Tips for Reconciliation Needed - she wants to give it a shot

[ravfour4]

Summarized version of our relationship, break-up and recent happenings

-Met girl who I thought was amazing. Made me feel like a god. We were both 21.

-Learned she had a bad childhood and was in a very abusive relationship. Family also had history of anxiety disorders.

-Dated for 4 years, full of extreme highs and lows. The highs made it worth it.

-Started butting heads over everything, could never get through to her or find a common ground. Probably due to something I said that triggered her fear of abandonment.

-Pretty sure she lined up another guy (married older man, going through a divorce - something she despised before) while with me and went to him instantly afterwards so she felt minimal to zero pain. She also quit her job and withdrew from friends, started drinking a lot as well. Hated me for "making her" smoke mary jane throughout our relationship. HA!

-Lied to me constantly about it while we lived together. Does this all while my dad (who she loved and he loved her) is passing away. Had to push her out after trying multiple times. She took forever to get her stuff and didn't want to give the keys back. Continued lying about this guy (because it's embarrassing). Turned me into the devil, basically said I deserved it.

-Right when I'm about to get my keys back, says she still loves me, tells her boyfriend that (she never admitted it was her bf until now), we plan a date for Friday and then the whole thing crumbles apart as he goes crazy trying to get her back. She goes back

-I go 11 days with no contact. I finally can see things clearly, I know how much I cared about her and I let her convince me it was all my fault when it wasn't.

She breaks NC and wants to give it a shot

-On day 11, she uses our dog's bday as an excuse to come over and is very nice on the phone for once. She admits she doesn't like this guy, starts apologizing, ignores his calls in front of me, says she misses us etc. I tell her to stop torturing this other guy and to get her "___" together and let me know what she wants.

-The next day (yesterday), she calls, says she broke things off with the other guy last night, deleted each other's numbers, apologizes for everything, said she has no idea why she did what she did, takes responsibility for bundling her emotions without telling me, for getting mad but saying "I don't know why", for all the terrible things she did to me, recognizes I may never be able to forgive her, but wants us to give it a chance and take things very slow. She goes home to tell her mom about it.

-She calls me later in the day for 35 min and again for an hour. We text a bit and I cut it off since we DO need to go slow.

-Today she calls again this morning to chat, still very nice and we mention that we're happy we're talking again. We plan to hang out this Saturday casually at a farmer's market.


I know a few things:

-I need to remember how much she hurt me.

-I need to use what I've learned about BPD to set clear boundaries and better understand her emotional state

-I need to tread carefully and keep my guard up until she proves otherwise to me.


Any other tips, suggestions?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[gomez_addams]

Summarized version of our relationship, break-up and recent happenings

-Dated for 4 years, full of extreme highs and lows. The highs made it worth it.

Did the highs make it worth keeping the relationship?  Or did the lows made it worth terminating and ceasing all contact.

-Started butting heads over everything, could never get through to her or find a common ground. Probably due to something I said that triggered her fear of abandonment.

... .could never get through to her or find a common ground... .due to something I said... .

Sounds like your blaming yourself for failing to be the perfect boyfriend.  I'm still learning BPD, and I still beat myself up for failing to say the right thing.  Every single time I try to find common ground or get through to her, I say the wrong thing and trigger her.  It's almost as if there is no correct thing to say... .as if... .as if... .trying to get through to her, and trying to find common ground is the trigger.  And I can't be in a relationship where trying to find common ground is taboo and leads to unacceptable behavior.  Thus, the divorce.

-I go 11 days with no contact. I finally can see things clearly, I know how much I cared about her and I let her convince me it was all my fault when it wasn't.

It's obvious you care about her.  That's noble.  And I know it hurts.  Everyone on this board knows it hurts.  But you're telling us that you just took the blame.  Get used to it.  It's what they do.

She breaks NC and wants to give it a shot

She didn't break NC.  You did.  Just because someone calls, rings the doorbell, e-mails, texts, send something via carrier pigeon doesn't mean you have to respond.  Or that the response can't be a polite brush off.  I'm no expert.  At least half the time that I've limited my contact with the stbx was me being passive aggressive, and about me trying to heal.  I was trying to get her to change her behavior by not answering her e-mails/texts/phone calls.  Someone posted https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm as a reference.  When the divorce is finalized, I'm moving on and never speaking to her again.  Because I need to heal.  If she e-mails, I'll deleted without reading it.

