Triggered by email this morning... need to be careful today

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So... .yesterday... .she decides to redo the chore chart.  We have been talking about it not working for a while... .so I suppose it was time. 

The way she went about it was "queeny"  and crabby... .she seemed to pretend to try and have discussion about it when she was really telling people... .including me what we were going to do.

I let her know that I created a shared spreadsheet and that we could find alone time to work through any changes that need be... .and that should prevent any unauthorized edits to the chart... .(in marker on a white board)... .

She made it obvious by lack of response and actions that this was not a discussion item... .she was going to issue the chores.

So... .last night... .I had a bit of a meltdown... .(meltdown might be a bit strong of a word... .but it wasn't good).  I was by myself... .trying to sort out and issue in my unemployment account... .and realized that my benefits most likely run out in 3 weeks.  The state I live in dropped out of the federal program... .which seems to have affected this.  I'll no for sure today when I call.

So... .rather than continue to worry and ruminate... .I got to sleep... .had an OK night.

My habit in the morning is to wake up and scan email for good news... .more often than not... .something is there... .an interview... .follow up... .note from a friend.

I woke up anxious... .and it never crossed my mind that my wife would send me something like below.

start of email

You did not do your chore today... .the kitchen... .  you told kids to do it in    morning saying that the dishes were from night before and then you told jack  clean it in the  evening.  You are the stay at home parent and you need to in the very least do your chores in the house each day.  FIRST, before you go outside and keep busy.  I come home from working all day and take care of the little girls, make dinner,do laundry, clean the house and you seem to think you should not have to contribute to the household chores... .beneath you? SET A GOOD EXAMPLE for your children who you expect  do their chores and DO YOURS PLEASE.

end of email

Something clicked in me... .I haven't felt that in a while. 

I said (she had hit snooze a couple times... .so I know she was up... .but laying there)  Please stop sending me emails like this.  They are not helpful.  I don't understand why you won't talk to me directly if you have issues to discuss.  That will give you a chance to see what is going on with me before launching into your issue... .

She didn't respond... .just laid there.

I continued... .

A lot happened last night... .I'm not in a good place... .please find 10 minutes to chat with me before you need to leave this morning... .


More later on this... .I think she is up now.  I need to focus on remaining calm. 

Or... .possibly need to focus on skipping the conversation this morning.

FF

[formflier]

So... .yesterday... .she decides to redo the chore chart.  We have been talking about it not working for a while... .so I suppose it was time. 

The way she went about it was "queeny"  and crabby... .she seemed to pretend to try and have discussion about it when she was really telling people... .including me what we were going to do.

I let her know that I created a shared spreadsheet and that we could find alone time to work through any changes that need be... .and that should prevent any unauthorized edits to the chart... .(in marker on a white board)... .

She made it obvious by lack of response and actions that this was not a discussion item... .she was going to issue the chores.

So... .last night... .I had a bit of a meltdown... .(meltdown might be a bit strong of a word... .but it wasn't good).  I was by myself... .trying to sort out and issue in my unemployment account... .and realized that my benefits most likely run out in 3 weeks.  The state I live in dropped out of the federal program... .which seems to have affected this.  I'll no for sure today when I call.

So... .rather than continue to worry and ruminate... .I got to sleep... .had an OK night.

My habit in the morning is to wake up and scan email for good news... .more often than not... .something is there... .an interview... .follow up... .note from a friend.

I woke up anxious... .and it never crossed my mind that my wife would send me something like below.

start of email

You did not do your chore today... .the kitchen... .  you told kids to do it in    morning saying that the dishes were from night before and then you told jack  clean it in the  evening.  You are the stay at home parent and you need to in the very least do your chores in the house each day.  FIRST, before you go outside and keep busy.  I come home from working all day and take care of the little girls, make dinner,do laundry, clean the house and you seem to think you should not have to contribute to the household chores... .beneath you? SET A GOOD EXAMPLE for your children who you expect  do their chores and DO YOURS PLEASE.

end of email

Something clicked in me... .I haven't felt that in a while. 

I said (she had hit snooze a couple times... .so I know she was up... .but laying there)  Please stop sending me emails like this.  They are not helpful.  I don't understand why you won't talk to me directly if you have issues to discuss.  That will give you a chance to see what is going on with me before launching into your issue... .

She didn't respond... .just laid there.

I continued... .

