went from "I hate you" to "don't leave"

[maxsterling]

On a scale of 1-10 on the stress sale, I feel about a 17.  Last night was again bad, but bad the other way with the EXTREME neediness.  Again, we had another one of those OBGYN pre-conception appointments, so I let work early first to go to my T and then to the OBGYN.  I came home to find W in complete nervous breakdown mode, not wanting to go, not wanting to do anything, talking again about life being pointless.   I did manage to get her to the appointment, with her breaking down in the car a few times on the way there.

Good grief.

Afterwards was worse.  Hysterical crying, not wanting me to leave the her in a room alone, begging me not to go to my men's alanon meeting.  I wound up cooking dinner and got her to go for a short walk and do a little painting with me.  But I did skip my meeting  (which is what I badly needed) for fear she was not safe to leave home alone.

Tonight is another MC session.  This afternoon I placed calls with her P (left a message) just letting him know that I have serious concerns, that I am contemplating ending the r/s, and just to give him that heads up.   Also called my dad and let him know what was going on.  Mainly for emotional support, but also possibly financial since the $1100 ambulance bill  just came in the mail.  Not sure how much insurance will cover.

She begs me not to leave, she does take motions - but basically my whole last night was wasted AGAIN.  I cant live like this.  My T suggested going a more stern approach with her, and also suggested filing a police report for assault. 

I'd do anything to be next to a lake with a fishing pole in my hand right now.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[maxsterling]

It just feels so impossible not to love this woman.  And that's what makes this so excruciating.  Normal breakups usually have gotten to the point our feelings have waned.  This time it just feels like there is so much unhealthiness, that breakup is inevitable, no matter what I do, and my feelings of love for her will still be there.

Horrible, horrible feeling.

[ColdEthyl]

I am so sorry, Max  I hear about about that fishing pole... .sometimes I wish I could just hop in my car and go travel the state with my tripod and camera.

We need to do these things for ourselves.

[MaroonLiquid]

I am so sorry, Max  I hear about about that fishing pole... .sometimes I wish I could just hop in my car and go travel the state with my tripod and camera.

We need to do these things for ourselves.

This is why I love sports and coaching so much.  I am good at them, but they are an escape for me.  When I am out there, the issues of my marriage fade away. 

[vortex of confusion]

   

[maxsterling]

It's that feeling that some days I want to take the other "on ramp" and head the other direction, permanently.  Rip the Band-Aid off, cry and grieve for awhile, then start a new life somewhere else.

[vortex of confusion]

It's that feeling that some days I want to take the other "on ramp" and head the other direction, permanently.  Rip the Band-Aid off, cry and grieve for awhile, then start a new life somewhere else.

What is stopping you?

Keep things as peaceful as possible as you plan your exit strategy. Not trying to be cynical. Love is not enough. Love isn't going to make anybody's life better. She needs serious help.

[Verbena]

Do you have any thoughts yet on your exit strategy?  I think you are going to need other people there when you tell her.  I'm sure you've thought of all that could happen.  It scares me for you and her both. 

[maxsterling]

Verbena - I'm still 50/50 on this.  But I have contacted both her P and her T to let them know of the possibility.  May also try and discuss with her AA sponsor.  Her family is not helpful at all.  As for beyond that, right now I am just looking at the resources available to me, and stay organized, and take care of me.  I'm too emotionally distraught right now to be clear n my own head.   

But my gut is telling me that whatever the exit strategy will require having her or me another place set up to live in advance.  Once I make the break, she will definitely need serious psychological help, probably for months or years. 

[sweetheart]

Max what vortex said is so true. I believed with all my heart that if I loved my husband with everything breath in me I could heal him, fill the gaping hole that is BPD. It's not possible to fill that hole, the pwBPD has to learn to live with it, and as you are finding out, some like your w just can't.

I think if anything, love kind of gets in the way, it did for me, love can obscure and skew what we need to do in the same way that FOG can keep us stuck.

[Notwendy]

But I did skip my meeting  (which is what I badly needed) for fear she was not safe to leave home alone.

Taking care of yourself by going to a meeting is what you need, but you gave that up for fear she would do something destructive.

Most people would probably give up plans if a family member needed them, but I think the dynamics are different in other relationships. I would not think this is frequent in most cases, and not a behavioral pattern. What is different here is the behavioral loop.

Also, if your wife even gets a hint you might leave, this kind of behavior can ramp up, or she may become very loving and idealizing again. And seductive so here is my warning. If you are considering leaving( as you have stated) and you find it hard to leave- it will be a million times harder if she gets pregnant and has a baby. With a baby, the two of you will be in some kind of relationship forever, one way of another. If you don't think you can safely leave her alone, then surely you can not leave a baby or child alone with her.

So your wife gets anxious and needy, and instead of doing something for you, you stay with her constantly. This reinforces her behavior. She learns that acting like this gets you to stay. This is the behavior loop. It happens in other ways too. Kids get something called school phobia where they get a "stomach ache" every morning before school and mom lets them stay home. Often, the mom doesn't want the child to leave either. It can be a form of emotional enmeshment. The longer this goes on, the harder to break the loop.

