Somatic symptom disorder

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, and have gotten advice previouslyy on how to recover and move on from an affair that my BPD wife had.

Got another dilemma. My wife is constantly sick  mainly with stomach cramps, nausea, headaches, diarrhea, etc, etc.

The crazy thing is, she is never sick when she has to meet her friends for exercising or going out for lunch and dinner with them - not a single complaint about her illness, but the minute she is alone with with me, or I try to be intimate with her, she gets "sick".

I understand that ssd is common amongst BPD, and she has all the symptoms listed by dsm5.

Anyone else experience this with their BPD spouse, and how do you handle the situation. My situation always ends into a heated argument when I accuse her off not getting sick for her friends and having lots of quality heathy time for them but not for me.

She claims she has an auto immune disorder and some allergist diagnosed her with celiac disease, but I am doubtful that she has that, but rather ssd.

Just some background - Her dad is NPD, and suffers from Munchausen Syndrome, and has had more surgeries over the years than you can count. Her mother is also BPD, and a hypercondriac - also always sick with different ailments. All three of them, are in medically related jobs.


Your thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated... .

[downintx]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, and have gotten advice previouslyy on how to recover and move on from an affair that my BPD wife had.

Got another dilemma. My wife is constantly sick  mainly with stomach cramps, nausea, headaches, diarrhea, etc, etc.

The crazy thing is, she is never sick when she has to meet her friends for exercising or going out for lunch and dinner with them - not a single complaint about her illness, but the minute she is alone with with me, or I try to be intimate with her, she gets "sick".

I understand that ssd is common amongst BPD, and she has all the symptoms listed by dsm5.

Anyone else experience this with their BPD spouse, and how do you handle the situation. My situation always ends into a heated argument when I accuse her off not getting sick for her friends and having lots of quality heathy time for them but not for me.

She claims she has an auto immune disorder and some allergist diagnosed her with celiac disease, but I am doubtful that she has that, but rather ssd.

Just some background - Her dad is NPD, and suffers from Munchausen Syndrome, and has had more surgeries over the years than you can count. Her mother is also BPD, and a hypercondriac - also always sick with different ailments. All three of them, are in medically related jobs.


Your thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Think for a minute about what your wife may be "getting" out of this type of interaction.

Also think for a while about what you are getting from this.

I'm glad you are here at bpdfamily.  We'll help educate you... .help you understand the "order to the disorder"... .and the various nuances that are particular to your r/s (relationship).

I'll check back in with some more thoughts later today.  For now... .spend time thinking about and then posting about your answers to my questions.

FF

[downintx]

Her main take from this reaction, I would say, is getting out of being intimate and getting out of sex with me. That is when she seems to complain the most about being sick.

Sex, as with most BPD spouses, was great in the beginning, but slowly got worse over the years.

This is somewhat embarrassing, but i think relevant - In the early years and as sex got progressively less, I would always ask her for bj on our anniversary.

This eventually stopped a few years into our marriage, she would put on this drama show of it making her gag, and pretend to throw up.

After caught her having an affair several months ago, with a guy who was old enough to have been her father,   she told me they would have oral sex, I would then say to her, if you could do it to him, you can do it to me.

Our Anniversary is coming up soon, and I mentioned to her a few days ago, with all that has gone on, with the discovery of two affairs etc, and us reconciling, it would be nice if I could get a bj on our anniversary night, as it had been years since I had got one. I was not that blunt, but said it very tactfully and at the right moment.

For the most part she has been "healthy" the last few weeks, but with our anniversary just days away, I believe she is putting on this nausea drama show to get out of it - the oral sex thing... .

[enlighten me]

My ex wife had all sorts of ailments. At first I believed her. Then I thought it was a ploy. I now think something else may be at play.

These ailments I believe are stress related. The list of ailments others report her from IBS to fibromyalgia can all be explained by elevated cortisol. This is a stress hormone. It can give thyroid symptoms, anaemia, migranes and a myriad of other complaints.

My ex wifes were always when she was out of her comfort zone or had done something like run up her credit card. Holidays were always a nightmare as she spent most of it in bed ill.

