I love her but reality is slipping away.

[BevmanBeyond]

I've been with (who is now my) fiancé for almost 5 years. We've talked with a handful of counselors, gone through various treatments and programs, and I really really really WANT to say we've made progress, but honestly sometimes, I feel I'm just going crazier.

First off, its highly possible, or maybe even highly likely that my mother is borderline, or for sure has some personality disorder. Through much of my own personal experience from and during therapy, I'm still creating situations in my life to "fix" an incredibly corrupt, inappropriate, and now, non-existent relationship with my mother.

But, honestly, I could fill this forum with more and more words and go on for hours and hours, but let's just cut to the chase, this is a sexual issue and I'm sure it would be more interesting to a reader.

We've (my fiancé and I) done just about every "fix your relationship" recipe online, and according to what we do actually do, all these things say we should have THEE best relationship ever. I don't think they are factoring in dealing with BPD.

The current "fix your relationship" one we've been working on is only in day two or three, but it suggested "having sex in a new place, some place you've never had sex before". That, added to the theory of "public sex" or implied "dangerous" sex adding to your relationship, inspired me to come up with the following scenario:

I'm a "delivery driver" to keep this kinda vague, and every once in awhile I have a small 7 foot high, maybe 12 feet long trailer that gets parked at our apartment overnight. We have to park it on a somewhat busy street, in a somewhat quiet, small-ish town.

Today, while driving it home from work, basically empty, I thought, "Hey, I bet we could have sex in here and it'd seem more 'erotic' and 'dangerous' than it really was. So, before I parked it for the night, I organized the few items left in it and scoped it out for its possible sexual comfort-ability. I called my fiancé and said "I have this idea for our love task tonight, give it an open mind and tell me what you think... ."

I explained how I'd park it on the street, later into the evening, when most people are asleep, we'd sneak out to it with a flashlight. It has no windows, its insulated a little, and it has locking doors. Their is a tire in their to possible help with height difference between us for some standing sex, the insulation would buffer most the sound, plus make it a little more comfortable, and we'd be safe because it locks. I called my coworker / sorta boss and asked if he could pick it up in the morning instead of that night because sometimes it changes and with some crafty wording, I got him to agree without lying to him or anything. It was all getting very exciting.

I arrived home still during daylight hours about 7:30 - 8:00 and expressed excitement to my BPD fiancé, but also told her, "Baby, I'm sorry, but I'm 4 days behind on my paperwork and I will have to finish it before (my coworker) gets the trailer in the a.m." I wanted to set a proper expectation as sometimes that much paperwork could take a couple hours.

It was obviously too early to attempt with the sun still up, so we decided to watch a movie. My BPD's idea of us watching a movie often involves a lot of time with her on her phone, but I've just gotten used to it. She's Facebooking, or looking at pictures, whatever, its also probably an attention thing. But while watching the movie, she doses off a few times. Now, being with her for 5 years, I've learned my lesson about fading asleep while watching a movie together, or falling asleep during any activity that we're sharing is completely taken by her as "not interested", "not caring", even "not in love". But for me, if she's tired, she's tired, let her catch a few zzz's.

During our movie, a Severe Thunderstorm Warning comes up till 8:58p.m. (she's always so precise and exact on times that 8:58 was mentioned about 858 times). But I kept checking the window, and we never really got anything more than a light rain. The movie ended well into the later half of the 9 o'clock hour and she'd slept on and off maybe 20 -30 minutes during the movie. Seeing as how the rain stopped, I asked, "Are we still on for the trailer?"

"No. It rained."

