Refusing contact -- any experience on how this goes?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Last Thursday, my ex-fiance (we broke up a little more than three months ago), who I attend graduate school with told me she was thinking of dropping out of school at the end of the year. I think it was an attempt to draw me back in to our relationship by portraying herself to be on the brink of breakdown and helpless. I don't think she is actually going to drop out, this is just a way to get attention from me and others.

Earlier that day, she sent me an email congratulating me on a position I earned in the school, but then became upset with me when I did not respond within two hours and saw her in the library. After she told me she was thinking about dropping out, she said she would say goodbye to me at the end of the year (about a month from now). Before then, it had been about a month of no significant contact.

Today, she has called, texted and gchated me. First to ask if I wanted to get a beer with her tonight, then to say that "she kind of really needs to talk with me" but it is OK if I don't want to talk, she just needs to know, etc, etc.

I have not responded. I don't intend to respond. Does anyone have experience with doing this and if so, what might I expect?

[WindReader]

Last Thursday, my ex-fiance (we broke up a little more than three months ago), who I attend graduate school with told me she was thinking of dropping out of school at the end of the year. I think it was an attempt to draw me back in to our relationship by portraying herself to be on the brink of breakdown and helpless. I don't think she is actually going to drop out, this is just a way to get attention from me and others.

Earlier that day, she sent me an email congratulating me on a position I earned in the school, but then became upset with me when I did not respond within two hours and saw her in the library. After she told me she was thinking about dropping out, she said she would say goodbye to me at the end of the year (about a month from now). Before then, it had been about a month of no significant contact.

Today, she has called, texted and gchated me. First to ask if I wanted to get a beer with her tonight, then to say that "she kind of really needs to talk with me" but it is OK if I don't want to talk, she just needs to know, etc, etc.

I have not responded. I don't intend to respond. Does anyone have experience with doing this and if so, what might I expect?

[Targeted]

Expect more to come and a recycle!

They are great at pulling your heartstrings!

knowledge is power

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hey Windbreaker,  sorry for the stress of this.   I quit responding and my UexBPDbf contacted me abt 450 times over a 4 month period.   He hasn't yet stopped but the frequency is substantially less.   Many of his contacts were pleading and heartfelt;  many were threatening... .with mention of burning my house down and of him hanging himself.   I opted for No Response.  It has taken a while and has been stressful,  at times very stressful with me moving locations depending on his vibe/changing locks/installing security system,  etc.   But it seems to be working and nothing has escalated as a result.   I could have easily "engaged &  enraged" but opted to "wait &  watch."   This was the best option for me.   However,  I did not have to see him for any reason or work together.   He will say any &  everything to get me to respond.   But I haven't.   Were he to kill himself,  then that will be his choice.   My choice is No Response.   He insisted he only wanted one last conversation to hear me say it was over.   But I didn't trust him or that promise for one second.   Behaviorists say if we "don't put the food out" the "animal eventually quits coming around."   That has been my strategy.   My ex did not have a history of violence but was always rather relentless.   This was relentlessness to the Nth degree.   Don't know what you might expect from her,  but this was my experience.  

[WindReader]

Thanks, ReclaimingMyLife. Your approach is what I am thinking that I have to do. I am worried about her hurting herself (though she only threatened once after my psychiatrist suggested to her in a session we did together that she might benefit from returning to counseling, which was about five months ago) or otherwise doing something detrimental to her life or career. I need to accept as you have that that is her responsibility -- not mine -- even if I still care about what happens to her.

I'm bummed for you to have put up with 450 contacts over a 4 month period. I've struggled with just periodic bursts of contact, but nothing like that so far. Your strength helps me to know that I can say no, and that my happiness is important and her happiness or lack of it is her responsibility.

Onward!

