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[toolong31]

Hi.  I am a 35 year old only child of a borderline-histrionic mother.  My father passed away in 2012.  I did not begin understanding my mother's negative influence until I was about 29.  I began analytic psychotherapy (with a Jungian-based analyst), and this analyst helped me realize my mother's power.  After I had a child at 31, my mother's personality intensified to the point that I could barely withstand being around her.  She seemed to not be able to accept the fact that I was now a mother.  

She criticizes excessively, attempts to sabotage my relationship with my husband, attempts to control my everyday decisions, talks over me in conversation, cannot tolerate any negative feelings I may have, all under the auspices of "adoring me," and being a "doting" mother.  "You are my life" she used to say.  Any attempt I made at assertion was met with anger or coldness;  she perceived it as a betrayal.  But there is nothing I can really do to make her content.  She is chronically unhappy.  She truly trusts no one.  She is always on the lookout for someone to deceive her, and tries to convince me that, at any given moment, my husband and closest friends could deceive me.

I could go on and on... .but here's a start.  Thanks you in advance for sharing your experiences.

[toolong31]

Today I realized that some of the lingering positive beliefs I have about my mom are not real.  Since she has begun a new dating relationship with a man who is very attentive and showers her with praise, she has basically stopped calling me (which in itself is a relief).  For the first time ever, she did not immediately return a call I made to her recently (I only called because she had been sick the day before).  When she called me back the next day, she barely let me get a word in because she was describing in detail her date the day before.  She then proceeded to ask me if my husband was mad at her because he acted that way on Mother's Day.  I just said no and changed the topic (major emotional boundary I've set up).  After the conversation ended, I had a sadness/emptiness that I couldn't articulate at first.  Then I realized that she never asks me about me, the things that are important to me, how I'm feeling emotionally, how the important people in my life are doing, etc... .  And I believe this is because she actually does not care.  These things don't help her any.  In fact, when I do spontaneously offer this type of information (rarely), she seems to prickle, say something negative... .or just say "Oh that's nice... .and changes the subject.  I've always sensed envy from her... .but it hurt today to realize that she does not care about me.  And the irony is that she would defend her heroic love for me (sarcasm) like a champ to me or anyone who questioned it.  People who think they know my mom would say that she adores me and would do anything for me.  My friends who really know her (who have borderline moms themselves) see right through it. 

I've been mourning the loss of my mom (my enmeshed closesness with her) for about 4 years... .but the losses continue.  It seems this man she's dating has, perhaps temporarily, taken my place for giving her attention.  She even says that she is not interested in him romantically, but "enjoys the attention... .and has fun."  Poor man, he has no idea. 

My biggest challenge is that, if she wasn't a widow and "in love" with my 4 year old daughter, I'd definitely go "NC."  In fact I'd go NC even if she was just a widow.  But I feel like it would be cruel to do that at this point in my life.  I also continue to allow her to pick up my daughter from preschool once a week, and will need her help in picking her up from a 2 week camp this summer when I have our second child.  I'm trying to wean her off of "responsibilities" with my kids, but if I didn't let her do anything for them, it was be blatantly obvious that I couldn't stand her.  I try to show her that I will give her my time if she respects my boundaries (which she is frequently testing).  I fear that she will decompensate when the second child is born in late June.  She's jealous of my in laws, hates my husband, and will attempt to be needed since I will be in what she considers a vulnerable state (having a C-section).  It's like I want to keep her feeling needed a little to avoid the fallout... .  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[Turkish]

Hi toolong31,

It sounds like you know what you need to do, and are trying (enforcing boundaries), but seperating yourself from a lifetime of enmeshment is what you're struggling with. Added to that is the stress of your impending c-section. Do you think she will ask to be in the operating room?

What sounds concerning as well is the "in love" comment about your D4. It sounds like she may try the same tactics on her granddaughter, though physical distance (different houses) is a good initial boundary. What's the downside of enforcing more boundaries?

Turkish

[toolong31]

Thanks for the reply.  She has not asked to be in the OR.  In some small but important ways, she has adjusted to my boundaries over the last 4 years.  But she will let everyone know how hurt she is when I don't want her to help me in all the ways SHE wants to help me.  "Helping" is her way of knowing details of what's going on in my family and exerting some influence.  So I'm only going to ask for help in a select few situations. 

The downside of enforcing more boundaries is more hate and anger from her.  She's relentless.  It's a delicate balance that I have to achieve to preserve my own peace of mind.  Prayer and the grace of God is a tool I have now that I didn't use enough in the past. 

I expect/dread her emotional residue to be everywhere the first few weeks after the birth... .for my first child, she was incredibly angry and cold for about 4 months.  She even criticized my appearance, my mothering, my choices... .she engaged in screaming matches with me.  She had (still has) and almost delusional belief that me and my husband strategically kept her away from the baby in the hospital.  It was actually due to the fact that I had an emergency C-section, but no amount of explaining hospital protocol (such as the OB unit being locked) would convince her otherwise. 

I have chosen to never have a "fight" with her again.  I avoid any emotionally charged discussion, but this is almost impossible as she so often tries to start one.  Lately, since she got off her antidepressant "cold turkey" and against doctor's advice for the 4th time in 2 years, the raw, cruel edge to her personality is back in full force.  It frankly scare the p--- out of me.  I can't handle her anger, and I feel like it's going to explode soon.  She's very jealous that my in laws have been visiting more, and will be staying at my house while we are in the hospital with the baby.  I'm afraid of a confrontation.  I've asked her to please not start a fight with them.  They, especially my father in law, have their own serious Cluster B personality issues.  They pretty much hate each other, and avoid each other.  But if confronted by my mom, they'd be vicious in return (they have in the past). 