-She calls me later in the day for 35 min and again for an hour. We text a bit and I cut it off since we DO need to go slow.

-Today she calls again this morning to chat, still very nice and we mention that we're happy we're talking again. We plan to hang out this Saturday casually at a farmer's market.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if you met a girl on the street for the very first time, and over the past 48 hours (or however long) and you spoke on the phone three times for almost two hours and made a date for Saturday, would you call it "going slow"?  Because if she was super nice, there's a chance I might get lucky.  

Don't get her pregnant.  She'll end up with custody of your kid.

We've never met, and it's just advice from some dude on the internet whose life is a complete mess, and is about to -- get this -- have zero freaking dollars saved in the past 3 years despite making over $250K.  I used to save about 1/3 of my salary.  After next month I will have less net worth than when I married her.  I will have a tv and a couch and two end tables and a bi-weekly appointment with a therapist.  For $250K.

I use the money as an example to show how much I've deviated from who I am.  I used to be the thrifty guy that socked away extra money because he had plans.  Now I'm the guy that doesn't want to trigger, so I make excuses for her irresponsible spending.  And I feel bad, because she has no job.  And she has all that college debt.  And I don't have an assertive bone in my body.

And I'm probably going to have to work an extra two years at a job I no longer love just to get my savings back up to where they were in 2012.

Last night I wanted to hold her.  What the heck is wrong with me?

I'd run if I were you.  But I'm a little bitter right now so take it with a grain of salt.  You obviously have very deep feeling for this woman, and she is capable of meeting some need within you that you crave.

Is that need a healthy need?  Maybe work on figuring that out with her out of the picture for a while.

Gomez

ps -- sorry if I came across like a jerk.

[gomez_addams]

I realize this post is in the "Staying and Improving" board, and I was possibly out of line with my feedback.  I do apologize for not being helpful with specifics on how to stay and improve... .

I'll be more thoughtful in the future.

Gomez

[ravfour4]

haha Gomez it's all good, it sounds like you've been through a lot and I don't mind hearing a brutally honest opinion.

The highs (as we all know) were very high. What happened was that she eventually sort of shut down emotionally, I think because of 2 main factors:

1) I made some comment such as "you have to be able to do the laundry if you're going to ever be my wife", I'm no chauvinist, she literally just NEVER did her own laundry. I remember her being furious about this and things went downhill after. This was 2.5-3 years in.

2) She considers me much smarter, in general, and I work at a tech company with lots of young smart women that she was jealous I'd migrate to. Mind you, I was plenty happy with her.

I tried to get through to her over and over, but eventually just got fed up with it, was smoking a lot of mary jane and distanced myself. I also kissed a girl when I was hammered, I felt terrible, I had never done anything like that and admitted it right away. I think this all led to the eventual break-up and potential cheating and her big fear of being left by me first.

She called me today and we went to the mall, she helped me pick out a bunch of new clothes. I learned a few things:

1) It was fun, I missed her, she made me feel good, but it wasn't worth the constant angst and sadness I felt for 3 months. It wasn't THAT great.

2) She's definitely not the person I thought I knew. She's acting like we're a new couple, she doesn't seem to have the 4 year love that I gained for her over time.

I agree it's not super slow, it's just not jumping into bed together and being bf/gf again right away which could have happened. I'm still tentative, it's nice to have her back in my life to an extent, but I can't forget all the pain she caused me and could cause me again.

[paintingitblack]

If you do really love her, and thinks she really loves you. That's not everything but that's a start. The true question is if you get back with her what will have changed? You have no way of knowing if she has changed but you can know if you have changed. Don't fall back into the same trap. Set up boundaries and stick to them. Let her know this. Let her know if you give it a second shot things must be different for you. I find with borderlines they often can be a lot of talk with their actions not backing up their words long term. They mean them when they say them but may not mean them even a few days later. For change to occur in the relationship you have to be that driving force.

Your words however have to be backed up by actions. To be the stable force the relationship needs. Stand up for yourself and don't allow yourself to be disrespected again. If you don't think you have it in you to end things with her if (notice I said if not when) this happens again then I do not think you should get back with her. You are not ready until you have the strength on your end to call it quits if she crosses boundary lines.

[formflier]

If you do really love her, and thinks she really loves you. That's not everything but that's a start.