So your wife has no incentive to stop her needy behavior. Why should she? It works to get her what she wants. How is this working for you?

You say it feels impossible not to love her. I hear you. These relationships are not easy to leave, otherwise this whole board would be empty. The bigger question is - can you love yourself?

[Verbena]

Max, do you own your current home?  Is she part owner?  I can't see your wife living anywhere on her own once you end the marriage. 

I think you are smart to take your time with this.  I still think she could end up hospitalized before you get the chance to actually end it.  If that happens, she would at least be in a safe place. 

[Notwendy]

Have you spent some time on the legal board asking about what options there would be for your wife if/when you leave? What support does she have ( family, etc). What public resources is she eligible for? For instance, if she has a mental disability - she could be eligible for social security, food stamps, possibly medicaid or subsidized health insurance? ( I am assuming you are in the USA but other countries may have supports)

I think you are naturally concerned for her being on her own. It may help to know what that is.

[sweetheart]

Max was your wife on her own before she met you, how did she manage then?

[maxsterling]

Max, do you own your current home?  Is she part owner?  I can't see your wife living anywhere on her own once you end the marriage. 

I think you are smart to take your time with this.  I still think she could end up hospitalized before you get the chance to actually end it.  If that happens, she would at least be in a safe place. 

My house, my name, my money... . Basically my thoughts are the same as yours.  Another hospitalization is inevitable.  And when that happens, maybe that is the best time to talk to her social worker, say that "I'm done" and then ask for assistance in finding her a new place to live.

[maxsterling]

Max was your wife on her own before she met you, how did she manage then?

She told me the other day that she engaged in risky behavior in "hopes she would be murdered."  Direct quote.   Basically, she DIDN'T manage.

[maxsterling]

Have you spent some time on the legal board asking about what options there would be for your wife if/when you leave? What support does she have ( family, etc). What public resources is she eligible for? For instance, if she has a mental disability - she could be eligible for social security, food stamps, possibly medicaid or subsidized health insurance? ( I am assuming you are in the USA but other countries may have supports)

I think you are naturally concerned for her being on her own. It may help to know what that is.

That's my next step, I think.  She gets social security, and has for years.  Was declared mentally incapable about 12 years ago, and every time she loses another job, the checks come in again.  She's been on food stamps, state health care, has been declared by the state as "Seriously Mentally Ill".  So she gets all that.   

What I am saying is that is if this marriage were to fail, she could have social services take care of those things, but emotionally her fate is likely a group home with 24/7 care for a long time.  Maybe I am being pessimistic, but hell most parents have an easier time getting their 13 year olds out of bed in the morning than I do my wife. 

[waverider]

On a scale of 1-10 on the stress sale, I feel about a 17.  Last night was again bad, but bad the other way with the EXTREME neediness.  Again, we had another one of those OBGYN pre-conception appointments, so I let work early first to go to my T and then to the OBGYN.  I came home to find W in complete nervous breakdown mode, not wanting to go, not wanting to do anything, talking again about life being pointless.   I did manage to get her to the appointment, with her breaking down in the car a few times on the way there.

Good grief.

Afterwards was worse.  Hysterical crying, not wanting me to leave the her in a room alone, begging me not to go to my men's alanon meeting.  I wound up cooking dinner and got her to go for a short walk and do a little painting with me.  But I did skip my meeting  (which is what I badly needed) for fear she was not safe to leave home alone.

Tonight is another MC session.  This afternoon I placed calls with her P (left a message) just letting him know that I have serious concerns, that I am contemplating ending the r/s, and just to give him that heads up.   Also called my dad and let him know what was going on.  Mainly for emotional support, but also possibly financial since the $1100 ambulance bill  just came in the mail.  Not sure how much insurance will cover.

She begs me not to leave, she does take motions - but basically my whole last night was wasted AGAIN.  I cant live like this.

Been there

  My T suggested going a more stern approach with her,

Did this

I'd do anything to be next to a lake with a fishing pole in my hand right now.

Now can do this when it suits me, without it creating drama

[waverider]

most parents have an easier time getting their 13 year olds out of bed in the morning than I do my wife.  

I have this problem too, any morning appointments are almost guaranteed no show regardless of how important. I have just accepted she is not going to surface before midday.

Work your me time around her inability to get out of bed, rather than stress about dragging her out of bed.


The fish bite better in the mornings anyway

[Notwendy]

Mornings were when we got time with dad when we were older and visited. We could go out for coffee and spend time with him. After he retired, he would go out for coffee in the mornings. Seems he also caught on to taking that morning "me time".

[DyingLove]

I am so sorry, Max  I hear about about that fishing pole... .sometimes I wish I could just hop in my car and go travel the state with my tripod and camera.

We need to do these things for ourselves.

I like that idea!  I love photography. Can't wait to see the grand canyon.

