I have validated….maybe too much…too long?

[byfaith]

I live with my uBPDw and my stepson who is paranoid/schizophrenic (diagnosed) he is 30 years old. He also has the effects of a stroke he had when he was almost 20.

I have been with my wife for 4 years and my stepson moved in about 3 1/2 years ago. I have validated my wife's codependent feelings and have backed up her actions concerning him. I am now worn out with it. I am paying the price. I thought things would change and they have not.

Not only do I validate my wife's feelings toward whatever she is feeling I have tried to understand her feelings towards her son.

Its like this thing has gone on for almost 4 years now with my stepson, and she goes to no therapy to even deal with his condition. He blows all of his disability money on junk except for a very small portion he puts towards household expenses.

I'm really just venting here. I know what I need to do here but it's going to be really bad. I will probably get asked to leave or get out. I don't like that feeling. BUT I'm just going to have to deal with it. Whenever I take a position against something she has let her son do, then I am the major a-hole that has the problem.

It's way more complicated than what I have stated here. Hopefully I have the guts to do something and deal with the backlash. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

   

Sounds like a tough spot to be in.

What is it that you think needs to be done?

If you think you know what needs to be done, then perhaps you can share here and try to get ideas/strength/support/whatever to help you do it in the best way possible (if such a thing exists).

[formflier]

 

Hugs from  me too!

 

Validation is different than agreeing... .

Validation requires no action on your part... .

Although... .some actions can be validating.

Thoughts on this?

Why is your agreement or disagreement needed on what her son does? 

Looking forward to hearing more of your story... .

This is a safe place to vent... .and learn... .

FF

[byfaith]

 

I have read everyones comments. Thank you.

thank you for the feedback. I hope I can get back on at my lunch break to elaborate. That is really the only time I have to be on here. I don't take your time for granted giving me advice. talk later

BF

[byfaith]

ok, as far as my stepson goes… (paranoid/ schiz) medicated and it helps but does not take away all symptoms

my wife and him have been together all of their life. He does pretty much nothing other than walk around the house, dip, smoke (outside) sit around. He will feed the dog and cats. He may occasionally do some minor little "chore". He does no therapy for his arm that is disabled. He is demanding when he wants something. He hovers over his mother when he wants something, to go to the store, do this for me do that for me.

my wife is constantly trying to get him to stop his bad habits (understandable) controlling the amount soft drinks with caffeine he drinks to cans of dip the list goes on. do this, don't do that he still has to be reminded most of the time when to take his medicine even though he has been doing it for the past 10 years.

He walks in and out of our bedroom while I am in bed even past midnight. We leave the door open (long story)

because she feels sorry for her son she will basically do "anything" for him he wants.

I try to be understanding….he draws disability. He basically gives about 10% of that for his room and board. she does not want to ask him for more. We struggle to make ends meet. I think he should give at lead 1/3 of what he brings in a month. I am getting ready to ask this but the results are going to be me being non compassionate. I am not going to go into what he blows his money on.

I have not been intimate with my wife in over 2 years as far as even romantic kissing and then making love. Man this gets so complicated. But part of her doesn't want to have a life because he has no life, he does nothing to have a life. She has even said why should I get to enjoy making love when my son has no one. think this does not get to me? I try to make his life as pleasant as can be. I don't make any demands from him. My wife has let herself go to pot. Like she doesn't care about anything anymore, she does then she doesn't. its crazy.  well gonna end right now. will post some more later

[byfaith]

just a note….his stroke effects do hinder him in somethings. There are things he could have done and could still do if he wanted to. He is pretty sharp actually. pretty perceptive.

[Ceruleanblue]

I can really relate to you post. My BPDh is so enmeshed with his kids, that their unacceptance of our marriage, and their withdrawing from him made him go into a huge tailspin, and nearly cost us our marriage. His weird behaviors towards his kids, and my kids, maybe due the his traits of BPD, has been the hardest part to deal with.

It's like BPDh can't be truly happy unless he has their acceptance. Your wife feels guilty for being happy while her son isn't? That is just wrong. Just like it's wrong of my husband to not allow himself to be happy, with or without his kids. If you let kids(adult ones at that) to have that much power, it's never a good thing. It's unhealthy for them, and it's unhealthy for the parent.

I was never able to get this through to BPDh, but our marriage therapist, and possibly his DBT therapist seems to. He's still sad over the way things are with his kids, but he's trying to be happy even though they are withdrawn from him.

