Head is Spinning

[Depression = 72% of members]

(I posted this somewhere in the wrong section and i apologize for the long post).  I am SOO confused about what just happened. 

Does ending a relationship with a BPD person make the non-BPD person sometimes feel like they are the one with the personality disorder?

Hi All, I have attempted to unravel most of this in my mind but it just spins around in circles. I will do my best to keep this as brief as possible.  Quite frankly, I am not sure about what just happened.  I had had a business relationship with a man for approximately 9 months.  After that 9 months, it was rather clear that there "seemed" to be a mutual attraction between both of us.  In fairness to him, he was in the middle of a rather contentious divorce and all over the map.  This past October we got together a few times and it was very nice.  We wrote via email several times a day, many involved deeply personal thoughts and feelings about our lives and the world at large. He never, ever called but always texted, which I found to be odd but I accepted that it was just his style.  In November we started a sexual relationship (which only happened like 4 times).  The day "after" the sexual relationship began, he picked a rather odd fight about being confused but then also sent me roses--this was very confusing.  There was a 2 week gap where we did not speak.  Then, he offered to help me with a computer issue and confessed that he missed me and wanted to see me.  We started to see each other again.  I attributed all of this "confusion" to him being in the middle of a divorce (which was about to conclude).  We didn't spend much time physically together as we would make plans and he canceled the plans 98% (no exaggeration) of the time.  Regardless of the lack of seeing each other for traditional dates or actually talking on the phone, we exchanged a tremendous amount of emails and text messages.  I was rather smitten with this man as he is incredibly bright, accomplished, has a good career, what I thought to be good integrity and character.  So, I continued to make excuses for the "lack" that was ever-so-present in the non-defined relationship. 