And... .this will be your source of hope... .and strength.

Strength will be needed to push yourself to learn (and use) the tools to help the r/s be better this time... .than last time. 

  You are not ready until you have the strength on your end to call it quits if she crosses boundary lines.

I was very lucky that I had some senior people "get to me" when I was learning about boundaries... .and the notion that consistency is key... .sunk in. 

Choose boundaries carefully... .once chosen... .stick with them.  Intermittent reinforcement is worse that not having a boundary at all.

Read that again... .it is true!

FF

[Notwendy]

I don't know if you are old enough to remember those magic erase toys. I think they are all electronic now, but there were a couple where you could draw a picture, and lift up the page and *poof* drawing gone.

My H didn't break up with me but he basically left the marriage by not acting in any kind of loving manner, insisting on coming and going as he pleased, and being verbally abusive for several years when he painted me black. Perhaps he didn't leave for the same reason I didn't: we had small children. I don't know what I would have decided if it was different circumstances, but I also know that he didn't reveal the full picture of this until I was pregnant with kids and not in a position to leave easily.

Then for some heaven knows why reason, he came back and was super loving man of my dreams. I think this is the closest I have experienced to the recycle people talk about here. Before him, I dated some guys but if we broke up, we broke up, that was it. Not the leaving- returning cycles I read about here. At any rate, this painting me white didn't last, but neither has the full paining me black years. can't explain that either except that I have done a lot of personal work on my end as to my part in it.


For years though, I wanted answers. Why did he do this? What was he thinking? His idea was "I'm good now, no sense in going back, we start over from this as if it never happened. Ditto with the rages " that was yesterday, today we start over" or " I start every day with a clean slate you should too". For a while I was willing to buy into his ideas, and accept the blame that it was my "thinking too deeply, you're always brooding about something, stop living in the past" . I agree with not obsessing, but this "magic erase it never happened " idea doesn't fly with me either.

BPD mom does the same things. Now, she is elderly and the times she has raged, painted me black, then acted as if nothing happened and we are all lovey dovey mother daughter the next moment have happened so many times I can't count them.

I consider it a miracle when they show a tiny bit of remorse, awareness of their actions. I am not certain how aware they are- if they project and deny them or they are so afraid to admit them out of fear of abandonment. But the "apology" doesn't get too extensive or deep. Once I called my mother on something she said, and the apology was " I think I might have sorta possibly said something"    Really, but this was a big big step.  We did not get to this step until I had a lot of personal T as to not be reactive to her. I would have gotten angry back without that. When I was growing up, I lived in absolute terror of her rages. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that my anger at her scared her too.

I now know that my H regrets the times he painted me black, but he won't really discuss it. I think to admit this creates so much shame on the part of someone with BPD that it is painful.   Our marriage T basically told me to stop asking- I think she recognized that it wasn't something he could do, and to acknowledge that these apologies are as sincere as they can be and just move on. Part of my relationship with them means I accept them as they are, but this doesn't mean I tolerate being treated poorly if they do it again.

For your GF to reenter your life as if you are a couple with no past isn't unusual. This is the "magic erase" method of reconciliation. From my experience, going back into the past with her is unlikely to be productive. I have done this countless times with both my H and mother- expecting that this is it, the bad stuff is over, but that lasts about as long as the next trigger/rage/painted black stage.

If your idea of reconciling is different- then IMHO, stick to your ideas. She will either wait it out or push the boundary or both, however, you have the right to your own style of reconciliation. On the other hand, you will need to accept that she is who she is, this is her way, and if she has BPD the ups and downs/ white/black/push/pull cycles are a part of who they are.

[formflier]

For years though, I wanted answers. Why did he do this? What was he thinking? His idea was "I'm good now, no sense in going back, we start over from this as if it never happened. Ditto with the rages " that was yesterday, today we start over" or " I start every day with a clean slate you should too". For a while I was willing to buy into his ideas, and accept the blame that it was my "thinking too deeply, you're always brooding about something, stop living in the past" . I agree with not obsessing, but this "magic erase it never happened " idea doesn't fly with me either.

Note... .in my r/s... .this is said as well.  However... .my wife will "got to he past"... .whenever she feels like it.  Even though countless times she has agreed to not do this in counseling.  And... .she will change details of the past... .and stick to those details... .even in the face of hard evidence. 

