she can't handle me having feelings

[Depression = 72% of members]

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me. In our case it's all emotional pain, nothing physical, but as you know this is just as damaging.

As if that wasn't hard enough to deal with, making me feel like I'm not EVER entitled to express my pain or even have any... .

I am stuck in a situation where I'm leaving but can't officially or physically leave this marriage yet. My (ex)BPDw is demanding to know all the nitty gritty down to the finest detail of why I want to leave. I respect this, because I know her motivation is to try to understand what's happening between us (and maybe - though I doubt it - what's happening inside her!) and also to begin to let go. It's a very responsible thing to do. But every time I tell her one of my reasons (which she sometimes drags out of me), she blows up.

Today it was about how uncomfortable I feel when she's with me in a group. She lost it; accusations were flying about imagined accusations - you know how it goes. I stayed collected and did not let her break me, and even though she couldn't hear the ACTUAL THINGS I WAS SAYING (how I feel) as opposed to her wildly inaccurate interpretations (how evil she is), and even though she stormed off in the middle of it, I managed lots of validating words. It went so fast (as usual) I don't really know how I did it, but I did, and that makes me happy.

Also, it makes me feel justified in leaving. This is just so wrong.

[emergent]

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me. In our case it's all emotional pain, nothing physical, but as you know this is just as damaging.

As if that wasn't hard enough to deal with, making me feel like I'm not EVER entitled to express my pain or even have any... .

I am stuck in a situation where I'm leaving but can't officially or physically leave this marriage yet. My (ex)BPDw is demanding to know all the nitty gritty down to the finest detail of why I want to leave. I respect this, because I know her motivation is to try to understand what's happening between us (and maybe - though I doubt it - what's happening inside her!) and also to begin to let go. It's a very responsible thing to do. But every time I tell her one of my reasons (which she sometimes drags out of me), she blows up.

Today it was about how uncomfortable I feel when she's with me in a group. She lost it; accusations were flying about imagined accusations - you know how it goes. I stayed collected and did not let her break me, and even though she couldn't hear the ACTUAL THINGS I WAS SAYING (how I feel) as opposed to her wildly inaccurate interpretations (how evil she is), and even though she stormed off in the middle of it, I managed lots of validating words. It went so fast (as usual) I don't really know how I did it, but I did, and that makes me happy.

Also, it makes me feel justified in leaving. This is just so wrong.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Emergent,

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me.

This is very typical for a pwBPD. PwBPD tend to have emotions/cognitions of shame, low self-esteem, and self-loathing. Many pwBPD refer to themselves as "evil" or "bad." The feelings associated with these self-perceptions are very painful. To avoid these feelings/emotions, pwBPD engage in maladaptive coping mechanisms, such as projection, dissociation, impulsive behaviors, withdrawal, and avoidance.

As if that wasn't hard enough to deal with, making me feel like I'm not EVER entitled to express my pain or even have any... .

I understand how tough it is to express your feelings and communicate with a pwBPD. Have you tried communication techniques when having discussions?

[emergent]

I've done a bit of nonviolent communication training. A weekend intensive workshop a few years ago, and an attempt at mediation with my BPDw through a therapist using this techinique. That was *incredibly* hard for my BPDw. It is not easy to stick to communicating without violence - talking about my own feelings, listening to hers and trying to find the needs behind the feelings - especially when the person in front of you is losing it and throwing whackloads of violence out. It's very hard, actually. But I feel I'm not so bad at it even if I slip up sometimes. There are bad days; today is a good day. Still, I want out.

By the way, there have been two further incidents today with basically the same form and I've managed to stick to nonviolence. It's hard to receive so much violence, though. I'm so tired... .

[Sunfl0wer]

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me. In our case it's all emotional pain, nothing physical, but as you know this is just as damaging.

As if that wasn't hard enough to deal with, making me feel like I'm not EVER entitled to express my pain or even have any... .

