Love body - hate personality

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi All,

I have a question that I can't find any information about online, it's something I've always known but didn't understand if it was significant before but now feel sure it must be.

Ever since I met my ex-wife, I was always very physically attracted to her, there was a 'feeling' between us that was all physical and I adored her body and how she made me feel physically. The sex actually wasn't great but it felt like the coming together of two parts, I really felt incredibly whole with her unlike any woman before or since. However, I never liked her as a person, I felt she had some nice caring values, she loved animals and kids and is quite moral and upstanding (but sometimes contradictory in that too). However, mostly I disagreed and sometimes outright hated her personality, how she treated people and some of her ideas I thought were absurd and I felt embarrassed by her.

All this would be forgotten when I could hold her in my arms, this felt so natural and comfortable for me it was perfect, and I can't imagine 'fitting' with another like this again and this one thing, upsets me more than anything else about losing my marriage.

I know this is not a healthy feeling, firstly, does anyone else know this feeling, it reads disordered, loving how she made me feel physically but disliking her intensely, it's splitting, and I know I ignored a lot of her personality because I loved how she felt in my arms. I want love, so secondly, where do I go with this? I want and crave love in my life but I don't think this was healthy love, but, I want to enjoy a woman in my arms again AND like her! Is this just codependency or traits of a PD of my own?

[Trog]

Hi All,

I have a question that I can't find any information about online, it's something I've always known but didn't understand if it was significant before but now feel sure it must be.

Ever since I met my ex-wife, I was always very physically attracted to her, there was a 'feeling' between us that was all physical and I adored her body and how she made me feel physically. The sex actually wasn't great but it felt like the coming together of two parts, I really felt incredibly whole with her unlike any woman before or since. However, I never liked her as a person, I felt she had some nice caring values, she loved animals and kids and is quite moral and upstanding (but sometimes contradictory in that too). However, mostly I disagreed and sometimes outright hated her personality, how she treated people and some of her ideas I thought were absurd and I felt embarrassed by her.

All this would be forgotten when I could hold her in my arms, this felt so natural and comfortable for me it was perfect, and I can't imagine 'fitting' with another like this again and this one thing, upsets me more than anything else about losing my marriage.

I know this is not a healthy feeling, firstly, does anyone else know this feeling, it reads disordered, loving how she made me feel physically but disliking her intensely, it's splitting, and I know I ignored a lot of her personality because I loved how she felt in my arms. I want love, so secondly, where do I go with this? I want and crave love in my life but I don't think this was healthy love, but, I want to enjoy a woman in my arms again AND like her! Is this just codependency or traits of a PD of my own?

[once removed]

trog, im familiar with the feeling. it can sound like denial, after all, if you felt this way, why were you with this person? i like to think i understand it. i largely did not respect my ex. i can go even deeper, so far as to recall consciously deciding i loved her simply because she loved me. stuff that is/was serious  red-flags of my own. good for you for recognizing them. at the same time, similar to you, i often felt, and largely still feel, that ive never been closer to or more comfortable with a person. and yes, i was deeply physically attracted to her from the moment i saw her.

in your layout i recognize two things, but they apply to me and may not apply to you. for starters, is there anything "familiar" about this feeling? is there a disordered family member in the picture? there is for many members. if not, what about your past romantic relationships? do you think you have good ideas of what "normal" and "healthy" are? if so, how do they make you feel? i realized that although this wasnt deep seated for me, a bit of a pattern was there as far as potentially unhealthy people being more attractive and other, potentially more healthy partners appearing less attractive. this "familiar" dynamic may vary, a lot. second, do you know much about low self efficacy? ive posted about it recently on this board. one of the themes is finding yourself in and/or remaining in situations you dont really want to be in, which could partly explain how we could feel such conflicting feelings about our exes and remain in the relationship.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Trog-

When I was young I used to believe strongly that because a woman was beautiful she must also be nice.  Oops.  There are beautiful people of both genders who are very ugly on the inside, or at least highly incompatible, and my belief was more superficial than delusional, along the lines of she's beautiful so does it matter who she is?  Childish, but I grew out of it, and I've swung entirely the other way: who she is as a person is all that matters if I'm considering a relationship or friendship, and sure, I need to be physically attracted to her too, and her me, after all one of the reasons we get in relationships with people is to have sex with them, but that is just a part of a healthy relationship.

I'm not big on labels, but to me the core is while a woman's touch is a very potent thing for a man, why was it so potent that you tolerate and/or forget that you 'hated' her personality?  It's also interesting that for you it wasn't the sex but the physical intimacy that you liked most; there's where the digging could start; maybe it reminded you of the loving touch you got from your mother, or the one you didn't get from her and now consider that touch a scarce commodity?  Or some other source?

