They are ill

[Trog]

Hi all,

I think, and I know for sure in my relationship, that the fact these people have a personality (and in my case a psychotic disorder) disorder and are unwell, damaged people gets lost. It gets lost in our emotions and expectations, it gets lost very often because they intend it to get lost and do not face up to their disorders and so downplay and ignore the trouble caused and. It gets lost because very often we ourselves have disordered thinking, are codependent and logical and will place blame and look for solutions in ourselves.

In my case, it's very extreme, my ex has schitzo-effective disorder co morbid with a PD, I have suspended reality in favour of her reality hundreds of times and been an enabler in her delusion. She doesn't take her meds and denies she has a problem, I was the problem for her and on some level, though I denied it, I bought into this disease being triggered by me. It suited my control issues, if I did X,Y,Z our marriage would be fine, except I did x,y,z and it wasn't and she still became abusive, she was still sectioned and she still looks for others to blame even though I'm not there. I think my version is extreme but I see it throughout the boards. Members ignoring outright abuse, forgetting that BPD is a personality disorder and still trying to 'do things', to over-analyse, to look for ways to solve a hopeless case. Let's get it straight, if a person has BPD/NPD/bipolar, anything, and refuses to engage with a recovery programme or like my ex, out and out denies they have a problem in the face of overwhelming evidence, psychotic episodes on tape, everyone leaving their life, unable. To work etc, there is no where for us nons to go.

Whatever obligation you feel to save the relationship, or however cold you think they are because they just move on like nothing happened (this is survival for them, not a slight to you!), and all the mental trauma and pain we put ourselves through... .It's all for nought. It's for a disordered person who does nothing to improve the situation for themselves, for their partner or their family... .Everyone suffers in these cases. We must let them go. Anything else is enabling and importantly for us, we must focus on ourselves. Why did we block reality, why did we ignore what was clear to our friends and family, why did we take abuses and settle for far less than we deserve? Why do we put ourselves last?

The first step, IMO, to getting well ourselves is understanding and truly accepting that they are ill, not only that they are ill but that this illness, without help and medication, makes a successful and happy relationship simply impossible. You can safely stop worrying your ex will be magically happy without you, the only way they will be happy is if they have faced their illness and in recovery/therapy/on meds. Otherwise they will continue to repeat the same mistakes, causing misery to other codependent, naive individuals along the way, making themselves and all around them miserable as sin. Our worry should now be 100% ourselves! getting ourselves well after these horrendous experiences! treating ourselves like precious porcelain! sleeping well! eating well! feeding ourselves with culture! art or whatever feeds our souls and building our confidence up to becoming a whole! authentic! non codependent wonderful person who would find a BPD relationship repugnant (which it is) and become attracted to people who come to give, give to our lives as we give to them.

Just felt the need to set the story straight in my own mind, hopefully this helps a few of you too who are struggling today. #1 = you! now is the time to do everything to repair yourselves.

[LonelyChild]

Thank you for this very insightful post. I'm sorry for what you've gone through. Like yours, my ex is psychotic. She is currently locked up in a psych ward and has been for 5 weeks now due to (yet another) suicide attempt. Following that, she has been acting psychotic, attacking nurses etc. To which the response has been injections to basically shut her down. Her family is falling apart due to this (not the fact that she needs help - but the fact that she does NOTHING to improve the situation, but instead making it worse).

To be honest, I think she has reached a point where there is no turning back anymore. Her family of origin is abandoning her because they can't take it anymore, and I'm drifting away because of, well, obvious reasons. She has NO ONE else. No friends. Whatsoever. Zero. I'm preparing emotionally (as is her mother, with whom I speak now and then) for her to commit suicide. This is a situation where a biblical miracle is needed for anything to get better.

[Mel1968]

Thanks for that, Trog.

I'm clearly in the very beginning stages of detaching, and not making a very good job of it just now, because, I suppose, I don't really want to. So reading things like this remind me of why I MUST, and why I am never ever going to be able to make it right, no matter how much I want to.

My hope is that these reminders and moments of clarity will eventually lead to my having a better understanding and therefore a proper detachment, and a life away from this addictive nightmare.

Thank you.

LonelyChild- I'm so sorry to hear the awful situation you're in, that must be so hard. Sending strength... .