A lot happened last night... .I'm not in a good place... .please find 10 minutes to chat with me before you need to leave this morning... .


More later on this... .I think she is up now.  I need to focus on remaining calm. 

Or... .possibly need to focus on skipping the conversation this morning.

FF

[formflier]

 

By the way... .the facts and "allegations" in the email are not correct.

Not exactly a fantasy... .but a very skewed way of thinking of things... .a one minute conversation could correct them... .she may not agree on my decisions (that I made when she wasn't here)... .

I cleaned the kitchen and cooked a couple times yesterday... .I also had kids do it a couple times.  Apparently wife and kids stayed up and dirtied it again last night... .but did not clean it.  I was already asleep... .went to bed about 1030... .no idea when they went to sleep.

FF

[Notwendy]

These e mails are irritating to you.

You could set a boundary with your wife that you will not respond to e mails or texts over these things and discuss them face to face. There is too much room for error in this kind of communication anyway. E mails and texts have their place, but you don't have to use them for this since you live with each other.

This may be what is bugging you. Using e mail for what should be face to face communications.

So, without being critical, you could state that you prefer that these topics be discussed face to face, and that you do not wish to engage in e mail discussions over this.

Then, when you get an e mail - which you likely will- maybe a bunch of them! Reply with " Let's set a time to discuss this in person, love, FF"

and be consistent. You can use the same response for texts.

[formflier]

 

All... .100% of the MC's, pastors... .etc etc have advised us to stop emailing each other... .

Some would put a caveat in there that "unless it is loving... .etc etc"

She will agree... .promise... .all of that

It's been discussed... .agreed to... .but it is an item which requires her compliance.

To be clear and honest... .this has gotten better than even a year ago... .certainly a couple years ago... .

It most likely will be something that exists in our r/s... .in some form... .for a long time.   

She either does not want to ... .or has no capability to remember or hold to agreements.

Sigh... .

FF

[formflier]

 

So... .here is the update.

She gets up... .and comes down to kitchen.  Says... .if I want to talk to her that I can come talk while she makes a roast.

I said... ."I'll wait until we can have a conversation with no distractions... .it's an important issue for me.  I'm not demanding we have the conversation right now."

She went on about her stuff... .

She comes in when she is getting ready to leave and asks where the car key is.  I said I didn't know and that I had to use the backup key yesterday... .and that I would search for the key some today... .and that lost keys were frustrating (weak attempt at validation).

She goes off to get the key... .comes back and says... .the key is not in the keybox... .you didn't put it back yesterday... .so... .where did you put it?

I got up... .walked in to the where the keybox is... .opened it and waited for her to come in.  I pointed to the key and said in an even voice... ."The  key is in the keybox.  That is where it was yesterday and that is where I put it back when I was done with it yesterday."

I started walking out of the room and she starts yelling (maybe a bit below a yell)... ."You can't speak to me this way... .I'm not going to allow it."

I picked up my laptop to leave the room... .showed her the email page and said... ."I don't want to be communicated with this way as well... ."

I walk up to our room.

Towards the top of the stairs she is yelling that "I'm going to keep sending those until you do your chores... ."

I don't respond.

She comes up to room... .stands in front of me with hands on hips... ."let's hear it... .let's hear what happened to you last night... .(very nasty tone). 

I stand up to leave the room and she is very obvious about leaning into me (I guess as a way to block my exit out the door)... .we make contact... .I rotate my body to minimize contact and leave the room and go downstairs.

She follows to living room and demands again (in front of kids)... .I get up and go back to bedroom.

She follows back up... .stomps around bedroom and says "I have a lot of nerve to be mad at her... .and stomps off to go to work... ."

Sigh... .

FF

[Notwendy]

As to e mails, there is no way to control whether she sends them or not. She can agree with you, your pastor and anyone else not to send them, but she can also choose what she wants to do.

The only thing you can do is your part of it. Since you already discussed this and had an agreement over them, as well as talked this am- then, your choice is to not respond to them.

You don't have to say anything, just no response. Pretend they went into the spam folder. In fact, set up another folder for her e mails alone. Move them to there for reference- and to document them. Then, no response. She's going to probably yell at you about them, but if you calmly say " I do not wish to discuss this by e mail" that's all she's going to get from you no matter what she does.

