Two days notice for kids to help do things around the house

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So... .sometimes things are just laughable .

We are trying to improve behavior of S14.  Normal stuff... .he is great kid... .well... .he is expressing a desire to know how long he is going to need to work each day... .because "all he ever does" is work and do projects... .he "never" gets time with friends... .etc etc

Well... .I'm really trying to figure out if there are real issues here... .or just some skewed perceptions.

Then it comes out... .he believes that I should figure out what chores or projects need to be done two days from now and lock in his work schedule then... .and inside two days... .it can't be changed.

Then... .my wife jumps in and is saying that is a great idea... .

I'm incredulous... .told him I would consider what I can do to make it better... .and would talk to him later about this.

Reality... .I talked to him Monday morning and let him know I would need help on a trailer... .and some other projects.  He asked if we could plan a time later in the day when he could work for like two hours on the trailer and then do stuff with friends.  I let him know I didn't know if we could limit it to two hours... .but I would do my best.

I gave him a 20 minute heads up that I would need him to start helping... .so he could wrap up the video games.  Then... .when I asked him to come out and start working... .it took him 15 minutes to shut things down and come out.

He worked on the trailer for 45 minutes... .it was time for dinner... .and he didn't return to work any more because he "had to check on his class" (online)... .he was supposed to come find me when done with class... .3 hours later... .I stop by his room and he is playing video games.

So... .he claims he worked "all day" and only got "1 hour" to play video games. 

My wife is saying that I am too hard on him... .?    

"Can't we just let them be kids?"... .and then launches into a rant about her childhood... .loosely trying to infer that I am raising my kid like her mother raised her. 

   

Parenting with a pwBPD in the picture can so quickly go to bizarro land... .

Thanks for letting me vent... .

How do I respond to a request to tell a kid two days ahead of time what he will be doing and when... .and to "guarantee" it won't change.

That's just not life... .in my book... .

FF

[formflier]

So... .sometimes things are just laughable .

We are trying to improve behavior of S14.  Normal stuff... .he is great kid... .well... .he is expressing a desire to know how long he is going to need to work each day... .because "all he ever does" is work and do projects... .he "never" gets time with friends... .etc etc

Well... .I'm really trying to figure out if there are real issues here... .or just some skewed perceptions.

Then it comes out... .he believes that I should figure out what chores or projects need to be done two days from now and lock in his work schedule then... .and inside two days... .it can't be changed.

Then... .my wife jumps in and is saying that is a great idea... .

I'm incredulous... .told him I would consider what I can do to make it better... .and would talk to him later about this.

Reality... .I talked to him Monday morning and let him know I would need help on a trailer... .and some other projects.  He asked if we could plan a time later in the day when he could work for like two hours on the trailer and then do stuff with friends.  I let him know I didn't know if we could limit it to two hours... .but I would do my best.

I gave him a 20 minute heads up that I would need him to start helping... .so he could wrap up the video games.  Then... .when I asked him to come out and start working... .it took him 15 minutes to shut things down and come out.

He worked on the trailer for 45 minutes... .it was time for dinner... .and he didn't return to work any more because he "had to check on his class" (online)... .he was supposed to come find me when done with class... .3 hours later... .I stop by his room and he is playing video games.

So... .he claims he worked "all day" and only got "1 hour" to play video games. 

My wife is saying that I am too hard on him... .?    

"Can't we just let them be kids?"... .and then launches into a rant about her childhood... .loosely trying to infer that I am raising my kid like her mother raised her. 

   

Parenting with a pwBPD in the picture can so quickly go to bizarro land... .

Thanks for letting me vent... .

How do I respond to a request to tell a kid two days ahead of time what he will be doing and when... .and to "guarantee" it won't change.

That's just not life... .in my book... .

FF

[vortex of confusion]

How do I respond to a request to tell a kid two days ahead of time what he will be doing and when... .and to "guarantee" it won't change.

That's just not life... .in my book... .

Is he out of school for the summer?

