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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Aparicioo

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« on: June 06, 2015, 12:06:05 AM »

My divorce was finalized today and it brought me to my knees. I asked her before I signed if in her heart she truly wanted this and she replied 'this is what I want' so matter-of-fact, but she was crying and too emotional to get on the phone for a couple of minutes according to the lawyer after mediation. I've read nearly ten books on BPD and spent countless hours on the internet reading articles. I understand the symptoms, the causality of the disorder, etc. No matter how much I think I know, I end up devastated time and time again.

What I really mean here is I don't understand it emotionally. How can two people who love each other deeply, love their child even more with an entire life we built together, fail? We travelled the world together and (I thought) overcame so much hardship. For over four years she would tell me how screwed up she thought she was and insecure and jealous, and I couldn't believe the pushback I would get for telling her how much I loved her and that she was my dream girl. She didn't believe me. If I was loving toward her she would push me away and accuse me of having ulterior motives or it being disingenuous. If I stayed away then I was 'cheating' or doing something behind her back.

The straw that broke the camel's back was a girl I slept with while the divorce was on the table last year, and we were a couple of states apart. She was constantly accusing me of talking to her or wanting to go back to her. Anyway, she lied to her husband to cover up her other affairs (diagnosed BPD according to her husband) and said the person she was talking to was still me. Impossible! I never maintained contact with her and even after figuring this out with him, we couldn't prove it because she did something with her old phone and the iPad that was receiving copies of her texts

Wife wouldn't believe me, kicked me out, and filed for divorce again. I spent so many hours of my life talking to that guy trying to figure out how to prove to my wife that I never did anything behind her back, and nothing. She sends me an email of an audio clip with her screwing some other guy and him coming inside her. I've never been in so much pain in my life. I tied a belt around my neck and tried to use the door but after a few seconds the belt ripped through. Can't even get that right... .

I have no idea what to do. All I can think about it is if I could somehow prove to her that I was loyal, but everything's ruined now. I love this woman with all my heart. Don't care if she has BPD or not. If she does have it, I'm confident DBT is a solution based on the stories I read; If not then surely there's another way. There's always a way.

I just feel so helpless now that everything is damaged beyond repair. All over something that never happened. I understand her being hurt and wanting to get back at me, but I know I didn't deserve what she did. I'm afraid to share any feelings with her because that always results in a bad reaction. It's like at this point I can't handle one more insult from her. I lost everything. Career, love of my life, and my son. For what? It's like I married one woman, and she transformed into this hateful person who thought I couldn't do anything right.

I know I did a lot of things wrong and probably don't deserve her anyway. What I did not do was cheat or talk to any women behind her back. If anything, she's crazy for thinking I would even consider choosing another woman over her or jeopardizing our relationship by talking to people! My attorney is convinced it was about the money and always was. No amount of money, or anything for that matter, would be worth more to me than her and our son. Whatever. No 'answer' or 'solution' makes any sense to me emotionally. Complete idiot about my emotions... .

Post ended up being way too long. TLDR; why can't I accept that I'm simply not worth it or lovable to this woman?
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Mister Brightside
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2015, 01:01:55 AM »

You can't understand it (accept it), because BPD is such an alien form of thinking, that it's like trying to understand a language from another planet. It makes zero sense. Both you and I have studied the disorder up and down, and while we understand it intellectually, we can't internalize it emotionally because we are nothing like that--less than 5% of the population is.

Sometimes I try to tell myself that no contact allows me to deal with BPD 0% of the time, while she is stuck with herself every waking hour for the rest of her life. As evil as some BPD/NPDs are, I wouldn't wish the disorder on anybody. The feelings of emptiness and never being able to feel whole sounds like hell. I feel that too as a codependent, but my chances of healing are much greater.

As for your claim of "probably don't deserve her anyway," that isn't true, my friend. Her gaslighting and projection are making you feel that way. Her crazy manipulations are making your head spin. Eventually, getting into a healthy romantic relationship will seem like night and day. Reciprocation will be the norm. Being accused of things you haven't done will be rare if not non-existent. You won't feel like you're going insane, doubting your words and actions. You will be able to be yourself without having to try to control the nature of the relationship. It will happen naturally.

