Money, Manipulation and Emotional Abuse

[daz_bpd]

After setting financial boundaries, she goes to her ex for cash, the conversation as follows:

Me: Are you leaving me for not sendig you money?

H: YES.

H: YOU NEVER MAKE THINGS HAPPEN THATS WHY

H: YOU ALWAYS TALK AND WHINE AND NOTHING HAPPENS. IN GENERAL, YOURE NOT MAN ENOUGH

Me: Ive made things happen for you for 3 years

Me: You still shouting

H: YOU HAVENT MADE NYTHINF HAPPEN BUT ___. SO STOP TALKING ABOUT THE WORSE YEARS OF MY LIFE

Me: Okay, that's enough.

H: CHOOSE.

H: YOU ACT ON GETTING THE MONEY, I GO HOME. OR WHINE AND NOT DO IT, I WILL GET ___ED RIGHT NOW

Me: I do not have money to send you. Its your choice whether to stick around or not

Me: This is blatant manipulation and emotional abuse

Me: I will not tolerate such behaviour

H: BLAH BLAH BLAH

H: CHOOSE

M: You lining up your ex to sleep with you, if I don't send you money? wow

H: A. GET MONEY

H: B. DONT GET MONEY

H: NO, I WANT TO BE ___ED BY A REAL MAN

H: WHO GETS THINGS DONE, INCLUDING ME

H: WHO's SEXY ENOUGH TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN

H: WHO IS STRONG

H: WHO IS REAL

H: ___S ME RIGHT

H: BIGGER THAN ME

H: HOT IN EVERY WAY

H: POSSIBLE

H: THE WEAKER YOU GET THE HOTTER HE IS

H: TO ME

i know I did a poor job of validating her, but at this point Im simply fed up with the this type of behaviour. what she is doing, or threatening to do is very hurtful indeed

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

Um, there was nothing to validate in the exchange that you posted. All I saw was a conversation where she was abusing and manipulating you. At some point, you need to protect yourself. In my opinion, this is an instance where you should have stood up for yourself and ended the conversation. I think some people take the notion of validation too far. Do NOT validate abuse.

After you asked her if she was leaving you for not sending money and she replied yes, the conversation should have ended.

When you got into telling her that you made things happen for 3 years, you were getting into JADEing, which is pointless. You should not have to listen to a woman say those things to you or about you.

   The things that she said to you are friggin' horrible.

[married21years]

so sorry

you need help

[babyducks]

hi daz,

I agree with Vortex and was actually going to say the same thing.   There is nothing in this exchange to validate.  There is a saying that we "don't validate the invalid".     Which means we don't support or encourage false, abusive, or damaging statements.   You did the right thing but not attempting to validate.

I know you have been working for a while to establish the boundary of not sending money, so good job on holding the line on that.   

In the clip you posted for us there is no reply from you after she said the nonsense about getting weaker.   I am hoping you didn't reply 'cause I am rooting for you daz.   You don't need to listen or respond to that type of tirade.  In my opinion your best response there is no response.   Again I agree with Vortex, the conversation should have ended after she said yes she was leaving because you didn't send money.

Validation is not a tool to convince her of your point of view.  She is going to think, and apparently say, what she wants.   You can't change that.   Validation is a tool to help a conversation along when she is willing to listen, which she is clearly not in this snippet.

I am concerned about the juxtaposition of sex and money as she expresses herself.   Excuse me if I am reading this incorrectly.   It appears as if she is using sex as a weapon against you, to blackmail you.   And in some sort way to deal with the highest bidder?   I am sure you know that isn't the behavior of a mature and healthy individual.   I hope you know that it reflects her distorted thinking and not reality. 

I have been following your posts for a while and I know this has been going on for a bit of time.   I think it's a great step forward that you are telling her no when it comes to sending money.   I know you've worked for that.   

What do you think the next step should be?   Is she at all receptive to the idea that her words are abusive?   Will she calm down and accept any responsibility for her behavior?   

'ducks

[waverider]

That is a cut short and leave situation. To stay and not respond is still providing an avenue for her anger. A free shot if you will.

Boundary for not to send money is good, it also needs a back up boundary about not dealing with the extinction burst that comes with it. The blow up as a result needs to stay as her problem to deal with, not for you to validate or be accepting of.