[apollotech]

My own experience with my BPDexgf mirrors the experience that Reclaiming spoke of. She, my ex, was contacting me after I broke off all contact with her. She used every hook that she could come up with in order to illicit some type of response from me. (This was all occurring while my replacement was in place.) I refused all advances, never responded to anything. Eventually her contact dried to a trickle. I haven't heard a peep out of her for about a month. I am sure that she will be back, but her BS just doesn't work on me anymore.

[fromheeltoheal]

So clinically, she's triggered by the fear of abandonment, banging up against the impending 'abandonment depression', and experiencing strong emotions she can't soothe.  So what you're getting is an extinction burst, a last-ditch effort to get you back since she figures the end of the relationship is final for you.  That will eventually stop, Reclaiming's 450 is an especially ambitious effort, and the best thing you can do is act bored, uninterested, distracted, whatever, and she will eventually chase a new shiny object.  And if the communication is solely by technology, voice mails and texts, and it's bothering you, which it seems it is, maybe time to block all of that for your own peace of mind.  Whatever you do, don't express any emotion, and getting pissed off is an emotion, because that means an attachment is still in place to your ex, and she will try harder.  Take care of you!

[ta777]

My uxBPDgf dumped me for a trivial reason, kept me on the hook for weeks by talking to me, telling me she would "take me back in a heartbeat" if I tried harder until she made it official with my replacement who she was cheating on me with for months. When I found out I lashed out at her over the phone (regretfully) and told her that would be the last time we ever spoke to each other.

After that I blocked her from everything hoping to never speak to her again. She figured out she was blocked and started calling as unknown to get through he block. She continued this for more than 2 months, calling me a few times every week. I never answered her calls. She even had the nerve to call me on what would have been our four year anniversary and left me a voice message saying she was "sorry for the way she handled it" (please... .Not very heartfelt), hoping I was doing okay and that she cared for me (yeah right... .).

I continued ignoring her all those months and every time she would call and not get an answer she would go and post something on social media about me. How I never cared about her, how she wasted her education on me (which was a lie because she got kicked out of her university, but she said she came back for me ), how the replacement was better than me, etc etc. Although it hurt me it made me realize how childish she was acting, it was sad and funny at the same time. Almost as if a child was writing her smear campaign.

One time she even noticed she wasn't blocked anymore since I deleted her contact and she sent me a text message saying she was "beyond happy" with the replacement, that she left me for him because I never listened, or gave her enough attention or affection. More like because I didn't let her control me. I had spent almost every day of the week with her and it wasn't enough apparently.

Then two months after the breakup it turned to her waiting for me outside my classroom (she must have done some research to find out my schedule). She said we needed to talk because I didn't know the whole story and we both needed closure (again all about her and why she had to do it). I told her we had nothing to talk about and she continued to follow me on campus until I lost her.

That same night she continued to call me. The next morning I sent her a text, the first after the breakup, and I told her she needed to quit trying to contact me or I would report her. She had a fear of police after being caught with marijuana twice so I used this to my advantage.

During this exchange she kept blaming me for everything as usual, telling me again how happy she is with the replacement. I never asked her for any closure for any reasons, nothing, she just went off on her own. She even was nice enough to tell me about them having sex . I told her she was disgusting and blocked her once again.

That wasn't the end of it, she then sent me a final message through her cousins phone. The message was about how the replacement loves her and that she is happy and hopes I too will be happy and in love some day. She tells me she has love for me still (uh huh... .). She also said she was sorry for lying and manipulating me as I had pointed out to her but that's all it was, just "sorry". No real apology from her ever and she always denied having cheated on me even when I sent her the proof.

That's my story. It's been almost three months since that last message and I haven't heard a peep. I don't expect to hear anything from her until the replacement falls through but things seem to be lasting between them so we'll see in the future.

Sorry for the long post!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I need to accept as you have that that is her responsibility -- not mine -- even if I still care about what happens to her.

Your strength helps me to know that I can say no, and that my happiness is important and her happiness or lack of it is her responsibility.

Onward, indeed, WindReader.  First of all let me apologize for calling you Windbreaker (ha!) in my earlier post.  I wish I could blame auto-correct

Yes, everyone gets to be responsible for their own happiness.  While unnerving, I knew the threat of suicide was most likely another lie. 