You call her your dream girl, but unfortunately, she's a nightmare. Who she was in the idealization stage wasn't her. If anything, if it was her at all, it was only a small part of her, and you need a whole person who can act decent most of the time. It sounds like you're putting her on the pedestal now, and she has done nothing to deserve it. In a way, after a breakup/divorce with a BPD, we have black and white thinking too. But instead of painting them black, we paint them white, and pine for the relationship we once had. We paint ourselves black because we figure if we had done something different, maybe the relationship would still be going on. Well, that's not true. The relationship was doomed from the beginning because of her disorder, not because of anything you did or didn't do.
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Mutt
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 01:03:15 AM »

Hi skackjellington,

I don't think that you deserve what she did either. I'm sorry she did that. I can understand how upsetting today would be.

she was crying and too emotional to get on the phone

Have you read about emotional dysregulation and borderline personality disorder?
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disillusionedandsore
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2015, 02:28:33 AM »

You are heartbroken understandably and in shock... .and terribly hurt... .I'm guessing you want to believe that because she was upset (crying) that that means something... .That this perhaps is not what she really wants... .?

Mixed messages over and over leave us filling in the blanks ourselves. Contradictions hurt our minds. It is nearly impossible to think straight when we are in pain ourselves and feel that so much is at stake.  Why are you beating yourself up when you know you did nothing wrong?  It sounds to be like you have given it your all and done your very best with this woman.

I'm concerned that you see yourself as not good enough for her?

That tells me there has been a whole lot of damage done to your self esteem

I can relate to trying to prove yourself innocent... .but if you can stand back from this for a bit you will see that is a game you can never win... .How do I know? I lived it too as many here have. It was exhausting.

Have you read about mirroring, projection?

This helped me understand the change from loving to abusive in my partner... .

Also reading up on fear of engulfment,  fear of abandonment and how these extreme fears cause a pwBpd to pull and push in love.

I know you love her but look where the relationship has brought you,  both of you,  that's not healthy or wholesome for either oarty.  I know how difficult it is to let go and to surrender to (and accept) the pain... .
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disillusionedandsore
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2015, 02:37:28 AM »

It is brutal there is no doubt about it.  Hang in there it does get better
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Trog
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2015, 04:49:23 AM »

She sends me an email of an audio clip with her screwing some other guy and him coming inside her. I've never been in so much pain in my life. I tied a belt around my neck and tried to use the door but after a few seconds the belt ripped through. Can't even get that right... .

Someone who can do that is NOT your dream girl. That is beyond needless and cruel, that is one of the worst things I've ever read on here and it's mental abuse. Look what it sent you toward doing. I don't care how great or perfect you think she is, and I'm saying this to be kind, you need to get clear that this woman is toxic to you. Please please get yourself to a good therapist right now and surround yourself with loving friends. Your pain over this oozes off the page and attempted suicide is not to be minimized. If you were with a BPD for any time you will be very used to minimising your emotions. This is a serious wound but it can be healed, you need to right away get help for you, start taking care of you, talk here, do everything you can for yourself right now.

I know, believe me, I know, the pain of love addiction and this is what this is. But don't take my word for it, can you afford a therapist?

'If I could prove to her that I was loyal' - read the above paragraph. She sent you a torturous audio file, for no other reason than to hurt you and you tried to kill yourself. And you want to prove you were loyal? I can't even ... .Guy, you are worth a million of this woman, there will be great girls who would chew off their arms to get to a guy with compassion and empathy as you clearly have but right now, it's misplaced.

She is capable of extreme cruelty, she is torturing you with the accusations of cheating as she tortured you with the audio file. I'd bet she even knows you didn't. My ex would accuse me of impossible crap, absolutely impossible stuff I could clearly not have done and it's insane makin justifying yourself this way. They bloody know it. They think cos they feel something then it's true even if it is physically impossible. Want to go to crazy town? My ex accused me of murdering people from her past and she'd punish me for things it's impossible I could have done! You don't need to prove anything to this woman. This is what they do, they push/pull, crazy make, gaslight and send you round the twist to the point of suicide. I never had suicidal thoughts until I met my ex, never.

Anyway, we are all here for you and please take care of yourself, you are worth so much more, you are a loveable human being and there is hope, in fact a good life waiting for you, take all the help you can at this point and treat yourself like you would a hurt child, get the ice-cream in, go to events or places you always wanted, treat yourself. I am so sorry you have been through this but know you're not alone and it gets better.
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2015, 06:16:26 AM »

"She sends me an email of an audio clip with her screwing some other guy and him coming inside her. I've never been in so much pain in my life. I tied a belt around my neck and tried to use the door but after a few seconds the belt ripped through. Can't even get that right... ."