It's up to your wife how she deals with her son, but it would be unrealistic to say it doesn't effect YOU. It does. Is she at all open to marriage therapy? Maybe that would help you as it has us? Maybe a third party could get through to her? You only want what's best for all of you, and she is fighting you because of her enmeshment, perhaps? Whatever her reason, you matter too, and the marriage matters.

Hugs to you, I know just how hard dealing with step adult kids and their parent can be. I think it's as hard as BPD, and having both just compounds both.

[byfaith]

It's up to your wife how she deals with her son, but it would be unrealistic to say it doesn't effect YOU. It does. Is she at all open to marriage therapy? Maybe that would help you as it has us? Maybe a third party could get through to her? You only want what's best for all of you, and she is fighting you because of her enmeshment, perhaps? Whatever her reason, you matter too, and the marriage matters.

I don't think she will go to marriage therapy….she has tried personal therapy and she never stays with it. Maybe if I urge the issue and begin bringing up the problems we are having in our relationship and problems that are stemming from her enmeshment with her son maybe she will consider? I doubt it.

I know that sounds negative but I have watched and lived the pattern for 4 years now. I have not even mentioned my kids on these boards yet, I have four grown kids 3 daughters and 1 son. My marriage has affected relations with them. That's a whole other saga. Well hopefully I will have some open doors to begin discussing some issues this weekend.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, kids and step kids can only disrupt a marriage if they are allowed to. I hope you are able to talk to her about this over the weekend. BPD is bad enough, but adding angry or difficult step kids to that makes it that much tougher. My kids have been pretty great, but of course they don't like how BPDh treats me. And his kids, the three adult girls hate me, and his grown son and I have always gotten along.

You'd think your wife, and my husband's kids would realize we have enough to deal with, and work with us, and cut us some slack. What I've come to realize though is that they are likely some form of PD too, and I no longer expect any sort of good behavior from them. You and I have to expect more from our spouses though.

[an0ught]

Hi byfaith,

Re: I have validated….maybe too much…too long?

Nope, can't validate too much and too long.

However one can lean too heavy on validation as the only tool. This is often even a good idea for people coming in and being exhausted but in no need of immediate drastic changes.

But lean too long just on validation and progress stalls. Communication works better but there are still odd things going on. What then often helps is getting more serious with Boundaries. Validation skills btw. are an excellent skill to have when managing the aftermath of boundary introductions and the related extinction bursts. Sadly the latter often can't be avoided but such is life.

When reading your posts there is so much in it that cries boundaries - people watching detailed food and medication intake (some may be needed but all of it?). Sex life of children impacting your sex life - bizarre example of missing boundaries indeed.

There is more than one party and they are all enmeshed in one way or another. You can't fix the whole situation but you can work on your relationship with the others. Restoring the overall respect in the family starts with ensuring that you are respected  .

[formflier]

  You and I have to expect more from our spouses though.

I think this would be better said... .there are different boundaries with our spouses than children and step children.

How would those differences play out in real life?

FF

[byfaith]

read this following example: tell me if you think this is validating or being a puss and not making an issue of it and setting a boundary.

Part 1

I get a text from my wife with a picture of a woman sitting on a motorcycle. The text read... .lets see how well you know me, why did I send you this picture? the picture looked exactly like my ex wife sitting on a motorcycle (but thinner) I mean exactly, this woman had sunglasses on. I am wondering dang is is this some trap? I texted back I guess I failed? not sure why. she texted back when I saw the picture it was the first thing I noticed right off the bat. just give it time.

I texted back…I don't see it. (this whole time I am thinking this is my ex wife on a motorcycle.

So I call my wife and I am like why did you send me a picture of_____sitting on a motorcycle? come to find out it wasn't my ex wife, but the funny part was that the pic looked like the woman had big metal boobs because of these two things in front of the shield in front, thats what she thought it was funny.

Part 2

she told me that it was from some guys FB page. she is not friends with him on FB. I got curious and went on FB to see who the guys was. Have no idea why she would be on someones FB page that she would have to scroll through almost 2 years of posts to find this picture. It wasn't in his photos, it was in one of his posts like almost 2 years ago.

When I ask her why she was spending so much time on this guys page she will give me a point blank answer and she will expect me to say "oh ok" It will continue to bother me why she wastes her time doing this. If I did this with another females page (a stranger) the interrogation lights would get turned on.