From how she is speaking, I get the sense that she is resentful of the role reversal. That may not be really an issue, but people with BPD can find something to be resentful about that seems reasonable to them and that takes the focus off the issues and themselves. So perhaps not paying too close attention to the issue at hand - chores, keys, work, and to the emotions might make this clearer.

I don't know if mutual agreements always hold up- but the only thing we can do is hold up our end of the deal- If you do this, then I will do that. The email thing can only be controlled on your side of it.

[Sunfl0wer]

So for a boundary that does not rely on anyone but you... .

Can you do similar to what NotWendy says... .

Can you open, scan, see that it is Not a love note, quickly move it to a spam folder WITHOUT reading it?

Then if she makes reference to it... .

Explain your boundary:

I am not reading or responding to emails like those.  I have not read that.  Please let's sit down about it.  When is good?

Sound like you need boundaries you can implement solo.

[formflier]

 

No telling what is "really" on her mind.

We have two different "styles" or theories on raising kids and housework.

She and I were not on the chore chart before.  I think that was her going along with me... .in that there is a difference in parents and kids... .we are not the same... .not same rules... .we are leaders and in charge and need to train them... .not be one of them.

So... .yesterday... .she put her name... .and my name on the chore chart... .I already had kids working on the kitchen and she put my name on as doing the kitchen.  I didn't agree to it... .I did agree to have a discussion about it... .that we could adjust it over the week to get to something that works for the summer.  Of course... .she doesn't respond... .she is expecting a one way conversation on this (I don't know this... .but this is my best guess... .history supports this).

So... .the clever thing she did... .was create an issue she can hit me with on day one... .that kids were doing chores... .when it was my day... .then... .after taking kids for weekend... .(I was ok with it... .I needed alone time) and saying that projects (a horse trailer) could start on Monday... .in fact... .that was our "deal"... .I got 45 minutes of kids grinding on trailer... .and then she took them (I protested and dropped it) to do something for her.  

My overriding thought here is she is upping the ante to have control over my actions and the family.  Maybe in response to working out of the house... .and missing it... . Again... .I'm guessing.

I took my name off the chore chart... .it's up for negotiation to go back on... .but I doubt she will be willing to have that conversation.

She can put her name on... .or take off... .that is her issue.

FF

[formflier]

So for a boundary that does not rely on anyone but you... .

Can you do similar to what NotWendy says... .

Can you open, scan, see that it is Not a love note, quickly move it to a spam folder WITHOUT reading it?

Then if she makes reference to it... .

Explain your boundary:

I am not reading or responding to emails like those.  I have not read that.  Please let's sit down about it.  When is good?

Sound like you need boundaries you can implement solo.

Yeah... .I see the point... .but the first sentence is... .

"you did not do chores"... .or something like that.  I was triggered at that point... .

The email was straw that broke the back... .rest of my stuff... .had little to do with my wife.

I made a critical error... .I have a one year unemployment benefit... .I assumed that meant I could get paid for a year... .fine print says otherwise.

In fact... .I need to call right now... .they just opened... .to try and figure this out.

This is frustration with me... .I'm not the guy I used to be... .I am doing better dealing with my limitations and disabilities... .sigh... .it's a long subject. 

I wouldn't have been in this position or made this mistake... .even 5 years ago... .certainly not 10.  Very frustrating... .

FF

[Notwendy]

It would be rare for two parents to not have different parenting styles. What parents need to agree on is the boundaries to agree on, so kids can't run to one parent for "yes" when one says "no" although this happens a lot.

Kids figure it out though. They know that at grandmas house, some rules apply, and at home others, and with dad and with mom.

I think the issue is stepping over the boundaries with who is doing what job. My H delegated the home and kids to me. Then- this is my job. He has input, but he doesn't get to order me around any more than I would get to walk into his office and give him orders about his job.

Your wife is at work, but she still feels the home is her job. This is understandable as it is generally her job as well. However, now that you are the stay at home dad, it is your job, and so her giving you orders is as aggravating to you as if she was telling you how to fly a plane.

If my H were to clean the kitchen, I don't get to tell him how to do it any more than I would like it if he told me how to do it. Now, we can make requests- once I used something smelly to clean and he didn't like it, or if I cook something he doesn't care for- he can tell me, but I would not like him to order me. I can also call him at work and ask if he can schedule a time to do something with me, but he would not like it if I ordered him to do it.