This is NOT the woman of your dreams! What kind of woman would do that... .Premeditated! I can relate to your story... .I too was accused of cheating, in fact he was absolutely certain that I was having a long term affair with my best female friend... .(I am straight). He even send her a FB messages with volitile accusations and suggestions to buy strap ons... .Nothing I said or did could convince him otherwise. It was devastating for me... .I tried so hard to convince him and played right into his game... .He got a ton of supply at that time. As it turned out... .He was actually cheating on ME at that time. He even moved in with her, while still with me, LDR.

He would also send me pictures of him and other women... .Ofcourse he intended no ill... .(Yeah right) he just wanted to share with me what women would come on to him. Detailed stories about girls coming on to him wanting three-somes... .   and when I left him once and for all he send my sister a FB message telling her in detail how he was screwing 5 different 20- year olds built like brick houses (he's 40 and extremely overweight)... .How he was making them scream blah blah... .He told my sister I was in serious need of mental health care (I agree, clearly I wasnt good at the head loving this guy!) and that I needed to come out of the closet and tell everyone I was gay... .

I know all of what you are going through is so damn confusing and gut wrenching. How can the person you love say these things about you and do this to you while you gave your all and beyond to this person? Man I know I was a mess!

But DO NOT let it get to you! You know who you are, you know the thruth! Dont let this guilt trippin and bs take away your selfasteem! Its all games they play... .You deserve better... .So much better than this crap! I am niw almost 9 months out, still in pain, but soo much better already! Keep moving forward, distract your mind, hang with friends, take on a hobby, do things for you! Seek professional help, go to a T. It will seriously help you. Keep posting here and constantly remind yourself you deserve more!

Hang in there... .I know its hard, but you can do it! 
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FannyB
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2015, 06:36:17 AM »

skackjellington


I'm sorry you've been subjected to her revenge - BPD style. Because their emotions are so out of control any 'slight' can hurt them. Her wrong perception of what you did literally sent her crazy and she was seeking to hurt you like you 'hurt' her!   

Let's take a step back and consider your real SO - your kid. Park your feelings for your wife and think about the child. What's best for them? You've read about BPD so must know that you have become a trigger for your wife's dysregulated emotions. Do you want your kid growing up in an environment where dad's walking on eggshells and mum's going crazy over nothing? I left my crazy ex years ago. I get on better with her now as my presence doesn't wind her up. Her calmer moods benefit my son. He stays with me a lot and basically loves me to death for presenting him with a sane outlook on life. I couldn't have done that if I stayed.

I don't think my ex-wife had BPD - but the same principle applies. The kid must come first. This woman drove you to a suicide attempt. Imagine what that would have done to your child's psyche? Detach and heal. Best strategy for everyone involved.
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Aparicioo

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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2015, 04:19:15 PM »

I really appreciate all of the feedback from this community. Like Mister Brightside said, I understand it intellectually, but cannot not internalize it emotionally. The connection felt very real to me, and it's one I've never had in any other longterm relationship. I always thought we were going to make it and be together as a family in the end, and that therapy would be the answer.

She said to me many times that she hates herself when she's around me and resents me for staying with her. Any intimacy was swiftly followed by a cold distance. She would push me away until I was tired of rejection, and then the cycle would repeat itself. In my mind I would say, this is an illness, and an illness can be treated. She never did return to whoever she was during the ideation phase of the relationship, but that's okay. I was very happy with what I perceived as the real side of her when we were getting along.

It's just difficult to process and I'm terrible with emotions. It's also hard to read these responses and see so much pain caused by something that I see as fixable. Maybe that's the child of an alcoholic parent speaking.

I placed all of my self worth in the state of my relationship with her, and made it my identity. Couldn't be more lost. I was hanging on to this little bit of hope that she wouldn't sign the paperwork like all of the other times, that when it came down to ending our family forever, she wouldn't be able to do it.

Clearly, coming out on top of a situation like this requires an emotional skill set that I currently lack. Time heals all wounds they say, but it seems like this will never get better, and I've been through a lot in my life. Lol, I tried making myself hate her by writing lists of hurtful things that she has said and done, but it doesn't work because I know the truth. My hopes and dreams were for all of us to be together and I believe they were hers too.