[FannyB]

The first step, IMO, to getting well ourselves is understanding and truly accepting that they are ill, not only that they are ill but that this illness, without help and medication, makes a successful and happy relationship simply impossible. You can safely stop worrying your ex will be magically happy without you, the only way they will be happy is if they have faced their illness and in recovery/therapy/on meds. Otherwise they will continue to repeat the same mistakes, causing misery to other codependent, naive individuals along the way, making themselves and all around them miserable as sin.

Trog

I totally agree. Accept they are ill and that the idealization phase was a by-product of that illness. Accept that if they weren't ill, they may not have been available or been attracted to you. Accept that they weren't your 'soulmate'. Accept that how they were at the end of the relationship was the 'real' them - with the handbrake off! Accept that if you'd behaved differently you might have been able to prolong the relationship, but there was nothing you could have done to have a happy ever after with her.

There are many bitter pills us nons have to swallow - but if we refuse to take the medicine we won't get better! 

'The disorder giveth, and the disorder taketh away'. 

[LonelyChild]

but there was nothing you could have done to have a happy ever after with her.

This is a definite statement that they cannot be in a functional loving relationship (without years of therapy). I wonder how much truth it holds. I'm inclined to agree, but emotionally, I want to think (or maybe fantasize) otherwise.

[FannyB]

This is a definite statement that they cannot be in a functional loving relationship

LC: I'm guilty of black and white thinking!  I should have added the caveat 'without a solid commitment to therapy on their part - and even then it will be a very bumpy ride on the path to relationship nirvana'.

My point is - why would we put ourselves through all that just to have a very slim shot at making them better? Maybe we'd be disappointed with the 'well' version of them as it's unlikely to match up to the honeymoon period partner we all seem to have fallen in love with.

Either way, as Trog says, it's much better to focus on ourselves and try and put our BPD experience behind us. 

[foggydew]

Well, I can only answer this question for myself. After dealing with schizophrenic stepson (deceased), bipolar stepdaughter (coping better) and the slow death of my husband through addiction-caused cancer, I just felt that my uBPD person deserved at least a bit of care and comfort along the way and no-one else was providing it. He really did support me massively when I felt very much alone; and I felt there was nothing else in life for me at the time. So he provided ready made family for me, his problems filled my life, his behaviour (both positive and negative) made me feel alive. He's just beginning a new relationship now - who knows if it will hold - but keeps me in the background, a mixture of mother and good/girl/friend (I'm much older). And I have to learn to like it.

I don't really have any illusions - he will never be a partner for me, never a stable friend. But I enjoy the good times, try to take care of myself during the abusive times, and try to be there and caring at any time. I just don't want to see yet another life end too soon. And no, I don't see myself as a real co-dependent or someone with a helper syndrome. Just someone with no close family who wants to feel useful as well. His family has more or less given up on him and have unrealistic expectations; he has told me that I'm the most important woman in his life. And I'll be there even if this relationship works. Kind of caretaker/therapist. But it can't be mistaken for a real partnership etc. Just fulfilling perceived needs.

[FannyB]

Foggydew

Respect to you for accepting the illness as it is and taking from it something that works for you.  However, what you have outlined as such is a dysfunctional relationship, rather than the 'dream romance' scenario that many posters on these boards are holding out for. How many others on here would sign up for that? Not many, I think. 

[babyducks]

but there was nothing you could have done to have a happy ever after with her.

This is a definite statement that they cannot be in a functional loving relationship (without years of therapy). I wonder how much truth it holds. I'm inclined to agree, but emotionally, I want to think (or maybe fantasize) otherwise.

Hi LonelyChild

I can speak to your question.  I normally post on the staying board and consider myself in a committed relationship with my partner who is diagnosed with Bipolar 1 and Emotional Dysegulation Disorder.   

My partner has been in therapy for nine years.   She has been religious about medication, dedicated to therapy and has gone to every length to improve her health.   There is no way I can begin to describe the amount of effort, sweat and tears she has put into making her life and her mental health better.     

I've gone to therapy for about 2 years myself to learn different tools and identify my own issues so I can function better in relationships.

I can honestly say today we have a stable and loving relationship.  It's also a difficult relationship.   Nothing comes easy.   I equate it to being in a relationship with anyone who has a serious illness.   When we travel, we take into account how the trip might impact her sleeping, her mood, etc.   I have never lived with some one who has cancer but I think it must feel a little like that, the mental illness is always the third person in the room with us.   