I've had to set up some boundaries with them as well, and we've reached a sort of mutual understanding of what I'll tolerate.  In a nutshell, they are rigid about what, when, how they do things when they visit us, insist on staying in our house (that's MIL, FIL, 27 year old SIL, and their dog) every time they visit, are disrespectful, moody, etc.  My mom knows this, but still tells me that they manipulate me and to "watch my back."  She even thinks my FIL is a pedophile who may harm my daughter (there's absolutely no indication of this).

My mom and in laws get to see a lot of each other in the next 6 weeks at my daughter's recital, birthday party, and the baby's birth.  Yay!     I'm just going to try to be as patient and strong as possible, because I know that all of their negativity is their problem, even when it's projected onto me and my husband.  In the past, I've lost my temper with all of them (after letting my anger build up over days to weeks).  I know that's the worst thing I can do... .but it's so hard.  Any suggestions on how to express anger mildly to avoid it building up?  Other than "I" statements... .which I find make me more emotional!

Thanks!

[Turkish]

That's quite a few people that you need to "manage." The sad thing is that everyone should be managing themselves. You're the mother, and you're the pregnant one.

It's interesting that you feel that "I" statements trigger you, as if you have trouble asking to be heard?

On the other side, "I" statements can be triggering to emotionally limited people. We do have a lot of communication tools here developed specifically for these situations. Check out this thread for a summary:

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

The simplest to grasp is SET (Support, Empathy, Truth). Validation (see here for more) goes a long way. For me, I find validation also gives me emotional distance. Like: "it's certainly upsetting that the hospital rules don't allow someone to be in the OR during an emergency... ." and leave it at that. If she wants to rage, she can do so somewhere else. No explaining, it uses 3rd person, and sets up an implicit boundary by sounding impersonal, yet still empathetic.

Not using JADE is also a mindset that can be good to practice:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205038.msg12280854#msg12280854

Does Attacking her ever win an argument?

When you Defend yourself, does she ever accept what you say as the truth?

How about when you Explain yourself? Does that ever calm her down?

Think about it - how's JADE'ing been working out for you?


When faced with untrue accusations it feels natural to want to defend yourself. To explain yourself. After all, no one wants to hear lies and distortions of the truth.

The problem is that JADE rarely works. It often makes things worse. She won't believe you because as soon as you start justify/attacking/defending/explaining yourself her own defense mechanisms kick in and she can't process what you say. You see, she can't accept being wrong. Her version of what happened is her truth. Her feelings are her facts. She hears your JADE as blame and criticism, and to her blame and criticism feels unbearably painful. She blocks out painful information by attacking and shifting the blame onto you instead.

Take a look at some of this (I know it's a lot) and let me know if you think it can help.

[toolong31]

Turkish, thanks for your responses.

I have explored the site, and read about SET, PUVAS, and DEARMAN.  I can see how they'd be helpful for someone who is willing to listen.  My mom is not only unwilling to listen to me for more than a few seconds at a time, but she is also too smart, and would detect me going into "psychobabble" mode.  Here's the clincher:  I actually trained as a psychiatrist, graduating in 2010.  I haven't worked this year in order to be a "full time mom."  So she knows I know stuff.  She doesn't respect it.  Still says things about not being a "real doctor."

So I have to be as natural as possible.  I read about Medium Chill on the messageboard, which I guess is someone's informal, but tried and true, method for talking to their own BPD mom.  A version of Medium Chill is what I have figured out to do over the years.  They fleshed it out and gave me some new ideas.  I also mix in some SET-type responses, especially when the situation is objectively unpleasant for all involved. 

Not sure what my deal is with I statements.  My husband doesn't respond well to them.  When I use them, I feel like I'm whining sometimes.  I think you hit on something when you asked if I had trouble "being heard."  I really want to be heard, but I am painfully aware of how my mom is incapable of genuinely understanding me.  Often my husband is too.  Thankfully, I have several close women friends who do understand me. 

I also really don't care if I'm heard by my mom.  I used to care a lot.  But, as your awesome quote affirms, I value myself for who I am, not who she thinks I am. 

Do you have experience with Medium Chill? 

Toolong31

[Turkish]

Sometimes I think the hardest thing to struggle with is validating ourselves, especially f we grew up in an invalidating home, being told how to feel or whom to be, explicitly ("You're not a real doctor"   or implicitly (walking on eggshells to avoid rage, or stuffing our feelings).

I don't have experience with medium chill, though I've heard of it.

The doctor comment must be grating, and perhaps painful. I moved out of my mom's house 25 years ago. I won't clutter your thread by listing my accomplishments, but my mom still thinks in a way sometimes that haven't "made it." A few years ago, she was suggesting I go back to school to pursue a nursing degree (to be like her, despite the fact that she complained about Nursing my whole childhood). I clickex open a spreadsheet and showed her my retirement account balance and said, "I think I'm doing ok." Her jaw kind of dropped and she hasn't brought it up since.

Despite that, it's hard not to be emotionally triggered when we're invalidated.

Have you read Lawson's book, Understanding The Borderline Mother?

[toolong31]

Turkish--

Love the retirement spreadsheet story!  Good for you.     

I have read Lawson's book.  It was incredible.  My therapist gave it to me towards the end of 5 years of weekly analytic psychotherapy (depth psychologist, not Freudian) that taught me more about myself than I'd learned all my life.  It ended mainly because I moved to a different state.  Where I live now, I'd have to travel about 45 min. to get to an analyst.  I do intend to start again when my youngest starts school. 

Thanks for the support!

toolong31