Such as... .she has a memory of "catching" me sneaking into an airport... .to make it seem like I just landed... .when I had come home earlier to spend some time with some woman that I supposedly have a child with.  She knows this because she remembers how many checked bags I picked up and there were oriental children standing next to me.

Note:  This version of the story didn't appear until well after a year had passed.  Well... .I don't remember anything about children... .but my frequent flier records show my comings and goings... .as well as number of bags checked.  Showing her this sent it nuclear... .because I obviously was involved with someone at the airline... .so they would doctor the records.  This was all "pre bpdfamily"... .I hadn't even heard of BPD... .so I used to "prove her wrong" all the time.  Did quite a bit of damage to the r/s by doing this.

Feelings equals facts... .  I used to try and fight this... .because I don't think that way.  Here is the thing... .my wife does think that way

I ignore that at my own peril... .luckily... .I don't ignore that much anymore.

So... .long winded way of saying... .don't discuss or deal with crazy.  Doesn't mean you have to break up.  Just don't participate. 

Also... .I was a guy that was a religious "do unto others and you would have them do unto you... ."  "good for the goose is good for the gander... ."  This concept doesn't exist in BPD land.  If you try to "make" things equal... .there is lots of frustration in your future.

Good thread... .keep it going.



FF

[Notwendy]

I get accused of this by my H. He says " I don't remember all the things you do but you remember everything and like to bring it up in my face whenever you feel like it"

I have found that some of his memory things are a bit odd too, but he hasn't accused me of having another spouse and kids   . FF - I know it wasn't funny at the time, but yes, there are kids in an airport. That doesn't mean they are yours.

He has accused me of things that afterwards I think " Huh was that me? " and I think that I was there but his experience of what was going on was very different.

One thing I have learned is that we can be in the same place at the same time and not be experiencing things in any similar manner.

I have just stopped bringing up anything from the past. It's over, and also it is probably so distorted that there isn't much point.

The "do unto others" ideal is really at this point for my own ethical standards. I have to be able to live with myself. I try to live up to this, even if others don't. However, I do think we have the right to protect ourselves and have boundaries too.

Silence is Golden... .

[ravfour4]

I'm still pretty skeptical about everything, but I'm open to seeing how it goes. It's great being able to talk to her again, but that married dude keeps calling her every so often, saying she's depressed and he knows why she's doing what she's doing (little does he know, she actually has BPD, I'm 90%+ certain) and saying that there are a bunch of reasons they can't be together. I'm like... .there are 1000 reasons you shouldn't be with him, you don't need more. And I still can't believe that a 33 year old man with 2 kids who is living with his wife is fighting for an unstable 25 year old who's broken up with like 4 times now in 3 months... .he's just as crazy.

She should just be ignoring his calls, but she isn't. They "broke-up" on Monday and she's called me multiple times a day since then, but he supposedly called and texted Tuesday night after her and I had texted for a bit. At least she's being honest, but due to her recent crazy behavior, I can only trust her as far as I can throw her. I've let her do all the contact initiating and she replies instantly when I reply, but she's still not 100% sure what she wants. She said she wants to take things slow and just keep hanging out and see what happens. She looked like she was loving me yesterday when I tried on new clothes, but it was just so weird being with someone who "reset" after getting so close over 4 years.

If she hops into it fully, I'm confident I can set strong boundaries and keep her "in-line", being willing to break it off if she crosses those boundaries. I want to tell her - stop talking to this guy or I'm not hanging out with you anymore, but I'm not sure if that constitutes "taking it slow" or if she'll see that as controlling.

She's recognizing she's crazy though, if it works, I hope I can build up trust again and eventually enroll her or us in therapy.

[formflier]

 

Beware of getting in an unhealthy triangle?  Have you done any reading on that?  There is some info in the lessons.

How do you feel about your ability to create and hold to boundaries? 

If there are going to be multiple people in a r/s... .this is very important... .very... .

More later.

FF

[Notwendy]

You asked why a 33 year old married man with 2 kids gets involved with a 25 year old unstable woman? Maybe this man is unstable too.

I can't guess what others are up to, but knowing that your GF is involved with someone else and still in contact is something to consider.

[ravfour4]

He's definitely unstable, why else would he want a crazy 25 year old girl who still has feelings for her ex (me) around.