The book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker kept me sane.  His facts gave me confidence in my strategy.  I had it on my phone so reached for it any second I was in doubt. 

De Becker highlights (my mantra):

* "if you tell someone ten times that you don't want to talk to him, you are talking to him/her nine mroe times than you wanted to"

*  "If you call him back after twenty messages, you simply teach him that the cost of getting a call back is twenty messages."

*  "Nothing you can say will be heard by him the way you mean it to be.  There is no straight talk for crooked people."

*  "with each response you buy another SIX weeks."

*  "... .have no contact.  Only then will he (she) begin to find other solutions to his (her) problems.

Also, the Blacklist app has been another Godsend.  I didn't have to flinch or worry every time a call came in b/c his go straight to voicemail.  He cannot get an answer. Private calls are blocked too. 

Hang in there WindReader! 

[WindReader]

Thanks, everyone. You all have helped me to get through the last 12 hours of temptation to respond to her.

Also, I just downloaded and applied a call, Gchat and text blocker. I've been thinking about doing that for a while, but didn't have the guts. One step at a time!

[WindReader]

Wow. Just went to the bathroom in the library and when I got back she was sitting in the chair next to me at the table. Then, she was surprised and shocked when I picked up my things and left. I told her I needed space and that no, we could not sit at the same table together. I slipped up a little and said, "I'm sorry," but I still left.

I had the notifications for the call blocker on by accident so I saw that she texted me wanting to just talk for a minute. I have not and will not respond to her. I have turned off the notifications now so that won't happen again.

[WindReader]

And she just emailed me saying that she has something important to tell me, and can I just give her one minute of my time.

I cannot do that. There is nothing that she has to say to me that is important to me anymore.

For anyone who reads these, thank you. It is helpful to acknowledge to others what I know I need to do.

[WindReader]

She is now asking me to talk with her so she can know what is going on with me and then she will stop contacting me. I have told her what is going on with me: I need space. If she had listened to me the last twenty times I've told her that, then she would not need to ask me now what is going on.

I will not talk to her.

[WindReader]

And, she just found me where to I moved in the library. I told her I needed space and that I could not talk. I repeated that. Then, I sat silently looking at my computer. Then, she left. I am OK. I am not a bad person for doing this. I am just taking care of myself. I should not cry. I should not dwell on this. I should move on with my day and do my studying. I will not let her ruin any more of my days with her problems.

[WindReader]

And, I just got a "Last" email from her saying she won't try to talk to me again. Here's to hoping this episode is over.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

You're doing it,  Windbreaker.   No response is no response.  You are not being mean.   You are taking care of yourself.   It is okay if you cry.   I cried a lot.   I had never cried so much in my life.  Being a target is very hard.   Her actions are mean.   Not yours.   You are not acting against her.   You are acting for yourself.   

So go easy on yourself abt your emotions.   Just not with her.   As heeltoheal said,  no emotion in front of her.   

Get the Gavin de Becker book.  Pronto(!) and go straight to chapter 8.  Seriously,  I can't tell you how much I read it to keep me sane and solid in my focus.   No matter how I felt.   And Lord,  how he pleaded,  the desperation.   Sometimes my heart just broke.    But then he'd cycle into anger and threats.   Reminding me that he would say anything.   It was manipulation.  Get the book.

And keep posting here.  My sister's knew everything so I towed the line for them even when I felt weak.   I needed that accountability.

The good news is no matter what she throws at you,  your answer is the same:  no response.   

Proud of you.   Stay the course.   As Mutt and others have said,  it will get worse before it gets better.

Sorry this sucks but you can do this.   You are doing this!   Proud of you

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Does she gave a key to your place?   Your car?  Know your passwords?   

Not sure how far she might be willing to go but good questions to ask.   