[Hmcbart]

I understand completely how you feel. Except the BJ part, I've never been able to get my wife to do it. I'm not naive enough to think that she's never done it, even before we met but just not for me... .20 years now.

As far as illness, you are living my life and I wish you didn't have to. I have posted here before how I believe I have a superpower. I can cause people to instantly become nauseated or have a headache. All I have to do is bring up the idea of sex or being intimate alone with me. I don't even have to be in the same state and it works.

Sadly this power only works on her and as far as superpowers go, it's pretty lame.

My wife also doesn't get sick when she has to do something with her friends.

I've posted before about how MC last year she agreed to a schedule of sex. The MC agreed with me that once a year was not enough. For 4 months it was supposed to happen every other Friday but happened 4 times with those months and it was like pulling teeth each time. She was literally incapable of following through on this. Each Friday always brought and illness or some other reason why she couldn't. Even if she had been doing something all day with friends.

I do t know about any affairs but if they have or do happen, I suspect nothing will be off limits sexually to her. 20 years ago there were more things they were taboo. Now it seems to be fair game from what things on tv look like. I hope it doesn't or hasn't happened but I understand I can only do so much.

We are back in MC but have had sex once this year, not expecting much more if any this year. So my opinion and after twenty years I think I can consider it an expert opinion (at least where my wife is concerned) it is a SSD but with anything the pain, headache, nausea, etc. is real and not fake. Almost like a ghost limb syndrome, the pain is there even in the absence of the stimuli.

I would love to say there is a way around it but for me there hasn't been. She found support from her friends who claim that sex twice a month is too often. This only helped her feel better about it. That's when she convinced me that I was the one with the problem so I went to T to get help for being a sex addict. Turns out I'm not an addict just sex starved.

**Graphic warning**

So far my only help to deal with it is taking care of it myself. It's been so many years now that I have difficulty reaching climax with her. The 4 times last year and once this year, I've only reached the finish line 1 time. I do everything I can to make sure she get fullfilled, no pun intended. This too has been a topic of contention because I have told her that I faked it on occasion. *****Major invalidation alert! Do not do this ever!****** trust me on this.

[an0ught]

Hi downintx,

sounds like there is a long established pattern of emotions being projected on to somatic symptoms in the family. That is going to be hard to break.

It is:

- a learned habit

- a sign of weakness, lack of boundaries on her side. Instead of saying what she wants or does not want she hides in medical symptoms

- a call for attention

What can you do:

- validate her pain. Her problem. Her need to say no (<- acknowledging weakens the no, fighting no strengthens it). Her fear to say yes. Her being uncomfortable. Her being insecure... .

- don't spend energy on her symptoms unless you feel they are real.

A bit a carrot and stick approach - attention to the causes and no attention to her projections.

This is a lifelong pattern which in part is still is fed by parents behavior. It will be hard to break (maybe a good T after some time might manage) but you can chip away and weaken it.

[Surg_Bear]

I am in the same boat as you.

Sex once a year.

I used to think that my wife's somatic disorder was a ploy to get out of sex... .

Until she was hospitalized for 10 days with a severe hemorrhagic Crohn's colitis.  This was how her Crohn's disease was diagnosed.

I felt horrible, and still do, since I am a surgeon and an "expert" in bowel / colon surgery.  I sat and watched my wife get sicker and sicker and all I could think was that it was in her head, until I could not deny that familiar smell of bloody diarrhea.  It wasn't at the hospital, it was in my own home.

Now, her GI symptoms are always a "back off" signal for me.  We can't talk about sex, because it is such a trigger for her (no matter how hard, or gently, I've tried to bring this up), so... .her GI symptoms are her way of telling me no sex, no discussion, no way.  I think partly because she holds it against me- how could I stand by and watch her get sicker and sicker, yet would never be so oblivious with one of my own patients? and because it is now a convenient, and undeniable reality.  If she says she has abdominal pain, or nausea, I have to accept that it is due to the Crohn's disease.

I am sorry that another man has to endure this kind of abuse- sexual neglect and withholding of physical intimacy in a marriage is really a terrible prison to be in- maybe the worst.  Domestic violence, infidelity, and countless other behaviors on the BPD spectrum might be worse "crimes" to justify divorce.  Sexual withholding / neglect is somehow not one of them- but it hurts just as badly.