Set your boundary on this. Say once: I don't like to be ordered around. Please ask kindly. Then, don't respond to orders.

She might rage or whatever, but too bad.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yeah... .I see the point... .but the first sentence is... .

"you did not do chores"... .or something like that.  I was triggered at that point... .

The email was straw that broke the back... .rest of my stuff... .had little to do with my wife.

I made a critical error... .I have a one year unemployment benefit... .I assumed that meant I could get paid for a year... .fine print says otherwise.

In fact... .I need to call right now... .they just opened... .to try and figure this out.

This is frustration with me... .I'm not the guy I used to be... .I am doing better dealing with my limitations and disabilities... .sigh... .it's a long subject. 

I wouldn't have been in this position or made this mistake... .even 5 years ago... .certainly not 10.  Very frustrating... .

FF

So are you saying that your frustration is not actually her sending (you reading) an email even though she agreed, and T says not to?

Are you saying that your frustration is that you are feeling badly yourself for things you expected of yourself re your unemployment?  (And she just triggered you to surface your own feelings of self doubt)

I know I often have an inner voice that is critical towards me.

It can be a trigger for me when I hear someone else say or do something that brings a sense of self doubt to me.  If I am criticized, and it see no merit in the words, it rarely gets to me.  However, if it was already something that nagged at me from myself, then I can be bothered.

Do you think it would help, if instead of focusing on her and what she "should" do, that you instead focus on yourself, resolving/addressing this unemployment benefit to your satisfaction?

You may not be able to actually resolve it, but you CAN accept it an make some steps in an empowering direction for yourself as a result of the current reality of it?

Would this be more useful/productive/feel better to you?

[formflier]

It would be rare for two parents to not have different parenting styles. What parents need to agree on is the boundaries to agree on, so kids can't run to one parent for "yes" when one says "no" although this happens a lot.

This still happens a lot... .but is better... .might be getting worse again... .we'll see where she takes this.

But... .it is her encouraging the kids or definitely allowing the kids to get out of work... .to be fun... .delay work unless I am standing right there.

Even then... .sometimes she pokes at the ":)addy... .don't be too hard on them... ." in front of them.

Of course... .she reserves the right to flip a switch... .stomp around the house... .yell at kids about not doing chores... .being lazy azzes that only watch tv and goof off.

Then... .poof... .the other mom is back... .

FF

[formflier]

So are you saying that your frustration is not actually her sending (you reading) an email even though she agreed, and T says not to?

That is/was frustrating... .a bad irritant... .but on a normal day... .I would have just ignored it... .I don't think it would be a data point... .nothing else.

I woke up anxious... .was not good... .I had no reserves... .no ability to  handle a "poke".

For whatever reason... .she was in a poking mood... .

I let her know I had stuff going on... .she seemed to poke harder.

She is getting better about this... .but I haven't been this way in a while.  She will (when she is "better" ask about my feelings... .

there have been a couple incidents in the past month or two... .where she actually asked "How are you doing... ."  My response was "not good"... .She then proceeded to attempt to offload a bunch of crap on me... .blame... .accuse... .

I got up and walked out of room both times... .I had reserves to do that. 

I get it... .it's the disorder... .but... .really... .?  You ask... .get a not good answer... .and proceed to lambast.

Sigh... .

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

It would be rare for two parents to not have different parenting styles. What parents need to agree on is the boundaries to agree on, so kids can't run to one parent for "yes" when one says "no" although this happens a lot.

This still happens a lot... .but is better... .might be getting worse again... .we'll see where she takes this.

But... .it is her encouraging the kids or definitely allowing the kids to get out of work... .to be fun... .delay work unless I am standing right there.

Even then... .sometimes she pokes at the ":)addy... .don't be too hard on them... ." in front of them.

Of course... .she reserves the right to flip a switch... .stomp around the house... .yell at kids about not doing chores... .being lazy azzes that only watch tv and goof off.

Then... .poof... .the other mom is back... .

FF

This sounds all too familiar.  Ridiculous... .It would frustrate the hell out of me... .It still happens at times, but rarely because of our current situation.  Now, I just ignore it... .

[vortex of confusion]

How are you doing with things now?

I have a couple of questions.

What is the purpose of the chore chart if nobody follows it? What would happen if you suggested that the chore chart get thrown out the window?