So the question is do I let it go and say OK? or do I press the issue more? If it was the 3rd or 4th post down that would be different maybe? but I had to dig to find this

[formflier]

 

What good would come of pursuing it and not... ."letting it go"... .?

I stopped participating in these "let's see if you can figure me out" questions a long time ago... .it seemed to be a ploy to get me to say something she could be offended at.

All downside... .rarely to no upside... .so don't do it.

FF

[byfaith]

thanks FF

maybe what I was trying to explain got lost….I let go of the "let's see how much you know about me". What I have a hard time with is why is she spending so much time digging deep into some strangers FB page?

I have not asked her why yet. If and when I do I will get some kind of answer that justifies it in her mind but not to me. So my question is do I validate her reason and disregard how I feel about it. There is a reason I feel the way I do about it.

Too long of a story for this post, so I will condense it. My first wife left me because she met up with her high school sweetheart ( in hindsight she did me favor) BUT my uBPDw "left" me in Dec 2014 and it all started with FB communications. She left for about a month and 1/2.  It's hard to ignore patterns of behavior and it sucks to have the feeling of distrust.

the last 16 months of my marriage has worn me down in all aspects…I try to keep my game face on. The part of me inside that wants a close companion that is in love with me is dying, is that what defines me? No, but to me that's what defines a marriage.

[vortex of confusion]

maybe what I was trying to explain got lost….I let go of the "let's see how much you know about me". What I have a hard time with is why is she spending so much time digging deep into some strangers FB page?

I have not asked her why yet. If and when I do I will get some kind of answer that justifies it in her mind but not to me. So my question is do I validate her reason and disregard how I feel about it. There is a reason I feel the way I do about it.

Why do you want to know why she is digging so deep into some strangers FB page? I think that may be what you need to let go. If you already know that she is going to provide a BS justification that isn't going to satisfy you, why bother asking at all? If you don't ask, then you don't have to validate anything. Your feelings are yours and they are perfectly understandable.

I know that I have asked my husband why he has done some things. Sometimes, he doesn't know. Sometimes, it was boredom. And, there are times when I will ask about something over a period of time and the answer will change. If you ask her tomorrow and get an answer and then try to continue the conversation later, the reason might change. How is going down that rabbit hole going to be helpful? It is likely to bring up more stuff to deal with. Sometimes, the best approach is to not even go there.

[formflier]

 

Here is the thing... .

She could be doing the FB thing... .to get a rise out of you. Might not even consciously think that... .but when stressed... .knows how to get some relief from you.

My wife does... .whatever she does on FB.   I haven't a clue... .every once in a great while I will peak over her shoulder.

I've found it a better use of energy to focus on my reason for doing and thinking things... .to make sure I am making emotionally healthy choices... .for me and my r/s.

Worrying about someone else is generally wasted effort... .because once you figure out what they should be doing... .then you have to figure out how to convince them to do it... .or not do it.

But... .if you are focused on you... .you have a much better chance of talking yourself into doing things... .than someone else.

Thoughts?

FF

[an0ught]

BPD 101: "Why" is a four letter word. Don't use it.

Why are people using FB? I think to learn what others are doing, possibly getting valuable information but also possibly getting too deeply interested or even involved. There are studies that are saying looking at FB is increasing anxiety and depression - what we see is choreographed expression which when compared with real life as we know it invalidates us. As a distraction it  helps dealing with pain - not in a really healthy manner but effective in the short term nonetheless. FB as it contains almost everything under the sun is also a great source of triggers for the user and for those who get stuff forwarded.

Don't overthink what a pwBPD says and does. Yes, think hard and deep what it means but keep the thinking limited to the situation and instant. It that context it probably made twisted sense for them - in another context it may be simply nonsensical. Boundaries are important to avoid getting windings in your brain to much wrapped.

As said, "why" is not good as it leads only down to getting more involved. You could validate that she is excited about x, y and z. One can use SET to express a belief: She finds it exciting however lots of people show off and it can make depressed too. It not really something for you.

[formflier]

the thinking limited to the situation and instant. 

Critical... .in that "instant"... .they may experience a set of emotional triggers that even they don't understand.

Coming back later and trying to get them to explain that... .ask the "why"... .is very likely to "re-trigger"

"Help me understand... ." is a favorite that I like to us.  I can be gentler when I ask... .and more genuine with my concern.



FF