I was a little taken aback and disappointed, but I thought, "no use in fighting it". And have up on it. As she proceeded to get ready for bed, I mentioned I really needed to get my four days of paperwork done. I decided I'd take the paperwork and the laptop into the bedroom to do it, to still spend time with her as I finished up. She lied in bed, playing on Facebook and doing things on her phone. The paperwork took maybe an hour and half but by the time I was done she'd put a pillow over her head and managed to fall asleep. I took my paperwork out to the vehicle getting picked up in the morning that was towing what would have been our 3 minute sneaky sex wagon, smiled and shrugged to myself, "kinda silly". I climbed into bed and cuddled up close to her. She was laying kinda funny and her elbow was digging right into my chest, but no big deal, that's just a sacrifice for being close.

My BPD often has "Night Rages", where she pretty much goes berserk and claims to not remember the majority of what she has said and done the next morning, but I really didn't expect one this evening, I can usually kinda tell. But at 2:00a.m. I was awakened to, "You totally ruined our night."

Now, we've had conversations ranging into the thousands about her "Night Rages" and the bullying that occurs, but even so, it takes me a minute still to get my bearings. I woke up enough to get told, 'I didn't even want to have sex with her', 'I don't care that I hurt her feelings', and how I could've spared the 'less than 3 minutes' to have sex with her.

I'm a dude. I wanted sex all day. I want sex all day, nearly every day. But I also respect boundaries on sex, I'm never forceful, and I've learned to except that sometimes, often times, if it doesn't play out just right, I ain't getting it. Anyways, the fight proceeds on, I'm reminded how its all my fault, how I don't really love her, etc etc etc. and I'm sitting in the bath, alone nearly 4a.m. going, "How... .What... .But... ." And this is my life. If I don't spend days apologizing for whatever it is a did, I'm a jerk, an ass, whatever else. I'm so lost as to what's real anymore... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Have to give you full marks for trying to keep life adventurous.

There is probably a lot of inconsistent feelings and thoughts going on in her mind. At the end of the day she probably wanted you to make the decision and hence probably take responsibility for something that had the potential to either go well or bad.

The more you learn about disorders the more traits you pick up, hence even as you travel the path you seem to see it getting bigger. So you feel like it is going nowhere at times. It is good to find a way to look back and see what you have achieved.

You are right in your belief that standard counselling often misses the mark, as it assumes you can both at least speak the same language and reach agreements which can be stuck to.

You also need to work on not being pressured into constantly apologizing

[Notwendy]

Yes, being adventurous might add some spice to the relationship. But when a relationship has issues, spice may not be the fix. Adding spice to a casserole might make it more delicious, but not as much when the casserole needs some work in the first place.

First, every one of us in a r/s with someone with BPD very likely has some issues that got us here in the first place and are contributing to the dysfunction. My first reason for saying this is that you are here. ( welcome ! ). The second one is that you say your mother has BPD. Mine does too- and I know that being raised in that style of family has an influence, even if we are doing pretty well otherwise. In a sense that can mask it. We kids did well in school and people would say " it couldn't have been so bad, look at how well you are doing". However, emotionally we could have used some help.

I too, spent a lot of time doing things to "fix" the relationship, but that didn't seem to work well. However, doing things to repair myself - therapy, 12 step co-dependency groups and sponsor- was more effective. Working on the relationship is good- just add this part to it.

Yes, sex is a major issue, but it seems that the common thread is that sex issues relate to intimacy and communication issues in our r/s. So whether you do it in the van, on the roof, in a plane, or your home, or not at all, you are still the two of you, and of that combination, the only one you can "fix" is you.

One of the aspects of dysfunctional thinking is looking at things in black and white. If my H was not happy with our sex lives, it didn't matter what we did as much as the fact that the bar was raised so high that I felt I could not meet it. This is because his dissatisfaction was a part of him, not me, and if he didn't deal with that, he would be unhappy no matter what, because it had nothing to do with me.

One thing that would lead to falling in that trap is deciding how something should be- and not having the flexibility to alter the idea- or be happy with an alternative. This rigidity isn't just with sex. If my H is going somewhere and I ask him to mail a letter on the way, this is not the plan and not sticking to the plan could lead to an argument. If I think H has a certain expectation for how sex should be at the end of the evening, then I am pretty anxious about it because in the course of the evening, things can change- for you it was the weather, for me it might be that a kid would feel sick and need mom.