[daz_bpd]

she has been using sex / or sexual related content to manipulate me fro quite some time. Either she seduces me to win me over, or she threatens to go 'f@#k some other guy' if I don't do what she asks. Later on she apologises and tells me she wasn't going to do it 'but was really close to'.

i want to be able to address these issues to her and say to her that such behaviour in the future will result in me withdrawing from the conversation. But I don't want further conflict simply by raising my needs and wants.

she hates it when I ignore her and 'drop the call' if she keeps ranting and being rude and I don't simply stand there and listen to her. She often tells me I am behaving like a woman when I do such things - by disengaging. i don't see how this is a feminine trait to simply walk away from negative people.

the things she wants me to do 'to be a man' to be her man' would not be considered masculine behaviour in greater society, in fact it would be weak, and display lower value.

[formflier]

 

While it may be more satisfying for you to say these things to her... .that you will leave a conversation... .

It is much more effective to CONSISTENTLY leave the conversation when she becomes abusive... .zero tolerance.

Explaining this to her... .is enraging to her... .

Hang in there... .you are going in the right direction... .

FF

[waverider]

Enforcing any boundary, means you are denying her a need. She will not like that and will up the anti to try to get you back to the conflict. Logic, reason and rules are not in her play book. She will say whatever gets a reaction no matter how outrageous. If she says enough, some of it will stick in your mind and trip a trigger somewhere. That is what she is fishing for.

Don't dance in minefields, sooner or later the inevitable is going to happen

[formflier]

 

And... .if you have a fear that she may act on going back to an ex... .she is much more likely to do that... .if enraged.

The more you interact and keep saying no... .or justify saying no... .is likely to enrage her more.

This is kinda like ripping off a bandage... .best to do one yank... .and hush.

Let her sleep it off... .calm down... .go from there.

FF

[babyducks]

i want to be able to address these issues to her and say to her that such behaviour in the future will result in me withdrawing from the conversation... .

I understand that you would like to be able to discuss this and have her validate some or any or your feelings.   unfortunately, right now, that is not likely to happen.   

the only effective tactic you have is to end the conversation and leave the room.    Grey Kitty helped me understand that I needed to walk away from verbal abuse, while I was being told I was being mean, while I was being told I was not considering her feelings, while all sorts of threats were coming my way.   

she will not willingly end the argument.   she is getting something out of.   you need to end the conflict.   if you have to say something, make it very short and very to the point.   I won't participate in this.  5 words no more.  and then don't participate.

formflier is right, CONSISTENTLY leave the conversation when she becomes abusive.  zero tolerance,

[daz_bpd]

Thank you, I will do my best to do exactly that.

[babyducks]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=221022.0

the fourth post down in this thread talks about how to validate.  this is from that post:

The last point may be the most important point - genuine but not taking this as an excuse to be rude or dumping our stuff onto others. We have a lot of conflicts in our relationships and often it is easier to hide, distort and not present a valid view. The fear we are feeling has a big impact on how we act and communicate and being aware and countering that is important. In that spirit Fruzzetti advices:

- validate the valid

- do not invalidate the valid

- do not validate the invalid

- and if really needed invalidate the invalid (if possible use SET)

in the situation you describe I believe you are in the fourth category, you have a need to invalidate the invalid. 

[daz_bpd]

She is threatening to become a prostitute for the night so that she can get money because I won't send any to her. She also wants me to "feel her pain".

These pain cycles are the worst. the pain she feels, and how she projects it onto others, especially me.

[formflier]

She is threatening to become a prostitute for the night so that she can get money because I won't send any to her. She also wants me to "feel her pain".

These pain cycles are the worst. the pain she feels, and how she projects it onto others, especially me.

My hope is that you don't respond to that... .

You seem to be much better at realizing that she is projecting... .(tossing) her feelings at you... .as you have more and more practice at this... .eventually you will let them land on the floor... .or dodge them... .

What you don't want to do is participate in letting her give away her negative feelings... .by taking them.

   

Hang tough... .she realizes that things are changing and is most likely trying to up the ante... .

FF

[daz_bpd]

And now she is in tears and crying uncontrollably after emotionally abusing me, and threatening me for the last hour.

" There is no other way" - she tells me, suggesting once more she will go sell her body.

[daz_bpd]

When i told her I won't send her more money, she begins texting on her phone.The conversation earlier was how she was lining up another guy to get money from him aftr sleeping with him. /i]

My: what you are doing now, what does that say about you?