She was with him for a few months, told him she had feelings for me and we were going to go on a date. He berated her with calls, visits, flowers etc. and we eventually called the date off. Then she came back and said she missed me a ton, was sorry for what she did and that her and this other guy will never work out and that she really wanted to go on that date with me. She said she was done with it, but he contacted her Tuesday night trying to get back again, she was honest about it and has been flirty/nice to me.

For the first time in like 15 days, I just initiated contact first via text and after not hearing a response for a little while - I felt myself going back to panic mode ("oh no, she's going back to being insane again, maybe he called again last night and charmed her back" etc.). That is a feeling that I HATED having for the past few months. I need to focus on me and keep that panic etc. out of my mind. I just need her to be consistent for a few weeks/months to regain trust, but I'm not sure if she's capable.

I asked her how her day was, she replied "___ty, I f'ed something up"... .better be work related... . otherwise I'm outta here.

[formflier]

 

Interesting... .

So... .my advice is to focus on the person you want to have a r/s with... .she may... .or may not  have other r/s (romantic or not) with other people... .that is her choice. 

It's not someone else's choice (or job) to talk her into or out of things.

If she is amenable to being talked into and out of things (by you... .or anyone else... .) are you ok with being in a r/s with someone like this? 

I may be missing something here... .but she seems open to suggestion... .if that is who she is... .and what she is... .then you have a known quantity... .and can decided if a person like that is who you want to be with.

If I'm missing something... .or way off base... .set things straight ... .no harm... .no foul.

Thoughts?  Am I on the right track?

FF

[ravfour4]

I feel like she got super frustrated in our relationship, shut down on me, found the first guy at her side and jumped into things quickly with him, despite knowing it was an overall terrible situation for everyone involved. She always kept in contact with me, and lived with me for 2-3 of the 3-4 months she was with this guy. As soon as their relationship started to get real (she moved out and he was going to leave his wife and kid's home), she came back to me, apologizing, but still overall confused with what the hell happened.

She said they deleted each other's numbers and she didn't intend to talk with him again, but he got her number and called and texted to convince her to come back. She told him she was done and that it won't work out, but she did answer the calls/reply to the texts. Since she told me they were over, she's called me multiple times a day and once we start texting, she'll reply instantly until I say I have to go. We also met up yesterday at the mall and it felt pretty much like it did when we first met, but with a bit of baggage/distance inbetween us.

Those are all good signs, but something is holding her back. I think it's one of the following reasons:

1) She still likes this other guy despite it being a terrible situation and is using me as a crutch.

2) She really likes me, but is confused why she did what she did and feels terrible

3) She really likes me, but legitimately wants to take it slow

For all I know, this guy called her again last night and she's continually letting him try to convince her to come back, or maybe he didn't, or maybe she's calling him. I really don't know with certainty.

She was responsive again when I texted her today and told me where she'd be tonight for some work promotions. I waited hours before replying and asked her if she'd want me to visit her at one of these promotions (seemed like she was implying that and said it's something the other guy would never do) or if she'd want to stop over during her 1.5 hour break inbetween promotions. If she says yes to either, then things are on the right track. If she says no, either she's really intent on moving slow OR, more likely, she's confused as hell, may be trending back towards the other guy and isn't all in this.

[formflier]

 

Rabbit trails that lead nowhere... .

That is what I call trying to figure out what people are thinking... .why they are doing things.

Honestly... .the possibilities are endless.

Focus on the actions... .not the "why" behind the action. 

FF

[ravfour4]

She ended up stopping over for an hour and a half, things were real natural, but as someone with BPD she's used to feeling super intense love for someone right away and isn't familiar with the idea of love slowly growing/evolving like it does in most healthy relationships. I told her that super intense initial feeling she's felt for all guys she's been with isn't necessarily love, love grows slower and is deeper. She said she feels all kinds of emotions lately - she feels really bad, sad, like she's mean, mad etc. Mentioned moving in together, but knows it's not the right thing to do right now, I agreed of course haha. She said she just wishes things never went wrong, I said sometimes two people can make mistakes, get back together and be stronger than ever and sometimes maybe not, we'll just have to see.

We both agreed to continue taking it slow and see how it goes. A positive night I'd say. She also said she's stopped contacting that guy and he hasn't contacted her either.