[cosmonaut]

I'm sorry to hear about this, WindReader.  I can completely understand how upsetting this must have been and how hard too.  Enforcing our boundaries is hard sometimes, especially when it may hurt someone we care about.

Just to be clear:  you've broken up (no misunderstandings there, right?) and made clear to her that you want no contact (or is she under the impression that door is still open?), right?  If both of those have been made clear to her then she is indeed violating your boundaries.  It's a difficult situation if she is showing up in person.  It's important that you be completely consistent in your message that you want no contact.  I might recommend not telling her you need space, which she might interpret as the door still being open.  Tell her you want no contact.  You did the right thing in immediately removing yourself when she showed up in person.  That's hard, but nice work there.  Be firm.  You are taking care of you right now.   

[WindReader]

Thanks, Reclaiming. Your support means a lot. I let myself cry for a minute. This is of course not what I wanted to be doing this morning, but I feel it has been a small victory for me in holding my ground.

I've been keeping my folks in the loop on no contact and they are very supportive. I leaned on them hard yesterday so I wanted to give them a break this morning.

Just ordered The Gift of Fear on Amazon. Will get here on Thursday. Thanks for the recommendation.

We live in the same neighborhood, but she does not know my address or at least I'm not aware that she does. We have common friends who could tell her, but I don't think they have. She does not know my passwords.

[WindReader]

Thanks, Cosmonaut. That is a very good point about "space" versus "no contact." I had not realized that could be misinterpreted. I had been using it in the sense of I need space to heal and move on, but that is likely not clear enough. I have told her it is forever, but not recently because she has not asked. I have been consistent in asking for space. Next time this comes around, I will use "no contact."

[WindReader]

And yes, we are definitely broken up.

[DyingLove]

Hey Windbreaker,  sorry for the stress of this.   I quit responding and my UexBPDbf contacted me abt 450 times over a 4 month period.   He hasn't yet stopped but the frequency is substantially less.   Many of his contacts were pleading and heartfelt;  many were threatening... .with mention of burning my house down and of him hanging himself.   I opted for No Response.  It has taken a while and has been stressful,  at times very stressful with me moving locations depending on his vibe/changing locks/installing security system,  etc.   But it seems to be working and nothing has escalated as a result.   I could have easily "engaged &  enraged" but opted to "wait &  watch."   This was the best option for me.   However,  I did not have to see him for any reason or work together.   He will say any &  everything to get me to respond.   But I haven't.   Were he to kill himself,  then that will be his choice.   My choice is No Response.   He insisted he only wanted one last conversation to hear me say it was over.   But I didn't trust him or that promise for one second.   Behaviorists say if we "don't put the food out" the "animal eventually quits coming around."   That has been my strategy.   My ex did not have a history of violence but was always rather relentless.   This was relentlessness to the Nth degree.   Don't know what you might expect from her,  but this was my experience.  

Reclaiming, did you ever think: "let him hurt himself if he keeps threatening."

I know you said about "don't put the food out", I'm wondering because it's like the little boy that cried wolf. When do you just say: The heck with it!

[cosmonaut]

It's a hard situation, WindReader.  It sounds like you've been pretty clear about your boundaries so far.  Mostly just checking, since I don't know the whole story.  It's hard to enforce NC with a pwBPD, because it's inevitably going to trigger their abandonment fears, and thus their clinging.  It may be bumpy for a little while, but remain absolutely firm and consistent.  We're here to support you.

[valet]

Hey WindReader, I'm sorry that you're going through all of this. It is very difficult when an ex doesn't give us a sensible amount of space to process things on our own. I went through a similar situation in my own breakup.

I think that you're handling this well. I would stress that you do actively notify her that your intentions are to go NC, echoing everyone else's statements. I found that the way that I left the door open (not official NC, just asking for 'space' was quite ambiguous, and wasn't true to what I actually needed at the time. Eventually it caused me to feel a lot of guilt, because I felt that I was punishing her without actually being clear and asking for absolute NC for a while.