I am stuck in a situation where I'm leaving but can't officially or physically leave this marriage yet. My (ex)BPDw is demanding to know all the nitty gritty down to the finest detail of why I want to leave. I respect this, because I know her motivation is to try to understand what's happening between us (and maybe - though I doubt it - what's happening inside her!) and also to begin to let go. It's a very responsible thing to do. But every time I tell her one of my reasons (which she sometimes drags out of me), she blows up.

Today it was about how uncomfortable I feel when she's with me in a group. She lost it; accusations were flying about imagined accusations - you know how it goes. I stayed collected and did not let her break me, and even though she couldn't hear the ACTUAL THINGS I WAS SAYING (how I feel) as opposed to her wildly inaccurate interpretations (how evil she is), and even though she stormed off in the middle of it, I managed lots of validating words. It went so fast (as usual) I don't really know how I did it, but I did, and that makes me happy.

Also, it makes me feel justified in leaving. This is just so wrong.

My ex absolutely could not tolerate any talk about my emotional pain, unless he could rescue me from it!  (He has more NPD traits vs BPD). So if I expressed he hurt me... .he would rage!  Accuse!  Attack!  This was both devastating to me and baffling.  These were the times he seemed most cognitively undone, he would just speak, and it would not make sense.  It made so little sense that I cannot even recall an example to tell you.  It is like remembering the numbers 1,2,3.  That makes sense... .but ask me to remember 4,20, & 2,798... .it is harder because they don't make much sense.

The more I tried to express feelings that involved him that were not positive... .the more sensitive he became to overreacting to perceived insults or injury... .even when I was NOT making a negative expression but a positive one!  I remember once telling him how awesome dinner was... .he flipped out and said, "I always make a good dinner!" Huh? He read negativity into it when it wasn't there.  He thought I was implying he FINALLY made a good dinner!  *sigh*

It is common around here that many of us turn into a trigger for our SO, that this gets increasingly easy to trigger, the cycles can become stronger and closer together.

[Sunfl0wer]

I've done a bit of nonviolent communication training. A weekend intensive workshop a few years ago, and an attempt at mediation with my BPDw through a therapist using this techinique. That was *incredibly* hard for my BPDw. It is not easy to stick to communicating without violence - talking about my own feelings, listening to hers and trying to find the needs behind the feelings - especially when the person in front of you is losing it and throwing whackloads of violence out. It's very hard, actually. But I feel I'm not so bad at it even if I slip up sometimes. There are bad days; today is a good day. Still, I want out.

By the way, there have been two further incidents today with basically the same form and I've managed to stick to nonviolence. It's hard to receive so much violence, though. I'm so tired... .

 

Good for you sticking to your communication tools!  I know this is hard!  It would be for me.  It is also possible that you doing well with the tools is further insult.  Your partner can see this as you flaunting it... .then really trying to break you down so you don't succeed... .so that you don't look so good.

Hang in there!  Keep doing it for you!

[Lilute]

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me. In our case it's all emotional pain, nothing physical, but as you know this is just as damaging.

As if that wasn't hard enough to deal with, making me feel like I'm not EVER entitled to express my pain or even have any... .

I understand you so much!

For me this was the most painful part of the situation, and is still hurting nowaday... .I mean that I feel like it has a big consecuence on my self-esteem and recovery ability.

Everytime I was trying to express my negative feeling about something (simple and common things) he reacted defensive, he use to tell me "don't say that, you are making me fell bad"... .I started to walk on eggshells... .and when he became emotionally abusive I was trying to explain my pain in the more assertive and positive way, but he always reacted evitating or saying that it was my fault.

Last time I met him, after he brake up, I say to him that I think his behaviour was sometimes abusive, that I know he is a good person and that I know this is not his fault (he has a history of family emotional abuse), but that I think it would be important for him to work it.

He get mad, he raged and he started to blame me and punish me verbally.

So, my advice, if I can give you one, is:

- stay calm;

- never forget your partner has a mental illness;

- try to cope with validation tools;

- but always, always, always protect yourself and your bounderies;

A big hug!