We also have a lot of history to look past and over come.   Before I learned about bipolar and EDD, we had a lot of very rough episodes.   They are part of our story.   People are aware of them and express their opinions about them.   They have left residual emotions to deal with between the two of us.

What I can't stress enough is the amount of effort and willingness to embrace hurt that it took to get us to this point.  We both worked our butts off, her more so than me.   And while my personal decision is that it is worth it, I also know, deep down, it will never be easy.   

So I think FannyB is right, it takes two,  my partner  has had the courage to face her demons, and to do that over and over again.   Everyday she gets up and thinks about how to be a better person.   I know I couldn't do that.   And to do it for years?   

I hope I didn't butt into a 'leaving' board conversation as I am normally a 'staying' board poster but I felt I needed to add my two cents.

'ducks

[valet]

They are ill, yes, but they are not helpless.

A critical thing to keep in mind.

[LonelyChild]

... .

Thank you for a very emotional and touching reply.

I'm curious about trust. Do you two now trust each other? Thinking back to my ex, I could probably put up with most of her crap if there was trust. If I knew that she wouldn't be unfaithful or lie to me. Is there trust in your r/s?

[babyducks]

... .

Thank you for a very emotional and touching reply.

I'm curious about trust. Do you two now trust each other? Thinking back to my ex, I could probably put up with most of her crap if there was trust. If I knew that she wouldn't be unfaithful or lie to me. Is there trust in your r/s?

Yes I trust her.  Unfaithfulness was never an issue in our relationship.   So thankfully I don't have to look past that.    Rage was the issue that we struggled with the most.  I trust she won't rage at me.

She trusts me slightly less because she still has doubts about my love for her.   She requires more reassurance that while an episode of emotional dysregulation may cause me to seek a peaceful shelter for an hour or two I will be back.

And FWIW, I don't put up with crap.   I've established some, only a few boundaries really, and she has learned to stop at those boundaries.   One of the big boundaries is don't disturb my sleep.   If I am asleep, if I am going to sleep, if I say I am tired and I need to go sleep, that boundary is sacrosanct.

'ducks

[FannyB]

my partner  has had the courage to face her demons

Babyducks - great that you've got a success story of sorts to report.  BPD is a spectrum disorder and the behaviours of our partners might differ significantly. Glad yours is up for the fight and not mired in the denial that characterizes many of our ex SOs. 

For what it's worth, I'd have loved to have helped my ex through therapy if she'd fronted up to her problem. But it really does take two to tango if they are ever going to improve.

[babyducks]

[BPD is a spectrum disorder and the behaviours of our partners might differ significantly.

Absolutely right Fanny B.   No two people, and no two relationships are the same.   Every sufferer is somewhere different on the spectrum.

I've been lucky and I know how rare that is.

I think the point I was trying to underline was it took years of commitment and effort for us to have a success story of sorts.   

[Trog]

This is not supposed to read as abandon all hope for every Ill person ever. I am speaking on behalf of people who have been in relationship with mentally ill people who refuse to acknowledge they are ill and engage with therapy/medication.

If that is your case, and then throw in physical and/or mental abuse, I don't think there is any hope for the relationship or the ill person barring a realisation and acceptance of their illness on their part. Without that, staying will cause you a LOT of pain.

[michel71]

TROG... .I really needed to read your post tonight. Thank you so much for your insight. Tonight was the divorce talk for us and I feel shattered.

A poster mentioned boundaries. Mine told me tonight that one of the reasons among many that she wants to divorce (and BPD style "many' was that I told her that I would not pay for anymore flights back and forth for her kids if she doesn't get some sort of job and start bringing in money. It has been one year now. Spent all my savings on supporting her while she lived in the UK. Expensive immigration process. Credit cards up. Finances are beyond tight. I told her that I don't want to go broke, lose my house and I have my boundaries with that! She told me this "there are no boundaries in marriage". I just looked at her dumbfounded.

She claims that she couldn't work through school was because her one course per semester would be too taxing and the idea that she would have to work to afford flights put too much pressure on her and why be in a marriage if the other half wont take care of the other partner. I see this as her not taking care of me (us) and doing her part, God Forbid. I told her that I worked through law school taking a full curriculum. She didn't want to hear that.

Sorry I digressed but I just wanted to say thanks again.

[babyducks]

.