[Trog]

Hi both,

She was the most beautiful woman (in my eyes), I'd ever been with and I fantasised about being with her for a long time before we got together and before I knew she was ill. This means that when she displayed characteristics I didn't like and told me she was unwell I was already fixated on her and her desire ability, I'd already married her in my mind and deemed her perfect, she is also intelligent, that the fact I didn't like her as a person didn't dawn on me frankly for quite some time, I knew she was difficult and I knew that when we were not being intimate and when we were talking she made me feel very bad internally. So my solution, stop talking and stick to the bit I liked. The hand holding, kissing, cuddling and sex and small or dirty talk. Basically I ignored and closed down listening when she was talking rubbish and only engaged in the bits of the relationship I liked. This in turn made her feel bad and like I wasn't listening, and I wasn't.

She would often say, 'we used to be friends and I miss my friend, as soon as I became 'girlfriend' you stopped telling me things'. Actually I was never her friend (as she describes) and I was never listening but waiting for the rant/nonsense to subside. I suppose in the early days I was less closed down because I didn't realise how irritating she was. I ignored, deliberately, huge red flags around her illness and the way she was treating me outside of the bedroom. Often these things hurt a lot, but the good bit was so good and felt so right it was 'worth it'. The intimacy subsided (probably because her needs were not met I.e not listening and giving her the intimacy she craved) and all I was left with was the part of her I didn't like. Until we got to a head and even the intimacy I would refuse because it would come later with a massive row or complaints. It was no longer 'worth it' so I left.

There were many times I tried really hard in the romance/ listening area but always I caught the blame or got the anger for something others had done. Or if she started a rant, it would just escalate into utter craziness, suicide threats etc, engaging with her just never worked out well for me. I stopped trying.

I know reading this seems just like a bitter person who forget they loved someone's personality, it's not, I truly tuned her out and took only the bits I loved and I did truly love and treasure those times more so than anyone else. Thanks for your thoughts fromheeltoheel and once removed, it's helping me get this far. Perhaps it's as simple as I built her up in my mind and stubbornly and naively thought I could take the bits I liked an control and manage down the rest? That sounds like codependency too?

[once removed]

hey trog, i do relate, for the most part. i met my ex through a mutual friend. i saw pictures of her and was profoundly drawn to how "interesting" i thought she looked, not to mention she was my "type" to the extent i had one, there were physical aspects of her that i truly felt were the most attractive id ever seen in my life, and long after we met and got together, the two of us would both go on about how we felt similarly in our attraction. we even agreed a lot of it had to do with the ocular bones. im four years out, and find it incredibly challenging to be attracted to her physically or otherwise. the only part in which i think i differ is that i wanted out pretty early, and expressed it consistently, yet with the opposite of follow through. so no, i understand its not just bitterness on your part in expressing this. the facts were a little different for me than most members, but the lessons were largely the same. physical attraction is a hook. sex is a hook. the soul mate like comfort most of us feel is a hook. it can cause us to overlook a lot, perhaps more than we even realize at the time. any hook can.

"Perhaps it's as simple as I built her up in my mind and stubbornly and naively thought I could take the bits I liked an control and manage down the rest? That sounds like codependency too?"

i have mixed feelings with regard to myself when it comes to codependency. i have no problem labeling myself but ive always been uncomfortable considering myself a codependent. frankly though, ive done even more reading on it recently. seen a few different checklists. saw one recently where i was about ten for twenty. im not sure the lesson was "im more codependent than i realize" but that codependency is not a bad model for me to learn from. codependent or not ive got traits. ive got traits id like to work on and change. i guess my point is not that youre a codependent or not, but that it may be worth further exploring. so many of the traits are fundamentally not me. but could "built her up in my mind and stubbornly and naively thought i could take the bits i liked and control and manage down the rest" sound like codependency? sure. it sounds a lot like my attitude at the time. its funny, i wouldnt have moved toward marrying her, i was committed to the idea that there had to be profound and lasting change before id even consider it, yet i believed we were meant to be married and there was no one else for me. there were times when i really saw otherwise, even felt i deserved better, but still reverted to the idea that we were meant to be. i dont know if that has to do with codependency either, not an expert, but hopefully its relatable .

[Trog]

The meant to be bit has kept me stuck for a while. She said it and I thought it. She would often say how we fitted together perfectly and in the same day then speak endlessly and at nauseum about her ex partners - that made me feel second best even if she was with me and saying we are soul mates.

