When she says that I said something...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

When the uBPDw tells me that I said something that I have no recollection of saying -- especially something that is the opposite of what I'm feeling/thinking -- it makes me feel like I am going crazy.

I was advised by a lawyer to not leave the house (as it could set up a situation where I end up paying two rents).

So the uBPDw insists I told her that I would find another place to stay for a week or so.  Of course, 95% of all our communication is via e-mail, but she insists I said this during one of our two phone conversations during the past three months.

I hate being in a position like this, where she insists I said something, but I feel I didn't.  I start to doubt everything.  I hate it.

Gomez

[gomez_addams]

When the uBPDw tells me that I said something that I have no recollection of saying -- especially something that is the opposite of what I'm feeling/thinking -- it makes me feel like I am going crazy.

I was advised by a lawyer to not leave the house (as it could set up a situation where I end up paying two rents).

So the uBPDw insists I told her that I would find another place to stay for a week or so.  Of course, 95% of all our communication is via e-mail, but she insists I said this during one of our two phone conversations during the past three months.

I hate being in a position like this, where she insists I said something, but I feel I didn't.  I start to doubt everything.  I hate it.

Gomez

[once removed]

hey gomez,

i feel your pain and on a few levels i can relate. i remember saying something, and my exBPD found it incredibly painful, perhaps ultimately too painful, and i never actually said it. itd make it pretty hard to feel guilty for something i hadnt even said, and she was trying to guilt me for.

i assume you are familiar with the various communication techniques employed on the staying and undecided forum; theyre good advice in general and future relationships. they are not a guarantee.

it can be useful regardless to try to find the truth in what theyre saying we said, even if theres little to none, and not necessarily entailing internalizing it. can you think of anything you said over the phone that could be taken or twisted? that would at least help you have some clear understanding, no matter how extreme the example.

i wasnt in your exact position, my ex and i werent ever engaged, but i assure you i empathize   i think it stands to reason that on some level the proximity is going to effect you and your reality. accepting that is helpful, but definitely not a cure and doesnt remove the pain. hang in there, youre making progress whether you can see it or not. we are here for you in the mean time

[gomez_addams]

Really appreciate it, man.

There are times she says I said something, or denies having said something, and I know that I'm remembering it accurately -- or more accurately than she is depicting.  In this case it's frustrating because I just don't remember saying it, and was/am thinking the opposite because of the advice of the lawyer.

And I constantly get accused of having "schizoid personality disorder" -- or something similar -- that causes me to confuse fact and fiction.  I get gaslighted to the point where I really do question my sanity.  So I cave.  I struggle to set boundaries as it is, and feel compelled to be reasonable.

In reality, I just end up caving in and digging a deeper hole.

Today she's on my case for not having filed for divorce yet.  Over the past few weeks she's asked me to consider a legal separation in lieu of divorce.  It's these lose-lose, no-win situations that have driven me to the brink.

I'm thinking now the best thing to do is to straight up file, forgo mediation, and let the court divide our assets.  Yet, I agreed to mediation.  So now I'm in another no-win situation.

I'm beginning to hate her.  I don't like this "hateful" feeling.

Gomez

[once removed]

my ex was diagnosed (bipolar), would originally own her issues, and over the relationship, increasingly blame me and call me "mentally ill". its maddening. although it made me question myself, i didnt believe it, so i suspect your situation is even more crazy making. i want to be careful in any of my advice due to that.

youve expressed a couple of, albeit possibly minute differences with your lawyer. does your lawyer have a knowledge of or experience with personality disorders that they know of? thats hardly a requirement, might not even make for the best result, but its easy for me to see where it might make you feel more validated. my father is a family lawyer and divorce lawyer, but his knowledge of personality disorders is about what ive told him. again, im not sure it matters. 

"So I cave.  I struggle to set boundaries as it is, and feel compelled to be reasonable."

i partially relate to this. i feel guilty after enforcing a boundary. sometimes i wish id put it more lightly, more of a joke. i try to remind myself boundaries are about me and they are an inherently, necessarily, selfish concept. if you consistently enforce them, im not sure this is the worst of feelings. questioning your sanity and dealing with a pwBPD obviously takes it further. if you look at them selfishly though, i think it can be more helpful to think in terms of not "what will i take?" but "what can i take"? determining those limitations cannot be wrong. coming from a religious background, ive twisted a lot of scripture around to believe that i was at fault, and ought to tolerate more than i should. religion isnt so important here, just that its part of my identity, ive struggled with it, so i like to think i can at least relate.

"Today she's on my case for not having filed for divorce yet.  Over the past few weeks she's asked me to consider a legal separation in lieu of divorce.  It's these lose-lose, no-win situations that have driven me to the brink.

I'm thinking now the best thing to do is to straight up file, forgo mediation, and let the court divide our assets.  Yet, I agreed to mediation.  So now I'm in another no-win situation.