There was a time where he started to tell me that he was incapable of being in a relationship.  Then, two days later, after he learned that another man might be pursuing me he sent me a note that said, "Okay, I am yours.  I don't want to lose you."  Naively, I took this as a wake up call that maybe I would no longer be taken for granted.  However, it was as-if it was never stated and we went back to being pen pals.  At the end of December, I spent the night at his apartment for the first time and when we were lying in bed he looked at me as said "This just feels so right."  It melted my heart.  He also told me that he was a "hard case" and that "learning to trust again was difficult, he was having a hard time allowing himself to love again, but that he was confident that 'it would come.'"  I just got through the holidays but did not see him as his children were in town.  Right after New Year's I spent the night again and the next morning he was almost frantic as-if he couldn't wait for me to leave his apartment.  Nothing had happened, we just simply woke up.  I was leaving but apparently he had things to do and I was holding him up for 5 minutes.  At this point, he started to tell me that he didn't know if he should "speed up" or "slow down" our relationship.  He also mentioned that despite me being wonderful that in his mind (which he characterized as feeling rather Schizophrenic--not actually but just a descriptor) I was either "heaven" or "hell."  He was still undecided.   He also admitted that he knew that he was blowing "hot" and then "cold."  However, when I said to him that his behavior was confusing / maddening that I didn't know if he was drawing close or pulling away he said he wasn't doing either.  These statements just don't add up--I was even more confused.  Then, he said that he simply was not going to be okay in the head until his divorce was final--I understood.  I attempted to hold on very loosely but I did fall in love with him and I made the mistake of telling him that I had fallen in love with him.  He was almost outraged.  His response was when did this happen?  How did this happen? Why did this happen?  I thought this to be an extremely cold and off remark by someone that I had "thought" I had gotten to know over the past year.  This is especially true when he had already said to me "I am falling for you." Total mind swirl.  During the first week of January was his birthday, I got him a birthday present that I actually had shipped from Italy.  When I gave it to him his first response was "oh great, now I have to get you something for your birthday."  I was heartbroken.  I said, well, I am giving you this gift for your birthday but it isn't with strings -- it is simply a kind gesture with no agenda.  During the "day" of his birthday, I took the day off of work, took lunch over to his apartment (with his favorite foods), and it was fairly light.  After lunch, he embraced my shoulders and literally steered me into his bedroom as if he was driving a car.  I should have said, what the heck is that approach but I didn't.  Immediately after having sex, he started with the nervous behavior and acting as-if I needed to leave as he was having dinner with his "mother."  He has a very, very close relationship with his mother.  At one point, he confessed that he had always been his mother's "surrogate spouse."  I got the ick when he said it but I have witnessed it.  Anyway, he was having birthday dinner with his mother so I needed to leave.  So, I left.  My birthday was 5 days later.  I didn't get so much as a text message about my birthday.  While I didn't need some big celebration, this complete disregard for my birthday was one of the biggest turning points for me as it hit me as completely insensitive.  2 days later he came to my office as-if nothing had happened.  Normally, when we say goodbye we kiss; however, I was still thinking about the day of his birthday, his comment about his present, his disregard for my birthday, so I didn't kiss him and just gave him a friendly thumbs-up goodbye. Not like a jerk but more like a slowing things down message.  We didn't speak for several weeks.  During this absence, he sent me a note telling me that I was "hot enough, smart enough, caring enough" as if my credentials were being classified as worthy or not worthy.  I just didn't even comment.  Then, a day later he sent me a note telling me that I was "radiant and that we both had very bright futures."  When I responded, he never responded back to my note.  In fact, these were the only times that the conversation ever had anything to do with me or my life as the bulk of all of the conversations had to do with his divorce, his mother, his children, his suffering, his job, his ____.  Anytime I would attempt to vent or discuss something to do with me or my little world, he would simply ignore it as if he were deaf.  Like it was never spoken. 4 days later, I received an email from him telling me that he was "incapable of sustaining adult relationships." He said I am placing an emphasis on "sustaining."  I didn't know what to think as I was totally invested with my heart in this man. I have to admit that I blew a screw and sent him an email that I now regret.  It essentially said this relationship is not healthy for me as you have not demonstrated any ability to reciprocate, you cancel plans, we never see each other, you don't call, you don't ask about me or my life, you aren't there for me, and this entire thing is totally screwing with my psyche.  His response was well I told you that I couldn't be in a relationship, your ego is just hurt, if you are worried about your "hotness" that isn't a concern.  If you want to take it as a rejection, then, yes, I am rejecting you.  Leave me alone.  That was the extent of his communication.  We didn't talk for several weeks.  I was a mess.  Then, the day "after" Valentine's day, he sent me a note asking me to meet him at a park on President's day and that we would play basketball and have a picnic, he even mentioned that I should bring my dog.  After having soo many cancellations, I didn't put much stock in this little adventure but I went.  I left my dog at home.  I showed up dressed to play basketball but it ended up being me watching him play basketball and he seemed a little off balance when I retrieved the ball like I wasn't going to give it back. (I should mention that this man is 50 years old).  Then, after watching him play basketball, I was waiting to see what he had done for the picnic.  Nothing.  It was as-if he had never mentioned it.  I asked him if he wanted to go eat something and he was like I guess so but I have to leave early enough to meet my mother.  We took "separate" cars as if I was going to kidnap him.  Really?  When we were at the restaurant, I had told him about a neat little park that he would like. After lunch, I said hey I want to show you that park (which was about 1/2 mile away) so jump in my car.  Once again, he looked at me like he was going to be kidnapped.  I haven't a clue about what that was about.  I asked him if he wanted to take his car to his apartment and drop it off and then run to the park.  It was clear that he was avoiding having me as his apartment as-if he I was going to take advantage of him (which I think was backlash for me giving him thumbs up the month prior).  I couldn't have cared less but the behavior was so strange.  Not that this has much to do with it but I am not an unattractive woman who he used to almost obsessively stare at in the beginning, back when he called me "captivating." This was the last time that I actually saw him in person.  The last time that we had sex was on this birthday after he steered me into his bedroom. 