I admire your courage to come on here and tell your story. I admire your virtue for staying in a sexless marriage, when mainstream society would encourage us to just seek fulfillment of these needs outside the relationship- as if it were that easy.  Maybe we think it is wrong, or fear the consequences of being found out, either way- the middle road is that of virtue and honor.

I have just recently arrived on this forum myself, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about ways of coping with this terrible situation.  I do not have words of wisdom to share, to make this feel anything more than a horrible, painful, private HELL.  I don't know if I am staying, or a minute away from saying the final goodbye.  I am not the guy to ask for help in this.

I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone.  There are many men - good and honorable husbands - who stand in the very same shoes as you.  I am one of them.

Surg_Bear





 

[downintx]

Thanks for everyone's responses. It's not easy living with someone who is always sick. It is hard to tell the difference from when they are really sick to bring an attention seeking drama queen.

An0ught, she has definitely learned / inherited her behavior from her parents. Her dad has had so many surgeries from self diagnosing himself, and "intimidating" other co-worker doctors with his npd/sociopath ways to perform surgery on him without delay - his usual tactic is to say - I can't wait until next week, it will be worse or at a point of no return, you need to do it like yesterday. He is pretty much bed ridden today, all of which is pretty much self inflicted.

I always tell my wife that he did it to himself. She started with a couple of surgeries, but thankfully after me constantly telling her that her dad did all that to himself, hopefully she is able to see that, and is not so keen to have surgery anymore in such a hurry.

Her mother is no better, and only wants to talk about how sick she is, and that she has this wrong and that wrong, it's no wonder their daughter is so messed up.

I am so thankful my kids have me, as I am always positive and encouraging when they have a minor ache here and there, and only take them to the doc when necessary. I am very attentitive to making sure they are healthy, and stay healthy without adding any unnecessary drama.

I see what you say about validating her pain, it is just hard to do that when you know most times she is just being a drama queen. By validating, you mean, I should say, I understand you are feeling nauseated, but you were feeling nauseated earlier, and spent they day out having fun shopping, food and alcohol with your friends, so if you can do that with them while you are nauseas, how about you spend some quality time with me and give me some attention (wish i could add - while you are nauseated ).

It's hard sometimes figuring out when she is really sick or just being a drama queen. Also a lot of the SSD symptoms, unlike stomach and head aches, are real, like diareah. But then again, I guess it is her mental state that causes that... .

It is crazy  and tiring to have to deal with this everyday. It sure wreaks havoc on a family... .Sad, but nevertheless a true way of life for a lot of us... .

[formflier]

I felt horrible, and still do, since I am a surgeon and an "expert" in bowel / colon surgery.  I sat and watched my wife get sicker and sicker and all I could think was that it was in her head, until I could not deny that familiar smell of bloody diarrhea.  It wasn't at the hospital, it was in my own home.



 

Surg,

Don't beat yourself up... .this is most likely a good example of why professionals don't treat their family.

Thanks to you too for coming here and sharing your story.  It does get better... .I promise... .your posts remind me... .of me... .over a year ago. 


It will get better.

FF

[an0ught]

Hi downintx,

I see what you say about validating her pain, it is just hard to do that when you know most times she is just being a drama queen. By validating, you mean, I should say, I understand you are feeling nauseated, but you were feeling nauseated earlier, and spent they day out having fun shopping, food and alcohol with your friends, so if you can do that with them while you are nauseas, how about you spend some quality time with me and give me some attention (wish i could add - while you are nauseated ).

Check out the workshops on validation. It is not complicated but there are traps and it is important to get it right. "I understand" is not a good thing to say as it is not about her but about you. It may not even be true you just think you understand. A good exercise in validation is to build sentences that don't contain "I". Now using the word "but" and you are likely to be on the invalidation track. Simply focus on her reality - she is nauseated and is feeling weak. It sucks and she is not happy about feeling miserable. That is it. Not much more. There is a pattern where additional facts may be brought in "SET" but it is a bit tricky to push the last night story without sounding judgmental. No doubt last night played a major role in her feeling miserable. But you tell her and she ramps emotionally up and becomes belligerent. When you validate just her emotions she can calm down a little, feel less miserable and become more rationale. Maybe she is even seeing her role in that state.