[ravfour4]

I think the main thing I'm struggling with is "taking it slow" with my ex.

She's feeling all this pressure to feel super in love with me again, even though 2 weeks ago she was telling some other guy she loved him. It's healthy that she's taking some time to think about what she did, what she wants and her overall feelings rather than quickly jumping back into things with me (which it sounded like is what she hoped for).

I'm trying not to jump the gun ("let's hang out everyday!" while also letting her know that I'll be supportive and still really like her. It's a hard line to find. I'm trying to focus on her actions (hanging out Wednesday - sort of awkward, Thursday - less awkward and mentioned living together and today - her bringing up old memories and saying "us/we" a decent amount) which so far seem in the right direction. We're supposed to meet up tomorrow morning, but if it was up to me she'd come over tonight as well - I just don't want to rush things and push her away. I also don't want to be led on only to have her leave again.

[formflier]

  I just don't want to rush things and push her away. I also don't want to be led on only to have her leave again.

As the "non"... .it's up to us to show emotional leadership in the r/s.  We are the ones that have to break the push pull cycle.  Unlikely they will do it themselves.

How is that going for you?

What are your strategies?

FF

[ravfour4]

So, we've been hanging out everyday since she ended things with that other guy. We spent Friday night, all day Saturday and all day Sunday together and she came over for dinner on Monday.

Things are going well. Conversation is natural, she seems emotionally stable, we're talking through what happened and the mistakes we both made and taking it slow. She'll often mention the potential of having kids, or travelling or moving in together, but has yet to be intimate (this is really the only part we seem to be taking slow).

She's been honest and has told me when the married guy texts her. She had been ignoring them, but responded when he tried to come over saying "no thanks I'm good". She also told me that she thinks he drove by my place while we walked outside after having dinner, I think it creeped her out and is pushing her further away from him, but I didn't like seeing that it bothered her at all.

She's telling friends that we're hanging out again and invited me on a work date thing next week. Overall, things are going very well, no emotional outbursts and consistent quality conversation and having fun with each other, but the lack of kissing etc. is odd considering we jumped into that right away when we first met and she did the same with the guy she hopped to after me.

I'm thinking either one of 3 things is happening:

1) She still has feelings for that other guy and is leading me on. I told her I'm not going to be friend-zoned or be a crutch for her while she figures things out. She honestly said she totally knows that and that's not what this is.

2) She's tentative to get physical with me because as soon as we do, we're essentially dating again.

3) She actually wants to take things slow after seeing how crazy her last hop from me to the other guy was and wants to have some calm in her life to make sure she makes the right decision.

I'm wondering if I should set a strict boundary in regards to: "don't talk to that guy anymore or we can't see each other". She had ignored him until he asked to come over and I told her any response she sends him, even if short and brief, just leads him on. She said she thinks he'll never try talking to her again after seeing us together, but I doubt it.

[MaroonLiquid]

She also told me that she thinks he drove by my place while we walked outside after having dinner, I think it creeped her out and is pushing her further away from him, but I didn't like seeing that it bothered her at all.

Be careful with this.  I think this is a tactic to pull you in.  She wants you to rescue her from a situation she created, feeding her ego to pull you into "fighting over her"/making you feel insecure.  Beginning stages of push/pull almost.

[formflier]

 

Please do some reading on a triangle.  Not all triangles are bad... .but almost all are complicated.

Your r/s is with her... .I would focus on that.

What is your strategy to show emotional maturity and leadership for the r/s?

FF

[ravfour4]

Got a taste of the terrible push/pull today. I woke up after her being slightly weird yesterday to a quick good morning text (for the first time in months) and she wanted to come visit me and work, brought my dinner and volunteered to let out my dog while I went to a work event. I loved it, it was very thoughtful of her and a big step in the right direction.

Then, I come home and she had a few glasses of wine that I had. She's mad about some random thing I did a long time ago and starts crying, saying that she really wants us to work out, doesn't want to go back to the old guy, but is scared of being intimate with me again because it doesn't feel like it used to.

I tried to say that I understood how she felt given all the recent crazy circumstances. I tried to stay strong while also setting boundaries (you can't play around with my emotions you need to be honest) and pointing out inconsistencies (just a few minutes ago you were talking about going to a music festival with me and dating again, now you're saying you're scared of hurting me again). I was quiet as she left and she texted me saying "I'm sorry". I tried calling and she didn't answer... .maybe she's talking to that other guy again. Great. Went from having an amazing day to a terrible day.