At any rate, after our luncheon at the park I returned him to his car and was leaning up against my car.  He stared at me like I was just beautiful and then said "we need to stay in touch" and then circled his hand like he meant physically, as a couple, stay in touch.  I just smiled, said ya think, and got into my car.  The entire day was bizarre.  We didn't speak for days.  I actually sent him an email asking him if the park date was supposed to be a goodbye and he said no is that how you took it.  I said, well, it wasn't a hello and I am totally confused lately.  A week later he was cutting ties with me, retrieving his items, and basically giving me the accelerated fade without saying the words.  I haven't a clue what happened but I hadn't done a thing.  I finally sent him an email saying if you ever want to truly invest in a relationship you know where to find me but this is just not healthy.  Maybe one day in the future.  Take good care of yourself.  His divorce (the big excuse for all of his agony - despite being separated for 2 years) was finalized at the beginning of March.  He sent me a text.  I said congratulations, I am happy for you and that you accomplished your goal.  I was being sincere.  Regardless, he sent me a note saying that his "goal" was freedom.  I said, well good, you have your freedom.  Several days later he sent me a note thanking me for investing in him during his divorce but that he and his mother had decided that he was in no shape to date.  I was perplexed as I had already said this isn't healthy good luck to you.  However, the underlying trend throughout this "relationship" of 5-6 months of "dating" was him acting as if he was the grand prize and I was the desperate woman that was attempting to trap him.  The opposite is actually true as I have been single for 14 years, I am a professional woman, I have my own business, I have my own house, I just thought that we had something special (until he spent screwy).  At this point, he mentioned "maybe we can be best friends."  I didn't know what to make of that comment.  I just didn't comment at all and he didn't respond.  I sent him a few encouraging notes for the next week.  Then, around the 3rd week of March he had a bit of a meltdown and I offered to go spend time with him as it seemed to be really, really bad depression.  We made plans for me to go to his apartment.  Of course, at the last minute he canceled.  The following week his children were in town.  The next week I asked if he still wanted me to come over with the movie that I had purchased and he sent me an email stating that he was "focusing on himself, his mother, and his job."  That was the LAST communication that I received from him back on April 7th.  I sent him a note saying that I was completely confused as while our romantic relationship didn't work I thought we had the makings of a decent friendship and that I didn't understand the complete severance but that I would respect it and not contact him anymore.

It has been almost a month and I have not made any attempts to contact him and he hasn't' contacted me.  I am very hurt, I feel as-if I was used or taken advantage of or lied to or strung along or manipulated or whatever the heck this was.  I have never experienced anything so strange in my life.  I have spun this around in my head about 5,000 ways.  I truly did have feelings for this man and I realize that it wasn't going to work as there was something really wrong. However, the way that he just disappeared or discarded me took on the flavor as if there was something wrong with me and he needed to escape.  I have to tell you that while I am far, far, far for anything resembling perfect, I don't play with people's hearts and I don't have a personality disorder.  BUT, I can tell you that I have almost convinced myself that maybe I am the nutty one.  There is just no explanation for any of this and my therapist summed it up when she said this: (1) he is broken; (2) you didn't break him;

So, after reading all of this can anyone give me feedback or explain or comment of this sequence of events?  Also, can you comment on the feeling like you are the one with the personality disorder when they are the ones that exact the odd behavior?  i am hanging by a thread as i can't sleep, eat, think, it's interfering with my work, and consumes my thoughts.  PLEASE give feedback if you have some to offer.

Thank you.  Olivia

[Olivia_D]

(I posted this somewhere in the wrong section and i apologize for the long post).  I am SOO confused about what just happened. 

Does ending a relationship with a BPD person make the non-BPD person sometimes feel like they are the one with the personality disorder?

Hi All, I have attempted to unravel most of this in my mind but it just spins around in circles. I will do my best to keep this as brief as possible.  Quite frankly, I am not sure about what just happened.  I had had a business relationship with a man for approximately 9 months.  After that 9 months, it was rather clear that there "seemed" to be a mutual attraction between both of us.  In fairness to him, he was in the middle of a rather contentious divorce and all over the map.  This past October we got together a few times and it was very nice.  We wrote via email several times a day, many involved deeply personal thoughts and feelings about our lives and the world at large. He never, ever called but always texted, which I found to be odd but I accepted that it was just his style.  In November we started a sexual relationship (which only happened like 4 times).  The day "after" the sexual relationship began, he picked a rather odd fight about being confused but then also sent me roses--this was very confusing.  There was a 2 week gap where we did not speak.  Then, he offered to help me with a computer issue and confessed that he missed me and wanted to see me.  We started to see each other again.  I attributed all of this "confusion" to him being in the middle of a divorce (which was about to conclude).  We didn't spend much time physically together as we would make plans and he canceled the plans 98% (no exaggeration) of the time.  Regardless of the lack of seeing each other for traditional dates or actually talking on the phone, we exchanged a tremendous amount of emails and text messages.  I was rather smitten with this man as he is incredibly bright, accomplished, has a good career, what I thought to be good integrity and character.  So, I continued to make excuses for the "lack" that was ever-so-present in the non-defined relationship. 