My stance, generally, for these kinds of situations is notify first, THEN if your request isn't validated and acted upon take matters into your own hands to ensure your OWN emotional safety.

Great job. Keep on moving forward!

EDIT:

As for your concerns that she will hurt herself, that is out of your hands. This is a difficult fact to accept. I thought of it this way: say in (x) years down the line she hurts herself. Your relationship to that event is most likely irrelevant, therefore no guilt required. pwBPD experience emotional pain in very dramatic cycles. You just happen to be caught in one now, it seems. Maybe that will help you depersonalize your fears.

I had the same fears with my own ex, because those behaviors do indeed happen in a pwBPD, but I looked at her history logically (no self-harm, or anything of that nature) and came to the conclusion that she would be just fine on her own for a while. Has she ever self-harmed, or mentioned it to you at all?

[WindReader]

Hi everyone, this is good advice about making clear that I want no contact. She told me on Thursday that she wouldn't be talking to me until the end of the school year. Then, yesterday she was back in touch again wanting me to get a drink with her that same day, saying it would be fun. Every interaction we've had at school has been both fleeting and obviously deeply uncomfortable for me.

When she got in touch with me yesterday, I just couldn't handle the thought of engaging her in any conversation, even to tell her know. On April 12, I had also requested that we never again communicate by text or Gchat due to the great possibility of miscommunication. In that same email, I said that I did not want to have any contact outside of the hopefully polite interactions in passing while we were at school. In response to that email she said, "I'm sorry for contacting you. You won't be hearing from me again).

That's the email and response that I've been referring back to for support in not communicating with her now, plus the unpredictable nature of her threats (example: I'm not going to talk to you for a month, but then I will ask you to get a drink with me three days later).

That said last Thursday, she had sat down next to me and then asked me to walk around the library with her. She had not contacted me in a month and I thought it might be possible that we could lessen the tension at school. Then, she was asking me if I wanted to come over and why I wasn't talking to her when she sat down at the table and why I had not responded to her email earlier that morning. I said that I needed space to move on, that I wasn't trying to be mean, that I just needed space. Then, she started to ask me why and I said that I could not talk about the relationship. That was it.

Do you all think I should respond to her "Last email" making clear that I want no contact indefinitely or just let it lie as is? Cosmonauts and Valet's comments have me thinking that I have not been as clear as I should be.

[WindReader]

Better chronology

April 12 : Last substantive contact. Wrote in email did not want contact outside polite interaction at school.

May 7: Sat down next to me in library. Eventually got upset I wasn't paying attention to her and had not responded to her email. Asked me to go on walk around library, which I foolishly agreed to. I was extremely uncomfortable. I told her I wanted space and wasn't trying to be mean. She asked me if I wanted to come over to her house sometime and seemed like she wanted to talk about our relationship. I said no. She said she wouldn't talk to me again until the end of the year.

May 10: Asked me if I want to get a drink that night via text. Then, calls and gchats when I don't respond. Texts again that night pleading for me to communicated with her because she needs it. I did not respond.

May 11 (today): see above

[apollotech]

Hi WindReader,

Unfortunately the contact situation, especially in your case since y'all are on the same campus together, is only partially under your control. If you feel that you need to clarify with her you position (boundary) regarding NC then do so, but don't expect said clarification to be a 100% solution as her behavior represents half of the NC equation. If she is afflicted with BPD, she is not going to readily dissolve the attachment to you until all possible hooks have been played and rejected (example: Reclaiming's 450 received contacts from her exSO over a 4 month period). In other words, your exSO will probably ignore your NC boundary and continue to contact you until she decides that to continue contacting you is futile.

[cosmonaut]

Put yourself in her shoes (or some third party).  Read back over what you have written.  Is it clear what your boundary is?

[WindReader]

Thanks, Cosmonaut and Apollotech. I think my intentions are clear to myself, perhaps not to her. If she were paying attention to how I looked when I do end up speaking to her on campus, then it would be clear that contact is unwanted. The reality of having to see each other every day at school makes it difficult. I'm not going to frown at her when I see her in passing; I wouldn't do that to anyone.