It's hard sometimes figuring out when she is really sick or just being a drama queen. Also a lot of the SSD symptoms, unlike stomach and head aches, are real, like diareah. But then again, I guess it is her mental state that causes that... .

It is really hard, virtually impossible for us to know. Her health is really her problem and you can't carry that responsibility. You are getting confusing signals but so is she. Her ability to sense her body and mind are impaired. Boundaries are important here - not getting pushed into a role of a decision maker, not explaining symptoms away. Equally she should be careful not to make rash decisions - impulsivity can backfire when it comes to irreversible steps. Validation can help here too as it helps her to clarify her thinking, get a better understanding of the consequences and sooth the underlying driving emotion. Conversely invalidate and argue against the life saving nose straightening job and the fronts will harden.

[formflier]

It is crazy  and tiring to have to deal with this everyday. It sure wreaks havoc on a family... .Sad, but nevertheless a true way of life for a lot of us... .

One of the general mindsets that you can hopefully drive towards... .is that you and your family let her deal with it everyday... .and the rest of the family moves on.  

It's tough to describe... .because you aren't ignoring it... .but you also don't take on their pain and issues as your own.  :)on't ever apologize for living your life... .even though they are hurting.

It's a spectrum... .as apposed to a deal with it/ignore it... .on off switch.

So... .we don't want to be mind readers... .we'll never know for sure.  We also don't want to ignore what they are thinking... .or possibly "getting" from acting this way.  Even though they are getting it in a dysfunctional way.  It is working for them... .and it is obvious it is not working for you.

downintx,

Where do you think you fall out on the caregiver spectrum?  :)o you like to "fix things"... .care for people?  I used to describe myself as a fixer... .that likes to care for people.  Reality:  I rescued my wife many times when I shouldn't have.  Most likely it was a dysfunctional way of her "proving" to herself that I cared.  

It also got me to be upset... .act weird... .and most likely she was thinking that she "was not as bad" as me... .because I was now acting out.

That is the kind of analysis that I think you can/should be doing.  Very different that mind reading... .(such as) "He hates me because... ."

Anyway... .to say that your wife uses this to "get out" of sex... .is probably the "non" way of thinking about it... .most likely the real answer is a bit more complex.

Such asjust a guess) She is uncomfortable with intimate emotions, sex represents that, sickness allows her to avoid that... .without confessing or dealing with uncomfortable emotions.

It "works" for her... .because she takes her emotional issues and "tosses" them on you.  Right now... .you get upset... .or show a "reaction" and she gets to avoid the emotion, avoid the sex, and still gets to "see" that you care about her.

Again... .this is just a guess... .but a good starting point for you to think about your interactions and what you wife seems to care about... .

FF

[formflier]

 

Here comes a story from my family tree... .hopefully it will help.

A great grandma to me was a widow and live with my grandparents for a long time (while my Dad was growing up). 

If the family made plans to go somewhere... .guess who would wake up "sick" and have drama... .yep... .great grandma.

Yet... .if they "secretly" made plans... .and let great grandma know she needed to get in the car for a trip in 30 minutes... .the trips were generally uneventful.

This is how my Dad lived his life growing up... ."working around" great grandma... .but... .it worked.  They figured it out... .

Any chance that this kind of approach makes things better in the r/s that you guys have.  So... .planning on an intimate evening a week away... .leaves them mulling it over for a week... .stewing on it. 

Having flowers, babysitter and whatever else is needed show up on an evening you know is clear... .might be worth a try.

Thoughts?

FF

[Surg_Bear]

It is crazy  and tiring to have to deal with this everyday. It sure wreaks havoc on a family... .Sad, but nevertheless a true way of life for a lot of us... .

Anyway... .to say that your wife uses this to "get out" of sex... .is probably the "non" way of thinking about it... .most likely the real answer is a bit more complex.