Deciding to spice things up isn't a problem, but where I see the problem is not considering that alternatives might be necessary and enjoying those. It was "sex in the van" or "no sex" but there was another choice. When your financee expressed concern about the rain, instead of arguing over the rain- which invalidated her and set the tone against sex, you could have said " OK baby it's warm and dry inside" and gotten romantic... ."

I know you can't turn this backwards, but remember it for next time. You want sex? Buy some flowers, come home and try to enjoy the regular in the bed kind. Then you can set about planning something else. She might get the idea that the good old regular way isn't good enough for you. I don't think you want that to happen.

[Notwendy]

The night rages are common. They are horrible. We had them but now not so much. Part of that is an agreement in T not to discuss things when we are tired.

One of my reasons for why they happen is just that- tired. I think people with BPD and people in a r/s with them, tend to hold things back during the day, to avoid the confrontation. Then, at night, we are sleepy and more vulnerable. As we drift off to sleep the thinking part of us isn't as strong, and emotions are more apt to fly.

It is hard to stop them, as it is habit, but it takes two to fight and not engaging, even leaving the room is one step too stopping them.

[Stalwart]

Welcome Bevmanbeyond.

Glad to see you here. It seems to me for the most part you’re really in tuned with your wife’s idiosyncrasies and really engaged in trying to improve both of your lot’s in your relationship. That’s great.

You know there are so many nuances in our relationships and differences but for the most part there seem to be so many more similarities.

Is reality slipping away or awareness and understanding coming into a clearer focus Bev?

I’ve never done ‘night rages’ my wife sleeps like a log and forget the thunderstorm a hurricane wouldn’t wake her up. That’s all good though because we’re both similar in our takes on “ Hey babe, if you’re tired – you’re tired – sleep, it’s all good.” I see it as being part and parcel with the disorder, her drugs and mostly where she is with the intensity of her emotional state over something. I really find that sometimes it’s a simple response to pressure and expectations she feels that she is finding overwhelming for that moment.

I do morning repercussions instead of night rages. I know what I would be seeing and hearing from my wife if the situation were reversed and I’d done the trailer tricks. (By the way quite imaginative – sometimes the best laid plans……… eh?”)

Sometimes even for the best laid plans with the best of intensions we have to understand they’re still our plans, our hopes, excitements and expectations and weren’t necessarily part of their ‘plan’ for the day or night.

My wife would have been able to see my excitement at a plan like that and she would have really wanted to live up to those expectations, being sexual in nature sometimes makes that even more ‘important’ in our wife’s mind to meet our needs, that also aren’t always their needs on the same level and basis.

Had my wife fallen asleep while waiting for the execution on a plan and been tired I would have woken to a morning assault similar to yours at one time. My wife wakes up every morning of her life with an automatic and startling awakening to a lack of self-esteem and fear or insecurity in her relationship. To have not lived up to expectations she would wake up with a horrifying extreme of guilt for realizing or at least thinking she had failed the situation. That never really related to apologies but more to trying to offset the blame for the feelings she had about her own perceived failings.

You and I would have shrugged it off as “Oh well…” But that probably isn’t what she’s able to do, nor is she able to accept “if you’re tired you need to sleep babe” when there is the intensity of feelings of failure connected to it.

I’ve learned  to offset any feelings of fear or accountabilities in our relationship for the most part by being proactive every morning. It’s a kin to “50 First Dates.” Each morning she wakes to me kissing her forehead or shoulder and saying “Hey babe, I’ve gotta’ go now, I love you and can’t wait to get home.” It’s like a reset button for her to start her morning from a new perspective because she isn’t any longer waking up in horror of today being a threat to her or threatened by anything from the night or day before. She seems challenged to recall the good but has no challenge living constantly in reminders of things in the past she perceives as ‘bad’ about herself or someone else.