There was a time where he started to tell me that he was incapable of being in a relationship.  Then, two days later, after he learned that another man might be pursuing me he sent me a note that said, "Okay, I am yours.  I don't want to lose you."  Naively, I took this as a wake up call that maybe I would no longer be taken for granted.  However, it was as-if it was never stated and we went back to being pen pals.  At the end of December, I spent the night at his apartment for the first time and when we were lying in bed he looked at me as said "This just feels so right."  It melted my heart.  He also told me that he was a "hard case" and that "learning to trust again was difficult, he was having a hard time allowing himself to love again, but that he was confident that 'it would come.'"  I just got through the holidays but did not see him as his children were in town.  Right after New Year's I spent the night again and the next morning he was almost frantic as-if he couldn't wait for me to leave his apartment.  Nothing had happened, we just simply woke up.  I was leaving but apparently he had things to do and I was holding him up for 5 minutes.  At this point, he started to tell me that he didn't know if he should "speed up" or "slow down" our relationship.  He also mentioned that despite me being wonderful that in his mind (which he characterized as feeling rather Schizophrenic--not actually but just a descriptor) I was either "heaven" or "hell."  He was still undecided.   He also admitted that he knew that he was blowing "hot" and then "cold."  However, when I said to him that his behavior was confusing / maddening that I didn't know if he was drawing close or pulling away he said he wasn't doing either.  These statements just don't add up--I was even more confused.  Then, he said that he simply was not going to be okay in the head until his divorce was final--I understood.  I attempted to hold on very loosely but I did fall in love with him and I made the mistake of telling him that I had fallen in love with him.  He was almost outraged.  His response was when did this happen?  How did this happen? Why did this happen?  I thought this to be an extremely cold and off remark by someone that I had "thought" I had gotten to know over the past year.  This is especially true when he had already said to me "I am falling for you." Total mind swirl.  During the first week of January was his birthday, I got him a birthday present that I actually had shipped from Italy.  When I gave it to him his first response was "oh great, now I have to get you something for your birthday."  I was heartbroken.  I said, well, I am giving you this gift for your birthday but it isn't with strings -- it is simply a kind gesture with no agenda.  During the "day" of his birthday, I took the day off of work, took lunch over to his apartment (with his favorite foods), and it was fairly light.  After lunch, he embraced my shoulders and literally steered me into his bedroom as if he was driving a car.  I should have said, what the heck is that approach but I didn't.  Immediately after having sex, he started with the nervous behavior and acting as-if I needed to leave as he was having dinner with his "mother."  He has a very, very close relationship with his mother.  At one point, he confessed that he had always been his mother's "surrogate spouse."  I got the ick when he said it but I have witnessed it.  Anyway, he was having birthday dinner with his mother so I needed to leave.  So, I left.  My birthday was 5 days later.  I didn't get so much as a text message about my birthday.  While I didn't need some big celebration, this complete disregard for my birthday was one of the biggest turning points for me as it hit me as completely insensitive.  2 days later he came to my office as-if nothing had happened.  Normally, when we say goodbye we kiss; however, I was still thinking about the day of his birthday, his comment about his present, his disregard for my birthday, so I didn't kiss him and just gave him a friendly thumbs-up goodbye. Not like a jerk but more like a slowing things down message.  We didn't speak for several weeks.  During this absence, he sent me a note telling me that I was "hot enough, smart enough, caring enough" as if my credentials were being classified as worthy or not worthy.  I just didn't even comment.  Then, a day later he sent me a note telling me that I was "radiant and that we both had very bright futures."  When I responded, he never responded back to my note.  In fact, these were the only times that the conversation ever had anything to do with me or my life as the bulk of all of the conversations had to do with his divorce, his mother, his children, his suffering, his job, his ____.  Anytime I would attempt to vent or discuss something to do with me or my little world, he would simply ignore it as if he were deaf.  Like it was never spoken. 4 days later, I received an email from him telling me that he was "incapable of sustaining adult relationships." He said I am placing an emphasis on "sustaining."  I didn't know what to think as I was totally invested with my heart in this man. I have to admit that I blew a screw and sent him an email that I now regret.  It essentially said this relationship is not healthy for me as you have not demonstrated any ability to reciprocate, you cancel plans, we never see each other, you don't call, you don't ask about me or my life, you aren't there for me, and this entire thing is totally screwing with my psyche.  His response was well I told you that I couldn't be in a relationship, your ego is just hurt, if you are worried about your "hotness" that isn't a concern.  If you want to take it as a rejection, then, yes, I am rejecting you.  Leave me alone.  That was the extent of his communication.  We didn't talk for several weeks.  I was a mess.  Then, the day "after" Valentine's day, he sent me a note asking me to meet him at a park on President's day and that we would play basketball and have a picnic, he even mentioned that I should bring my dog.  After having soo many cancellations, I didn't put much stock in this little adventure but I went.  I left my dog at home.  I showed up dressed to play basketball but it ended up being me watching him play basketball and he seemed a little off balance when I retrieved the ball like I wasn't going to give it back. (I should mention that this man is 50 years old).  Then, after watching him play basketball, I was waiting to see what he had done for the picnic.  Nothing.  It was as-if he had never mentioned it.  I asked him if he wanted to go eat something and he was like I guess so but I have to leave early enough to meet my mother.  We took "separate" cars as if I was going to kidnap him.  Really?  When we were at the restaurant, I had told him about a neat little park that he would like. After lunch, I said hey I want to show you that park (which was about 1/2 mile away) so jump in my car.  Once again, he looked at me like he was going to be kidnapped.  I haven't a clue about what that was about.  I asked him if he wanted to take his car to his apartment and drop it off and then run to the park.  It was clear that he was avoiding having me as his apartment as-if he I was going to take advantage of him (which I think was backlash for me giving him thumbs up the month prior).  I couldn't have cared less but the behavior was so strange.  Not that this has much to do with it but I am not an unattractive woman who he used to almost obsessively stare at in the beginning, back when he called me "captivating." This was the last time that I actually saw him in person.  The last time that we had sex was on this birthday after he steered me into his bedroom. 