Such asjust a guess) She is uncomfortable with intimate emotions, sex represents that, sickness allows her to avoid that... .without confessing or dealing with uncomfortable emotions.

It "works" for her... .because she takes her emotional issues and "tosses" them on you.  Right now... .you get upset... .or show a "reaction" and she gets to avoid the emotion, avoid the sex, and still gets to "see" that you care about her.

Again... .this is just a guess... .but a good starting point for you to think about your interactions and what you wife seems to care about... .

FF

I really have to chime in 100% support on this statement.

It feels to me like she is withholding, using her Crohn's to get out of jail free, or worse, using sex as a carrot to manipulate me into behaving a certain way, etc.  For a long time (20 yrs) I believed that this was the truth, because that is how it was for me standing there in my boxer shorts in front of her feeling so absolutely rejected by her- AGAIN.

During the only discussion about sex we ever had that did not end in a no-holds barred, BPD rage 60 seconds after the word sex was uttered, my wife told me something about her experience on the other side of the wall. When I am dripping mad with resentment, frustration and anger about yet another night without sex, I try to calm myself down by remembering what she shared.

Her avoidance of sex has nothing to do with me at all.  She has never consciously thought, "that ass didn't come home when he said he would- he came home the NEXT DAY, as punishment, he's not going to get sex for a month."

Sex is so awful- a forced remembrance of her childhood sexual trauma, extreme body shame, anxiety, etc- that anything that can be used to escape facing this, is believed 100%, and used to shut down, close off, and detach from the hurt associated with sex.  She will stop at nothing to try and convince herself that "sex doesn't exist." 

Protecting herself is the number 1 priority.  Detaching, dissociating, raging, shaming- everything she does, she does to protect herself from herself.  It has very little to do with me- except that I am the target onto which she can offload all of this crap.

When I feeling particularly sorry for myself about my sex life, I have to keep in mind that my sex life is about 1,000 times worse for my wife.  It is not a weapon she uses against me, it is a trigger - and even that produces a highly charged, extremely intense emotional reaction that she does not have the inner strength to experience, process, and accept.  Like all her other triggers (ex- her extreme snake phobia) she has to run for her life and escape from sex, otherwise be totally engulfed, and annihilated.

It is so much worse for her than me, and I feel like it is killing me.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is never so bad that it can't be worse. 

Surg_Bear

[Hmcbart]

I guess what I'm saying is that it is never so bad that it can't be worse. 

Surg_Bear

I never say it can't get any worse. Those words are the harbingers of something worse coming. I always say, "what's next?" I can deal with the next thing but I can't deal with something getting worse each time. It would drive me into the ground.


I know exactly how you feel on this topic. And my wife also has the rear of snakes. Why can't they have a fear of public speaking, at least that one can be escaped more easily. Afraid of public speaking, no big deal, don't do it. Afraid of sex? WTH, now I half to be involved.

I have asked, before learning what I know now, if you won't have sex with me then why would you be upset if I get it elsewhere?

It didn't go over very well but then again the punish for saying that is the same as the punishment for not telling her before I bought a new lawnmower, and the same as going to a strip club, and the same as asking her to clean the upstairs bathroom. The punishment never fits the crime, for me or the kids. Your guilty of the most horrible crime imaginable and punished accordingly. Stealing a piece of bubblegum is the same as murder in her world.

Sorry, that's a long way of saying she gets mad at me a lot and the punishment is always the same.

[Notwendy]

I have to thank you guys for being honest about your sex lives. I am very sorry you are having to deal with this.

For many years, I was raged at for not satisfying my H sexually. His idea of "never" having sex was if a few days to a week went by.

We could have great sex, but he doesn't remember it.

BJ's were a huge point of contention. I slowed down on this when I was pregnant and had nausea. I assumed that he could see that if his wife was puking it probably was not a good idea. I also assumed he would know that if things were good before, then they would also be good later, but I had no idea that he didn't see this. To him it was a painful rejection and a fear that he'd never have one again. I had no idea this was how he felt. He didn't share his feelings with me so I had no clue what he was thinking. I would have surely tried to clear this up between us if I knew. All I knew was that he became angry at me and I didn't understand why.