For all the outward appearance of being high-performing I can see the depth of her fears and understand the all-consuming emotions she has about ‘self-loathing’ and “ Why would anyone want to be with someone like me.” That so overwhelms her senses and rationalization. Most days you wouldn’t know it to talk to her or see her, but’s it’s always there.

Like I said there are differences in everyone’s nuances but sometimes there are far more likenesses. Just food for thought Bev.

[BevmanBeyond]

Wow. It is so great to have heard from so many people already that understand. Thank you all for your responses! It has definitely given me some things to think about.

Like, for instance, it had never crossed my mind about it seeming like I might have thought good old fashion sex wasn't good enough. Again, my  brain doesn't exactly work that way, so it was good for me to hear another perspective. I made sure to tell her today that I never meant to come across that way and that isn't at all how I feel. She wasn't really wanting to communicate, but I did feel like I got a little... .Maybe relief out of her on that, maybe... .

We've studied a bit about the "Night Rages", but I haven't been emotionally strong enough yet to still not let it hurt my feelings. I'm way better than I used to be, but the shoving, pushing, slugging, and the "I hate you"s are still rough.

I know that I have picked up some BPD traits, and yes, I was not a whole or healthy person getting into this relationship either. My basis for what is healthy and okay growing up was grossly inappropriate and unhealthy, so for the past 8 years, and more intensely the last 4.5 years has been therapy, group therapy, meditation, dietary adjustments, and lots and lots of books on tape by Wayne Dyer, Anthony Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Don Migel Ruiz, Susan Jeffers, Abraham (Ester & Jerry) Hicks, Ekhart Tolle, and article after article about Borderline, Bipolar, Step-Family, Co-parenting, Parental Alienation etc... .Its all very

[BevmanBeyond]

Overwhelming sometimes. I completely understand the idea "ignorance is bliss", I'm not saying I agree, I just understand. I know I'm no picnic, I've got some major things to work on, but it is good to know I'm not entirely crazy.

I've definitely become isolated in this relationship by good intentioned relationship therapy and advice. "Never talk badly about your spouse" is an idea I respect, but can definitely be misconstrued. Knowing that I can bring up issues to people who go through it or have without judgment has been very liberating, even though its only been one day. She really is the most amazing person, she's just complicated.

She's taken off her engagement ring. Insists that I broke up with her last night and won't "take me back". Its hard. I'm hurt. I'm sad. But I know and have tried to not give into the negative pattern behavior. I'm trying to just be chill and let her process it and figure it out.

I really can't thank you all enough. On my next day off, I'll try to get to everyone's response individually, because they all really helped me feel better. So, thank you.

[BevmanBeyond]

I'm trying to go to bed. Sleeping in the other room. Angry, because I feel like we're wasting so much time in a fight that is completely ridiculous.

We're supposed to go house hunting this weekend. The loan officer and the realtor have been calling, emailing, and texting. But, to her, we're broken up, so no more of that. I feel like this really isn't the end, just a pattern. But the time wasted, we never will get back.

We're supposed to go get the wedding band sized and stuff this weekend too that goes with get engagement ring too. But to her, we're broken up. Logic doesn't work on her. Its just time wasted again and again.

We miss so many events, so many opportunities, so many special things... .It gets aggravating. She comes around usually... .She always has come around, I guess is a better way to say it, because we're still here, she apologizes for all the chaos it creates once in awhile, but we never get that time back.

I'm not sure what to say to the realtor. Ugh. I'm frustrated.

[Stalwart]

"I'm not sure what to say to the realtor. Ugh. I'm frustrated. " Truth is always a good thing. Tell him or her that right now you just need a bit more time to consider what you want before you start looking. Searching for homes is in your ballpark, not really the realtors and at the best of times it's a big decision for two people to come together in their wants. The realtor is there to serve you, you aren't there to serve them.

There's time for that a bit later.