At any rate, after our luncheon at the park I returned him to his car and was leaning up against my car.  He stared at me like I was just beautiful and then said "we need to stay in touch" and then circled his hand like he meant physically, as a couple, stay in touch.  I just smiled, said ya think, and got into my car.  The entire day was bizarre.  We didn't speak for days.  I actually sent him an email asking him if the park date was supposed to be a goodbye and he said no is that how you took it.  I said, well, it wasn't a hello and I am totally confused lately.  A week later he was cutting ties with me, retrieving his items, and basically giving me the accelerated fade without saying the words.  I haven't a clue what happened but I hadn't done a thing.  I finally sent him an email saying if you ever want to truly invest in a relationship you know where to find me but this is just not healthy.  Maybe one day in the future.  Take good care of yourself.  His divorce (the big excuse for all of his agony - despite being separated for 2 years) was finalized at the beginning of March.  He sent me a text.  I said congratulations, I am happy for you and that you accomplished your goal.  I was being sincere.  Regardless, he sent me a note saying that his "goal" was freedom.  I said, well good, you have your freedom.  Several days later he sent me a note thanking me for investing in him during his divorce but that he and his mother had decided that he was in no shape to date.  I was perplexed as I had already said this isn't healthy good luck to you.  However, the underlying trend throughout this "relationship" of 5-6 months of "dating" was him acting as if he was the grand prize and I was the desperate woman that was attempting to trap him.  The opposite is actually true as I have been single for 14 years, I am a professional woman, I have my own business, I have my own house, I just thought that we had something special (until he spent screwy).  At this point, he mentioned "maybe we can be best friends."  I didn't know what to make of that comment.  I just didn't comment at all and he didn't respond.  I sent him a few encouraging notes for the next week.  Then, around the 3rd week of March he had a bit of a meltdown and I offered to go spend time with him as it seemed to be really, really bad depression.  We made plans for me to go to his apartment.  Of course, at the last minute he canceled.  The following week his children were in town.  The next week I asked if he still wanted me to come over with the movie that I had purchased and he sent me an email stating that he was "focusing on himself, his mother, and his job."  That was the LAST communication that I received from him back on April 7th.  I sent him a note saying that I was completely confused as while our romantic relationship didn't work I thought we had the makings of a decent friendship and that I didn't understand the complete severance but that I would respect it and not contact him anymore.

It has been almost a month and I have not made any attempts to contact him and he hasn't' contacted me.  I am very hurt, I feel as-if I was used or taken advantage of or lied to or strung along or manipulated or whatever the heck this was.  I have never experienced anything so strange in my life.  I have spun this around in my head about 5,000 ways.  I truly did have feelings for this man and I realize that it wasn't going to work as there was something really wrong. However, the way that he just disappeared or discarded me took on the flavor as if there was something wrong with me and he needed to escape.  I have to tell you that while I am far, far, far for anything resembling perfect, I don't play with people's hearts and I don't have a personality disorder.  BUT, I can tell you that I have almost convinced myself that maybe I am the nutty one.  There is just no explanation for any of this and my therapist summed it up when she said this: (1) he is broken; (2) you didn't break him;

So, after reading all of this can anyone give me feedback or explain or comment of this sequence of events?  Also, can you comment on the feeling like you are the one with the personality disorder when they are the ones that exact the odd behavior?  i am hanging by a thread as i can't sleep, eat, think, it's interfering with my work, and consumes my thoughts.  PLEASE give feedback if you have some to offer.