   

[emergent]

Sunflower, Lilute, thank you both so much. I take those hugs and bits of advice with a lot of gratitude.

Sunflower, you put into words precisely what I see in my BPDw. The twisting compliments into "Finally you did something right!" and the nonsense coming out of her mouth that makes it impossible to make sense of her, let alone describe the conversation or even remember it later.

Lilute, I get the feeling you are French? I am Canadian but living in France, and if I am right about you we may have some of the same cultural references. People are different in different cultures and I have noticed many differences in levels along the spectrum of BPD traits between my two countries. Everyone has these traits at some level and of course in both countries the majority of people are within normal levels. But I see differences in what's considered normal in the majority.

I'm sorry to hear about the latest raging episode you went through Lilute. It's so hard, trying to be honest and caring but having the other person express that you have bad intentions. Sometimes, somehow, I don't know how, you can end up believing that. This is the fog I'm starting to come out of now. I'm emergent... .Not believing it anymore. 

[going places]

Is it typical of a pwBPD to react most strongly to a confrontation about causing pain to his/her SO? My (ex)BPDw can't handle me telling her she's hurt me.

When I would tell my ex (for the first 10 years of our marriage) that he or his actions hurt me or scared me his response would be:

Glare at me, wad is face up in disgust, roll his eyes, raise his hand up in a 'shoeing' motion as he turned his back and walked away... .and say things like " I never said that / did that' or "you (meaning me) took that wrong that's not my problem". But 95% of the time, it was just a glare, wadded face, rolled eyes, then DAYS, I mean DAYS of silent treatment.

Then I would do or say something nice to him / for him so he would stop punishing me and he would be all smiles and act like nothing happened. If I tried to revisit the topic? Glare, wadded face, rolled eyes, and silent treatment would start all over... .

From year 10 to year 21 i never told him when he hurt me. I just stuffed it. I hated the silent treatment more than whatever else he was doing... .

It's not that he couldn't handle my feelings, it's that he didn't care.

He had zero care and concern for me.

As long as he got what he wanted out of me, he was happy... .but the give and take in our marriage went like this: I gave, he took. The end.

[emergent]

Wow, going places, that sounds pretty awful.

This is an honest question: is it possible he cared so much that he couldn't handle it? Or not? In my case, BPDw does care, and it's very obvious to me.

There's so much pain in your story, and over such a long time. I bet you're still hurting.

Hugs   

[emergent]

It is also possible that you doing well with the tools is further insult.  Your partner can see this as you flaunting it... .then really trying to break you down so you don't succeed... .so that you don't look so good.

This is totally what happens.

I just want to say how amazing it is to find this wealth of people here who understand what my BPDw is really like and who know what I'm going through. I'm just... .wow. So grateful.

[emergent]

going places, it's funny... .I prefer the silent treatment to raging. I don't get the silent treatment very often, but I got it this morning, and it was a little bit more peaceful than the rage-filled afternoon. To each his/her own!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey emergent, I agree that pwBPD have little empathy for the feelings of others, because it's all about their feelings.  In fact, my BPDxW would get indignant when I attempted to express my feelings.  It was a one-way street, which is not my idea of a healthy r/s.  LJ

[tortuga]

Honestly, to me, after 22 years, the silent treatment is bliss.

. . . but back on topic; yes, it has been my experience that I need to just keep my feelings to myself around uBPDw. It's horribly unhealthy for us to do this.  But it is better than triggering the unpleasant reactions that result.

For my emotional outlet; I will sometimes unload on friends. We do that for each other. The rest of the time, I rely on my therapist. Sometimes just getting some alone time - getting in the car and driving, helps.  Intense physical exercise also helps. I also try to meditate.

[going places]

Wow, going places, that sounds pretty awful.

This is an honest question: is it possible he cared so much that he couldn't handle it? Or not? In my case, BPDw does care, and it's very obvious to me.

There's so much pain in your story, and over such a long time. I bet you're still hurting.