I love fishing too... .I don't think anything eases stress like fishing.

[SweetCharlotte]

Gee, Max, I have been following your story periodically for two years.

Now you are married and trying to have a baby, but you are still making plans to leave.

Still saying, "I can't live like this."

Before you two got married, I used to think that you were using her mental illness as an excuse to take advantage of her sexually and then leave.

Now I see that it goes deeper than that.

This is a very persistent form of co-dependence.

When I compare your situation to mine, although my uBPDh is much more functional, I have to admit that in some ways I am jealous.

I wish my spouse would crumble the way that yours does when she is afraid of losing you.

My H is capable of ignoring me and giving me the silent treatment for long periods, and it gets very lonely.

Is that what you are hooked on, this extreme dependence of hers? It is gratifying in some sense.

It doesn't give you time for yourself, but that means you never have to confront the abyss.

I wish you well. If you have a baby, things will get even more complicated.

However, this may be the way you were destined to bring a child into the world.

[formflier]

 

Max,

Can I write you a "prescription"... .or really... .force you to take your prescription... .

Get that fishing pole... .I don't do it near enough.  Some of my best memories are flying (Navy) out of Key West.  We would fly a mission and have a couple hours to the next one... .some missions could be stressful... .but... .all the little nooks and crannies of Boca Chica Key are filled with fish... .that needed to be caught... .the stress would melt away. 

And... .I could think more clearly about things... .


You are thinking big thoughts... .I'm not saying inappropriate... .but you need to be as clear as you can... .

Ask P... .how to get her into hospital... .to stay for long time... .same question of SW... .but if P doesn't seem onboard with a hospitalization... .my gut says it isn't going to happen... .

FF

[Notwendy]

Gee, Max, I have been following your story periodically for two years.

Now you are married and trying to have a baby, but you are still making plans to leave.

Still saying, "I can't live like this."

Before you two got married, I used to think that you were using her mental illness as an excuse to take advantage of her sexually and then leave.

Now I see that it goes deeper than that.

This is a very persistent form of co-dependence.

When I compare your situation to mine, although my uBPDh is much more functional, I have to admit that in some ways I am jealous.

I wish my spouse would crumble the way that yours does when she is afraid of losing you.

My H is capable of ignoring me and giving me the silent treatment for long periods, and it gets very lonely.

Is that what you are hooked on, this extreme dependence of hers? It is gratifying in some sense.

It doesn't give you time for yourself, but that means you never have to confront the abyss.

These are tough questions to consider, but I think they are important ones.

[sweetheart]

Max your wifes behaviour will continue to be and has been dysfunctional all her lif, in and out of relationships, including your marriage. You knew this when you met her, she told you her history, and her BPD traits were evident from the beginning for you. What you didn't know was what it would feel like to live with this level of dysfunction and chaos. You do now.

Treatment, medication, long stays in hospital, Ps and Ts are things that your w has had in her life from the off. She knows this is how she is, she s been living this way since she was a teenager, maybe earlier. She is nearly 40.

If you are going to stay, what do you think you need to do to continue ? How can you break the codependent dynamic that keeps both you and your w stuck?

If you cannot break free from the need to rescue your wife and put yourself first, nothing will change.

[Verbena]

Max, if/when you are ready to end your relationship, your exit strategy is actually pretty simple.  Just follow your therapist's advice to be more "stern" with your wife.  "Stern" could be any or all of the following statements:

*Please do not tell our marriage counselor again that I do never make the bed or clean the house because you know it isn't true.

*Please stop screaming at me because I don't deserve it and can't tolerate it anymore. 

*I cannot go to any more pre-conception doctor's appointments because having a baby is not an issue we should  be exploring.   

Those are all reasonable statements and true statements that should be said.  They are also almost surely guaranteed to generate a rage and a another physical attack on you.  So you then call the police, have her arrested, press charges, and tell the hospital/social workers/doctors/police that you will NOT agree to releasing her back into your care.  Done.

I'm not saying to bait her into anything or set her up for a meltdown.  I'm just saying that when you are ready to actually be done, stand up for yourself and let it play out.  The end result will be the same. 

[formflier]

Max your wifes behaviour will continue to be and has been dysfunctional all her lif, in and out of relationships, including your marriage. 

Max,

What do you think your wife's longest hospitalization... .or stay in treatment has ever been?

Do you think she have ever had a year in her life where she stuck with a treatment program?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

But my gut is telling me that whatever the exit strategy will require having her or me another place set up to live in advance.  Once I make the break, she will definitely need serious psychological help, probably for months or years. 

You can strike the part about "once you make the break". She needs it badly now. You are trying to do it yourself and aren't up to the job. It may not get that much worse when or if you leave.

If it comes to that, make sure you get out before you need inpatient mental health treatment!

 

[Verbena]

Max, you've gone silent for several days.  When you can, let us know if you are ok. 

[ColdEthyl]

Max, you've gone silent for several days.  When you can, let us know if you are ok. 

I second this I hope we hear from you soon, bud! <3