Also, this is a bit of an aside/rant:

I hate the word chores. That word has a negative connotation and is vague. I don't use the word chore in my house. If something needs done, I say what needs to be done specifically. Cleaning the house is a bit vague but I trust that people can walk through a room and see that it is in some state of disarray. If you want kids to learn to clean up and contribute, the parents need to set an example that cleaning this or that isn't a chore but is part of life and it doesn't have to feel like painful work. When I work in the kitchen, I am known to put on music and dance. When the kids and pick up the living room, it becomes a game of throwing things to see if we can make it to the toy box. If you and your wife are fighting over the chores and making it sound like such a major production, why the heck would kids want to be a part of that? No, everything in life isn't fun but it sure as heck goes a lot better when kids aren't watching mom and dad fight about this stuff.

Would a daily schedule for the kids be more helpful? Something that includes play time/fun time/do whatever you want time?

Even if two parents have the same ideas about parenting, things are going to look very different. I have had this discussion with my husband on several occasions. He and I are two very different people. He has different strengths than I do and I have different strengths than he does. He doesn't get that. He tries to mirror me and wants to be like me. The problem is that he isn't me. It sounds like your wife is wanting you to be like her and you are not like her. You are you and you need the space to be able to be yourself and have a relationship with the kids where she isn't trying to sabatoge things between you and the kids. My husband did that for a while. He would tell the kids, ":)on't bother your mother, she is going to get mad." They would bother me anyway and I wouldn't get mad. He would get mad and go off about how he told them not to do this that or the other.

Re the comment about not doing your chores. Would it be possible to validate this without being defensive? Something along the lines of, "You are right. I didn't do my chores. I am not a little kid. I am an adult and I don't see doing things around the house as chores." Or something like that. I find the whole idea of a wife giving her husband a list of chores to be a bit demeaning. A honey do list or some other kind of list is fine but a friggin' chore list? Yuck!    That is my own personal pet peeve. I wanted to share it with you because I thought you might find it validating. 

[formflier]

How are you doing with things now?

I have a couple of questions.

What is the purpose of the chore chart if nobody follows it? What would happen if you suggested that the chore chart get thrown out the window?

I have suggested this before... .and it is "her" chore chart... .can't be done... .blah blah.

I don't like the word chore either.  It is a very common farm term... ."choring"... .an that is where is seems to have been picked up in common use in our family... .it wasn't there prior to going to the farm... .we have been off farm for 2-3 years now.

Hmmm... .I would like to change the language too.

The enforcement of the chore chart... .and "enforcement" in general... .is the haphazard thing... .that I think is most confusing to me and my kids.  But... .they get that when mommy flips out... .they have to turn to... .the rest of the time... .sneaking off is ok.

If daddy catches you sneaking off... .you are way better of than to cross mommy when she is flipped out (all my words... .just interpreting what I see)... .

We have had an ok day since she has been home... .she tossed out a couple rabbit trails to distract several issues... .but no mention of the morning events... .no mention of my name being gone off the chore chart.

If she wants to put her name up there... .she can... .I don't control her... .my name has never been on the chore chart... .the one day she claimed I "agreed" to be part of this (I kinda did... .during a distracted conversation... .her favorite kind... .try to solve 3 things at once... .quickly... .before I understand)... .I won't be busted again on it.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

She is acting like she is used to setting the rules for everything in the house.

If it wasn't so rapidly going from bad to worse and putting you into a guaranteed-to-lose double-bind situation, you would be in the rather unfortunate position of letting her control the decisions about stuff by defining the questions and choices, then debating with you about the choices... .all from a menu she has set.

My only suggestion is that you stop trying to get her to have a reasonable discussion about what is going to happen, and how you two are going to cooperate on running the house / getting the kids to do chores (or whatever you call them), etc., etc.

She doesn't do good discussions in a way that work with you. When one happens, either she thinks you agreed to her plan (which you at most half-way did while distracted), or you think she agreed to her plan... .and either way, by the next morning, somebody isn't living up to the expectations that somebody else thought they had agreed to, and is kinda pissed.

STOP TRYING TO DISCUSS IT. Has there ever been a good outcome from this?

Instead choose what you will do. Be productive. Do things that you value. Keep the household from falling apart the best you can. And stop trying to discuss it with her. Do honor her reasonable requests. Quietly but firmly decline her less reasonable/possible ones. And let her do what she chooses.