Hugs   

His silent treatment was meant as punishment... .

www.buzzle.com/articles/is-the-silent-treatment-a-form-of-abuse.html

The purpose of / end goal of 'silent treatment' was to get me to 'do' whatever it was he wanted, to punish me for saying or doing something he did not like, or to get me to lose my mind so he could say "well, calm down crazy, what's the problem".

Example

We were going to mount the surround sound speakers on the wall.

The speaker would hang about 3 feet above the floor, but we didn't want a wire exposed, so he drilled a hole behind the speaker to feed the wire into, and then a hole at the base board to bring the wire out of... .

Well, the cussing and throwing of tools began, so I took the kids with me to the grocery.

2 hours later, when I arrived home, there he sits, angry.

I put away the groceries and asked if I could help.

He said "there's nothing you can do, if I can't figure this out, it can't be done".

I said "hang on, let me try something"

So he backs up in a huff and says "whatever".

I straightened out a wire coat hanger, taped the wire to the hanger, put the hanger/wire in the top hole and then for about 5 min, fished around for the bottom hole; found it and pulled it thru!

He GLARED at me the whole time.

Then he says "that's ridiculious, I've spent 2 hours trying to figure this out, and you just walk in here with some jimmy rigged idea and it works. I'M AN ENGINEER"

And then he did not speak to me for 3 days... .Not a word.

He glared at me, but didn't speak a word, so I cracked, begged him to forgive me for making him mad.

((really all he wanted was sex, so... .by day 3 he stopped glaring, and figured out a way to make ME feel guilty and make ME apologize, so he could get what he wanted.))

No, he did not care.

He is more ASPD / NPD and just a really bad person.

[emergent]

Yes, I can very much relate to this kind of exchange, with the exception of the 3-day silent treatment. I'm sorry you had to go through it. My BPD(ex)w is a rager, with shorter cycles than that. The glare... .I know it well, too, but again, it doesn't last as long. One minute, maybe.

[Loosestrife]

Honestly, to me, after 22 years, the silent treatment is bliss.

. . . but back on topic; yes, it has been my experience that I need to just keep my feelings to myself around uBPDw. It's horribly unhealthy for us to do this.  But it is better than triggering the unpleasant reactions that result.

For my emotional outlet; I will sometimes unload on friends. We do that for each other. The rest of the time, I rely on my therapist. Sometimes just getting some alone time - getting in the car and driving, helps.  Intense physical exercise also helps. I also try to meditate.

I've been doing this for 2 years - how have you managed 22?

[Loosestrife]

When  my PwBPD says something nasty out of the blue, I will point it out calmly that it is unreasonable/hurtful and ask if it she is misdirecting her anger at me. She wi eventually admit yes but the fact that I pointed it out hurts her so much that this then becomes the issue. Over silent treatment (which I am grateful to sometimes) and then eventuall thins blow over. They never get resolved. For my own sanity I have to point out if I feel I am being unfairly abused by my SO. If anyone else has any advice on the best way  to this kind of scenario then I would be really  interested.

[emergent]

Good for you, Loosestrife. It's good that you're thinking of your sanity.

I am not sure I should be giving advice to you since I am giving up on my relationship with BPD(ex)w for doing the kind of things your SO does. I can't get myself heard, and get nothing but rage back. Never any resolution. I have a pretty good idea of what "works" but it involves erasing myself and I am no longer willing/able to do that.

Perhaps over on the "Staying" board you can find some kindred spirits?

In any case I really feel for you. It is so hard when being hurt and honest about it just gets you more hurt. I poured a humungous amount of energy into pretending I didn't hurt for way too many years.

All the best to you.

[Sunfl0wer]

 

It is also possible that you doing well with the tools is further insult.  Your partner can see this as you flaunting it... .then really trying to break you down so you don't succeed... .so that you don't look so good.

This is totally what happens.

I just want to say how amazing it is to find this wealth of people here who understand what my BPDw is really like and who know what I'm going through. I'm just... .wow. So grateful.

 . 

I am too so grateful for this safe, knowledgable, supportive group!