It may not be life but it is school! A teacher in my area is expected to create lesson plans for every day and every class without veering too far off course. When I was student teaching, I had to submit lesson plans over a month in advance and stick with them for the most part.

No, you can't guarantee that it won't change but you can offer a schedule and try to stick with it if possible.

When you were in the military, did you have a daily schedule or routine that you followed? Was there a certain time for meals, bed, wake up, etc?

[married21years]

think you need to sit down with the wife and make an agreement in writing on how this is handled. she seems to be projecting somethings on to you.

tread carefully. she has to back you up with decisions with the kids or this will never work.

we had this agreement and the first time she threw me under the bus and didnt back me up.  revenge was sweet doing it back. it made my point!

gl ff 

[formflier]

When you were in the military, did you have a daily schedule or routine that you followed? Was there a certain time for meals, bed, wake up, etc?

There was a flight schedule that was written for every day.

The only guarantee was that what was on the schedule... .was not going to happen. 

The schedule is how you measured where you were at... .a reference point. 

You actually flew your plane based on the needs of the moment... .real life... .versus what was on the sheet of paper.

FF

[formflier]

think you need to sit down with the wife and make an agreement in writing on how this is handled. she seems to be projecting somethings on to you.

tread carefully. she has to back you up with decisions with the kids or this will never work.

we had this agreement and the first time she threw me under the bus and didnt back me up.  revenge was sweet doing it back. it made my point!

gl ff 

She finds written agreements invalidating... .because I like to bring them out and ask about how they are going... .status... .etc etc.

I am a fan of them... .she is not.  The argument then becomes how I tricked her into agreeing to this or that... .or why the written agreement no longer applies. 

It's been well over a year since we've written anything down... .

Conflict is much better... ."productivity" has come to almost a complete halt... .

FF

[married21years]

sorry she is not being honest written agreements are fine.

but too rigid for her emotions.

stick to your guns be strong 

[Notwendy]

FF, I see this as something between you and your son. He came to you, not her. And he made a request. Sounds very adult to me- not that this won't need time and practice to develop but really, I don't see a wrong in a teen son asking that he know his schedule in advance and have it be consistent.

Sure, things can change at the last minute, it happens, and he knows that too. From your posts it seems to me that things in your home can be unpredictable- a lot of things happen and change.

He's asking for some predictability. Maybe you can't give him 100% but nobody can. He wants to make plans. He doesn't want to get his hopes up to do something fun and then have that dashed with last minute chores. Jobs, schools, work that way. Many assignments, projects, and meetings are scheduled in advance.

Your wife may mess things up, but this is something he asked you to to. I think this is an opportunity for the two of you to build trust. It's a two way street at this point. Yes, you are the parent and he is the child, but not for long. And mom doesn't need to be involved in everything you two discuss.

He's probably figured mom and you out anyway- which is why he came to you. Can you give him his request and keep your word? Sure last minute things will come up, he knows that, but also when this happens you will need to choose between consistency and the job. A large job may need his help, something smaller you may decide to do yourself to honor your agreement.

What about some flexible options? You know that the lawn needs to be mowed, and if that is his job, then he could do it on Wednesday or Thursday as long as it gets done.

Make a list of his jobs. Many of these jobs are jobs that repeat themselves. The lawn, cleaning, school classes. Ask him to make a list of things he wants to do- see friends, video games, etc. Make a working schedule.

His wish for more autonomy is normal. You can give it out in small trials- so he only worked one hour instead of two? Well there was dinner. If you wish for two hours, schedule a whole 2 + time for some error- giving him a chance to stop the game, and so on. This may not be something that will run smoothly and efficiently at the start or for a while. But IMHO, it is a good first step at your son moving towards wanting to manage his own time.

[formflier]

 

Yeah... .he made a reasonable request... .but discussions about what actually happened are very skewed... .especially when wife inserts herself.

Things are chaotic in our house... .the general demand... .want... .is that fun be guaranteed... ."can't we just be kids" (wife preaches this lots)... .and someone else does work.