I had no idea of what was to become of that, the raging, the "we never" the being painted black and then punished with ST and raging.

I was terrified. He convinced me that all the other women did this all the time, and I wasn't normal. I felt that I was going crazy. He didn't remember if we did it or not, so I kept a calendar. Yes, you heard me right. I had a BJ calendar so I could remember when he didn't. So according to the calendar, it was once or twice a week. According to him, it was "never".

We are doing better now, and marital T has helped, but if I wasn't traumatized over this before this happened, I probably am now. I think for a woman, something like a BJ needs to be given from the heart, not under the fear of being raged at. He still gets them, because it is important to him, and my marriage is important to me,  but it isn't the same for me as it is now emotionally associated with the rages and there is a sadness for me that goes along with being intimate.

Somehow I feel redeemed that I was a not the wife I was accused of being, and also kind of sad for having gone through that.

[Hmcbart]

Wendy, I can understand your apprehension and the way it must feel after being raged at for something you were actually doing for your husband. I have gotten upset with my wife many times for her saying no to me. Not about the BJ, because that is something she's never done for me, but just sex in general.

Last year was when it was the worst because of her agreeing to a schedule for sex at the MC. Each time it didn't happen I wound get upset. It was supposed to happen every other Friday and never once did she actually follow through on what she agreed to.

Now, the new reason for not wanting to have sex is because of my anger last year. She felt that she was giving a 110% effort to follow her agreement and I just got mad at her for it. I do accept my part in this and have apologized more than I probably should have.

It was never really the fact that she would say no or have an excuse not to that bothered me. It was how she would say no, or even how she would say yes. I am always made to feel guilty for asking. Belittled and criticized for even asking in most cases. Even a couple of times when she said yes, it was said in a way to make me feel that she was doing me a big favor.

The last time she said yes, it was followed by the statement, but if I have to say no because I'm not comfortable with it, are you going to be ok with that. It was that point I told her never mind and that I didn't want to have sex that weekend. I have been told yes so many times only to have her come up with a reason not to that I don't trust her any longer.

Sadly, I once told her that I had a better chance of meeting a stranger at a bar and having sex than I did with my own wife. I told her that with a stranger there is a 50:50 chance but with her there's a 99.9% chance that she will say no. This was very mean and wrong but after so many years of my needs being neglect I didn't really care.

As it is now, I don't get up set about sex any more because I do not ask for it or really even try anymore. It's not important to her so it shouldn't be important to me. It's sad but that's how it has to be for now. I just can't open myself up to her in that way anymore. The let down is too painful.

[formflier]

  It has very little to do with me- except that I am the target onto which she can offload all of this crap.

What does that look like when she "offloads"... .?


What would happen if she "offloaded"... .but you didn't accept the load?

FF

[Notwendy]

Although pw BPD cause their partners pain, I think at the moments that they do, they see themselves as victims. One eye opener was listening to my mother talk about my father. To me, it looked like he was her victim, but she really believed that she was his.

It is hard to tell what is going on with their sexuality. I know that in my case, it took maybe one time of being nauseated while pregnant and not in the mood for my H to feel completely rejected and go into "never" mode. Then to me, his rage is out of the blue and he's insisting on me doing something for him that I used to do by choice. However, I could not stand up to his rages and so, I gave up that choice and lost interest- and my lack of interest reinforced his feelings of rejection. See the threads on how they sabotage their wishes.

Somewhere along the way, probably in a similar situation to mine- that you had absolutely no clue about, your wives felt rejected. You guys were maybe tired, or had a cold, or were preoccupied with work. Doesn't matter what as it was rejection to them. Then they reacted, but if you got angry, they had no idea why. It was them who was rejected and now you are angry. Victim mode is their default.

One of the statements on the laundry list of ACOA was " we marry people who can not be here for us, so we can play out our sick abandonment needs" So, for SurgBear, your call schedule might be as reasonable a reason to be absent as my nausea of pregnancy was a reasonable explanation for not being as accommodating as I was. However, once that triggered their rejection/abandonment/ low self esteem thoughts, it didn't matter if the explanation has nothing to do with them.