Thank you.  Olivia

[Wood stock]

Olivia: I am so sorry you had to endure that craziness.  I am not a moderator or expert on this site, but I--and the others on this site--have also experienced the bizarre behaviors from our partners. And it does make the non-BPD's often feel like they are nuts... .because their behaviors are so nuts.

The most important part of your immediate healing process will be to remain NO CONTACT in an effort to put yourself back together... .

Hugs to you. 

[felix22]

Okay. First of all, that was well written, clear and intelligent. I think you have your thoughts quite in order. Secondly, I don't see any other option, personally, except for you to suffer through healing from this. Next, I don't think you should take this personally, as if you were being manipulated. This person/man is obviously very confused, definitely at the moment and quite possibly in general/overall.

     I get the impression that he was quite attracted to you physically. And, you were quite attracted to his success/worldly-persona. You fell in love with him. Which is tough, because his feelings weren't equal to yours. My impression is that while he was drawn to you, there was something else that he was wrestling with, personally, and being in a relationship with you was an obstacle; and he didn't know how to create a physical relationship, ie friends with benefits sort of affair. You fell in love, he tried not to/or just didn't. It hurts, it's a loss, you have to grieve your way through it and come out on the other side. But, you'll make it through the other side and learn a lesson.

     Perhaps the lesson is similar to one that I myself am learning at the moment. Namely, that it's important to get to know someone a bit first, before putting your heart in their hands. Being street-smart to the fact that not everyone is a tender-heart like you are; so you got to be careful. Get to know them, without being physical. Being physical kicks-in your hormones; you get attached easier; then, fall in love. If you could have watched this man's behavior first, without being attached to him, you probably would have concluded something entirely different, than feelings of deep attachment. Perhaps you would have thought "He's a nice, successful person, with a good career. Yet, he's totally off the wall and inconsistent from one meeting to the next. I don't think I can rely on him."

     Personally, I think he sounds a little more narcissistic, than borderline. But, maybe he is. I was with a p/wBPD for a few years, and yes, they have a way of making you feel like you are crazy. For me, it was because I always gave them the benefit of the doubt and looked for the best in them. When, in reality, the best they had to give, didn't amount to much. Rather, it was all about what they could TAKE. Borderlines are very NEED oriented. So, I always looked at the person with rose-colored-glasses and expected the best. Meanwhile, they were just taking what they could get. Which in itself is a mind-bender. Because I wasn't seeing them for what they really were. But, rather, what I wanted them to be. That'll make you feel crazy, for sure.

[Hopeless777]

My answer to your question is yes, IMHO. too many  run and don't look back. Don't be like me with a life time invested ending in utter ruins.

[felix22]

Oh yes, one other obvious factor. His primary goal was to obtain 'Freedom'. He definitely sounded scared that being with you would take away his newly gained freedom. I agree with ^, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.

[Turkish]

Hi Olivia,

As Woodstock said in a way, we can take on traits from a disordered person, depending upon the situation. It's something that will fade with time.

It's good that you're seeing a T, but the answer, while correct, seems a bit pat. Are you continuing to explore this with her? His splitting behavior certainly sounds confusing, and definitely hurtful. Check out this discussion for more:

BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

When you wrote about his mother, that was a 

By saying "surrogate spouse" he's talking about something called Emotional Incest (read here for more)... .

I often felt like my Ex was too much emotionally enmeshed with her mom. Being the same gender, it was a bit different, though we have members on the Coping and Healing board (adult survivors of child abuse) for which this made little difference. That may help explain him, as it does my Ex to an extent, but it doesn't make the behavior right. It hurt you. That's your reality.

Continue to post. We have a lot of members here who can relate to this, some of whom are already jumping in to offer support. 

[Olivia_D]

WOODSTOCK, FELIX, HOPELESS, TURKISH

My therapist said something that resonated with me.  She said, yes, you will feel like the crazy one which is why I have spent 40 years talking to patients about personality disorders and unraveling the fallout from being in a relationship with one.  She went on to explain that the personality disordered people rarely, if ever, seek treatment so the bulk of her practice is addressing the trauma to significant others. 