That was always so confusing, giving with one hand and making me feel top of the world, then taking away in the next breath leaving me sad, disappointed and confused, she could see it hurt me, but she would not stop. This is the worst aspect of it, I know if I were hurting my gf with my words, I would stop. She seemed to like hurting me on some kind of principle, it was deliberate but I don't get why she did it, it made me pull away and doubt her and sped up our downfall. Bpd I guess.

That hurt and confusion still hurts me at times today. She made out recently we were married it means a lot and I should return and then goes silent for weeks/months. Actions are the teller here not words.

Lastly, like you I wasn't angling for a commitment, I left her 2/3/4 times, when she asked to marry,a nd being mid 30s I knew if I said no, it would be over, I didn't want to lose her at that time. That was a weak move.

[once removed]

" and in the same day then speak endlessly and at nauseum about her ex partners - that made me feel second best even if she was with me and saying we are soul mates.

That was always so confusing, giving with one hand and making me feel top of the world, then taking away in the next breath leaving me sad, disappointed and confused, she could see it hurt me, but she would not stop. This is the worst aspect of it, I know if I were hurting my gf with my words, I would stop."

i can relate to this. with several exes before the uBPD (possible pd past partners) i felt i was in a competition i did not sign up for. my uBPD ex did this some, but in fairness, so did i. i remember my ex talking about how her rich former boyfriend bought her all this stuff for her birthday though she supposedly didnt like it (insisted that was the point), and my reaction wasnt to her not liking it, it was "how the heck am i supposed to compete with that?" we more or less came to a "dont mention exes" agreement, though both of us still did it on some level at times. honestly id say i was worse about it, though at the time, i did not know the extent to which she kept up on her exes either. the point is i knew on some level it was bothering her, and i knew on some level why i was doing it, but it wasnt that easy to just stop, even if i thought about how it effected me when she did it.

"She seemed to like hurting me on some kind of principle, it was deliberate but I don't get why she did it, it made me pull away and doubt her and sped up our downfall. Bpd I guess."

i think this is a very important boundary to draw. in past relationships, i hadnt. i dont know that she liked hurting you, per se, (she may have on some level) i think there are a number of different explanations for this. without disagreeing with you, i think judging our reactions plays into it. ive read some threads on this board recently about pwBPD mentioning being hit on. my ex mentioned this less than a handful of times, and every time, my reaction was basically "hey, good for you! that oughta increase your confidence." it didnt. i dont know if that had any long term effect on her beyond seeing that this didnt upset me and not trying very often. i could actually be very wrong in that perception too. i do think for a pwBPD they are likely gauging our reaction, its just hard to say on what basis, and to what extent ya know? it could be projection, it could be a perverse form of confession, it could be engulfment or abandonment fears.

" She made out recently we were married it means a lot and I should return and then goes silent for weeks/months. "

im not sure what you meant here. were you married? youre right that actions are better to go by than words.

i wouldnt call it a weak move, though, or beat myself up about it. not to absolve us of responsibility; we brought our definitions of love into these relationships. those definitions, by definition have to and do change radically with a person with a pd, but perhaps even more important is that they may have to adjust in general, and we have to learn when, where, and to what extent.  

[once removed]

oh, and when i say i wasnt disagreeing on liking to hurt you, i mean that. it seems to me the greater the narcissism, the more of that there is. still related to gauging your reaction, though, for both disorders.

[Trog]

I'm still married! But separated now 13 months. Only been complete NC for a month. Before was LC, the kind of LC where you each blame one another and call the other names.

NC is a boon! I've made more progress in a month than I did in the 12 before. That is more progressive in feeling ok 95% of the time! not thinking or crying about my break up.

If someone was hurting me on purpose, or at all, they'd get short shrift these days, if they wouldn't shut up about their ex I'd have 0 patience for it. I've gone 7 years in an emotional boxing match and I'm a lean, tough emotional warrior now. No one could even get a punch in anymore. Not in a jaded, closed off way, I now know what is acceptable and what not and no hot body or pretty face will change that. ... .Again... .

[cosmonaut]

I think this is an important realization, Trog.  Maybe this was a relationship founded upon lust and not love.  Only you can really answer that.  Physical attraction is important in a relationship, I won't deny that, but in my opinion it's rather down the list.  It can't hold a relationship together.  There must be something deeper for there to be lasting love.  Do you think there is any hope of that occurring with your wife, or are you relatively certain that the relationship doesn't have much beyond physical attraction?  It's OK if it's the later, and that's an important realization.  That's how we learn to form healthier relationships with that level of honest self-analysis.   

[Trog]

she's not kind to me. Never was.

I don't find her physically attractive anymore anyway.

Going back to that relationship would be dishonouring myself and all ive learnt since I left and dishonouring her into the bargain. I do not like her.