I don't know how to stop this, I don't think we can, but it helps to not take it personally. Clearly I was not the wife my H accused me of, although it was devastating at the time. I can now see where it was not about me.  

[downintx]

my BPD wife has always been cold, especially with regard to sex - she always says she has no interest, and between her SSD, and me having to beg and trade her for any type of intimacy, I also got to a point that that I would give her the silent treatment - kind of if you don't have time for me, I don't have time for you. That was until I found out that she was having an affair, well two affairs - the later one being an emotional affair, and earlier one a sexual affair.

The thing that bothered me the most at the time of the affairs, which where unknown to me at the time, and when she was meeting with the affair partner/s, she was as cold as ice to me, and I could not even touch her the night or the morning she would leave to meet with him. She would often tell me that she was sick, which was obviously a lie, and then sneak off to go meet the AP, and/or sleep with him.

So now when she wants to get out of sex, and says she is sick, to me it is a major trigger, and my thoughts are - you weren't sick when you running off to meet with one of your former lovers. So for me it is hard for me to separate the SSD, with the lies, or if she is honestly not feeling well.

I have to say though, she has been really trying hard to make up for what she did wrong as far as being truthful and saying where she is, and what she is doing. Even our sex life has improved a lot from where it was in the past, but as with all survivors of infidelity, it is a huge mountain to climb the first couple of years, and it is the constant triggers and shallow remorse, that keep on bringing me here for some comfort, support and feedback.

With all that has gone on, and goes on, I still love my wife, and it is nice to come to a board were you can get positive and encouraging support, than going to boards that are not familiar with BPD, and suggest you throw her out on the curb.

As a few moderators have mentioned on here - if we want to see less of the same, change has to come from the non and the way we approach it with the validation etc. This approach is very draining and takes a lot of practice to get used to, but in some situations, and it looks like many of the responses, we are all in the same boat, and looks like the best option for now.

I think venting and hearing different peoples responses and how many people can relate to what I/We are going through helps a lot.

Thanks again for the input and responses, it certainly helps.

[formflier]

 if we want to see less of the same, change has to come from the non and the way we approach it with the validation etc. This approach is very draining and takes a lot of practice to get used to, but in some situations, and it looks like many of the responses, we are all in the same boat, and looks like the best option for now.

Validation does take lots of practice and energy.  Right now... .I've got getting better at validation as priority 1.  It still seems clumsy to me.

I validated her frustration today... .and helped solve her problem... .she couldn't find a working box cutter... .she was blaming me for the mess her tool box was in.

I didn't mention blame... .validated... .solved... . and she was on top of world good mood for a while.

I also wanted to follow up on Nowendy's comment about we probably won't know what we did that turned them "victim"... .or "rejected".  

That used to bug me... .because I'm a fixer... .I like to "understand"... . 

I'm now trying to thing about radical acceptance (RA) as the "easy" button at Staples... . Push it... .and move on.

Save the energy for something else... .

FF

[Surg_Bear]

  It has very little to do with me- except that I am the target onto which she can offload all of this crap.

What does that look like when she "offloads"... .?


What would happen if she "offloaded"... .but you didn't accept the load?

FF

The thing is, when I don't accept her projections, and refuse to agree that this or that applies to me... .  I try to validate the feelings that have lead to the need for the offloading. What happens next is very predictable, she pretends to own whatever that may have been, and then cycles into this spiral of stating that this is the only characteristic she has (black or white thinking and this proof again of her being all black)- that she is unloveable, and hates herself, and hates me for loving her, and she is worthless and this is what her therapist said about her too, and she is trapped in this terrible role of being the monster, can't do anything right, every body hates her and she should just be dead- or better yet, she should never have existed.

I am powerless to say anything to stop that spiral using anything positive- using my love as proof that she isn't worthless or better off dead, just makes her guilt and shame all the worse.

I don't know, but I've found that I cannot intervene in any positive way when she spirals into her dramatic showing of self-hatred, so I try to let it run its course.  I usually get blamed for letting her feel that way, when it is all said and done, and she tries to say that because I didn't stop her from doing this, I am guilty of believing it too.  Since I didn't rescue her from it, I must have been responsible for creating it. I never allow her to make me responsible for her self hatred, and it usually turns into a frightening rage, or, more often now, a silent treatment.