I think no contact is impossible for my situation. Unless one of us leaves school, we cannot avoid contact. I need to live with that.

For now, I'm going to stick with speaking through my actions.

[Madison66]

Hi WindReader,

I feel for what you're going through.  It must be really hard to see your ex gf at school and have to deal with her repeated attempts to break n/c.  Stay strong in taking care of yourself and living your values, and it will get better.

I can relate in that I am 18 months removed from a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  The constant chaos of the r/s, the covert and overt emotional abuse/blackmail and eventual physical abuse took a great toll on me.  I attempted to leave the r/s three times before I finally left for good.  Each time my gut was screaming at me to distance myself from the chaos, but I caved each time.  I give you so much credit for staying strong and being true to yourself.  My ex gf used different tactics to lure me back (sex, fear, her kids, illnesses, etc.).  Each time I went back to the r/s, the chaos and abuse got worse and eventually turned physical.  No need for details, but the rough part was that she rented a home on my block (I own my home) and I dealt with about eight months of repeated attempts to break n/c.  At times I just thought "God must have a wacky sense of humor" with the things I dealt with.  The hardest thing was to maintain n/c from her three young kids.  It was a bad situation and she finally moved away six months after the b/u.  There were three overt attempts to break n/c upon or after her move and I stayed strong in my resolve to recover and detach.  I knew that I couldn't deal with her actions any longer and that my focus was inward and with living my life.  There was a random text in December, but no contact since.

Fast forward about a year and I can tell my life has changed radically.  I learned a lot about myself and what I want from a r/s.  The most important r/s is with myself.  I live my life based on my values and self love and acceptance are front and center.  Just as in your situation, there is no "bad guy" here.  The decision I made and the one you made to take of ourselves will have ripple effects on our lives and our loved ones lives for years to come.  I encourage you to also talk to a T for help with your recovery/detachment and also for additional tips in how to handle the attempted breaks of n/c.  My T was HUGELY helpful!  Good luck!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hi WindReader,

Wondering how the rest of your day has gone.  Fingers crossed it has been uneventful! 

I think your plan to "stick with speaking through [your] actions" is a good one.  Is it possible that saying you "need space" is less than ideal?  Yes, probably.  But you told her on April 12 you wanted no more contact other than polite interaction at school.  So she has been informed.  Was walking around the library less than ideal as well?  Yes, probably, in hindsight, you wouldn't do this again. But these things are tricky and confusing and catch us off guard.  So don't beat yourself up about it and do not let these "missteps" be a reason to respond.  In hindsight, I would have changed the way I delivered my NC message.  But I was feeling my way through an insanely difficult and emotional situation for which I was totally unprepared.  I did the best I could. 

I goofed along the way, for sure.  He showed up at work one day.  My surprise, anger and frustration got the best of me.  I engaged more than I should have.  If I could do that over again I would have been cool as a cucumber and not let him get to me at all.  But that can be very hard to execute in the moment of distress.  So, we are learning along the way.  Sometimes we nail it and sometimes we don't! 

But, I got very good at not responding.  And this is what mattered most.  Not responding day after day, contact after contact after 450 contacts. 

Your plan to not frown at her is a good one.  No emotion - positive or negative - that she can see. 

I cannot tell you how very different I feel at this point than when it all began 5 months ago. I still must be attentive but today is drastically better.  The tears are gone.  The wistfulness and longing is gone.  The fantasy glasses that clouded my judgement during the r/s and b/u are off.  It was very hard along the way.  Felt impossible.  But it is not. Amen!

No response was key.  Most recently, I have progressed much more quickly by not revisting any of his texts/emails/voicemails.  I gave that up for 60 days and the payoff has been enormous.  When I felt tempted, I wrote here instead. 

Proud of you!  Just keep doing what you are doing.  Lean on your family.  Lean on us.  We're here with you!