I'm beginning to hate her.  I don't like this "hateful" feeling"

as i mentioned, i was never engaged, but ive watched my fathers work and even been involved with it, let alone what ive read on this board. due to my inexperience id more than hesitate to give you advice in that department; i trust youve been posting on the legal board too. those folks can give you great advice along with experience. however: have you taken her proposal up with your lawyer? regardless, you seem to be leaning with your gut on your next move, and id take that up with your laywer too.

it seems to me, the less messy, the better. i dont think you have an attitude about "winning" this conflict, and i think thats going to suit you very well. the outcome of mediation or court doesnt necessarily have any bearing on you as a person. i think, as hard as it is to keep to a bottom line, your bottom line ought to be able to get through this process with as little mess as possible, not necessarily the dividends themselves. i could be entirely wrong in that advice, and thats why its important to check up with the legal board and your lawyer. just recommending a general attitude that this conflict ought not be so much about "winning", and i think your attitude reflects that.

frankly, as you mention starting to hate her, i think you in all likelihood still will have a fair amount of grieving to do, or at least it should be expected. she could approach this exchange in a way that makes her as hateable as possible to you, and you still may experience conflicting feelings, and you should know way ahead of time that thats okay. if i were in your position id probably lean into that feeling, and i actually suspect that would be bad advice. this is about doing the best you can do, whatever that means, and leaving a great deal of it to a lawyer you are confident in.

[enlighten me]

Been there too. I was accussed of having alzeihmers by my ex as I couldnt remember things she said or because she denied saying things that she had. You do doubt your own sanity. I ended up writing everything down as I was sick of being told I had forgotten to get something she had never asked for.

Trust your sanity. If youve never had a problem with your memory and no one else has ever commented on it then its probably not you. My ex could twist good morning into something Malicious so a struggle like yours will get twisted to an answer they want to hear.

[once removed]

" she could approach this exchange in a way that makes her as hateable as possible to you, and you still may experience conflicting feelings, and you should know way ahead of time that thats okay."

i should say, she could approach this exchange in a way that you wouldnt expect at all, and you still may experience conflicting feelings, and you should know way ahead of time that thats okay 

[LonelyChild]

My uBPDxgf did this all the time. "You said x, don't you remember saying it?". All the time. I never said those crazy things. "You promised me x". No, I never did. Don't fall for it. Stay strong.

[gomez_addams]

Thanks for the advice and affirmation, folks.

I have to keep reminding myself that the absolute worst case scenario in all of this is that I have to put off my dream of heading to college for a few years.  I'm in my early 40s, and have been planning for about 10 years to leave my job in 2016 and go full-time to school.  I have a limited ability to stay with my current employer, with a strange archaic specialty that doesn't have many openings beyond the one I'm in.

I could hang on for another 1-2 years, with decent pay/benefits, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Part of it is selfishness that I'm not getting what I want.  I want to know what this is going to cost me so I can figure out how many months it will take to get to where I need to be.  Not knowing is eating me alive.  Not knowing when this will be over.  Not knowing what the bank account will look like.  Not knowing if I'll have to raid the retirement accounts.  Not knowing how long it will take to restock the accounts.

I know I'll have a ton of grieving to do once it's all said and done.  I'm trying to avoid the emotions so I can focus on life -- going to work, sticking to the budget, finding some cheap fun to distract myself with, getting on with the healing. 

I'm meeting with my parish priest tomorrow.  He knows both of us. 

Fun fact: when I was discussing divorce with him a month ago -- and he's not much of an advocate of that, as you can imagine -- he asked if I thought there was a healthy person inside her that just needed some time, or if there was truly no hope.  That's the conversation that cemented in my mind what I needed to do.  He's probably the only person that could have told me that.  Everyone else screams TRO and divorce!, but coming from him opened my eyes.

I've also got a good therapist who is well-versed in BPD. 

I'm grateful for this board.

Gomez

[Targeted]

Been there too. I was accussed of having alzeihmers by my ex as I couldnt remember things she said or because she denied saying things that she had. You do doubt your own sanity. I ended up writing everything down as I was sick of being told I had forgotten to get something she had never asked for.

Trust your sanity. If youve never had a problem with your memory and no one else has ever commented on it then its probably not you. My ex could twist good morning into something Malicious so a struggle like yours will get twisted to an answer they want to hear.

.   I love this!  My ex would return to older conversations and re-write them in her head into me saying things like I did not love her or I wanted to find somebody else, she would also re-wright things like you said you would do this or that or pay for this or that or help with this or that or do this or that!  When I would tell her she is wrong she would accuse me of having alcohol dementia and that's why I don't remember! 

[gomez_addams]

. 

The fact that you can laugh about it now gives me some hope.

Thanks!

Gomez

[enlighten me]

. 

The fact that you can laugh about it now gives me some hope.

Thanks!

Gomez

You'll be amazed at how much you eventually laugh at. I find myself shaking my head and having a little giggle when I get reminded of something they said or did.

I think there will always be some regrets but the a lot more relief.

[Targeted]

. 

The fact that you can laugh about it now gives me some hope.

Thanks!

Gomez

It hurt for a long time!  They talk about radical acceptance on the staying bored to radically accept your partner And their disorder in order to try to make the relationship work! I liked the theory of radical acceptance by applying radical acceptance just to my ex was too narrow and was not working for me because I am a human being with my own thoughts, beliefs, and desires, so I broadened my thinking and applied radical acceptance to reality!   The reality is that this is her, what is also real is the beautiful person that lies beneath The disorder but I need to radically except she would rather continue to operate from the messy outer protective shell rather then Break that shell open and operate from The beauty within!   Is it not that beauty that they do have inside of them that we all saw that keeps us attached?  I really think it is!  All of their ridiculous accusations are nothing more than a defence mechanism for their own fears that have nothing to do with us!  If it is not that then it is merely projection!  that is what I have radically excepted! I hope that helps

[going places]

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

It is worth the read.