FELIX, I have wondered if it was more narcissism or borderline as there seems to be many elements of both.  Quite frankly, it could be Bullwinkle Syndrome and it wouldn’t change a thing for me as the mind-games and seemingly utter disregard for me as a human being is what is so shocking / distressing.   There’s that part of me that needs to wrap my head around it as I have always been an intelligent “why child” who is always inquisitive and wants to understand how things work.  But, my head and heart are not on the same page.  My head is saying what the heck but that tender-heart that doesn’t want to give up on people just wants to be more loving.  I know that for my own sanity I cannot even think about taking another step closer to this man as it only bruises my heart.  I will pray for him from a great distance and keep him blocked from my life.  It is very sad but I can’t allow that in my life.  I think he is “globally” confused and it isn’t merely situational.  He used to pay that there is such a “powerful force / draw” between us that cannot be denied—it is magnetic.  I do know that he is struggling with drinking way too much.  As far as the friends with benefits, 4 times in 15 months?  I have given that thought but then thought if that were the case he wouldn’t try to avoid me, he’d be all about it and then disappear—none of this makes sense.  He did also say that he “couldn’t love.”  Maybe I just want to believe this but I think that he actually tried—maybe made his laundry list of my “qualities” and just couldn’t do it.  He just kept telling me that you are just the most amazing woman.  My platonic male friends were like what is wrong with that guy.  Now, I am a shell of the person that I was previously and have just withdrawn into my house.  It’s almost like he sucked the life out of me and my usual outgoing bubbly personality is just glum.  I don’t want to give someone that much power over my mind or my life.  I have to snap out of this and soon as he isn’t worth this heartache.   Lastly, in that famous words of Janis Joplin, “Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.”  Yes, he has his freedom.  In reality, he has his freedom as I clearly told him that I didn’t have any plans on ever getting married again, I make great money, I have grown children, not really wanting to live with someone, and that I just simply wanted a companion / genuine friendship, and that I literally had no agenda—pretty low maintenance in the “dating” department.

HOPELESS, there are too many red flags.  I made the mistake of ignoring them and/or bleaching them white.  I think I may refer to him as Mr. Ruby from now on.

TURKISH, I had specifically asked my T to boil it down to something as simple as possible so it would fit on a post-it note on my computer screen at my office to remind me to NOT contact him.  When I told him that my heart was broken, he simply and coldly said why?  I guess if you don’t bond then detachment is as easy as flipping a switch. As far as the splitting discussion, that is spot on.  Someone in that thread mentioned that there is usually one good and one bad person.  Here, he had relatively no friends that I ever heard him mention.  He only spoke of his mother.  When his mother was sick or unavailable or he was mad at her, I walked on water and he had time for me; however, when he and his Mother were together it was as-if I didn’t exist or I was dismissed—very odd.  I fully understand and appreciate his dedication to his Mother but this is far, far off the norm. They eat dinner together every single night, they travel together, they show up at weddings / funerals, et cetera as-if they are a couple.  She is older, widowed, and has a significant amount of money and he is the sole heir.  He has mentioned that his relationship with his mother brings up anger and sadness.  I would never be able to orbit around that for long, especially with her having very strong narcissistic traits where she tends to vote people off the island—that would make for a very insecure feeling to have your significant other’s mother wave her hand and you be banished.  That’s just the vibe. 

Thanks for all of your posts.  I am going to attempt to “actually” sleep.  I hope to just wake up and find that this was just a weird dream.  Olivia

[apollotech]

Olivia,

I am sorry that you got caught up in that disastrous relationship. If you replace the he with she, your relationship sounds very similar to the one that I went through. I also experienced the odd behavior from my BPDexgf after intimacy; it's called engulfment from the BPD perspective. They feel as if they'll get lost, they will lose themselves in another person, so they push away. This is due to a maladapted and/or incomplete self. It wasn't you; it was him.

If you're questioning your behavior/thoughts/feelings about the relationship, remember that a pwBPD is emotionally immature. Your exSO certainly sounds like he was acting like a child. He seems to be extremely attached to his mother. He worked to keep you two sepetated. He possibly saw you as a threat to that bond (?). Their feelings can become reality.

You're not crazy, but the crazy relationship with a pwBPD will make you think that you're crazy. My BPDexgf was very good at doing something inappropriate/wrong and then blaming the person who reacted to said wrongdoing for their inappropriate (according to her) reaction. When you question your behavior/thoughts/feelings about the relationship, be sure you put it into context with what was occurring at the time. Their behavior becomes very predictable and transparent once you understand what exactly was occurring at the time

[going places]

Gaslighting

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

www.counsellingresource.com/features/2011/11/08/gaslighting/

Google "abuse advocate _________" (in the blank write your city and state)

Seek out an advocate.