It's clear that I am not doing something right because this happens so frequently, lately, that it has become tedious and another thing that makes me think that if this is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life, I'm not sure I can do it. 

I just don't know what I'm going to do with my love for her, if I keep accumulating these "if this continues for the rest of my life" events- the "Best it's ever going to get" realizations. 

I feel like I'm waiting for that one horrible event that crosses this imaginary red line in my mind, where finally, I can allow myself to say- No more.  I cannot stay in this toxic relationship one moment longer, and believe that the line crosser justifies divorce.  Even the line crosser- whatever that might be- I don't think, will be enough to cancel out my love for her.  I will have to decide to leave despite my love- especially if the line crosser is her leaving me and filing for divorce (which she did once already- 1999 to 2004).

Surg_Bear

 

[married21years]

a good response to projection is this inst about me   

[Hmcbart]

It's clear that I am not doing something right because this happens so frequently, lately, that it has become tedious and another thing that makes me think that if this is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life, I'm not sure I can do it. 

Surg_Bear

I have noticed this in my wife as well. Things have gotten worse and lasted for longer periods of time. I'm wondering if these are extinction bursts and she is trying desperately to make me go back to the way I was before. I have changed a lot, not enough, but a lot. I don't accept all the blame for her feelings anymore. I finally learned after 20 years that I cannot go toe to toe with her in an argument so I walk away more often.

I am telling her no a lot more. This is a big one. For so long I never said no to anything she asked of me. Now I do and I think it has a lot to do with the current state of affairs. I'm not sure about this one but she is pre-menopause. I don't know if this changes the severity of PDs or not. In the past, the week before her cycle started was always a week from he11. I could tell by her tone and the way she treated me when it was happening. The funny thing is she accused me of tracking her cycle because I could tell her when she started and when it was complete. 20 years will do that to you I guess.

[formflier]

I finally learned after 20 years that I cannot go toe to toe with her in an argument so I walk away more often.

Hmcbart,

I remember/know you are some sort of training guy... .remember that I am "good... .better... .best" guy when describing responses... .attitudes... .ways of dealing with BPD.

Well... .I think that what you have put up there is clearly... .CLEARLY... .better than the way it was before.

My hope for your "training" here at bpdfamily is that through lessons... .experience... .posting... .learning the "order to the disorder"... .that you will come to the point where you understand that you "shouldn't" go toe to toe with your wife.

That is it not emotionally healthy for you or your r/s... .

How big of a nuance of difference does "can't" and "shouldn't" strike you as?

FF

[formflier]

Surg... .good post... .couple questions

The thing is, when I don't accept her projections, and refuse to agree that this or that applies to me... . 

Do you act as if you don't accept this?  Do you act as though you will participate in this kind of thing (deliberately vague... .)

If I was a fly on the wall... .watching you and your wife discuss this... .but I couldn't hear the words... .would I assume you agree with your wife... .?  Would I assume that you believe the subject is one that you and your wife should be discussing?

Hmmm... .(I've got some assumptions here... .so... .I'm staying open in my questions to see where this goes!  I wouldn't want to be BPDish... .and assume too much!     )

 

I am powerless to say anything to stop that spiral using anything positive-

You are correct... .  And... .this is maddening... .frustrating... .like watching a loved one in a car crash... .but all you can do is say... .noo

using my love as proof that she isn't worthless or better off dead, just makes her guilt and shame all the worse.

Huge point... .huge question.  Why?  What principle that we teach at bpdfamily are you "doing" to her... .that we recommend avoid... .almost at all costs.

It's clear that I am not doing something right because this happens so frequently, 

Is this a good analysis?  Should you base the "rightness" or "wrongness" of your actions... .on the actions of others?

I just don't know what I'm going to do with my love for her, 

Is there a way you can enjoy it... .by yourself?  I wrote a letter to my oldest daughter... .as part of a church thing... .as I was drafting that letter... .I drafted some other letters and thoughts... .not likely I will ever share them... .but they were for me.  They felt good to say.