I miss her and my son to the point of physical sickness. What a mess... .
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Mister Brightside
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2015, 07:14:50 PM »

She said to me many times that she hates herself when she's around me and resents me for staying with her. Any intimacy was swiftly followed by a cold distance. She would push me away until I was tired of rejection, and then the cycle would repeat itself.

Two things to note here.

(1) People with BPD are filled with so much internal shame that they figure if you are willing to put up with them, there must be something wrong with you.

(2) As for pushing you away until you got tired of the rejection, there is this. ":)ue to a Borderline's abandonment trauma early in life, he/she is compelled to continually test you, and your love/devotion. This individual has low self-esteem, and deep-down believes he/she isn't worthy of receiving love. They usually pick partners they sense will never leave them, which helps to assuage their abandonment concerns--but the 'testing phase' never actually ends. If they finally succeed in making you leave, it's prophesy fulfillment! If you stick by him/her no matter how poorly they treat you, they will continue taking you for granted, and their punishing or abusive behaviors will never cease."
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2015, 09:48:07 PM »

also, the fear of engulfment:

"She said to me many times that she hates herself when she's around me and resents me for staying with her. Any intimacy was swiftly followed by a cold distance. She would push me away until I was tired of rejection,"

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2015, 10:54:27 PM »

Excerpt
The connection felt very real to me, and it's one I've never had in any other longterm relationship.

I can understand how the relationship felt real to you. However difficult your ex was she meant something to you. You loved her. I get that. A relationship with a pwBPD may sooth life long emotional wounds with some members.

----Mutt
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Aparicioo

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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2015, 02:48:45 AM »

She said to me many times that she hates herself when she's around me and resents me for staying with her. Any intimacy was swiftly followed by a cold distance. She would push me away until I was tired of rejection, and then the cycle would repeat itself.

(2) As for pushing you away until you got tired of the rejection, there is this. ":)ue to a Borderline's abandonment trauma early in life, he/she is compelled to continually test you, and your love/devotion. This individual has low self-esteem, and deep-down believes he/she isn't worthy of receiving love. They usually pick partners they sense will never leave them, which helps to assuage their abandonment concerns--but the 'testing phase' never actually ends. If they finally succeed in making you leave, it's prophesy fulfillment! If you stick by him/her no matter how poorly they treat you, they will continue taking you for granted, and their punishing or abusive behaviors will never cease."

Tough pill to swallow.
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Aparicioo

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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 02:54:09 AM »

Excerpt
Clearly, coming out on top of a situation like this requires an emotional skill set that I currently lack. Time heals all wounds they say, but it seems like this will never get better, and I've been through a lot in my life.



I get it. I have been through a lot in my life too and a break-up with a pwBPD was the most difficult thing I faced and I couldn't see how I would get out of the mess I was in. Boy was I glad that I had found bpdfamily; it was my safety net. I'm sorry that this happened.


It helps to talk.


----Mutt

So how do you feel about things now? Emphasis on the feeling part, because the rational bits of this are easy... .
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 09:57:55 AM »

Excerpt
Clearly, coming out on top of a situation like this requires an emotional skill set that I currently lack. Time heals all wounds they say, but it seems like this will never get better, and I've been through a lot in my life.



I get it. I have been through a lot in my life too and a break-up with a pwBPD was the most difficult thing I faced and I couldn't see how I would get out of the mess I was in. Boy was I glad that I had found bpdfamily; it was my safety net. I'm sorry that this happened.


It helps to talk.


----Mutt

So how do you feel about things now? Emphasis on the feeling part, because the rational bits of this are easy... .

I think that you're asking about how do I feel about how things are now?

My ex lacks impulse control and thoughts to consequences. That being said, I think do think as impulsive as her choice was it was the right thing to do.  I was trying to fix and make things work at whatever cost.  It was for the sake of keeping the family together because I didn't want the kids to grow up in a broken home. Now that I'm not together with my ex and on the other side of the fence, I see nearly half are divorced. Half of my kids classmates are in the same situation and some parents get along and some don't after the split.

She has difficulties regulating her emotions and often projects her negative emotions on dad and still does after the split. The kids were often witnessing conflict between mom and dad.