[ravfour4]

Well, I couldn't resist. After her sketchy replies and not answering my call, I drove past her place and guess what... .he was there. I can't believe she'd lie to my face constantly and hurt me once again. I told her she needed to call me - she knows I know after telling me she wanted us to work more than anything and that this other guy was out of the picture. WOW

[itgirl]

Sorry that things are so messed up at the moment.  the Push/Pull trait is in my books the worst one.  I don't like it at all. 

My gf started pushing on Monday.  I went about my business and yesterday she was home early from work.  She looked very upset with me.  I got out of the house and walked the dogs.  Two hours later we go on a date and she is talking about our wedding.

You have to really stay strong and focus on yourself.  I know that anxious feeling when you text and get nothing back.  That is a red flag on your part.  You should not rely on someone's response time to dictate how you feel about yourself/them/relationship.  I used to do that and I managed to stop completely and I feel so much lighter. 

You need to read up on Triangulation like others suggested. 

[ravfour4]

So, she finally called me back. Tried to act all sorry about how she acted at my place before she left. I said... .are you sorry for anything else? She was like what? I said... .was someone over? And got her to admit it. Apparently she texted him some "sorry this happened to us" text that he obviously was going to respond emotionally to and then he showed up without asking (could be lies), she told him she's trying to work things out with me, he supposedly was trying to work things out with his wife but was still saying he loved my ex. I said she lied to me saying she just wanted to relax when in reality she was just ignoring my calls in front of him.

They talked in circles and eventually he left, saying F U and slamming the door and apparently wanted to talk to me to apologize? What the hell... .I'm usually a mature confident guy, but I've gotten myself into a totally f*cked up situation with this girl. I mentioned her fear of being alone, hopping into relationships super fast with super high highs and super low lows with minimal in between etc. and called her out on other aspects of how she's hurt me throughout all of this and how I won't take it anymore. She said she knows she wants to be with me badly and forever, but knows she should probably just focus on herself and wants it to feel exactly how it did before and is scared it won't. I told her it won't, it's different and will be different. She also flip-flopped between "I'm afraid you'll try to kiss me and I won't be ready" and "Just force me to, just take control"

I had answered that call ready to say "Never talk to me again", but she charmed me back in.

She makes me feel amazing and like the best version of myself, I may be codependent, but she's also hurt me more than anything in the world. She wants to keep giving it a chance and I told her she'd need to make this up to me to regain my trust.

This stuff is crazy. I will read up on triangulation.

[ravfour4]

Woke up to apology texts, followed by a call telling me how she told him they can never talk again and how she wants to hang out and go to a festival and go boating tomorrow with me.

I picked her up later, told her what she did wasn't ok and didn't make sense if she wanted us to work. Told her I can't and shouldn't continue to put up with this, but that I'm willing to give it my all, but I need her to give it her all too. She said she wanted to and that she'd prove how much she cared.

Here's the gist of what she's saying right now:

-She wants us to work out and be together forever. She loved (emphasis on the D) a ton before.

-She doesn't want to kiss/be intimate until she feels that intense love again and is scared she won't, but wants to try.

When we're together, she's acting the same as she did before, minus the intimacy. I told her if she's scared, it's never going to happen, she just needs to go with the flow. I told her she was being flirty (she is), she said she wasn't and that I am... .

Any tips on how to proceed?

[formflier]

Any tips on how to proceed?

Proceed to where?

Do you want to change your r/s pattern?

Biggest piece of advice... .stop discussing the other guy with her... .

FF

[ravfour4]

Tips to break free of this cycle and to try to find some stability with her like we had before for almost 4 years.

[formflier]

Tips to break free of this cycle and to try to find some stability with her like we had before for almost 4 years.

If you want to know how you can break free of the cycle... .that seems relatively simple... .stop dancing the dance... .if you don't like it.

If what you are asking is how to convince her (or anyone else) to stop unhealthy behavior and go back to the way it was for several years... .realize... .you have very little control over that... .

As long as your definition of "victory"  (military term) involves someone else's behavior... .it is likely that you will be frustrated at not achieving victory.

Behavior change of someone else is possible... .but when that someone else has BPD traits... .the road is long... .winding... .and full of surprises.

FF