Her: That I am a b___ and you are going to die

She mean dies from the pain of losing her, and knowing she is with someone else because i didn't 'do everything i can' to help her (again and again and again)

[daz_bpd]

H: YOU ___ING LIAR

H: I WILL HURT YOU SO BAD YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF!

Me: This ends now. No more abuse

Me: I love you and wish you the best

H: THIS ENDS NOW!

H: I WILL ___ THE NIGHT AWAY AND ENJOY OTHER MEN

H: ___ YOU

Me: I do hope all your dreams come true

H: YOU WILL DIE IN PAIN YOU PIECE OF ___

H: LIAR LIAR LIAR

H: YOU MADE A FOOL OUT OF ME!

H: ___ YOU!

H: I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU PUT ME THROUGH

H : THERE WILL NEVER BE A CHANCE

H : I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT! I SWEAR I WILL NEVER EVER LOVE YOU AGAIN!

H: EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS A LIE

H: IS FALSE

H: YOU ARE FALSE

H: ALL OF YOUR PERSON IS FAKE

H: YOU WILL NEVER FORGET THIS NIGHT

H: I WILL REMIND YOU OF IT SOMEDAY

H: AND YOU WILL DIE IN PAIN!

H: DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

H: YOU WILL DIE IN PAIN!

[formflier]

 

Hey... .you seem to be doing better handling this.

Remember... .I'm not a right or wrong guy... .but good... .better... .best.

Look over your responses... .what do you think you can do to move it from better... .to best.

Good work with all this... .it's hard to set boundaries... .it becomes easier with practice.

FF

[waverider]

You are responding well (by not responding)

How does this make you feel?

[daz_bpd]

i simply just continue not responding, and try remind myself not to resort to invalidating sentences, or firing back at her

i buckled and sent her more cash, she needed it to go to the clinic for anxiety, stress and GERD (stomach condition triggered by stress). She also needed money for more bills that she had accrued unnecessarily. But everything she needed money for could have been avoided if she manages her own life better and not make terrible decisions.

I do not want to burden my family and friends with this anymore.

I must stop running away from the inevitable pain that will arise when i break things off from her, because that must be the only solution. I don't see any way this gets better.

she isn't capable of functioning on her own, she may tell me things are all my fault yet without me she is lost and then goes to someone else, and the cycle continues.

Im angry at myself for letting this go on for as long as it has. I am weak and pathetic just like she says, except she says this to me to get what she wants, when really this should be my cue to do what is right for me this whole time.

And why I have stuck around for so long? The chemistry we have when together, its more powerful than any other woman I have been with. No one else comes close. I have kissed and slept with enough other woman... .and just kissing her, i would trade that over sex, and when we together, its like nothing else exists, its that intense... .and that is what clouds my judgement - im hanging onto something that I am putting value over everything else. But being with her 'makes it worth it', but it isn't worth it at the same time.

I don't know what an acceptable level of intensity is. The psychologist told me I would not experience such emotions with a 'normal' person - that the intensity / passion / emotional addiction only happens with such individuals? (i think i will start a new topic / thread on this)

[an0ught]

Hi daz_BPD,

she isn't capable of functioning on her own, she may tell me things are all my fault yet without me she is lost and then goes to someone else, and the cycle continues.

She choose in the past to seek a rescuer as it was more convenient than helping herself. You can't fix her. You can only refuse to play this role. I would not underestimate a pwBPD finding a way to help themselves - it may not be the healthiest way and likely the quick and convenient one - but it will fix the pain.

Your first responsibility is towards yourself and it is ok not to rescue a serial drama seeking damsel in distress. A relationship where your financial needs are not respected is simply not sustainable for you. You know you have little choice but to stick to your limits. She can make her choices.

And it is not like if you would ignore putting a boundary here that all would be fine. Lack of respectful behavior ranging to abuse is a theme that cuts across all of your partners behavior. It needs to be reigned in for a relationship to work and only she can choose to reign it in. Rethinking abusive behavior often only happens when a boundary is blocking the effectiveness of abuse.

I understand you fear she will be gone and that is a real possibility  . You can validate anger, feeling unfairness, not being understood, abandoned etc. but in the end it all depends on how important her fix is for her and how afraid she is of the consequences of her mess-ups (all to be validated).

You are at a very, very difficult point 

[babyducks]

Rethinking abusive behavior often only happens when a boundary is blocking the effectiveness of abuse.

What an0ught said.