There was an awful lot of conflict at home between mom and dad. I don't think that it was healthy for the kids to watch this. Her boyfriend keeps the chaos away from me and I spend time with my kids at peace without all of the drama. My plan at the time was to leave after the kids were grown up because I really was not happy and was enmeshed.

I couldn't see it at the time because I was angry and hurt and she did something that I didn't have the courage to do at the time. I rather would have stayed in a bad marriage than being by myself and start over.

I have many choices to do what I want without sacrificing myself. It was hard to fathom when I was knee deep in pain. I grieved the relationship and owned my part and there was a time I took the lion's share of the blame. I am glad that she made her choice to leave.
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Aparicioo

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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2015, 05:53:54 PM »

Excerpt
Clearly, coming out on top of a situation like this requires an emotional skill set that I currently lack. Time heals all wounds they say, but it seems like this will never get better, and I've been through a lot in my life.



I get it. I have been through a lot in my life too and a break-up with a pwBPD was the most difficult thing I faced and I couldn't see how I would get out of the mess I was in. Boy was I glad that I had found bpdfamily; it was my safety net. I'm sorry that this happened.


It helps to talk.


----Mutt

So how do you feel about things now? Emphasis on the feeling part, because the rational bits of this are easy... .

I think that you're asking about how do I feel about how things are now?

My ex lacks impulse control and thoughts to consequences. That being said, I think do think as impulsive as her choice was it was the right thing to do.  I was trying to fix and make things work at whatever cost.  It was for the sake of keeping the family together because I didn't want the kids to grow up in a broken home. Now that I'm not together with my ex and on the other side of the fence, I see nearly half are divorced. Half of my kids classmates are in the same situation and some parents get along and some don't after the split.

She has difficulties regulating her emotions and often projects her negative emotions on dad and still does after the split. The kids were often witnessing conflict between mom and dad.

There was an awful lot of conflict at home between mom and dad. I don't think that it was healthy for the kids to watch this. Her boyfriend keeps the chaos away from me and I spend time with my kids at peace without all of the drama. My plan at the time was to leave after the kids were grown up because I really was not happy and was enmeshed.

I couldn't see it at the time because I was angry and hurt and she did something that I didn't have the courage to do at the time. I rather would have stayed in a bad marriage than being by myself and start over.

I have many choices to do what I want without sacrificing myself. It was hard to fathom when I was knee deep in pain. I grieved the relationship and owned my part and there was a time I took the lion's share of the blame. I am glad that she made her choice to leave.

Thanks for sharing that story. It's valuable to hear how someone is managing the outcome of a similar situation. So when you say she 'projects her negative emotions on dad after the split', is this in a direct manner by way of your interactions with her, or is she trying to alienate your kids from you when you're not present?
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2015, 06:43:01 PM »

Excerpt
Thanks for sharing that story. It's valuable to hear how someone is managing the outcome of a similar situation. So when you say she 'projects her negative emotions on dad after the split', is this in a direct manner by way of your interactions with her, or is she trying to alienate your kids from you when you're not present?

I can't say that she's alienated the kids. I do encourage the kids with talking about mom at my house so they don't think that the subject is taboo. I don't ask them what mom says about dad and they haven't said anything about mom saying bad things. She's their mother after all and their too young to understand that she's mentally ill. They love her unconditionally. She has validated that I do take good care of the kids and that I'm a good dad.

I think that's a good question with how I interact with her and if I trigger. I validate and use communication tools like SET and she's pregnant with her boyfriend and her hormones are likely very high.

I'll give you an example of her projection, she's emotionally dysregulated for several weeks and it's not by how I talk or interact because I talk about the kids and not about personal matters. He's slowly being split black and he's likely not validating her because she's struggling with her emotions and I'm slowly being split white. She dysregulayed before her communiques reach me and looking for soothing. She has said that she forgives me and I think she was asking for my forgiveness and projected her part of the relationship by saying that I still don't understand what I did wrong in the r/s.

I can't control what she sends in her communiques and I can control how I respond and talking about our marriage is not something that I'm comfortable talking to her about. She chose to exit the marriage and had an affair. It's over and there's no real incentive to talk about our marriage. She's been testing the waters since around last Oct. She's projecting her actions with her affair and dissociating by lying and altering reality that the marriage was over way before she left.
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