Let's get it straight, if a person has BPD/NPD/bipolar, anything, and refuses to engage with a recovery programme or like my ex, out and out denies they have a problem in the face of overwhelming evidence, psychotic episodes on tape, everyone leaving their life, unable. To work etc, there is no where for us nons to go.

... ., we must focus on ourselves. Why did we block reality, why did we ignore what was clear to our friends and family, why did we take abuses and settle for far less than we deserve? Why do we put ourselves last?

The first step, IMO, to getting well ourselves is understanding and truly accepting that they are ill, not only that they are ill but that this illness, without help and medication, makes a successful and happy relationship simply impossible.

Hi Trog,

This is the part of your post that spoke to me, and caught my attention.  I understand that pwBPD or with any mental illness can be fairly persuasive about their reality, the $20,000 question for me was why did it feel so normal to accept her distorted reality as my own.

I think for me it was because I grew up in a household where there was mental illness that was kept in the closet .   So that sense of something being distorted felt very natural.   My need to care take was bred in from childhood.

I have read around here the analogy of the plane and the oxygen mask.   If the plane starts to fail you put your own oxygen mask on first before you put on anyone else's.   I think that is the case with untreated mental illness.   As the illness spirals out of control there comes a point where a decision has to be made to save yourself.   I think it's uniquely personal for each individual.    For me, I believe physical abuse is the death knell of a relationship.   Physical abuse is never okay.

I'm sorry your Ex refuses to engage in a recovery program.  That has to be very difficult for you.  When you said "in your case extreme" and "psychotic episodes on tape"  I can only imagine what the reality is behind those words. 

What you wrote was spot on.   Our worry should be now for us.   I always like it when I see posters mention, eating well, sleeping well and maybe a little exercise too.   I think as a group we are pretty dang bad at taking care of us.  We are too busy taking care of everyone else.   

kudos to you for working to repair yourself!

'ducks

[Beach_Babe]

Serial killers are ill too. This does not mean I have to empathize or wish them well.

[Trog]

Serial killers are ill too. This does not mean I have to empathize or wish them well.

That wasn't the point of the thread to empathise with BPD folk. The point was to see reality for what it is, stop expecting things from them that they are not capable of and look after ourselves.

[Trog]

.

Let's get it straight, if a person has BPD/NPD/bipolar, anything, and refuses to engage with a recovery programme or like my ex, out and out denies they have a problem in the face of overwhelming evidence, psychotic episodes on tape, everyone leaving their life, unable. To work etc, there is no where for us nons to go.

... ., we must focus on ourselves. Why did we block reality, why did we ignore what was clear to our friends and family, why did we take abuses and settle for far less than we deserve? Why do we put ourselves last?

The first step, IMO, to getting well ourselves is understanding and truly accepting that they are ill, not only that they are ill but that this illness, without help and medication, makes a successful and happy relationship simply impossible.

Hi Trog,

This is the part of your post that spoke to me, and caught my attention.  I understand that pwBPD or with any mental illness can be fairly persuasive about their reality, the $20,000 question for me was why did it feel so normal to accept her distorted reality as my own.

I think for me it was because I grew up in a household where there was mental illness that was kept in the closet .   So that sense of something being distorted felt very natural.   My need to care take was bred in from childhood.

I have read around here the analogy of the plane and the oxygen mask.   If the plane starts to fail you put your own oxygen mask on first before you put on anyone else's.   I think that is the case with untreated mental illness.   As the illness spirals out of control there comes a point where a decision has to be made to save yourself.   I think it's uniquely personal for each individual.    For me, I believe physical abuse is the death knell of a relationship.   Physical abuse is never okay.

I'm sorry your Ex refuses to engage in a recovery program.  That has to be very difficult for you.  When you said "in your case extreme" and "psychotic episodes on tape"  I can only imagine what the reality is behind those words. 

What you wrote was spot on.   Our worry should be now for us.   I always like it when I see posters mention, eating well, sleeping well and maybe a little exercise too.   I think as a group we are pretty dang bad at taking care of us.  We are too busy taking care of everyone else.   

kudos to you for working to repair yourself!

'ducks

Thanks baby ducks, it's taken a long time for me to even reach here. Yes, it has been hell. My ex used to threaten suicide and hurt herself and I was forever on tenterhooks.

I should have left a long time ago and putting myself square last has been a long time habit. Today I made a list of all the things I can do for me and my soul/health and well being and I'm really excited to get started on making a great me