They are free of charge.

They will help you understand what happened to you, how to break free, and how to STOP the cycle of abuse in your life, forever.

I am so sorry this happened to you.

Please, seek out an abuse advocate. They are a God send.

[Trog]

Good integrity and character despite cancelling 98% of your dates! That's incredibly disrespectful of your time.

The rest reads like a long list of red flags.

I'd break it off with a girl if she cancelled two dates! This year I broke it off with a girl for being late twice!

[Achaya]

Olivia, one of the red flags that really stands out for me in your post is where you say that you sent him an email calling him on his abusive behaviors, and ended up regretted that you sent it. This happened in my last relationship as well; it is a central characteristic of abusive relationships in general. When I would try to talk to my partner about how she had hurt me, she would get really nasty, defensive, and would turn it back on me so that I ended up apologizing for saying something that hurt her. My hurt never got addressed. If I was the least bit angry, it didn't matter how clean and constructively I presented my feelings, she said I was "attacking" her. That meant she got to be the injured party every time!

[PaintedBlack28]

Hi Olivia

Sorry to hear about what happened. Dont worry about the feeling that you are the one with issues, I ended feeling the same way and to make matters worse I even started to think that she was great and I was defective.

You have to remember who you were before the interaction and remember all the great things that make you unique and special.

The behavior of this IMO very disordered person led you to confusion and to some extent the collapse of the way you see yourself. Dont allow distorted thought to cause any more devastation.

It seems to me from your writing that you are a very intelligent and down to earth person. So please get away from the madness and dont even hold any memory to it.

Cheers

[felix22]

Gaslighting

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

This article was informative and useful. Thanks g.p.!

[Olivia_D]

APOLLOTECH:

He seems to be extremely attached to his mother. He worked to keep you two sepetated. He possibly saw you as a threat to that bond (?). Their feelings can become reality.

.  To the extreme of "Manchurian Candidate" stature. At first I thought it was charming that he was so "dedicated" to his Mother when in fact he was attached / married to his Mother.  Weirdest feeling to have the "other woman" be his mother. 

GOING PLACES: [quoteGaslighting

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/][/quote]
.  It was like I had entered the Twilight Zone.  You know there's a problem when you start asking your friends is this "normal?" I kept saying to them, hey, if I am blowing this out of proportion or just missing something, please let me know, but I can't make sense of this anymore.  Several friends, who I don't see that often, said you aren't a doormat why is this guy wiping his feet on you? Snap out of it.  Gulp.

TROG: [quoteGood integrity and character despite cancelling 98% of your dates! That's incredibly disrespectful of your time.

The rest reads like a long list of red flags. I'd break it off with a girl if she cancelled two dates! This year I broke it off with a girl for being late twice!][/quote]
.  Trog, I haven't a clue WHY I FOLLOWED THE CRUMB TRAIL! This isn't like me.  I "thought" he had "integrity and character" but that's a BIG NEGATIVE.  The red flags are more like a crimson river and right now I am just totally embarrassed that I kept going back to the empty well.  As far as watching for red flags in my future dating, the thought of going on one date right now is making me shaky.  I don't know if I can trust my own judgment, that's the biggest damage.

ACHAYA: Calling him out on his abusive behavior was me hitting my limits, and I was extremely exhausted at the time.  He acted like I was the psycho.  The funny thing is is that I had never, ever said anything remotely negative to him and I guess I was supposed to be the quiet subservient woman that sat idly by for the King to call.  I don't know.  The real theme to this is he might as well as just repeatedly said "BACK TO ME" every time we spoke as that was essentially what was going on. Sick, it makes me sick.  I am embarrassed.

PAINTEDBLACK:  I know that he's very disordered and it has taken its toll on me.  I just keep thinking that while this is upsetting and traumatic in many ways, I also realize that my stuff stemming from this "relationship" will heal.  Sadly, he will be stuck in that swirling madness for the remainder of his life.  Really sad when you think about it.  My attempting to have a relationship with him was the equivalent of asking a 3 year old to do a Calculus equation.  I just wish I would have seen the 3 year old long before this point

[felix22]

Olivia,

     I don't see why you should feel embarrassed. We are all learning the same kinda stuff. No one is born with this info.

     It's perfectly natural to expect fairness from others. What's weird, is having to second guess things, and be vigilant. Try being understanding with yourself. Would you look at someone who had been through what you have and judge them harshly?

     'Take it easy, take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.' -Eagles