to stay, or leave, but in either case, the way "out" of this dysfunction depends on us doing some personal work- work to undo our own dysfunction so that we have better boundaries and deal with relationships better.- whether we stay or end the relationship.

Each of us here has a choice, but that choice lies with us. I think this is why none of us can tell the others what to do. It is easy to say "leave" but the decision to stay or leave has to come from within you.

I agree that your wife seems to be on the more affected end of BPD from your posts. My decision to stay was based on the knowledge that we have children, my H's issues are relatively mild, there is much good in our r/s, and also the decision to work on myself. I too went into MC with a whole list of how I was being emotionally abused, and I was. I thought she would tell me to leave. My H was terrified that she would tell me that, so much so that he didn't want to do it at all. I wanted her to point the finger at him, tell him that he had to change. She assessed the situation and told me to change- do something about being co-dependent. At first I was angry, but now I am glad I did it. I can handle my r/s better. I stopped focusing on how to fix him, and worked on how to fix me.

You remind me sometimes of my father and what he dealt with. I think some people told him to leave her. Even us kids told him to leave her at times. However, it was his life, his choice, his marriage and only he knew what he would do. Someone could tell you to get out, or to stay, but that decision is up to you.

[Cat Familiar]

Max,

I was responding to another thread about pwBPD creating problems to justify dysregulation and I recalled my life with my ex-husband.

Now that I am thinking about that, I'm seeing some parallels with your life with your wife. That is, my ex-husband was always creating problems--constantly. Your wife isn't acting out as much as he did, but her ongoing problems are emotional ones. The similarity is that both you and I have had to deal with constant stress and crises that were caused by other people.

I used to wonder why he was always causing problems. It was as if he couldn't just enjoy life and have a time of smooth sailing. Life deals us enough problems, but then some people seem to need constant strife such as your wife and my ex. I'm guessing that if things were going well, they'd have time to self-reflect and that is something that they want to avoid at all costs.

You've said your wife has some moments of self-awareness. My ex did too. Superficially he came across as incredibly intelligent and self-aware, but peel back that layer and he was a train wreck. The veneer fooled a lot of people, at first. And it made me think that he was far more capable than he truly was.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm guessing that if things were going well, they'd have time to self-reflect and that is something that they want to avoid at all costs.

BINGO!  Before our separation 10 months ago, my wife had her bad moments, but never did things like during our separation.  One thing my wife does do is keep herself entangled in as many things at one time as she can to keep from being alone with herself.  WHen she is alone with herself, she absorbs herself with Facebook or something to keep her "entertained".  It's almost like crisis in their life is an escape from their own hell.  She sets so many things up in her life to continue her own victimhood, but within the last 10 months of separation, things have backfired big time on her at times!