Sigh... .I feel like there are three parents in this house... .me... ."kid wife"... ."task master wife"  (no way that I've figured out how to predict when either of those wives will show up... .)

FF

[Notwendy]

I am grateful that we don't have parenting issues as a couple, although I think my H would say I am easier on the kids than he is. I am not sure that is such a bad thing because of the way my H's father was. I think a different quality- consistency- is also important.

I am trying to put myself in your son's shoes, at 14, with a mom with BPD and a certain level of chaos and unpredictability. Just like you, we didn't know which "mom" would be there when we came home from school. We were beginning to see the whole picture- and knew that mom was unreliable, and an agreement with her would not necessarily be a reliable one. But we also knew Dad, and started to come to him as an individual to discuss things that are important to us.

My H and I discuss the major things, but we do have individual relationships with our kids and I am OK with that. If the kids want something that is significantly costly- such as a computer- I ask them to make an agreement with him directly- with me out of it, because I know that it can get messy if I make this a three way discussion. Topics like school, or personal things like a boy or girl question, or physical things like periods- that is not going to dad. He doesn't need to hear about cramps, or shopping for a dress for prom. However, he doesn't get into my decisions over these things. There are things we decide together and things we do not.

Your kid came to you. What is your domain with jobs for him? The truck? Taking out the trash? I really see this as an opportunity for you and he to form an individual relationship. Yes, you have a complicated relationship with your wife, but you don't have to have one with your son. I also say this from personal experience. Although my father was co-dependent and mom caused chaos for us growing up- Dad was the more reliable and consistent parent. He was the one we went to if we wanted any chance of a reasonable discussion. Over time, we had a better relationship with dad than with mom. She may not have liked it, but it was the way it was.

In a few short years, your kid is going to leave home. He may not have a choice now about relating to his parents,  but he sure will then. This, to me, is an opportunity for him to see you as you are. This doesn't need to be about your wife. This is you and your son.

[Grey Kitty]

One thought here. Your kid is pretty bright. He knows that you and his mom have conflicts.

He knows that he can get out of doing stuff you want by involving his mom on his side.

Can you blame him for doing it if it works?

I think it is time for you to work on clear boundaries and values here--when/where do you let your wife overrule you with the kid, and how important is it to instil a work ethic in him, or teach him that this kind of manipulation isn't cool. (I know you cannot stop your wife from interfering if he goes to her about it.

In other words... .think about the situation and pick your battles.

[formflier]

 

Yep... .I'll make another post later tonight.

Today I did it completely "his way"... .and he blew it... then tried to JADE... .bs his way out of it.

We did a fun thing... .went to national park... .I gave him 2 hour notice of when to leave and what needed to be done before then.

His only special project was to get the food packed to take... .his responsibility... nobody else.

I pointed out the things to pack... and backed away... .didn't remind him... .pester... .he "guaranteed" me that with this method  responsible s14 shows up... no "bs"ing.

Well... he packed a little bit of food it was gone quickly... .1 daughter hadn't eaten anything and was asking for food... .I told her to ask s14... he is in charge of food. 

He was avoidant... .laughing... laughing at her for being hungry.

When I asked him why he didn't pack it... .his answer was "nobody told me to put it in the van" (which is technically true).

I told him to pack the stew in something it wouldn't spill and to make sure we had plastic forks and spoons to eat it at the park.  (but... never told him to put it in the van).

So... this is all happening in van... .everyone is listening... so... .I have to set the example.

I asked him to come sit by me... .and asked if he really was going to go there... .because he was right... I didn't tell him to put it in van... .but asked him why the plastic spoons.?

Well... .he looks sheepish... .disappointed... .and just says I forgot it.

I said something about owning up to things being easier... .and it was over.

I stopped at McDs... .got daughter some food... got some for him as well... gave him pat on back... and it was over.

I'll do one more follow up tonight... a gentle private one... .

But yeah... .I think I need to be more direct with him... .and raise clear expectations...

FF